TRPG General Chat

Ben

1:12 AM

Murnin all

Shalvenay

hey there @Ben

Ben

1:31 AM

o/

Hows it be

Shalvenay

alright here, as for you?

Ben

Could be better. An old medical issue has resurfaced so just dealing with that for the time being

Shalvenay

awww :/

Acts7Seven

DnD 5e confused about bonus actions. Is that determined by class, race, or level?

Does everyone get one every round?

Miniman

1:51 AM

@Acts7Seven You only get one if something gives you one, but everyone, no matter how many they have, can only take 1 per round.

Shalvenay

hey there @SoraTamashii @Acts7Seven and @SevenSidedDie

hey as well @Quentin

Miniman

So a Rogue who's dual-wielding has a bonus action that lets him attack with his second weapon, and a bonus action from Cunning Action that lets him do all kinds of stuff, but he has to pick one and use that.

Sora Tamashii

Hey, Sha. :)

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Sora Tamashii

Fine. Taking a break from Type-Moon Homebrewing to work on an old project.

You?

80d6 just arrived in the mail for me too, so there's that. lol

Shalvenay

1:58 AM

OK here. figuring out mail issues myself :P have to go pick up a package from the post office tomorrow, and hoping shipment 3/3 arrives tomorrow as well (right now ,it's rattling around KC for some bizarroland reason. note to self: don't have things FedEx'ed from TVF)

(shipment from Oregon arrived fine via USPS. shipment all the way from .de via DHL/USPS seems OK, but I'm not 100% sure as it took several days to cross the pond + is now getting held up at the destination end. shipment from TVF sent out on the same day as the shipment from Oregon? rattling around KC. gee, maybe I shouldn't relax so much about using FedEx Ground)

Sora Tamashii

Haha I just don't worry about it. If it arrives, great. If it doesn't, I contact the sender. :P

Hmm... curiosity is getting the better of me... will the system acknowledge it?

80d6

Should have figured as much. I think the cap is 9. lol

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii heheheh. weird story -- had a family member order in something the week before Christmas and shipped overnight

it doesn't actually make it into the house until the week after Christmas

why? because the FDX delivery driver stuck it on the trash can cart.

and we never noticed until I went to pull the cart back in the week after Christmas and found it

Sora Tamashii

Well, that's why I don't do overnight shipping. lol

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii I don't either. USPS is actually rather nice these days

Ender Look

Magic with range of "touch" can be self-casted? I mean, e.g: Can I self-cast me an "Mage Armor"? (D&D 5e)

Shalvenay

2:05 AM

although for heavier stuff, it tends to lose to flat-rated UPS/FDX ground boxen

@EnderLook yeah, that's the idea

Miniman

@EnderLook Yep.

Ender Look

Does Sorcerers has any healing spell?

Shalvenay

@EnderLook no...healing magic is associated with divine casting in the D&D model

(so, clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers. sometimes bards get it though, too)

Ender Look

Ok

Miniman

@EnderLook Except [facepalm] the Divine Soul Sorcerer they added recently in XGtE.

Ender Look

2:09 AM

@Miniman XGtE?

Miniman

@EnderLook Xanathar's Guide to Everything - a recent supplement that added a bunch of subclasses (and some other stuff).

Sora Tamashii

Am I back?

Shalvenay

@Miniman yeah -- that's a replacement for the Favored Soul concept of previous editions I reckon

Ender Look

@Miniman Ok, thanks

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii yup

(Favored Soul is to Cleric as Sorcerer is to Wizard btw)

Miniman

2:10 AM

@Shalvenay Ayup [facepalm].

Ender Look

It's me or "Dragon bloodline" is better than "Wild magic" in sorcerers? I haven't play a game yet but the guide says that Wild magic has negative effects, dragon bloodline not. Also, wild magic is "too random"

Sora Tamashii

Are we sure? My browser crashed when trying to answer Ender's question... let's see... Is it still going? Well, it hasn't crashed again yet... I should be good... maybe? Here's to hoping...

Shalvenay

@EnderLook it's a stylistic thing. Draconic Bloodline is only decent in what it gives you, but it's consistent

Wild Magic is for the riverboat gamblers of sorcery ;) some effects are awesome, some are terrible, and you never know 'til you roll the dice

Miniman

@EnderLook Also wild magic sorcerer has basically no AC, and it's entirely up to the DM how the class works and the PHB doesn't give the DM any guidance, and the draconic sorcerer gets actual features where the wild magic sorcerer gets stuff that just looks cool.

