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Ben
Ben
12:07 AM
That storm hit, was torrential rain, causing power trips, the shop downstairs got flooded, trees fell, a lightning bolt hit just across the road, then was over in 20 mins
 
trogdor
trogdor
I wish our storms were all over in 20 minutes
 
Ben
Ben
Welcome to queensland
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
hey there @trogdor
 
trogdor
trogdor
Hello
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
yanno, I'm actually hoping we'll get some time for early-in-the-game party congealment RP :) considering how much backstory seems to be floating around between us
 
trogdor
trogdor
12:24 AM
I would not be against that
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
1:08 AM
@trogdor this also has me researching tooling for character modeling, because dangit, Korv, now I kinda want to make a pic of my char but I'm nowhere nearly good enough to draw it yet
 
trogdor
trogdor
I only ever drew one of my characters
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
yeah, I've tried drawing a character of mine once, but it didn't come out to anything useful
I'm still at the still-life stage of things
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
1:38 AM
I'm quite fond of HeroMachine. V2 is easy to use, but only has the fixed pose. V3 is much more powerful but also more complicated... I haven't gotten the hang of it.
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@Adeptus yeah, HM is a) Flash based (which limits its usefulness) and b) annoyingly cartoonish for some of the things I want to do
hey there @nitsua60
 
 
2 hours later…
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
3:17 AM
@Shalvenay search on line for tabaxi ... and see what you find.
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@KorvinStarmast yeah, will try that
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
I wish I could still free hand sketch as I used to do ... but as I got older the hands betray me. :(
My figs painting is awful now. :(
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
darn :/
so @KorvinStarmast -- yeah, the El Faro was quite a long and comprehensive investigation and report (I read the whole thing). did you catch the other report link I sent you btw? (that'd be the Saputi's not-quite-a-wreck, aka the un-Titanic)
@KorvinStarmast and yeah, comin' up with nothin' satisfactory :/
 
 
1 hour later…
Adeptus
Adeptus
4:43 AM
@KorvinStarmast My eyesight is more of a problem. I bought a magnifying visor with lights, so I can see the fine details well enough...
Was I talking to someone here about dog-riding halfling miniatures? Ral Partha Europe has 15mm fantasy figures as well as 28mm. I asked them if their 15mm human/elf riders would fit on a 28mm dog. They didn't know, so gave it a try... and it works pretty well. Good fit on a 28mm great dane or boar
(next to 28mm figure for comparison)
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@Adeptus hins on pigs :D
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
I was working on a 3.5 halfling paladin/ranger build, where the riding dog counts as both Special Mount and Animal Companion. But I doubt I'll get to play it now - my group is moving on to 5e (after a detour into old-school Tunnels & Trolls).
 
 
3 hours later…
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
7:52 AM
 
Bellerophon
Bellerophon
Does anyone know if in DnD 5e you roll for damage once per target or just once overall to determine hail of thorns damage?
 
Miniman
Miniman
@Bellerophon Just once - there's a general rule about it in the spellcasting chapter.
 
 
2 hours later…
Ben
Ben
9:43 AM
@doppelgreener Accurate
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
.... that helmet needs more air holes though, come to think of it
There was a battle fought in 1415, the Battle of Agincourt, where the defeated side suffered colossal casualties. By sheer numbers France should've won and crushed the English soldiers, but they lost nearly ten thousand men, and by all counts more than ten times the number of soldiers the English lost.
Many of them specifically simply exhausted themselves trudging through the mud in their plate armor, and reports were that many of them even suffocated in their armor -- enough air couldn't get through for their exertion.
So... Helmet. Airholes. Many. Very important.
 
Ben
Ben
@doppelgreener Yes. This
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
(The Battle of Agincourt was such a phenomenal, overwhelming victory for the English that it is credited as turning the tide of the entire Hundred Years War in their favour)
 
Ben
Ben
Got a tank army charging at you? Find the wekness and exploit it
Which was the point of these questions
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
10:12 AM
Yeah. :D
In that case they were on either end of a muddy field, and the horses went and churned up the mud further.
 
kviiri
kviiri
10:42 AM
@doppelgreener The French scored a pretty impressive KDR in the final major battle of the HYW at Castillon (wikipedia), too. I was a bit dismayed when I discovered this - the Age of Empires II scenario based on Castillon is not among the easiest ones...
(and the player's side is the French)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@kviiri that is impressive, jeez
 
kviiri
kviiri
The HYW was a rather senseless waste, but the alt-historical implications of the English winning are interesting. England-France would be a rather powerful empire in the early modern era.
 
