TRPG General Chat

BESW

8:00 AM

Pixie dust can be used as non-toxic disinfectant in small quantities.

Try to only use a pinch or two for each scoop of gnomes.

Maiko Chikyu

Should you be unable to precure pixie dust child tears are an acceptable substitude

trogdor

oooooh child tears yep have plenty of those

my tears count for that right? :P

Maiko Chikyu

Hmm. Worth a shot

Want me to fetch my whip to help you out?

trogdor

8:17 AM

not necessary

I can actually make myself cry with some small amount of effort

BESW

Well that got creepy fast.

trogdor

yes, yes it did

Anaphory

9:58 AM

Hey

BESW

Hey! How's the pancreas doing?

Anaphory

That hasn't changed much, currently waiting for the doctor to ask some more detailed questions (no chance yesterday, and doctors are busy with emergency stuff during the weekend, so a few questions have accumulated)

However, the high fever from the weekend seems gone, the thorax drain seems to be doing its job and slowly running dry, and food was tasty again today.

BESW

That's good!

Anaphory

Yes! So much better. It's still unclear how long the core problem will take, but at least it seems like the side complications are getting out of the way.

Also, I feel like sitting in front of a computer and communicating, which is nice.

trogdor

that is good

I hope you get a doctors attention sometime soon

doppelgreener

10:28 AM

All of that sounds pretty good :' D I'm glad to hear it

BESW

10:41 AM

Tonight I fried carrots and onions and green beans in sesame oil with garlic and pepper and ginger, then fried salmon in olive oil with calamansi juice and cayenne pepper. Tossed them together and served on whole wheat noodles.

kviiri

11:40 AM

@Anaphory So glad to hear you're getting better. :)

doppelgreener

@BESW @trogdor I don't recall if I said, but on the weekend I mentioned to the Cthulhu Dark author something: we were never quite sure what exactly we should do with a character who goes totally insane, but that it never turned out to be much of a problem since that only ever happened right at the end. He nodded and said he'd very carefully engineered it that way. Playtesting ho! o/

trogdor

oh, I didn't realize that that was a thing he was trying to do with it

to get it to happen at the end

Maiko Chikyu

11:55 AM

Cthulhu Dark?Is it like Call Of Cthulhu?

kviiri

@MaikoChikyu It's a horror game in a similar vein, but very lightweight and simple.

Maiko Chikyu

Ok.

By the way i am thinking of trying out a system called Anima. Does anyone have experience with it?

BESW

Cthulhu Dark's ruleset fits on both sides of a single sheet of typing paper with room to spare. It's designed for quick-start one-session games, and unlike Call it's very much focused on the helplessness of the protagonists.

But it's not particularly focused on mystery-solving, like Trail, either.

Anima: Beyond Fantasy?

Maiko Chikyu

In the one i played i was really helpless. Also yeah.

From a glance it looks like D&D and WOD had a child.

BESW

Call of Cthulhu is... well, the Basic Role-Playing engine is open to a lot of adjudication by the GM. On its own the CoC system doesn't have much in the way of mechanical push toward any particular genre or playstyle.

doppelgreener

12:03 PM

Is Call of Cthulhu also the d20-adapted game that makes the folly of statting all the elder gods so that they can actually be defeated?

BESW

It tends to default towards high-resolution mechanics while allowing narrative creativity to override hard mechanical barriers to whatever extent the GM can be persuaded to allow.

Call of Cthulhu uses the Basic Role-Playing engine (percentile dice). There is, however, a Call of Cthulhu d20 edition that's been modified for the d20 System.

Maiko Chikyu

I mean Anima when i say it looks like the child of D&D and WOD

BESW

I know next to nothing about Anima.

[rummages]

Maiko Chikyu

I played a game on steam called Anima Gate Of Memories which got me interested in the system/setting

kviiri

@MaikoChikyu IIRC a friend of mine got into Anima and started by making an expert AI system for character optimization. Sounds a bit nasty to me.

BESW

12:05 PM

@Shalvenay and @kviiri might be able to help with Anima questions? Maybe @SevenSidedDie too.

kviiri

That's literally all I know about Anima :P

And it might've been Exalted too, now that I think of it.

Maiko Chikyu

Lol

I don't have any particular questions. I just never played anima before or have seen it played so i wanted to ask if there was anything to watch out for.

BESW

12:22 PM

This carved globe, made from joining the lower halves of two ostrich eggs,may be the oldest known depiction of the New World.The globe, dated to 1504, contains the phrase HC SVNT DRACONES ("here be dragons"), which appears above the coast of Southeast Asia http://www.ancient-origins.net/artifacts-other-artifacts/globe-ostrich-egg-world-s-oldest-depiction-new-world-008514

Tweeted by ticiaverveer on December 2, 2017 at 11:05 PM

Using an egg for a cast must be nerve-wracking.

eimyr

hello

@BESW Can I have a question re: Fate Economy?