Sora Tamashii

Bird in the hand, Sha. Bird in the hand. :P

Shalvenay

2:13 AM

(I've seen what 11 consecutive wild magic rolls will do at a table. things got crazy)

(and it was our Warlock that set that cascade in motion, even)

Miniman

About the only objectively good thing the WM sorcerer gets is Tides of Chaos, and even that is up to the DM when it recharges, with no guidance for the DM as to how often that should be.

And just to top it off, the idea of the WM sorcerer is one that's incredibly appealing to players who've read a lot of fantasy, not to players who've played a lot of D&D, so it tends to attract newer players who don't understand that it's awful.

Shalvenay

@Miniman I'd say its only awful in a charopt/player-vs-DM sense. I could see it working well if the DM was vested in PC success, not PC failure, if you get my drift

Miniman

@Shalvenay Sure, but even then, it achieves none of the story ideas it's meant to.

Shalvenay

@Miniman you might have a point there

Miniman

People looking to play Questor Thews et al walk away completely disappointed.

Sora Tamashii

2:18 AM

Miniman, anything that can potentially give you your own theme song can't be completely bad.

Shalvenay

what do you think distorted it btw? premature balance concerns, or?

Miniman

@Shalvenay It's just an idea that doesn't work in D&D, honestly.

Shalvenay

anyway @EnderLook -- in terms of keeping things simple to understand, Draconic Bloodline is probably a better bet

Ender Look

@Shalvenay Ok

For a beginner player which class is easier: wizard or sorcerer?

Sora Tamashii

If you want good, Draconic Bloodline is better. As I said earlier, Bird in the Hand. If you want silly and fun, Wild Magic is hilarious, but expect to need support from others regularly.

Ender Look

2:20 AM

@SoraTamashii But Wild magic isn't really dangerous?, you can be turned into a plant or a sheep...

Sora Tamashii

I'd personally say wizard from what I've seen.

Shalvenay

I haven't played either -- but prepared casting in 5e IME is fairly simple to wrap one's head around, and probably a good thing to grasp early as the majority of other casters use the prepared casting mechanics

so yeah, Wizard would probably be the better bet to figure out at this point

hey there @ATaco

ATaco

@EnderLook I'd say Wizard, Personally.

o/

Shalvenay

@ATaco how're things going?

Ender Look

@SoraTamashii The guide recomend wizard or cleric, but in forums I read that a wizard is difficult because you have to know which spells you want to prepare

ATaco

2:23 AM

Not bad, excitedly waiting for next session as usual.

Cleric, Wizard and Druid all need to prepare their spells carefully. But with a high enough INT, that doesn't matter as much.

Shalvenay

@ATaco in a bit of a lull here due to folks still having to deal with holiday aftershocks

Sora Tamashii

That is why I said Draconic is better than Wild. Wild is fun, but... err... wild.

Miniman

@EnderLook The same is true of every spellcaster. The difference is that some of them have to know which spells they want to prepare for the rest of their lives.

Ender Look

@Miniman ok

Shalvenay

@Miniman yeah. prepared casters have a lot more tolerance for bad spell selections than spontaneous ones do

Sora Tamashii

2:25 AM

As for the thing on wizard vs sorcerer, that's a problem with any spellcaster. Just take your time and get information before you make your specific choices.

Miniman

If a cleric realises that his spell choices sucked yesterday, he can change them completely for free. If a sorcerer realises that their spell choices sucked yesterday, he can change 1 of them...the next time he levels up.

Sora Tamashii

This is why I DM, not play. I suck at making good decisions when playing games. I always go for what I think would be fun. lol

ATaco

The good thing about being a Wizard/Cleric/Druid rather than a Sorc or a Lock is that you can change them tomorrow. So grab a few offensive spells and some utilities that seem helpful for the dungeon or whatever you're in, and you'll be fine.

Miniman

It's like the difference between picking somewhere to stay for a weekend and buying a house.

2

Ender Look

Ok, thanks for the advices

Sora Tamashii

2:26 AM

I love miniman's analogy. Can we vote up chat posts? lol

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii that's what stars are for :)

Miniman

@SoraTamashii Thanks!

Sora Tamashii

It took me a second to realize those are even a thing, actually.

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii yeah, hi-opt stuff isn't particularly my specialty either. my problem is more that I don't really have the expected sort of cleverness about the use of spells and such

same with puzzles and whatnot -- I completely fubar'ed a one-shot Traveller dungeon run because I was looking for an electrical cable to cut to depower something instead of looking for a mechanical pendulum-cable to shimmy down

Sora Tamashii

I would be the type who uses goodberry then prestidigitation it to make it taste like medium A-5 wagu beef.

Shalvenay

2:32 AM

@SoraTamashii hahaha. thankfully, prestidigitation/druidcraft/thaumaturgy are cantrips in 5e :)

Sora Tamashii

I know, right? XD

ATaco

I just Grabbed Magic Initiate as a feat. So my Barbarian can now do Druidcraft.