 
1 hour later…
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
12:08 PM
@Shalvenay did not get to saputi yet
@Adeptus I have been tempted to do that for a few years, the magnifying light, might do that ...
 
 
2 hours later…
SPavel
SPavel
2:34 PM
My favorite #DnD creatures are the owlbear, the displacer beast, and the updog.
Tweeted by DungeonFacts on February 20, 2018 at 1:05 PM
 
dot_Sp0T
dot_Sp0T
@SPavel classy
 
NautArch
NautArch
2:56 PM
 
SPavel
SPavel
@NautArch Moral quicksand is my favourite dungeon hazard
PCs don't realize they have encountered it, and there is no saving throw
 
NautArch
NautArch
@SPavel and the deeper you go, the harder it is to escape
 
SPavel
SPavel
@NautArch Typically the PCs never realize, or if they do, they are far enough past the moral event horizon that if they become even more evil, they get phat bonuses
 
Magician
Magician
3:18 PM
@NautArch The irony of declaring a whole species as unworthy of empathy in an article against "mind-controlling Nazis" aside, it misses the point of both worldbuilding and storytelling. Knowing how ilithids view themselves is useful if you're going to portray them and their plots. Learning the villain's side of the story doesn't mean the players will agree with them.
 
SPavel
SPavel
@Magician In my experience, PCs are suckers for "we were wrongly accused and attacked etc etc" stories
Who doesn't like to help an underdog, especially when the other party is also evil, and the rewards are great?
 
Magician
Magician
There's "we were wrongly accused", and then there's "we enslave civilizations and eat people's brains, and have no intention of stopping"
 
SPavel
SPavel
@Magician Yeah but they're not doing it in front of the PCs right now
Unless they found the Elder Brain's diary where it outlines exactly that plan
And even then
 
Magician
Magician
@SPavel We're talking about ilithids here, they probably are. That's all they do.
 
SPavel
SPavel
@Magician Now now, they also have exquisite taste in ivory crafts
And by ivory, I mean the dessicated skulls of their victims
But what PC would give up a chance to have their very own Skull Throne?
 
NautArch
NautArch
3:22 PM
I think it's less 'wrongly accused' and more "we are being wiped out, if we don't fight back, we will be lost as a species"
 
Magician
Magician
I haven't read any of 5e, but I'd be surprised if at any point the books tried to say the ilithid empire wasn't thaaaat bad, had trains running on time or what have you.
 
SPavel
SPavel
Ethergaunts are a better antagonist race anyway
Threw off the yoke of the gods, spend their time chilling in the Ethereal Plane doing science and being logical and not eating brains
 
Magician
Magician
@NautArch I've not had players who wouldn't go "yes, good" at that point. Now, if you had veganlithids who claimed to only eat soy brains and not enslave anyone much at all really, that'd be an interesting conundrum for the players.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Magician I don't think it's about "they weren't bad", it more about total destruction of a species and normally that's something that storytelling tries to stop?
 
SPavel
SPavel
The interesting thing is that the Elder Brains are to illithids what illithids are to humans
 
Magician
Magician
3:25 PM
@NautArch Not if the species is abhorently evil. No one's shedding tears over parasites going extinct.
 
NautArch
NautArch
But yeah, I don't see it as a problem. No one cried, "that poor Virus!" when smallpox was eliminated
 
SPavel
SPavel
That's the fun part, not soy brains - what would the race be like if they didn't have immortal vats driving them to fatten themselves up on grey matter?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
I think illithids 1.0 are already conundrum enough. I feel like it doesn't take much to get from "species has telepathy + telekinesis" to "species without those are animals" (as a reasonable illithid POV). And plenty of us eat animals....
 
SPavel
SPavel
I could see a fun campaign where the PCs led a mind flayer proletarian revolution and overthrew their elder brain masters
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 that's a very good point. And slavery was A-OK for a lot of human civilizations.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
3:27 PM
I've always assumed that an illithid observing how we physically contact each other all the time views us about the same as I do stags rutting in the forest.
 
SPavel
SPavel
@nitsua60 illithids literally drip slime from their mouths 24/7
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
So do I--I just swallow more often. I don't have the anatomy to keep the drippage free of my garments like they do. (They can hold their tentacles out from their robes, right?)
 
SPavel
SPavel
@nitsua60 You have lips. Illithids don't.
They have beaks, and their beaks drip goo all day, and there's not much they can do about it
 
Magician
Magician
Considering they don't actually eat the brains, AFAIR, I don't see why they'd have saliva. Psychic energy doesn't need moistening.
 