Maiko Chikyu

12:42 PM

Fate Economy?

Fate as in the system?

eimyr

@MaikoChikyu Fate Point Economy. It's an emergent subsystem in Fate family of games which describes how characters gain and spend Fate Points, usually in cycles of abundance and scarcity, though not always.

My question is whether I should make (as a GM) conscious effort to spend more Fate Points invoking and compelling against the players when they are low on FP, and also, whether I should feel obligated using all FP in my GM pool each scene.

Maiko Chikyu

Ah. Well from personal experience starting to award people more when they are low on that resource encourages them to spend it more often so the important question is: Do you want your players to spend their points to accomplish epic feats or would you prefer it if they avoided situations where they will need to perform epic feats using their brains

Also don't feel obligated. Those points are to be used for dramatic encounters rather than usual encounters so trying to deplete them in each session will make the game less dramatic.

eimyr

unless each "encounter" is dramatic

Maiko Chikyu

If you can pull that off then good job.

I tend to build up to things among sessions and then have one big encounter.

eimyr

I'm a fan of super-aggressive pacing

also, I don't really have "encounters"

ACuriousMind

12:50 PM

I'm not sure Fate recognizes the notion of "dramatic" and "usual" encounters. If a scene is not dramatic, then why play it?

eimyr

I'm in it for the story, not combat or adventuring. if the scene does not advance the story (e.g. shopping scene or uneventful travel") it's not worth playing

just go straight to the heist and use FP to establish how you prepared for it

Maiko Chikyu

It doesn't have to be dramatic in order to advance the plot but i understand your technique.

eimyr

or say "it's three days later and you arrived at your destination - I'll give you all a Fate Point if the way was difficult and you are all out of provisions"

ACuriousMind

@eimyr I've always been uneasy with the FP economy, but I think you should just hand out points by compelling/invoking whenever you think it's appropriate. If you keep ending up with players who never have fate points or ones who always have an abundance, you need to find the specific reason for that - there can be many one can't address in the abstract.

doppelgreener

@eimyr You're not obligated to use your scene's FP up. There will even be plenty of scenes where you simply cannot because there is nothing to invoke. They're there to be available, but not a must.

@eimyr Also, in general, I don't think you need to make any change of pace -- but I do suggest making a point of offering compels to players who've used up all their fate points when an opportunity presents itself. It's a present! One with teeth attached!

eimyr

12:57 PM

@doppelgreener I always forget that if I simply invoke their aspects they get the points after the scene

ALWAYS

doppelgreener

@eimyr Compels immediate, invokes later. Yeah.

kviiri

I'd guess, as a player with no fate points left, I'd be looking out for good self-compels all the time. You still get Fate points from those, right?

doppelgreener

Of course

eimyr

I look for self-compels when I'm full on FP, to stockpile them and also, because it's safer this way

#hoarder

kviiri

I think the whole compel idea is a good way to disconnect drawbacks suffered by the character from being displeasing to the player

doppelgreener

1:01 PM

I think the guideline here would be:
- as a player, look for self-compel opportunities all the time
- as a GM, look for opportunities compel your players all the time
- do this no matter how many fate points you/they have
- as the GM, grin evilly when your player has no fate points left, doubly so when you're offering them a compel

@kviiri a while ago, BESW and Lord_Gareth were speaking about compels. BESW had described that a player was about to be subject to mind control, was prepared to spend almost all their fate points to resist it -- but when offered a single fate point to actually lose to the mind control, they took a few seconds to think about it then accepted unconditionally and took the fate point.

kviiri

@doppelgreener Yeah, the good ol' "trust me, it'll be more fun this way" :P

doppelgreener

Lord_Gareth was amazed because in freeform gaming such a prospect usually takes at least half an hour of negotiation‌, while the game gets frozen up to discuss exactly what mind control means & doesn't mean, where the limits are, what they'll be forced to do, etc.

Fate Points as a mode of rewarding complication short-circuited that negotiation process entirely into a five second decision.

kviiri

When I describe Fate aspects to my friends they're like "oh, sounds like edges and hindrances from Savage Worlds"

But when we were playing Deadlands: Reloaded, pretty much all our party had rather tame and boring hindrances.

eimyr

@kviiri ahh, the minmaxed "flaws" of many a game

Maiko Chikyu

I remember spending 3 fate points in order to be able to watch anime IC. Now i feel like running a FATE game.

kviiri

1:08 PM

Our sheriff was illiterate, big deal. The others in the party could read for him. My character feared cats and loved to talk about it, but it seldom kicked in because no one else remembered what cat phobia actually does (it's a boring -2 modifier when in presence of cats).