Sora Tamashii

And good berry is a L1, if I recall, so I won't lose much doing that.

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii yeah, I suppose you could use that combo to say, convince a weretiger to eat a goodberry :)

Sora Tamashii

I'd use that combo to bribe just about any hungry animal to be my friend. lol

ATaco

2:35 AM

Shame that Druid doesn't get Prestid.

Shalvenay

@ATaco heh, they get Druidcraft instead

Sora Tamashii

ATaco, multiclass. (It's been a while since I've DM'd, so I am a little foggy on some limitations, but I recall there being a way to get both.)

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii yeah, dip wizard or sorc I believe, or bard for that matter

Sora Tamashii

Every party should have a Bard. lol

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii it'll be interesting to see what party composition I get for my campaign-let

Ben

2:47 AM

Question: If a Player creates an animal companion, after the likeness of their IRL pet, is it the fault of the PC, or the DM if it dies (regardless of the circumstance)?

BESW

@PeterCooperJr. Fred Hicks (one of the motivating forces behind Evil Hat Productions, the guys who do Fate stuff) made these character sheets for his kids, with this worldbuilding document.

Ben

@Miniman I would say renting, at least lol

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

Ender Look

Is allowed use custom stats for a character? The guide teach how to make a character using dices or the standard points (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) but I found a page where say you can choose your own points (with some rules) using this calculator

Shalvenay

@EnderLook that's on a per-DM/per-campaign basis. point buy is something I and most of the DMs around here I know are generally cool with, but isn't allowed everywhere. (not everyone rolls for stats the same way, either)

Sora Tamashii

2:50 AM

Ben, it is the fault of the player for modeling it specifically after a real animal instead of making what is most efficient for the situation. Can't fault the DM for the player's actions. (I may be biased here.)

BESW

I started out an avid roll-the-dice-for-stats GM, but by the time I left systems where it mattered I was a staunch supporter of standard arrays.

Ben

That uses what is referred to as the "point buy system". Everyone chooses which stats they want to increase the most, at the cost of decreasing others. It is far more controlled way of building a character.

BESW

There was a point buy phase somewhere in the middle.

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii then again, depending on the pet at hand and the level of the campaign, it may be a perfectly cromulent animal companion

@Ben what sort of pet was it anyway?

Ben

The choice to roll dice instead can be a lot more explosive. resulting in stats anywhere between 3 an 18

Sora Tamashii

2:53 AM

True, Sha, but that's the thing, it's still the player's judgment, not the DM's fault. The player chose that layout.

Ben

@Shalvenay Oh this was just a random thought. Was just playing with my puppy (he's 11 years old haha) and thought about all the times I've named my pets in video games after him. If I did that in an RPG however... I'm thinking I would not enjoy it if the companion died

BESW

I think if you're arguing about whose fault it was, there's a bigger problem with the game than a dead animal companion.

Miniman

@Ben Or how you murder him every time he picks up Artorias's sword?

Ben

So for example, if I had a Dire wolf, and I named it after my dog. That would work, but if the companion died, it'd likely be on par with my dog dying IRL

Shalvenay

ah

Sora Tamashii

2:54 AM

When you see the same owl die a dozen times in a campaign... you have to question the owner. (Technically a familiar shaped like an owl, but still...)

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii yeah, I'm very sincerely hoping that I can send my Druid's current companion off to retire with some villagers or the likes :)

BESW

The mantra don't roll the dice unless you're okay with any outcome they might provide can be expanded to don't add things to games where your attachment to them means the dice mantra could prevent rolling dice entirely unless the table's okay with that.

Ben

@Miniman This is a very real and legitimate situation that I take into account with any canine companion

Sora Tamashii

That's a long mantra. Doesn't roll off the tongue very well either.

Ben

@BESW The dice don't care

Miniman

2:56 AM

@BESW On a related subject, can you find where you talked about why Wild Magic isn't a concept that really works in D&D? My search-fu is totally failing me.

nitsua60

@ATaco Is this the Gummy-bearian?

BESW

@Miniman Hrmm. Got any idea how long ago, or in what context?

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hiya

BESW

...or who else was in the conversation?

Ben

@Miniman You might be using a different keyword? That happens to me all the time...

Sora Tamashii

2:59 AM

Miniman, it should be obvious. It's uncompetitive. Let me make an analogy: it's like SwagPlay in Pokemon. It makes it all about RNG and not about skill. It's fun at first because it's random, but it gets boring in time because control is a vague concept by that point.

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going?