SPavel
SPavel
They do eat brains
They eat the brain and then vomit their saliva into the empty cavity to make voidminds
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
3:30 PM
@SPavel I'm not sure I'm following your point? Are you saying that because they drip slime they can't think of non-sentient creatures (i.e. those without tele-*) as animals?
 
Magician
Magician
@SPavel Hmmm. That might be 5e thing, cool.
 
SPavel
SPavel
@nitsua60 My point is that they don't have a high ground when it comes to being gross
@Magician No idea, my 5e knowledge is spotty, in 3e they ate brains
 
Magician
Magician
...I'm too lazy to pull out Lords of Madness to check, so I'll take your word for it.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@SPavel Are you serious or just joking around? I may have lost a cue somewhere?
 
SPavel
SPavel
What if a Good Mind Flayer ran a terminal care hospice
Eat the brains of the dying elderly, they should be delicious from all those age bonuses to mental scores
Sell a Miraculous Brain Tonic that is advertised to boost intelligence (in reality: makes the brains tastier when consumed over time)
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
3:42 PM
@SPavel How does Alzheimer's or dementia affect your mental score?
🤔
 
SPavel
SPavel
@Yuuki No stats for Alzheimer's
Ergo, it doesn't!
nyam nyam nyam
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Yuuki pretty easy to fix. It's just a disease.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
I'm a little lot uncomfortable with this line ^^. Mind taking it to the Not A Bar?
(Remember that not all cultures view (a) euthenasia and (b) declining mental faculties in the same lights.)
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
so much trouble keeping this damned thread op. high all
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 I'm sorry, I was applying Alzheimers to 5e. It was not supposed to be offensive, but that disease in 5e is easily resolved.
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
3:52 PM
@NautArch no worries--I don't think you need to apologize, but I also think if it were to go further I wouldn't really want someone stumbling into it.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@nitsua60 Fair enough and agreed. But taking that leap from a discussion of stats is a big one :)
 
eimyr
eimyr
hiya!
 
GreySage
GreySage
My early morning surprise: Bronze dnd-5e badge
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
oooh
 
NautArch
NautArch
@GreySage mazel tov!
 
NautArch
NautArch
4:36 PM
did some meta searching, but failed to find if a specific question that is a subset of a general question already existing would qualify as a Duplicate. Does anyone know? Thinking specifically about this general vs a specific example
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
I think that the specific example you sited wouldn't be a duplicate.
however, I agree that the category of a specific question already being answered by a broad question would be "duplicate".
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 then why wouldn't that be a dupe? Because of the fire damage edge case?
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
I could see an argument either way, but I'd say it's different because of the fire yea
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
5:02 PM
I linked the general case, but didn't tag the specific one as a duplicate for basically that reason.
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
9
Q: If an answer to question A can be found in question B, should we close A as duplicate of B?

enkryptorSituation — there are two different questions Aq and Bq. Question Aq has a specific answer Aa. Question Bq has a good detailed answer, which includes points Aa, Ba and Ca. Should Aq be closed as a duplicate of Bq? Or does "duplicate" imply that Bq has to be a duplicate of Aq as well?

discussion closing-questions duplicates duplicate-answers
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Rubiksmoose that's not quite the same thing. I'm not looking at duplicate answers of different questions.
it's more Question A is a subset of Question B. If Question B is answered, is Question A necessary?
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@NautArch the answer to the question outlines very well the reasons we consider something a duplicate (including a mention of subset cases)
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Rubiksmoose Given that answer, i'm having a hard time thinking it's not a duplicate. The fire damage is different, but it's still the monster weapon as a PC weapon. ANd that's been answered.
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@NautArch I don't think they are duplicates.
The general question is about attack bonuses and to hit bonuses, not bonus damage for one thing.
 
NautArch
NautArch
5:07 PM
@Rubiksmoose that's fair enough reason
although the answers (and the body of the question )DO include damage
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@NautArch but answers are absolutely irrelevant when considering duplicates
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Rubiksmoose True, so I guess because the question didn't ask about damage bonuses (but the body does), it's not a dupe?
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@NautArch well the title and the body are both part of the question so they are both considered of course.
This is my logic of course, and I might be incorrect.
But just focusing on the damage part of the question, it is specifically talking about the xdx +6 part of the damage. The specific question is asking about bonus elemental damage that is not part of that unit and asking if it is a weapon property or not.
I see that as being different enough. Plus, not even the accepted answer deals with the topic of that kind of bonus damage.
 
