TRPG General Chat

12:12 AM

@BESW It's funny how many people forget that something that's free to copy is not free to create.

(re: that tweet)

@SPavel But it also free to copy for the publisher, compared to traditional print books which cost resources to distribute

BESW

I mean... online hosting and store interfaces aren't free either.

And, you know. The content is valuable regardless of overhead costs.

A quick Google of "digital publishing costs" or similar terms will get you lots of detailed breakdowns and big-picture overviews of how the publishing industry and its costs are vastly different from the way most people outside the industry imagine them.

Shalvenay

@BESW the problem is -- trying to let the value of the work (which is variable) ride on the near-nil marginal costs doesn't work particularly well. (I think this is why PWYW works -- it lets people sort of make a personal value judgement on the work by way of setting the price for it)

BESW

> One problem seems to be in the model we’re using to describe the costs involved with digital publishing, relying on a manufacturing model rather than a more suitable model that involves sustaining and spreading fixed costs across a longer time horizon.[...]
Publishers need to move beyond the print model of sunk costs and marginal costs. Digital publishing presents a different economic game, and defraying fixed costs while paying for talent, infrastructure improvements, and ongoing publishing takes a model more like software or online distribution.

> (source)

Shalvenay

@BESW no freakin' kidding -- it doesn't help that we have legacy-player millstones around our necks in this process

BESW

12:28 AM

The vast majority of the costs in a book are fixed anyway--editing, proofreading, employee salaries, layout and design, building expenses, etc.

Shalvenay

aye

BESW

> If you think of books primarily as physical objects, then off course they'll seem a rip-off, because printing and distributing them is cheap. (source)

Shalvenay

although there are some process problems as well -- having your manuscript retyped (with the inevitable introduction of typos and whatnot) seems to be a part of the workflow far too often even if you're sending them the manuscript digitally

BESW

As someone who works with laying out client-provided texts on a regular basis, I'm guessing that a professional typist is usually going to correct more errors than she introduces.

> Printing costs are 1/5th to 1/10th (sometimes lesser for higher priced books) of the final book price. But e-books also has the potential of fewer middlemen. (source)

NYT: Math of Publishing Meets the E-Book

...I'll stop there. This information is readily available and the 'ebooks are free to distribute' illusion is demonstrably false.

Copy-pasting a file on my computer is not the same as making a new copy of the file available to anyone who wants to buy it, whenever they want it, using whatever payment method they like, on an interface that works on whatever platform they're using, with tech support on standby so the inevitable problems don't interrupt the availability.

Okay, one last link:

28

A: What is an SRD for?

They're for what they say on the tin: they're built as a general reference document for the game. What goes into them exactly depends on what the authors decided to put in there to build that reference — there's no set standard. Some SRDs are enormously comprehensive libraries of just about every...

Shalvenay

12:43 AM

@BESW yeah -- those costs are all fixed though. once that works, the difference between that vending-machine if you will spitting out 100 copies vs 101 copies is basically nil.

@BESW I agree that another pair of eyeballs to spot typos etal is a very good thing. but, the frustrations come late in the proofing cycle where the noise, if you will, becomes more significant (plotting typos against time :)

and there are some weird costs too -- like apparently you have to buy ISBNs in batches of 10, at $265? a batch

@BESW the other half of that is that ebook-vending-machine can be made generic, allowing the cost to be amortized across lots of different releases, authors, etal

BESW

@Shalvenay See also, bookstores.

For blind gamers you can ask Siri on the iPhone to roll up to 2d6 or just say "Siri give me a random number between 1 and 20" You have a D&D die roller. Please Retweet this so the blind RPGers & people who care about them hear this. Twitter RPG people lets spread the word please?

Tweeted by TempleLSmith on November 14, 2017 at 10:53 PM

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah, some people still want hardcopies

my great frustration is when materials are locked away from the normal library system though

BESW

The above works on most voice-activated assistants, apparently, though they can be a little stuffy about pronunciation and my Android phone doesn't know what a fudge die is.