Sora Tamashii

Basically, it makes the encounters less about what you can do and more about what the dice decide. You may as well watch a simulation play out in that case.

Miniman

@BESW Not sure. From memory, someone fairly new was asking about D&D 5e's wild magic sorcerer, and others were criticizing it (not unlike the conversation that just happened), but you explained it in terms of interesting/uninteresting randomness and randomness in narrative.

Ben

@Sora on a sidenote, I notice you've been referring to specific people a lot, but as far as I can tell you aren't actually pinging them. If you type there name, prefixed with the "@" symbol, that will ping them.

Miniman

@SoraTamashii Oh, it's obvious to me too. But I don't do so well at explaining why.

Sora Tamashii

3:01 AM

Sorry, @Ben, I'm not much of an @-er. lol

Ben

@SoraTamashii Additionally, if you hit the little ">" arrow that will ping a particular message too

BESW

So, post-5e. That helps a little.

Ben

No worries :) Just thought I'd mention it to make things a little smoother for you

Sora Tamashii

I usually @ if I am referring to a really old message.

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii yeah, learning to use the reply button is better for that case because it gives more context

Sora Tamashii

3:03 AM

True, but I'm lazy lol

My reluctance to deal with character creation is proof of that.

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii heheheh. and DMing is lazy how? :P

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Good. Really fun session tonight.

Sora Tamashii

...touche...

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 cool to hear :) still haven't heard any takers for the guinea-pig oldbie/grognard though :) understandable that Korvin's schedule might be in the way, and I dunno about SSD -- not sure how to get him to take his mod hat off and put a player hat on :)

Miniman

@BESW Don't worry about it if it's not an easy find - I just remembered it as saying a lot of the stuff I was trying to express, and was hoping to link it.

BESW

3:09 AM

...is it possible that my explanation included an invocation of His Dark Materials as a cautionary tale?

Miniman

@BESW Certainly possible, and it gives me a new search term to try XD

Shalvenay

groans don't you just hate it when you have a game going and then nobody seems interested in picking it up after the holidays? :/

BESW

→ 1 message moved to Trash

→ 3 messages moved to Trash

Sora Tamashii

That was fair. Also, Sha, been there, done that. I just ask people when they think they'd like to resume. Sometimes, you end up with a dropped campaign. It sucks, but it happens.

BESW

@Miniman I'm finding a lot of distaste for 5e's wild magic, but the closest I come to offering insightful commentary so far is criticizing the grammar and syntax of the table.

Ben

3:24 AM

I had a discussion about it recently, which was going in that direction, but then they realised that they were actually meant to surge, instead of avoiding it.

The main problem people have with it is the sheer lack of control over the surge's outcome

BESW

...ran into an old conversation about how random encounters during camping are anathema to pacing.

Miniman

@BESW I do tend to attribute "smart stuff I heard in this chat" to you. It's also possible I'm just flat-out misremembering.

BESW

Heheh.

Miniman

Or even remembering a conversation on a different topic that touched on a lot of the same themes.

Sora Tamashii

BESW, that's why a good DM doesn't make the encounters random. They make the encounters a result of the players' actions and inaction.

Miniman

3:29 AM

Anyway, thanks for looking.

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii yeah -- glad I asked actually -- as it means two of the three games I was in before the holidays may not be resuming for a while, based on the answer I got

BESW

@SoraTamashii I think it's dangerous to make specific playstyles necessary for the "good GM" appellation.

Shalvenay

(the third is in an "I dunno" state as I want someone to tag in for a PC whose player can no longer apparently find time to play)

BESW

And, well, D&D disagrees with you whole-heartedly. I learned GMing in a system that gave me a whole chapter of random encounter tables and various suggestions for how to implement them which barely considered taking PC action into account.

Shalvenay

(and then there's Nits' ToA game -- which isn't going to start up for another month)

Sora Tamashii

3:32 AM

Well, I was specifically referring to random events. DM-ing is about storytelling, ultimately. The beats in story telling should be "but" and "therefore". If your story has "and then" as one of the beats, it's inherently flawed in that section. Random events are all about "and then"s.

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii that's where you diverge though. DMing can be about exposing a world to the players, not a story

Miniman

@SoraTamashii As BESW said, you're stating that there's a specific "right" way to DM.

Even the statement "DM-ing is about storytelling" is one that a lot of people are going to disagree with.

Shalvenay

and when doing that, events that are not direct results of player actions and inactions are essential to provide the players with a sense that the world is not centered on them

BESW

@SoraTamashii That's a playstyle choice, and one I like. But there are many popular playstyle paradigms which would consider that approach to be artificial and trite. Groups which aim for "realism" often feel that randomness and actively not looking for story beats or following narrative conventions like avoiding "and then" will produce a more believable experience.