NautArch
NautArch
fair enough - i guess the elemental damage moves it into non-dupe territory.
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
IMO at least it does
0
Q: Casting mislead while in the ethereal plane

EarthlingIf mislead is cast while the spellcaster is in the Border Ethereal (from the etherealness spell), is the illusory copy created in the ethereal plane? If yes, then would it remain there also after the caster have interrupted its etherealness and so he would still be able to perceive using the sens...

dnd-5e spells illusion
@NautArch Now look at this one
 
GreySage
GreySage
5:18 PM
@Rubiksmoose Looks fine to me, they are different, if very similar, spells.
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@GreySage Agreed. Though it seems that not everybody does.
btw @NautArch how are you feeling? last time we talked you were sick I think.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Rubiksmoose still sick, but getting better
still not really eating, though.
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
5:33 PM
@NautArch well sad to hear that you are still sick, but getting better is better than the alternative I guess.
@NautArch :-(
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Rubiksmoose yeah, i've been on a steady diet of bread and butter and broth mostly.
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@NautArch oh dear :-( well I hope your recovery is quick at least and as painless as possible.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Rubiksmoose I'm guessing another week of this - but at least i'm back at work.
 
SPavel
SPavel
@NautArch Back at work while still sick?
Careful not to infect the office (unless that is your plan - while everyone is away you grab project lead on the lucrative accounts)
 
NautArch
NautArch
@SPavel definitely not my plan. I'd screw things up if folks got it, but my hope is that one week into the illness that i'm no longer contagious.
and i've got a major person leaving the company that i have to try and find a replacement for.
can't just stay home :(
 
SPavel
SPavel
5:43 PM
@NautArch You're HR?
 
NautArch
NautArch
@SPavel small business owner. I'm a lot of everything :)
 
SPavel
SPavel
@NautArch what sort of business are you small in?
 
NautArch
NautArch
 
SPavel
SPavel
@NautArch So you are small because you are good at compression?
 
Rubiksmoose
Rubiksmoose
@NautArch sounds like a high pressure job
 
NautArch
NautArch
5:51 PM
@Rubiksmoose it's tight
 
SPavel
SPavel
Also if it's not ironic that someone in the medical field is working sick, it's at least irony-adjacent
Like bronzy or maybe tinny
 
KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
6:05 PM
@Magician Volos Guide to Monsters has an extensive treatment of the Illithids (which I have not memorized) but I don't recall seeing their being portrayed as benevolent dictators ... and the gith certainly weren't happy with them ...
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
@KorvinStarmast regarding your edit on my post, I'm not sure that "Damage Per Round" is more clear than "Damage in a Round". As "per", to me, implies a sustained value, rather than a single burst.
 
NautArch
NautArch
6:23 PM
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
I also need to try to convince my question reopened :-|
 
SPavel
SPavel
@goodguy5 Which question?
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
2
Q: What is maximum single-target damage per round using Action Surge?

goodguy5What is the most effective way to use a level 20 character's (with two or more levels in fighter) Action Surge ability in order to maximize single target damage done in one round? As a baseline, let's use a level 20 Champion (20 Str, Great Weapon Fighting style, Greatsword) vs. a Death Knight (A...

dnd-5e optimization damage fighter
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
i think i'm going to die on the hill of judicial activism.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
oh hey there
dope fighter build
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
6:35 PM
ty. i liked your question. good to stretch those muscles in 5th.
i was honestly hoping to see some more activity on it, because i don't think i hit the top at all. (also, i was waiting for someone to say, "2nd level fighter/18th level Divine Soul")
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
heh
 
GreySage
GreySage
@noneuklid I'm working on a 2fighter/18wizard
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
you monster.
 
GreySage
GreySage
I mean, at 18 you can meteor swarm which already does 40d6 damage
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
I've been toying with that one myself.
I can't figure out anything that is worth casting at 8th level.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
6:40 PM
we all know 5th is basically "the warts of 3rd without the combat rules." let's pretend that there's at least some good martial build out there.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
maximized cone of cold I guess
 
GreySage
GreySage
@goodguy5 Yeah, it seems like it jumps from 12d6 to 40d6 from 8 to 9
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
40d6+5 +64+5
~.6*(145+69) =~128
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
but what if the caster was an elf with E-acc? or a halfling.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
that doesn't help with spells, iirc
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
6:43 PM
e-acc helps any attack roll other than strength or uh... con, which i don't think ever actually happens.
as long as you can get advantage, and i'm sure there's a way
halfling reduces miss chance for any attack by between 0.25% and 5% depending on ac
er 0.25% and 4.75%, sorry
tangentially related, my current favorite build is a horse-riding halfling rogue.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
because an ally is always within 5 feet of the enemy. love it
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 I think it's on hold because it's still pretty loose with being able to go Spellcasting or Melee/ranged attack for the answer.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
I was looking through the theurge arcane tradition for wizard, hoping there'd be some OP cleric shit I could do, but alas.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
@goodguy5 aside from that, you can always sneak attack when you're on a horse.
(well, with mounted combatant.) i forgot, it's an axe-wielding halfling.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
@NautArch, I don't see how that's loose. "do the most damage vs one thing" seems like a valid question. I've added a 2-level restriction to get action surge.
"single biggest melee attack" was a valid question, without specifying class.
 