Shalvenay

dangit, VI's been off in left field for so long I can't @mention them

@BESW -- ever had the infuriating experience of trying to check something out, finding your library doesn't have it, finding out it's only available at a few libraries on the planet according to WorldCat, and then finding out that what you want is ineligible for inter-library loan?

(and oh: apparently the PDF version costs as much as a semester's worth of textbooks)

BESW

1:01 AM

@Shalvenay I grew up on Guam. Inter-library loans were un-heard of when I was a kid.

@Shalvenay I pinged them on Discord.

Shalvenay

@BESW ah. didn't realize your library like...must have not been connected to WorldCat at all or something.

@BESW thx :) forgot about that for a moment

@BESW but yeah. it's actually worse when WorldCat is there, taunting you...:/

BESW

I think maybe technically they could do inter-library loans, but the cost was so prohibitive that they couldn't in practice.

[shrug] I don't know the details.

Ok, challenge: RPGs which are *largely* non violent, but which still contain a space for violence (ideally, as a Bad Thing) within the game. Ideas?

Tweeted by rdonoghue on November 15, 2017 at 9:03 PM

nitsua60

1:51 AM

@Papayaman1000 I've been looking at a red-boxed "1" in discord for days (weeks?) now and trying to figure out what it signified... just now saw there's a "pending" tab.

(I.e. I hope you take no offense at the time it took me to accept!)

Ben

shop.blindferret.com/collections/looking-for-group/products/…

For anyone who follows Looking For Group

Yuuki

@Ben ... that's still a thing?

Ben

Oh yeah

It's been going on for years. I was surprised when I found it again 2 years ago

How do orcs meet their bros?

BRAAAAAAAAH!

BESW

2:09 AM

@Yuuki That was my reaction, too.

Shalvenay

2:23 AM

hey there @Yuuki

and @inthemanual too

Hi.

Hi.

how're things going?

Playing far too much Destiny 2.

Shalvenay

2:57 AM

trying to wrap my head around the application of story-driven RP models to persistent, multi-party worlds and failing miserably

Miniman

3:23 AM

@BESW For me, it's one of a number of webcomics that have long since stopped being interesting, but I nevertheless vaguely keep up with because it's easier than not.

Now that I think about it, there's a lot in that category.

Thinking about it further, it's possible I just don't really engage with the 1 comic per x amount of time format.

wb @inthemanual

I'm in and out :P

ah

3:42 AM

@Shalvenay To be fair, that's a rather hard problem to solve.

Shalvenay

@Yuuki aye. most people just plod ahead, not thinking about how many fridges worth of logic it takes to make such a thing appear to work

Oak

3:55 AM

New themes now live :-)

Shalvenay

cool

Erics

4:07 AM

@Oak neat, where is that from?

Oak

@Erics mipui.net/app

BESW

Personally I take an Old Who approach to story logic: the less you try to explain things, the more space you leave for stories later.

Things that aren't explained are better than explanations which don't make sense.

Shalvenay

the problem with simply leaving things unexplained is that's an awful lotta rope for me to hang the whole crowd, me included, out to dry with

because without adequate explanations for why things do or don't work, that's an awful lot of room for me to start well...bending things

knocking over okapi butts

hey there @nitsua60

Yuuki

4:24 AM

There's always the WoW approach of instanced storytelling (i.e. everyone goes through the same order of dungeons and plots).

But I guess that feels too impersonal.

Players might feel less connected to the world.

Shalvenay

instanced storytelling only works for premade content anyway

it's a non-option if you want organic storylines

BESW

I suspect there's a fast/good/cheap "choose two" thing going on.

Organic/coherent/multiparty, perhaps.

Shalvenay

I suspect that's not quite the case -- but something does have to give to get all three of those factors in, and my line of thinking is that it's plot-first thinking that has to go the way of the dodo

Ben

4:45 AM

@Miniman Same. I have no idea what the story is doing. I just recognise the characters. Most attention I pay to this one in particular is anything to do with Richard - and its off-shoot "Tiny Dick Adventures"

Miniman

@Ben For me, when reading it, I generally have a reasonable idea of what's going on - I'm just not particularly interested in it.