Sora Tamashii

True, I will nod to that point, Sha. But even then, events in the world (i.e. the real world) are never about "and then"s, unless you've been in a lull for so long.

Shalvenay

3:34 AM

@SoraTamashii the 'and thens" represent outside machinery. somebody else's "buts" and "therefores"

Miniman

@SoraTamashii It was 40 degrees yesterday, and then it rained.

BESW

And as I said, D&D 3.5 in particular assumes that "random is realistic and therefore desirable" is the default playstyle.

Shalvenay

it's a Monte Carlo model of a large pile of events happening offstage

Sora Tamashii

Life happens as buts and therefores. Not always yours, but there is a reason from other people's buts and therefores. A truly random event doesn't just happen. Things lead to it.

Ben

@Miniman That's not funny

BESW

3:35 AM

I strongly disagree with D&D 3.5's GMing advice in almost every respect, but I'd hesitate to say that anyone's playing wrong so long as all involved in their game are safe and happy.

Miniman

@Ben It wasn't a joke.

Sora Tamashii

Miniman, that is way too hot...

Ben

"Welcome to the tropics" they said.

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii right, however, we can't exactly model the "buts" and "therefores" of an entire world's worth of people, so we need to approximate them

Sora Tamashii

Fair enough.

BESW

3:36 AM

Eclipse Phase's entire character generation system is predicated on giving you a bunch of "and thens" and expecting you to thread them together yourself.

Miniman

@SoraTamashii Yeah, which made the rain a pretty significant event in my life!

BESW

...deadEarth ignores the second part.

Ben

I think this conversation in itself describes what DMing is like.

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii -- there's also the issue of scale

and this is something that we don't touch on much here, because we're usually dealing with single-table-sized gaming groups

Ben

@Miniman I live in North Queensland, and when it hasn't been raining, the humidity has been anywhere between 50 and 90%

Sora Tamashii

3:40 AM

Personally, I'd love to try a large-scale DM-ing situation with 50+ players all in different areas of the created world. Would it be time consuming? Definitely. Would it be tedious? Probably. But would it be worth it? Like herding cats. :3

Ben

On top of that, the temp has been on average 35 degrees DX

Shalvenay

@SoraTamashii I've seen bigger outside the conventional pen-and-paper world. it's beyond "herding cats"

beyond a certain point, you actually have to start relying on the system to enforce things that would otherwise be social norms, or start altering social norms of roleplaying to fit the conventions of surrounding systems

Sora Tamashii

a few days ago, it was -27 or so here. right now its 0.

Sha, that sounds fun. :3

Anymeow, I'm going to do some homebrewing.

Shalvenay

hey there @Asteria

nitsua60

67

A: OD&D said it could be played with 20-50 players and one referee. How was that expected to work and still be fun?

A "campaign" isn't what it used to be... Early campaigns often had multiple groups running within the same campaign. That is, the group of {Alice, Bob, Charlene, Dave, Edith, Francis, Ginny, Hal, Iris, and Jake} and the group of {Adam, Betty, Chip, Delilah, Edwin, Frances, Garth, Harriet, Isaac,...

Asteria

3:47 AM

hay hay @Shalvenay

Shalvenay

@Asteria how're things going?

Asteria

@Shalvenay so slow that my whole work team is listening to tacky music. whats up with chu

Shalvenay

@Asteria wow, that is slow. not much here, mind if we chat on Discord some? :)

Ben

MMMBop (Acoustic) by Hanson - Greatest Hits 2016

►

BESW

@Miniman Maybe you're remembering this conversation about the Deck of Many Things?

Asteria

3:49 AM

@Shalvenay yeah, I don't mind

Ender Look

How much time is the duration of an average session? I found one in internet that has a duration of 4-5 hours, is that normal?

Shalvenay

@EnderLook it varies depending on how your table is scheduled and what they're playing.

4 hours is the length of a "standard" convention session slot though, so that's a common number to shoot for.

Ben

@EnderLook You should aim for around 4 hours I feel.

BESW

My games used to last four to six hours, now they're more like one to four.

Shalvenay

I've had shorter sessions to wrap up things or to move something along in a limited time slot, and longer ones if time permits

BESW

3:52 AM

And the shorter sessions feel at least as satisfying and complete, in large part because we're playing with systems that don't take as much time to tell the same amount of story satisfyingly.

nitsua60

@EnderLook I tend to play 3-3.5 with my adult groups. A 2-hour session can be fun, but it's a bit much to arrange schedules and travel &c. "just" for a 2-hour session. With my kids I'm often playing 30-60 minute sessions.