NautArch
NautArch
6:51 PM
@goodguy5 Yes, but single biggest melee attack is separate from single biggest spell.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
@goodguy5 oh, the ambiguity? well -- i didn't mind it, but the target, conditions of the fight, and conditions of the character other than having 2 fighter levels are vague.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
Hrm. I've been trying to narrow it down more and more.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
like, does my "add 20d6 by pushing them off a ledge" bit work? does the silver-tongued skill check? if i roll for divine intervention as a cleric, does god punch him for me?
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
I was amused that darkwanderer suggested damage to self... I assume just eatinga bunch of purple worm venom
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
personally, i'd prefer if the question was ambiguous enough to allow for some odd answers, but i can see why it might be concerning for SE
 
NautArch
NautArch
6:55 PM
@noneuklid it's basically comparing the answer i linked to on highest single melee damage (with the removal of the paladin divine smite damage to replace with fighter for action surge) vs the most damaging spell for a single target
@noneuklid I would also probably remove the 'baseline'. It's not necessary and confuses the quesiton.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
I'm not sure if there can be an "accepted"-quality answer without having the fight conditions clearly lain out. In the single-attack model, it's easier to assume it's just "a punching bag on a flat plain (or plane)."
being able to manipulate the target in some capacity is going to play heavily into what you can do in one round.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid I thought your question was specifically highest damage total?
that's not manipulation of target.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
@NautArch if it's a fighter/rogue, can they surprise the target? because that's going to play heavily into how much damage they do.
 
The Oracle
The Oracle
0
Q: Can I used a bleeped-out-swear if that's the name of the article I'm referencing?

AlexI know there's a pretty strict policy on swear words on this site. I just wrote an answer referencing an article by The Angry Gm, the title of which is How to Build F$&%ing Awesome Encounters! I cited it pretty much exactly like that ^ in my answer. Is it okay to use a swear word like that given...

discussion
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid If it's their action surge, then probably not. Unless you're surging before you do your main action/attack.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
7:02 PM
@NautArch the question is for the round in total, not for specifically the action-surge portion. "Using action surge" is just to limit the build possibilities.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
It was less "to limit build possibilities" and more "that's the thought I had."
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid ahhh, i don't think that's clear (enough.) I had read it as damage from the Action Surge. Not total damage for the round. Is your question really "What's the maximum damage that can be dealt by a 20th level character with at least two levels of Fighter?"
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
that's a question for @goodguy5, but that's how it seems to parse.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 Is this what you're looking for? "What's the maximum damage in a single round that can be dealt by a 20th level character with at least two levels of Fighter?"
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
although, if someone can help me word a question, I'd love to ask what the highest damage with TTK>50 a 10th level character can survive without any external instantaneous healing is.
 
NautArch
NautArch
7:11 PM
@noneuklid ttk?
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
Time To Kill. Uh...
like, is there a build that could survive 50 damage per round without a cleric? how about 100?
 
NautArch
NautArch
huh?
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
for at least 50 rounds
 
NautArch
NautArch
um...50 rounds is ridiculously long. Most combats don't even last 10 rounds.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
that's the idea; it's basically 'how much damage could you take indefinitely', or 'how much damage is non-threatening'
 
NautArch
NautArch
7:15 PM
that's almost definitely going to be too broad for this site. There are too many variables.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
@NautArch
yes
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
I think I specified them all pretty well, but it makes the question ridiculously long and complex.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 was that yes to reformatting of your quesiton? If so, I can take a crack at cleaning up the question and body for you.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
i guess i'd have to say "assuming bludgeoning damage" or something like that.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
yes, it was
 
NautArch
NautArch
7:16 PM
@noneuklid much more than that. You have too many variables.
@goodguy5 okay, gimme a minute...
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
oooh, thank you!
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
What are a couple of the variables?
(this is, after all, why i'm asking for help with this question.)
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 i'm kinda stuck on reliable effects. I don't think you should include them if you're asking for single turn damage. Using round opens that up, but then it opens up opportunities for every other character class. And OA is just as 'reliable' as an Attack or something requiring a saving throw.
 