Stuff like that.

eimyr

@MaikoChikyu which anime did you choose? Please say fate/zero

doppelgreener

Right, Fate aspects are Not That.

Maiko Chikyu

No game no life

kviiri

Supposedly, the GM is supposed to grant bennies for role-playing hindrances, but "oh gosh, I can't read, can someone else read it for me?" is not really interesting role-play because it's just cruft tagged on a character's personality for build points and not an actual personality trait.

doppelgreener

Fate Aspects are "here are things true about your character" that are often double-edged, and critically, come with Fate Points that outright reward you powerfully for playing straight into all the bad stuff that can follow from your character traits (even the positive ones).

Atomic Robo's super strong -- but that means he often over-estimates his strength, so if he uses his super-strength, he's probably going to horribly break something important.

There's a point where he tries to break out of a prison in an airship, and does so so sucessfully that his prison entirely detaches from the airship and plummets a mile into the ocean below.

So his strength is entirely positive but we can still play into its complications via compels like that.

Atomic Robo's also an invincible robot built like a tank, but we can play into the complications of that: he's extremely heavy (weighs over a ton) and has a critical weakness to magnets which, if powerful and used right, can knock him out cold.

Also, the Tesladyne field manual (i.e. the survival guide for field agents & scientists in Atomic Robo's private military & science company) advises that nobody ever stand near Robo during a field fight, because he has a perfect 100% track record of becoming surrounded in explosions in every fight he's ever been in. He can survive those just fine, but his human comrades not so much and they're better off keeping their distance.

I have seen games that try to suggest you have flaws and try to make you pay attention to them (e.g. D&D 5e) but they only do so much and you're usually best off making your flaws have as little impact as possible. Fate on the other hand rewards you for actively exploring as many flaws as you can find and playing into them to the fullest and makes a player feel OK to explore those flaws freely; I haven't yet seen another game that does that.

kviiri

1:17 PM

@doppelgreener DnD overall isn't very good with the "failure is fun" bit. That's exactly what I mean by disconnecting "character has fun" from "player has fun" :)

eimyr

@doppelgreener Better yet, Flaws encourages to find a way that your super-positive, carefully worded High Concept has a hidden catch that's worth compelling

Alphaeus

@eimyr DnD totally fails on that point

eimyr

@Alphaeus and so does a number of other systems

Alphaeus

Quite true

because, like most games, games = playing to win

Playing to win = not doing/having bad stuff

doppelgreener

@eimyr "So I see you're playing a dryad....... what are the odds these enemies get out some herbicide?"

Alphaeus

1:19 PM

HAaaaaaaaaaaahahahahah

doppelgreener

(This is a serious thing BESW and I contemplated for my dryad character in our Amaterasu game.)

@Alphaeus in fate, exploring all kinds of bad stuff = how playing to win happens. in fact, minmaxing a character necessarily means losing all the time!

Alphaeus

Well, kinda along that note I had a group that went full plant-hippy in DnD once.

Made the villains an enclave of Blighters

:D

eimyr

@doppelgreener Remember when we played Morts and I tried to light the fog on fire with my character that was essentially a collection of food puns? That WASN'T a good self-compel.

Alphaeus

@doppelgreener That's actually really cool. I keep wanting to get into Fate but never have. Tell me, does fate have an online SRD/OGL element that I could use to get my feet wet?

eimyr

@Alphaeus fate-srd.com

@Alphaeus Fate is free...

Alphaeus

1:23 PM

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Free = Superb in my book

eimyr

@Alphaeus evilhat.com/home/fate-core-downloads

Alphaeus

Thanks mate

eimyr

no worries, make sure to check out FAE too

Maiko Chikyu

I need to head out to run my pathfinder game

Take care everyone

Alphaeus

Cya mate

Maiko Chikyu

1:25 PM

I mentioned Pathfinder and i am not called heretic. I am finally home.

9

eimyr

@MaikoChikyu this is a big crowd and we respect all playstyles. Have fun!

Alphaeus

@MaikoChikyu Hey, I love PF

kviiri

PF has many friends here.

Alphaeus

I mean, if we like DnD, then anyone worth their skin should also like Pathfinder as a slightly-more-sensible revision of DnD

eimyr

@Alphaeus 13th Age > D&D5e > PF > D&D 3.5 > D&D 3e

now let's fight

Alphaeus

1:30 PM

Haven't played 13th age.

So can't say that

What I will say, is this:

kviiri

@Alphaeus Well, I and some others here consider 4th edition to be a slightly-more-sensible revision of DnD, but I think that also aligns quite well with people who don't really like DnD much in general.