Ben

In all honesty the last time I paid any real attention to the story line was before the Tauran (or whatever they call cow-people in the series) joined

Miniman

@Ben Do you find you have the same problem with webcomics in general? Like, if you randomly asked me what LFG is up to (or Schlock Mercenary, or Atomic Robo, and so on...), I'd be able to tell you. But I can't say I'm really engaged with or caring about any of those storylines.

The only webcomic I can think of that's managed to keep me invested once I ran out of back issues is OotS.

Hmmm...Darths and Droids, too, but not always.

Ben

@Miniman Honestly, not really. I'm too far out of it. I think at this point while I do enjoy the series (and by that I mean purely Richard) there's wayyyy too much that's happened since the last time I read it properly.

It's a little intimidating really haha

Miniman

@Ben Totally understand that! I'm more curious if you have the same thing happen to you with other webcomics, or if that's just me.

Ben

4:53 AM

Nah. I think LFG was the only webcomic that I did actually read to any extent.

Miniman

Ah, right.

Ben

Except maybe Gone With the Blast Wave - but I don't think that's quite the same

In other news - I got my "Wednesday" shirt

...on Wednesday.

Ben

5:12 AM

I couldn't put it on until after midnight

\o

o/

Sup?

My day does not want to end

Lol. It's IT Support day

Where all Pennywise's talk about their jobs

Nyoze

I wish I had a Pennywise job :\

Ben

5:23 AM

In reality though, I've been arguing with Help Desk Support for most of the day
"Have you tried doing (x)?"
"Yes"
"What about (y) or (z)?"
"Yes"
"Ok, I'll refer you to our forum-"
"Look, Fred, we've done this three times over. Just fix the damn issue or I swear to SpongeBob you will not live to see tomorrow!"
"Ok, sir, calm down now please."
"Sorry, Fred. I'm just a little hot headed. Give Martha my regards."

Nyoze

Yeah... I get you there lol. Level 1 support just reads off of the script, and that's pretty much it. Still... Would rather that, at least it's a foot in the door :O

What issue are you having?

Ben

Reckon

I have never understood the way they have their server setups. There's a server to host a file for Multi-user access, and then you can also host a file in Multi-user access on the Client, as well as the requirement to open the file itself in multi-user access mode.

Then there's all this hoopla about the firewall. All the programs that need access, ports, artificial users that need access to the file for sharing purposes... it just keeps going on.

I have a program that (sort of) does the same thing. You know how much set up that requires? Run the .exe and make sure you have the database installed.

Nyoze

IT Security likes making things harder for everyone. My company recently just installed an 8th layer of security just to login to the network (When your on-site plugged in via ethernet behind keycard gates, so technically 10 or 11 layers total.)

Ben

@Nyoze When there's a system, I could understand it and be fine with dealing with it. So long as it worked

And wasn't just some hash job that just slapped layer upon layer of security on top of itself with the intention of saying "If we can't get in, no one can!"

Nyoze

5:39 AM

Wow. Yeah... That's a bit over the top lol

Ben

It is an exaggeration. I mean, Reckon is one of the biggest bookkeeping programs in the Australian market (previously known and Quicken). But looking at the system, it just feels like that's how it was built up - Built up over time, rather than built up as a single functioning system.

Nyoze

We have the same problem with Siebel all the time. :\

And our on-site IT team can't do shit with Siebel. It has to go to a specialist team based in Mumbai, and 95% of the time they fob it off to Oracle.

Ben

Oh god

Nyoze

But it was never built as a single platform. It's been upgraded after upgraded after upgraded so many times. Whenever there's an issue, they usually don't fix it, but go around instead

Ben

@Nyoze Sounds like my client's previous IT support crew

They were using the same server setup for 2 people, 5 years later when they had over 20 people working in the office

Ben

6:07 AM

I think I might have the first session planned out for my game... and half of the second

BESW

6:34 AM

@Miniman I find that it depends on the pacing and style of the comic. Some I'll stay up-to-date every update, like Schlock Mercenary. Others I'll wait until I can binge a chapter or more at a time, like Dents or Paradigm Shift.