GreySage
GreySage
@goodguy5 Meteor Swarm + Upcast Cone of Cold cast by an Evoker using Overchannel and Empower Evocation does 196.7 damage (expected) to a Death Knight
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
I don't recall what empower evo does
 
GreySage
GreySage
7:19 PM
+ [Int mod] to evocation spells
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
damnit, now i have to get that damn archer another 8-22 damage.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid number of rounds, abilities/items to heal, fight setup, etc. Most importantly, even if you had a cleric, any 10th level character will die in after 50 rounds of damage.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
and I was trying to allow affects that tick on the enemies turn, while not allowing reaction attacks
why would an enemy allow an attack from someone that just did 100+ damage
 
GreySage
GreySage
Oh, and you also do that much damage to pretty much everything you can see
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 I would recommend removing anything that isn't dealt by the primary creature at time of attack to keep it clean.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
7:21 PM
wait, can you overchannel a 5th level spell that's in an 8th level slot?
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
i specified number of rounds, that instantaneous effects (including items) are forbidden. i can't think of any cases where the fight setup would matter since the incoming damage is simply assumed at some number.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
So, you think that damage that occurs "at the beginning/end of the affected creature's turn" should be off-limits?
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
and even 2nd or 3rd level characters can live for 50 rounds if the damage is low enough...
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 I would, just make it single turn damage.
@noneuklid you've got a 3rd level character with more than 50 HP? How'd that happen?
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
what about thief shennanigans?
 
NautArch
NautArch
7:24 PM
Assume barbarian with con 20. That's going to be a maximum of 51 HP if they rolled 12s for level 2 and 3.
 
GreySage
GreySage
@goodguy5 Now that a bunch of stuff was edited out of your question, you might want to add your Champion 20 as an answer (when it is reopened)
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
okies
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
yup. a human or tiefling could have even higher hp than that.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 advantage and effets that go off that I think are fine. easy to get that.
@noneuklid how?
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
feral tiefling gets +1 hp per level, humans qualify for a bonus feat at 1st level, including Tough or Inspiring Leader
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
7:27 PM
Human Barbarian with Toughness, I assume
12+7+7 + 5*3 = 41?
that's as high as I can get
unless you're rolling
 
SPavel
SPavel
Of course, if they see you rollin, they might try to catch you ridin dirty
so there are trade-offs
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
It's the Belt of the Massive Sponge. Gives +30 HP.
@SPavel Haters gonna hate.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
@naut
 
SPavel
SPavel
@Yuuki No, that's Taylor Swift
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
@NautArch I think rogues should consider their enemies surprised
rather than to have advantage
 
NautArch
NautArch
7:30 PM
@goodguy5 I guess if you're rolling then you'd get 57 max with a v. human Tough Barbarian. And odds are they're doing more than 1 point of damage per round. Just not a possible question.
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@SPavel Taylor Swift, Weird Al, same person.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 You can give them surprised, sure. Open up Assassinate and not just Sneak Attack. However - surprise is NOT easy to get. If you want to assume the reature is surprised, we can add that.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
Any damage calculation for 1 turn would use surprise stats, anyway
 
SPavel
SPavel
@Yuuki No that's Chamillionaire
Weird Al is riding nerdy
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@SPavel Melinda Gates, Chamillionaire, same person.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
7:32 PM
@NautArch that's at third level, with no gear and nothing particularly interesting in the build. also, a lot of the damage players care about is going to be fractional.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 added attack and surprise to the question.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
for example, at 3rd level a kobold will usually only be dealing about 0.35 damage per turn to a paladin or fighter.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
I had already edited it :-\
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid C'mon man :) 57 HP is the highest possible HP total for a 3rd level PC (assuming 20 Con as well.)
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
@NautArch it isn't, and we're talking about 10th level. ;p
 
SPavel
SPavel
7:34 PM
"By Crom! What arbalester goes into battle lacking a full quiver?" bellowed Conan. He hurled the empty stapler across the office contemptuously, felling a passing IT technician.
Tweeted by ConanSalaryman on February 9, 2018 at 9:00 PM
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid Well, we can't use fighter/paladin if you want that d12. So that immediately drops the HP by 6. Then they're dealing 1d4+2 per hit.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
right. but they're hitting only on a nat 20.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid we're shifting goalposts. You brought up a 3rd level character could survive 50 rounds. Are we going back to 10th level? And what are they fighitng? If you pick the lowest damage dealing creature, then yeah - it's going to be easier to find something works.
 
SPavel
SPavel
A 3rd level character could survive 50 rounds if he runs fast enough
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
hahah, yes.
 