Ben

I was reminded how old I am the other day. A conversation led me to bring up "Watership Down" (the movie) and the only other person who knew what I was referring to was 5 years older than me

nitsua60

@Ben So you're, what, -5 years old?

=)

BESW

Last Saturday we played Honey Heist for... maybe an hour? Hour and a half, tops. Told a short but complete story.

Ender Look

This is impresive, I am not sure if I would be able to not get bored in 4 hours... or not be called by my familly

Ben

3:54 AM

@nitsua60 Are you saying that infants know this movie? Lol

BESW

@EnderLook Breaks are good. But, well. Have you ever watched two movies in a row? Or played a video game or read a book for a whole evening?

And it's so much easier to pass the time with friends telling a story than passively consuming a story on your own.

Asteria

@Ben thats the weird, creepy rabbit movie yeah? I know a 6 year old that adores that movie

nitsua60

@Ben I'm saying, like Jeremiah the prophet, that before you were in your mother's womb your Lord called you by name. To see if you wanted to watch Watership Down. (With my sincere apologies to the majority of the world's religions and beliefs I managed to offend in two sentences.)

Ender Look

@BESW 1) I have seen 2 movies in a row, the second usually is tiring 2) I play video games that amount of time usually... I am not sure if that is good 3) I never read a whole book in an evening... D&D basic guide was my record... 3 days!

Ben

@EnderLook Well, same advice I was given about planning out a game was to break it up into encounters. Usually 5-7. "Encounters" can be anything - a landmark that you might want the party to check out, talking to an npc, dealing with crossing a river, dealing with traps, and maybe one or 2 fights. It doesn't seem like much, but that, if all played out properly, including whatever side-tracking the PCs might want to do, wikll usually pan out to about 4 hrs, maybe longer if the PCs do extra stuff

Ender Look

3:58 AM

impressive

Ben

@Asteria @Nits well there you go. Honestly I saw is probably 20 years ago, on VHS, and all I remember was the last scene with the one-eyed rabbit jumping at the rabid dog.

BESW

In an hour-ish of Honey Heist, our two bear criminals parked a car, terrified a parking lot full of people, infiltrated an auditorium by roof and by lake, beat up or scared away two rival bears and a honey badger (stole the honey badger's hat), stole the convention's honey, took away a man's shotgun, ignored an angry mascot, and escaped back to the parking lot with the honey where we drove away.
Also Abraham Lincoln's ghost was there, but he didn't have much to contribute except color commentary.

nitsua60

"Also Lincoln's Ghost" would be a good name for a band.

BESW

We spent a good chunk of the time incapacitated by laughter, too.

nitsua60

Or an RPG in which all players play the same character but each in their own way, and they fight over how to solve civic problems.

Shalvenay

4:03 AM

@nitsua60 LOL!

BESW

@nitsua60 Nomic hack?

Ben

@nitsua60 I have actually heard of a game like that!

Shalvenay

@BESW in which all the PCs are lizardpeople on Capitol Hill?

Ben

Except each player is a voice in the PC's head, telling him to do things

nitsua60

@Ben That sounds familiar. Herman's Head, the RPG?

BESW

4:04 AM

@nitsua60 Everyone is John, probably.

Ben

And the outcome is determined by how "strongly" each voice will it to do a particular thing

That does sound familiar, yeah

Actually Everyone is John, I think that's it

Probably not exactly what you were thinking of though haha

BESW

@Shalvenay everyone-is-john-and-john-is-a-civic-planner

Miniman

@BESW It's possible, but I hope not. As (I hope) you can see, my perspective on a lot of this stuff has shifted from where it was back then.

BESW

We're both very different gamers, three and a half years later, I hope.

Miniman

@BESW That 3.5 years bit is a little scary, but yeah.

BESW

4:12 AM

I've been with RPG.SE, and this chat, more than five years. I'd GMed five systems, three of which were d20 or d20-ish, and played in two others, but only D&D editions for more than two sessions.

nitsua60

Sep 8 '14 at 5:40, by Magician

I could be reading too much into this, as I haven't played the old D&D, but it certainly feels that way. The one time I played an old module, it started with "and now a giant bird picks you up and carries you off to a new land".

I've totally played that module.

Miniman

@nitsua60 ...we're not talking about Dark Souls, are we?

Ben

That's what happened in our game.

Except it was a dragon.

nitsua60

Eye of the Serpent

Eye of the Serpent is an adventure module published in 1984 by TSR for the first edition of the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons fantasy roleplaying game. It is a first level scenario for one player and one gamemaster, but can also be used with a group of players. The single player can choose to be a ranger, druid or monk. == Plot summary == In Eye of the Serpent, the player characters are captured by a roc and brought to its nest; after escaping, they must find their way down the mountain and through a dangerous valley to return to civilization. If the scenario is played as a one-on-one scenario, the...