Miniman

@BESW Hmmm, interesting.

BESW

There's a couple comics with really slow updates, that I'm willing to wait years (in one case more than a decade) for enough material to begin reading again.

I really like them, but I just can't take them in dribs and drabs.

trogdor

6:59 AM

I love reading the comics I have

whether I am catching up or just waiting for the next update

that being said, I did drop Looking for Group a long time ago too

that one definitely felt like it was dragging on way too long

and it isn't really how long it lasted so much as the type of story it turned into,.... and the type of story it turned into does not have the business continuing as long as it has in my personal opinion

BESW

7:28 AM

Notes From Another Chat: "The Green Heartbreaks" would be a good name for a band.

...or possibly the first novel in a YA fantasy romance series.

In other news, I think I found a hook for a horror campaign:

@girlonthenet Sometimes I worry about the spiders I haven't seen and what they are up to

Tweeted by donttelltales on November 2, 2017 at 7:34 PM in reply to girlonthenet

trogdor

9:27 AM

@BESW please no

we have more than one person truly afraid of spiders in our group (I am one of them)

though in shows and games they are usually not so bad for me

but like,... a horror game at all about spiders is pushing it

Magician

Campaign hook: spiders are ritually sacrificing their own children by throwing them down the mouth of a sleeping god. The ancient prophecy says if eight spiders are not fed to the deity annually, it will wake up.

doppelspooker

10:49 AM

@Magician nooo XD

though, that could be a game hook about The Secret Terrible Lives of Spiders

trogdor

lol

Magician

11:24 AM

New Fate World: The Secret of Spiders. Spider PCs in a real world city protect the lovecraftian horrors lurking beneath its skin from meddling investigators.

Investigators would go insane, horrors would get dynamited, it'll be no good. Spiders protect the status quo. And their webs. Mostly their webs.

Do you know what meddling investigators inevitably find in dark crypts and hidden basements? Webs. And they tear through them. That's the true horror.

Trish

Maaan, I like player participation, I am ok with players correcting me on clearly wrong stuff (like misremembering a formula or damage of a weapon), but if they fight my rulings? There I draw a line... Accept the ruling, take over or leave. That's the options. (in relation to rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/110092/…)

kviiri

11:50 AM

I dislike that philosophy. Just because you're GM doesn't mean you know what's best for the game.

Trish

@kviiri I do listen to people and reread the rulebook several times before establishing a ruling, but once I establish something like "Fireball doesn't do fire damage when cast onto a target under water, but creates a steam bubble instead, doing only half bludgeoning damage", I expect players to run with it.

If they have very good arguments and gring up a fringe situation that I didn't consider at all that changes the whole problem, I consider it and might change the ruling - but not during gametime

(plus, in D&D it is in the rules: Golden Rule.. GM is always right)

kviiri

@Trish That's a bad rule.

Trish

@kviiri tell that the inventors.

kviiri

As if WotC would change DnD in any major way after all the flak 4e got... :<

Besides, while I think it's a bad rule, it's one that's borderline necessary in DnD.

Trish

12:06 PM

it is actually a rule that is in a lot of games, sometimes putting some limits on it... made that actually a History of gaming question: where and when did it got codified as we know it?

kviiri

I know it's in many games, often implicitly and often explicitly.

Trish

I mean, I know that it comes from wargaming probably - where the Judge has the job to go around and solve disputes. Maybe Chainmail??

Magician

The GM is always right.*
*If the GM is often wrong, find another GM.

That's how it works out

kviiri

Some have it in the milder form that "the group decides but GM arbites".

But not every system that has it really needs it as much as DnD does.

Magician

It's necessary in the "rulings not rules" games. Not entirely sure how applicable that is to 5e, though.