SPavel
SPavel
7:37 PM
Or if he has 50 lower-level friends
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
@NautArch I don't know how I feel about the "assume advantage" caveat.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
So, my original question was about a 10th level character, about which I know very little, including the damage that is survivable per round.
You asserted no one at 10th level could possibly survive 50 rounds -- but we know that isn't true, since it can happen at a lower level if the damage is low enough.
The question is how much higher that damage can get -- does it get high enough to matter, or not?
 
NautArch
NautArch
this could be my first downvoted but selected answer.
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
Actually, just because a lower level character can survive 50 rounds against low-level monsters doesn't necessarily guarantee that a higher level character can survive 50 rounds with a high-level monster.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid I don't think that's true, though. You had said it's possible with a 3rd level character. If we choose the weakest possible enemy, and assume they miss a LOT, then yeah. i guess it's possible. But those are the variables that make it impossible. What type of enemy? How many? Can it die? etc. etc.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
7:39 PM
I like the thought that you're affecting the player, not the character
But I also think that it goes against the spirit of the ethereal
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 I still stand by that one even with the Etherealness spell :) But I don't get how this is confusing. The DMG says what can't happen on the Ethereal plan (attacks), and Portent is not an attack.
@goodguy5 Of the Ethereal Plane or against the spirit of Etherealness?
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
Against the game concept of the Ethereal Plane
It's for snooping and chillin, not for twisting the fate of your enemies
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
@NautArch None of those things matter to answer the actual question, though, since we're looking for the per-round damage that's survivable. It doesn't make sense to attribute it to an attack for the purposes of this question; it's consistent for every round. The example of a weak enemy is only to illustrate that even per-round damages of less than 1 are meaningful.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
also @NautArch I undid your change. I don't like it.
 
GreySage
GreySage
@NautArch I bet even a level 1 wizard could survive 50 rounds of fighting a tree
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
7:43 PM
@GreySage Not if they level up from it with a low natural Con.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 fair enough! It's your question :) Do you not want to assume advantage?
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
@GreySage you can't overchannel an upcast spell.
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/67811/if-a-spell-is-cast-using-a-higher-level-spell-slot-can-it-be-overchanneled
 
NautArch
NautArch
@GreySage I don't believe a Tree is a monster :)
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@GreySage I dunno, what if they cast Firebolt, the tree catches on fire, a branch falls off, smacks the wizard on the head (bludgeoning damage) and sets him on fire (recurring fire damage)?
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
and naut, no. I don't want to assume advantage
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
7:44 PM
@goodguy5 are conditions that give the character advantage permissible with explanation?
 
GreySage
GreySage
Whoa, thats a lot of tags
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
after all, my entire schtick is about getting advantage to offset the sharpshooter hit penalty.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
Otherwise, champion3/evo wizard + meteor storm and scorching ray
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 Okay, that's a legitimate requirement. You may want to explicitly add that so that people don't assume.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
yes, noneuklid
 
NautArch
NautArch
7:46 PM
@goodguy5 meteor storm only does 120 max. That's nowhere near this
 
GreySage
GreySage
@NautArch Meteor Swarm does 240 damage max, 140 expected (if the save fails)
@goodguy5 I forgot about scorching ray
 
NautArch
NautArch
@GreySage bah, missed the 2nd 20d6. That's still a max 240 vs 364. Still nowhere near.
although the problem is that build requires advantage.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
sorry, @NautArch. i had to upvote you because you're right. the conditions of etherealness the spell are obviously different than the general effects of being in the border ethereal. now it's back at null rather than negative.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid booooo :) but thanks!
 
GreySage
GreySage
@goodguy5 Scorching ray falls below Cone of Cold, even non-upcasted. Disintegrate is better than both, and I think Delayed Blast Fireball beats that (if you have the time to charge it up)
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
7:56 PM
overchanneled cone of cold is really good.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 did you want to add in the No Advantage? It makes a HUUUGE difference.
but by doing so, you effectively remove Rogue from the possibilities because that's how they get the majority of their damage.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
done
I think Surprise grants sneak attack, right?
 
NautArch
NautArch
@goodguy5 "unless you have a source for it" That's pretty vague. Are you saying you'd need to do something yourself to gain advantage (like Vengeance Paladin Vow of Enmity?"
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
yes
what should it say
 
NautArch
NautArch
I'd probably say something like "If you can generate advantage yourself somehow, then you may do so"
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
8:00 PM
"If a feat or ability available to you provides advantage," maybe. "somehow" still seems pretty vague.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
God, I hate English
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
"I can generate advantage by offering my DM pizza!"
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
works for me
8 attacks for fighter, 8 slices of pizza
coincidence? or advantage
 
GreySage
GreySage
Alright, if we can't upcast AND overchannel Cone of Cold, we have Metero Swarm + Delayed Blast Fireball (with 10 round of charging) for 184 expected damage (388 max)
 
NautArch
NautArch
"if you can generate advantage without a 3rd party, you may do so"
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
8:04 PM
@NautArch I'm on a horse.
 