Ben

Cos you know... Dungeons and Dragons

@Miniman it's a shame that all of these jokes/references are very niche haha

Miniman

4:17 AM

> If the scenario is played as a one-on-one scenario, the player character is accompanied by three non-player characters.

Because, yanno...no-one can admit that their product isn't suitable for every situation.

nitsua60

I never knew that it was intended as a 1-on-1.

Miniman

@Ben I dunno that I'd call that one very niche.

Ben

True

nitsua60

The HHQ line of 2e modules, on the other hand, I feel actually does work 1-on-1.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Clearly, it wasn't. [badumtish]

nitsua60

4:19 AM

riiiiight.

=)

Anyway, I'm going to make a second attempt at getting off to bed. Night, all!

Ben

But, well... Over on gaming.se the total amount of questions tagged as "Dark Souls" (1, 2 or 3) is 800. Skyrim in >3000, and minecraft is >8000

Miniman

@Ben status-by-design Consider the target audience of Dark Souls - it's pretty much made for people who don't ask questions about the games they play, preferring to hunt for the answers themselves.

Ben

True. Most of those questions are about how the game works, I suppose, rather than about the lore (though there are a few questions about that in there)

Miniman

@Ben I mean, I'm not trying to deny that Skyrim is more popular than Dark Souls. Just saying that it might be punching a bit below its weight here.

Also, I would ask so many questions about the lore, but Vaati already gave me all the answers :D

BESW

Well, and gaming.se isn't here. rpg.se is.

Miniman

4:32 AM

@BESW True. So perhaps "wrong audience" rather than niche.

On the other hand, @Ben got it, and as long as someone gets it I don't think it was wasted.

Ben

Glad to be of service :P

BESW

Ben

Interesting

Perhaps it's got something to do with the afore-mentioned lore?

Or it could be that Miniman and I like talking about it. Haha

ATaco

Miniman

@Ben Yeah, I was about to say, given the number of people who frequent this room I think it mostly comes down to users' personal preferences.

Ooooh, also, in terms of their use as points of comparison to tabletop roleplaying, Dark Souls gets a lot more than most videogames.

Ben

4:38 AM

Yeah.

BESW

6:43 AM

Embrace your #creativity this year with these seven tips from Grayson Perry (a.k.a@Alan_Measles)

Tweeted by scriberian on January 7, 2018 at 3:45 PM

BESW

7:09 AM

During winter, ice boulders form when cold chunks break from ice sheets, and the movements of a lake’s waves sculpt those pieces into rounder shapes. On occasion, these rotund ice balls reach lake shores, where they form what can look like very cold ball pits

Tweeted by atlasobscura on January 8, 2018 at 9:00 AM

Does your fantasy world have ball pits of ice?

kviiri

8:32 AM

@Ben My SO is a huge lover of dogs and animation and wanted to see "that dog movie you always talk about". Meaning Plague Dogs, by the creators of Watership Down. It doesn't even pretend being a kids' movie.

The positive thing is, the movie goes rather over-the-top in its bleakness so we found a lot of solace in poking fun at how grim it is.

Or rather, she found - I had already seen it before so there weren't any surprises in there for me.

Ben

9:12 AM

[Writes "plague dogs" on my list of movies to watch]

BESW

Thread:

Birds have so much incredible diversity. Since it's still #NationalBirdDay, here's a thread of the 10 weirdest-looking birds I know. #1: an endangered Horned Guan by Josh More. https://www.flickr.com/photos/guppiecat/8636488666

Tweeted by RosemaryMosco on January 5, 2018 at 11:33 PM

kviiri

9:30 AM

For a happier animation, we watched Capture the Flag a few days ago. It's about a hot-tempered billionaire trying to convince masses that moon landings were fake by using their vast wealth to go to moon "first" and eradicate evidence of the Apollo moon missions. The heroic astronauts of NASA are brought back from retirement for a new moon mission on the good ol' Saturn V rockets.

The idea being, if the billionaire really gets there first, he could claim moon's resources for himself or something.

doppelgreener

TIL:

Fort Montgomery (Lake Champlain)

Fort Montgomery on Lake Champlain is the second of two American forts built at the northernmost point of the American part of the lake: a first, unnamed fort built on the same site in 1816 and Fort Montgomery built in 1844. The current massive stone fortification, the second fort, was built between 1844 and 1871 at the Canada–US border of Lake Champlain at Island Point in the village of Rouses Point, New York. == Background == === "Fort Blunder" === Construction was begun on the first fort at this location, an octagonal structure with 30-foot-high (9.1 m) walls, in 1816 to protect again...