Trish

12:08 PM

@kviiri That actually is pretty much waht I want, but sometimes the GM has to rule "no, there are no double-crossbows available" or "Fireball under water is a silly idea, but it works like that"

kviiri

@Trish I wonder about that fireball under the water rule, though - why is it such a silly idea?

Why don't you simply use the RAW that it does half damage?

Or rather, that everyone underwater has fire resistance.

(important because it doesn't stack with other sources of fire resistance)

Trish

I am physicist... I know an explosion under water is very different... and does not damage through heat but through a pulse-wave.

Magician

Ah, but fireball may or may not be an explosion. There's no concussive effects, after all.

Trish

If it wouldn't make many mages entirely unguarded, I would even go so far to rule "no fire under water"

kviiri

But magic.

Trish

12:14 PM

In The Dark Eye there is actually a rule for that: you can't cast the fire spells under water, and the water variant of them becomses the ice variant when cast in a surrounding that is as cold as the hell (ca. -100°C)

kviiri

But I mean, 5e already has a rule that everything underwater is fire resistant. Is that not enough?

Trish

True, but my knowlege of 5e is passing .

which means, I flipped through some relevant chapters of the rules, and found "DM, invent everything for your game" lacking.

kviiri

Heh

I think that's one of 5e's big problems - the GM has to make a lot of rulings but the system offers so little guidance on that.

Magician

Wouldn't advantage/disadvantage handle a large portion of these rulings?

kviiri

many, yes

Trish

12:25 PM

A system that includes "Invent something, then playtest it rigerously" as a hint rule for GMs can't be good.

Magician

As for the Golden Rule, there is undeniable value to keeping the game moving, and figuring out the nitty gritty rules details afterwards if they're still relevant. However, in a system plagued by player-GM antagonism, it acts as a massive shield for bad behavior. Where rules may have offered some impartiality, the Golden Rule lets GM's ego, interpersonal biases, if not outright prejudices, run unchecked.

Trish

@Magician which is a valid critique and the point why some games went away from it

BESW

12:48 PM

@Magician In my experience, it's not a good game rule, but it's often a good table agreement.

Magician

The Golden Ruling

BESW

(Also, doesn't RPG culture generally call it Rule Zero rather than the Golden Rule?)

Magician

I've seen it referenced either way.

BESW

I see "Rule Zero" always used in the "Don't argue with the GM" sense while the Golden Rule is at least as often used to mean "The rules are there for the game, change them when you need to."

(This is supported by a quick search on mainsite, even disregarding Fate posts where the Golden Rule is the official term.)

kviiri

Rule Zero is "the GM always has the final say", the Golden Rule is "Treat others as you would like to be treated", and GM Fiat is the aging Punto our GM drives to the gaming venue.

Magician

12:54 PM

There are different opinions.

BESW

Naturally.

> "After all, in my experience, one [gamer]'s lonely, two's an argument, and three adds up to two bitterly opposed alliances and a splinter group rapidly gaining in popular support."
- A.J. Hall. "Time Shall Not Mend," lightly modified

2

(The original quote is about wizards of the Harry Potter variety.)

Magician

I'm under the impression the original joke was about Scotsmen (or thereabouts), but I can't find it, so maybe not.

BESW

I'm sure it's been used in many contexts.

I prefer to use the one disparaging an entirely fictional group as my baseline.

Magician

Eeh, I give it better than average odds the joke originated as self-deprecation.

Also, gamers are not fictional. I think.

BESW

Most of us are at least wooden puppets who want to be real, but I was referring to the wizards.

SPavel

1:20 PM

Isn't the golden rule "do unto others"?

BESW

In the broader cultural context, yes.

But some sections of the RPG community use it differently.

For example, Fate's Golden Rule is "Decide what you’re trying to accomplish first, then consult the rules to help you do it." (There's a Silver Rule and a Bronze Rule too.)