GreySage
GreySage
If we don't have the 10 rounds, then we use Disintegrate instead of DBF, for 173 expected damage
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid I'm on a boat. So what? :D
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
Metro Swarm: Your target is hit by several subway cars in succession.
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
XD
 
GreySage
GreySage
All of that is save based, using no magic items, 3rd party help, or even class optimization.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
8:06 PM
@NautArch Mounted Combatant provides advantage on all melee attack rolls as long as your target is smaller than your mount. Is the horse 3rd party?
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid confused...are we talking about the 50 rounds or about @goodguy5's question?
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
the latter.
you helped clarify the 50 rounds thing a lot, but i'm still not sure how to put it into a subject line that won't confuse the hell out of everyone.
probably just 'more vague in title, clarified in body'
 
goodguy5
goodguy5
afk
 
NautArch
NautArch
@noneuklid I'm not entirely sure how you surprise someone on a horse :) But that aside, I think that'd work for his question.
 
noneuklid
noneuklid
the same way you can't cast a spell that targets a corpse and turns it into an undead until dispelled, but, hey, welcome to 5th ed.
 
SPavel
SPavel
8:16 PM
@NautArch You sneak up on them?
or my personal favourite - disguise yourself and say "I'm your long lost son" and they will be very surprised
 
NautArch
NautArch
@SPavel I would definitely be surprised if a horse asked me that.
@goodguy5 Would a familiar be okay for advantage? If so, then the original linked build for highest melee damage is back on by having the familiar help to get advantage.
 
SPavel
SPavel
@NautArch Really? I thought you'd know to expect treachery from a horse
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@SPavel In this room, the only animal I expect treachery from is a sheep.
Wait, does anyone else have an animal in their Gravatar? Does @trogdor count?
 
SPavel
SPavel
@Yuuki Naturally - 99% are wolves in sheep's clothing
@nitsua60 is in the 60th percentile, comfortably in wolf territory
 
GreySage
GreySage
9:10 PM
I really want that question to be reopened now, I have a new total (245 + some other stuff)
 
NautArch
NautArch
@GreySage Is it greater than the linked one I gave?
That's still over 300 :)
 
SPavel
SPavel
That's the problem with that kind of question
It's basically a list question - what are all the ways I can do X
 
GreySage
GreySage
@NautArch 245 expected with no items or consumables.
So yes it is greater
 
NautArch
NautArch
@GreySage as with that one. HOw is is greater?
And that's still on a single attack. Action Surge provides another attack to add more (just no sneak attack on the 2nd hit)
 
GreySage
GreySage
@NautArch The linked answer lists 222 as average damage without items. 245 > 222, so...
 
NautArch
NautArch
9:23 PM
@GreySage oh, i thought 245 was your max damage, not average.
yeah, 245 average > 222 average :) And it's less than that ecause no paladin divine smite. Takes 32 off that.
 
GreySage
GreySage
My Aasimar Shadow Magic Sorcerer would also reroll up to 10 1's, but I honestly have no idea how to calculate that
 
NautArch
NautArch
@GreySage but again, they get a 2nd attack. Which should generate all but sneak attack damage (which is very significant)
 
GreySage
GreySage
433 max damage, or 513 if you choose the spell knowing you will do max damage (all hits and crits, all saves failed)
 
NautArch
NautArch
@GreySage you're assuming you'll crit in your build?
or do you have a way to autocrit?
 
GreySage
GreySage
@NautArch Not in expected damage, but for max damage yeah
 
NautArch
NautArch
9:30 PM
@GreySage Hmm, that's a tough thing to sell. At least the max damage in the link is automatic autocrit.
 
GreySage
GreySage
@NautArch Well, if you're talking about max possible damage you're already assuming every roll is the highest it can be
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
 
trogdor
trogdor
9:47 PM
@Yuuki I have a little onion man and a dragon-angel guy
so kinda no
 
SPavel
SPavel
@trogdor is mayonnaise an animal?
 
trogdor
trogdor
no I would say not XD
not anymore anyway
 
SPavel
SPavel
 
trogdor
trogdor
hehe
 
Sora Tamashii
Sora Tamashii
No rickPat, instrument is not a mayonnaise...
 
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