The USA once built a fort near the Canadian/USA border near New York to protect against Canadian invasion, then a couple of months in realised they were building the fort in Canadian territory. They abandoned it and left.

The Oracle

0

Q: Why do people want to give answers that were not asked for?

I have noticed that people want to give answers and leave comments that the question is not asking for. This question, for example, has people immediately saying "don't" instead of just answering the question. Why? Why do people try to say "don't" or similar things instead of simply providing an ...

BESW

@kviiri I've seen some great non-English animated films in the last few years. Avril et le Monde Truqué and Un monstre à Paris are lots of fun. La Tortue Rouge is quiet and a little sad, but beautiful. I've heard good things about Tout en haut du monde. The designs in Mune, le gardien de la Lune were fun, even if the story was a bit flat.

(I'm not sure why a co-production between Dutch, German, and Japanese interests gets a French primary title, but go figure.)

BESW

10:06 AM

And of course there's excellent stop-motion animation like Kubo and the Two Strings and ParaNorman.

kviiri

@BESW It's supposedly the language of art! (or one of those, at least)

BESW

'Cause it's French!

kviiri

10:22 AM

I was one of the three boys in our school's French class. Most of the elective French students were girls. It's weird how stuff gets gendered...

trogdor

@BESW Kubo was fantastic

can't speak for the other one just cause I didn't see it

BESW

You haven't seen ParaNorman?!

This will be rectified.

...I could've sworn I showed you ParaNorman years ago.

BESW

10:42 AM

trogdor

11:21 AM

@BESW you did not

BESW

AAAAAH.

trogdor

you said you would at some point, but it did not happen yet

I mean, I still have to see sooo many things

this has not eaten me up inside

we can only get through so many of them with the time we have allotted

BESW

Must... allot... more time...

trogdor

ooooh wait a second

you did

somehow,... I remember specifically that guy in the middle

BESW

2

trogdor

11:24 AM

because he was just so,.... well maybe not insult him

@BESW I deserve that

BESW

Mitch was refreshingly aware that his competence mode was pretty niche.

trogdor

yes

BESW

Case in point.

kviiri

11:47 AM

@BESW The Hagrid on the right somehow makes me think of Hotline Miami.

doppelgreener

12:23 PM

@trogdor the guy in the middle is great.

trogdor

@doppelgreener I didn't want to say he wasn't

SPavel

1:36 PM

Good morning, chat-dwellers

What manner of fate befalls you?

kviiri

css

SPavel

@kviiri Ah, the worst fate.

kviiri

@SPavel Yes, truly.

Hell is CSS.

SPavel

1:56 PM

@kviiri Hell is other people's CSS.

padding: 7px
margin: -7px
z-index: 100000000

Peter Cooper Jr.

It wouldn't shock me if somebody has written an adventure where one dives into the depths of Hades and has to deal with that kind of CSS.

SPavel

display: inherit !important

Oh also there is a javascript somewhere in the 500 component files that make up the page, which applies its own CSS

Because in this case, degrading gracefully describes the designer's state of mind instead of the browser behaviour.

3

Quentin

@SPavel d6-d6 FATE

Adam

@SPavel If their state of mind is anything like mine, it's not degrading gracefully - it's degrading chaotically.

SPavel

@Adam Maintaining grace amid chaos is the hallmark of success

kviiri

2:34 PM

@Quentin Is that like Fate except you roll 1d6 - 1d6 instead of 4df?

SPavel

1d6-1d6 actually produces a very pleasing curve

Quentin

@kviiri Yes. Very similar distribution of results, but without having to get special dice :)

Not that I lack special dice. I have a love-hate relationship with my 12 sided Fate dice. They look great. They roll better than d6s. But the manufacturing process is dodgy so they aren't fair. :(

kviiri

Interesting. I'd guess it's slightly less biased towards the center though? I'm not sure if it's actually noticeably different.

SPavel

12-sided dice are lame

I maintain that there are only two good dice shapes - d6 and d20

doppelgreener

@SPavel suddenly i feel an acute pain in my chest

SPavel

2:40 PM

d20 is just such a pleasure to hold and roll, much more pleasing and iconic than any dice, and d6es are the "standard" die that everyone grows up with, perfectly shaped for throwing handfuls of.

d10

3

d12

6

Yeah I'm going to have to disagree, I LOVE d12s.

SPavel

2:44 PM

@Rubiksmoose Barbarian!

doppelgreener

All dice religious war can be settled on a battlefield covered with d4's

This could be said to favour the people who love d4's above all else, but those people need all the help they can get. Including potentially institutional.

Rubiksmoose

@SPavel I don't know if it is intentional, but barbarians do indeed have d12 hit die lol

SPavel