SPavel

What about the platinum rule - finders keepers losers weepers?

kviiri

2:04 PM

The Golden rule is called Golden rule because gold is flexible. If it was to be interpreted rigidly, it would be the titanium rule.

RobertF

@KorvinStarmast @kviiri @GreySage Regarding 1st level Fighter vs. Commoner having same +2 to-hit bonus: Understood about the Fighter having better Str, Dex bonuses + armor & weapons. But what about 1st level Fighters with the same stats & equipment as a Commoner? Shouldn't the Fighter have some advantage with his or her combat skills?

It's not a huge deal, really - I don't think bumping down Commoners to +0 to-hit will break the game. But I do get the impression there are no longer 1 hp mooks in D&D 5e.

kviiri

@RobertF For one, no adventurer should have that poor stats. And fighter starts with better equipment and proficiencies than the commoner does. They're a part of the class perks.

Adam

@RobertF 1st level fighters in 5e get second wind and a fighting style at level 1. That's a pretty big boon. They also have more average hp than a commoner, even with the same stats

kviiri

"Shouldn't a fighter without their weapons, armor, proficiencies and adventurer-level attributes still be able to beat a commoner" is pretty much asking whether one Fighter who is actually a commoner should be able to beat another commoner.

Sort of like "shouldn't a wizard without magic be able to beat a commoner", I'd even say.

@RobertF Many monsters have practically 1 hp, though. As in, usually die in a single hit.

Adam

2:20 PM

To be honest though, the general vibe I've heard and felt playing 5e for the past few years is that 1st level PCs are effectively commoners who just learned how to swing a sword, or just learned how to cast a few spells, and are heading on their grand adventure. level 3 is typically where they make the transition from "commoner with an upgrade" to "actual representation of that class"

RobertF

Right, but it's not quite the same - drop a naked a 1st level Fighter and a naked Commoner into an arena, all else being the same, the Fighter ought to prevail most of the time. Understood about the Second Wind & perks, but I'd argue in addition a Fighter should have a significant to-hit bonus advantage over a peasant.

kviiri

@Adam Yuh, this is quite close to how I feel too. The first level PCs are very squishy compared to 4e in particular.

@RobertF Well, the fighter is proficient in unarmed melee attacks, while the commoner isn't (as far as I know).

Adam

@RobertF They typically do, since a first level fighter could have as high as an 18 in their primary combat stat, which amounts to a +3 or +4 bonus to hit and damage, which is quite significant.

kviiri

Yeah, that too.

Be back later tonight, see ya

Adam

If they are a dex-fighter instead of a str fighter, their AC will be 3-4 points higher than the commoner, and get their advantage in the fight that way

@kviiri take care!

RobertF

2:34 PM

@kviiri Good pt

@Adam I see what you're saying - through a roundabout way D&D gets to the same place: Fighter beats Commoner because Fighters have better Str & Dex stats than a Commoner. Just seems it would be more straightforward to rule that a 1st level Fighter has received some minimal training or experience in combat vs. commoners and gets a better to-hit.

Adam

@RobertF That's fair. And giving a commoner a +0 to hit wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to model that, if you really wanted to.

Trish

3:56 PM

@doppelspooker while I prefer quotation sources to be noted in <sup></sup> at the end of the paragraph, I cna live with the rework.

The Oracle

4:06 PM

0

Q: Reopen "How can I balance adventures around one of the party members being a monarch?"

The question: How can I balance adventures around one of the party members being a monarch? On RPG stack exchange the question was held for being too broad, but I edited it so it would be asking a more concrete question. It was edited within a day or so of the hold, but I think nobody got around...

doppelspooker

@Trish i mainly frontloaded mentions of the games because it felt more natural to say: "this game said this thing" rather than dump a quote with a low-emphasis source

Trish

@doppelspooker which is why I am ok with it in this case - it's like "Braun says .... Meyer says ...." in a scientific essay.

doppelspooker

@Trish yeah. :)

Trish

"how to quote" is a topic that can fll books XD

Trish

4:26 PM

The Stack Hivemind is Glorious! especially since we got veterans from the beginning of our hobby.

doppelspooker

@Trish opening chapter: "How to quote this book." very short: "Well, don't, until you've finished reading it." Closing chapter: "How to quote this book." "You should know by now."