Alphaeus

Right.

My mentality is... PF > DnD 3.5e > DnD 5e > DnD 4e > DnD 3e

eimyr

@kviiri I didn't include 4th in this progression for the same reason I didn't include Dungeon World or OD&D. These are fundamentally different games

Alphaeus

While I love the older editions of DnD for their charm, I can't help but realize they were borked on many levels

kviiri

@eimyr 13th Age is quite similar to 4th edition, isn't it?

eimyr

1:32 PM

@kviiri Perhaps?

kviiri

1:43 PM

At least it has powers

:)

Or a similar mechanic.

I'm having a serious urge to play FAE with my friends, too bad most of them are rather wary of new systems.

Mike Q

2:08 PM

@Alphaeus @eimyr What are these progressions measuring or comparing?

Alphaeus

Preferences of systems

In relation to DnD-based systems

Mike Q

Ah, okay. Well I'm in the same boat as what eimyr said -- some of those systems are too different to compare.

Alphaeus

Agreed, generally

doppelgreener

@Alphaeus 1,000% free, with tons of Worlds of Adventure for Fate available for pay-what-you-want-including-free because they're already paid for via patreon. (They generally break even or make a small amount of profit.) My favorite among those is Masters of Umdaar, a laser fantasy game like He-Man or Thundercats.

@eimyr Yeah, I'm not sure we handled that one right.

Alphaeus

Cool, that sounds really good

I'm juggling work and reading that right now

doppelgreener

2:26 PM

Also the links eimyr provided were legit; there's a PDF copy of Fate Core available, and a PDF copy of Fate Accelerated. Both free. Then there's the Fate SRD site which is a full reproduction of both (except for illustrations), which also incorporates after-the-fact developments, commentary, and clarification from the developers as they ongoingly work to improve the system.

eimyr

@MikeQ Personal preference.

doppelgreener

3:04 PM

@MaikoChikyu As a community we aim to embrace all games and playstyles. Except for FATAL, which we keep at a safe quarantine distance and examine via binoculars.

deadEarth has similar quarantine restrictions, but can be handled safely with the right hazmat equipment for comedic examination.

Alphaeus

@doppelgreener lmao, what's so bad about those two? Never heard of them, really, except in passing jokes.

doppelgreener

Most of the rest of the worst RPGs ever have comparable quarantine & safe handling restrictions.

@Alphaeus FATAL and deadEarth each embody and mechanise almost every single offensive ideology on the planet. DeadEarth does that but also gives you a character generation process that involves rolling over 600 dice -- and possibly makes you reroll nearly the same number at least once -- for just one character, and during character creation you must make three, and probably all three will die and/or become unplayably crippled during character creation, or else will die within hours after.

Alphaeus

The CENSORED

doppelgreener

Yep.

They're bad. They're on the worst RPGs ever list for a reason. That list isn't just being facetious.

Alphaeus

I gotta read that

Mike Q

3:08 PM

@Alphaeus To put it lightly... it's obscene. And unplayable, both in terms of "no human should play this" and also in terms of "this system is too complicated to comprehend, let alone execute"

Alphaeus

Just how in the flippety flip did someone say "Haha, Isa make-a yousa disa game, ya"

doppelgreener

@Alphaeus That sounds like a Jar-Jar accent and if he was involved that would make the situation only a little bit more believable.

Mike Q

Reading the FATAL rulebook is so disturbing and mentally taxing, I would equate it to reading the Necronomicon while vomiting uncontrollably. For reasons that are difficult to explain, I attempted to read the rulebook myself, and I would never recommend it to anyone, ever.

Alphaeus

@doppelgreener That was my immediate reasoning, yes :P

doppelgreener

@MikeQ While the Necronomicon is vomiting uncontrollably, even.

I mean, us vomiting uncontrollably while reading FATAL is just a given.

This is why we have the quarantine procedures though.

Mike Q

3:16 PM

I've only heard one story of people who attempted to actually play the game. They were stuck in character creation for around 6 hours (and required copious amounts of booze just to tolerate that) and eventually gave up.

Alphaeus

I just gave up reading the full review of it

I'm at work, so laughing that much isn't particularly acceptable

Mike Q

The simple version is... DnD-like setting, except you effectively roll a d1000 (or more) for everything, and instead of successes or failures, you have to look up results on large tables that were written by socially maladjusted and perverted (and grossly uninformed) 12 year olds

Alphaeus

Interesting.

Yeah, I noticed it they said it had a system for determining anus size

Mike Q

But it's never "so bad it's good" or "so bad, you just have to see it". It's just really, really bad.

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