Trish

no, actually I could throw an A4 pamhlet of 40 pages at people that is titled "How to quote in german history sciences".

which is different from other sciences as each science has its own quotation style.

doppelspooker

whoa, that's rigorous

GreySage

6:32 PM

Where can I go to get an opinion on a homebrew DnD 5e monster?

NautArch

i can attempt

i mean, i can give an opinion, but the validity of said opinion may be questionnable at best

Yuuki

And for me, the validity of my opinion will be inversely proportional to how awesome the monster sounds.

"It's a T-Rex that has a sword for a tail that it can light on fire by biting it? Approved, I don't need to see the statblock." - Me, probably

ACuriousMind

@Trish These days, the main quotation style in physics seems to be "use whatever LaTeX's preset is" :P

Yuuki

MHX:Ecologia Dinovaldo

►

Monster Hunter has some of the best monsters and I love adapting them for D&D.

GreySage

6:52 PM

@Yuuki High level view: It's a monster with 80hp that splits into 2 smaller monsters at <40hp, each with half the remaining total.

Each smaller monster splits into 2 even smaller monsters when killed. The smallest monsters basically just explode for damage

Yuuki

Awww, why didn't you go with Zeno's Paradox?

GreySage

No, they don't infinitely split and replicate

My main concern is balancing the damage/round and how hard it will be to defeat, since it uses some interesting mechanics.

Yuuki

So they'll split 6 times before exploding stage.

GreySage

Short version: It is CR5, resistance to everything EXCEPT weapons found in the dungeon (which are all either "normal" weapons or possibly +1, haven't decided yet.

@Yuuki 1 splits into 2, they each split into 2 more, so 7 monsters total, but no more than 4 at once

Yuuki

Which means you'll end up with about 64 exploding bits.

GreySage

6:56 PM

@Yuuki how did you get 6 and 64?

Yuuki

Starts at 80, each stage splits at half health.

log(80) / log (2) is about 6, give or take.

I'm assuming by "smallest monsters", you meant "1 HP".

Since each one splits in two, 2^6 gives you 64.

GreySage

Currently only the 1st one splits at half health, the 2nd stage monsters only split when killed. And pretty much 1hp yeah

Yuuki

When they split, the resulting two monsters each have half of the previous stage's max health though, right?

GreySage

@Yuuki half the previous stage current health, so if you hit the 1st stage and bring it down to 36hp, each 2nd stage will have 18hp

Yuuki

So there's only two splits?

One big monster, two smaller halves, and then 4 explodey bits?

GreySage

7:05 PM

@Yuuki Thats the current plan. I think creating too many splits will become challenging to run

Yuuki

Yeah, I was about to tell you to tone it down a bit.

How are you going to handle initiative for the split monsters?

GreySage

@Yuuki I was thinking keep the same initiative as the parent. The whole group also has a "lair action" is uses on Init count 20 each turn.

Do you think I should re-roll or just offset one of them?

Yuuki

I've personally never been a big fan of all the monsters taking their turns at the same time.

But that's my own personal opinion, I know some people prefer it that way.

GreySage

So far I've been rolling initiative for each monster, which somehow ends up with all my monsters going together AFTER all the PCs.

The current group has killed a couple bosses before they even had a chance to act :(

Yuuki

Hmm... maybe you're making the mobs too squishy? Low AC or low health or combination of the two?

Alternately, what's the party composition? They could have a range advantage over the enemies you're sending at them.

GreySage

7:14 PM

@Yuuki Barb (does most of the damage), Fighter, Rogue, Druid, Warlock. They've been very successful mostly due to good tactics, they sneak in and rush the enemies, and bizarrely good initiative rolls.

@Yuuki So far I've been using all standard monsters listed in the module (Lost Mine of Phandelver).

Yuuki

Hmm... maybe you need better sentries?

GreySage

@Yuuki I've been following the module. After the next session or 2 we will finish the module and into homebrew territory, so I'll try to include some.

(This specific boss monster is at the end of a 5roomdungeon, and won't be possible to surprise due to various circumstances)

Trish

7:38 PM

@ACuriousMind history has its own riles...

inthemanual

8:32 PM

does the dice roller support fate dice?

NautArch

@GreySage we mostly do monster initiative and it's been fine - but i can see the danger. what's the AC on this thing?

GreySage

@NautArch AC12, then 13, then 15 for 1st/2nd/3rd generation. It takes half damage from everything except mundane weapons pretty much.

NautArch

will they have an opportunity to learn that prior or a way to findout during?

what level are the PCs?

GreySage

@NautArch Yes

@NautArch 4

NautArch

8:48 PM

what kind of damage does it do?

GreySage

2x 2d6 in a 5ft aoe, 5d6 30ft aoe -> 3d6 single target, 3d8 to 2 targets ->3d6 or 2d6 aoe damage when it explodes

With an extra 3d6 single target every turn, and 1d4 as a reaction

Based on my estimate damage per round, it is a little high for a CR4, but its defense is low, even accounting for the resistance to magic.

NautArch

9:04 PM

it's going to be a very tough fight at first glance. Their HP goes down with each split, but their action economy rises.

think of it like enemy waves, but each wave increases in damage output, but decreases in HP.

GreySage

@NautArch But each actions damage also goes down with each wave. Compare "Force Slam", 2d6 which will probably hit 2 people, which it can use twice each turn. 6 to 8d6 damage, vs 2 creatures doing 3d6, or 3d8 (but this also damages the user)

Looking at it now, that 3d8 should probably be 3d6

NautArch

ah, i missed that

GreySage

If anything I think the 1st stage will kill someone. I'm not too worries about the later stages

NautArch

it's sort of waves of ever decreasing meat bags

if your group has high damage output, they can clear them out, but if they dno't, it'll be a looong day

i dno't think the first stage will kill them

RobertF

9:21 PM

I see GURPS is available on DriveThruRPG now - but the prices seem a bit high.

BESW

11:09 PM

So long as a PDF isn't more expensive than the physical book, I'm not in a position to complain about prices. Most RPGs are priced below the ability to pay all their creators minimum wage for their hours, already, regardless of medium.

kviiri

The curse of hobby scenes mainly advanced by passionate hobbyists.

A friend had the same problem with e-sports - he's one of the few locals in the intersection of "knowledgeable in e-sports" and "good presenter". But it was hard to get paid gigs at first because you could always get some enthusiast to speak for free (even if the presentation was worse).

BESW

The RPG-creator part of Twitter is, for the last few days, talking very candidly about costs and profits.

Our Patreon, which creates (largely) only digital output, just barely covers the costs (writing, editing, development, artwork) of one of our Worlds while providing a little over $3k per release, and that’s with layout & art direction costing us $0 extra thanks to salaried Hats. https://twitter.com/adamjury/status/931221495728230400

Tweeted by fredhicks on November 16, 2017 at 6:56 PM

@fredhicks Yeah, we have a payroll of nearly $10K per month covering our Patreons - writers, editors, artists, layout, art director, etc. That stuff doesn’t make itself!

Tweeted by Morrus on November 16, 2017 at 7:29 PM in reply to fredhicks

kviiri

11:34 PM

Yeah, it's expensive business, like a lot of creative work.

Quality doesn't happen by chance!

BESW

They're also talking a lot about how distribution priorities are changing--a lot of games are getting limited or no print runs at all, for example, or they're print-on-demand which is a completely different ballgame.

Shalvenay

hey there @inthemanual

inthemanual

@Shalvenay hey

Shalvenay

how're things going?

inthemanual

at work

so workly

Shalvenay

11:42 PM

ah

hopefully we can get the folks together tonight to pick up where we left off...

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