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00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 00:00

1:00 PM
Also, some of their good solutions are only good in theory. For instance, they removed the many diferent procedures for combat maneuvers and replaced them with a single one, with bad math.
 
Sadly, the Pathfinder developers have some Very Strong Opinions about How To Play Their Game, and there's a culture on Paizo forums and in some groups which will mock and ridicule certain playstyles.
 
@BESW Oh, dear... that doesn't sound promising...
 
So Pathfinder culture splits into those who agree with the developers and have an active relationship with the company... and those who don't, and just buy the books to do their own thing with their heads hunkered down.
 
Problem is, the rules don't work toward playing their game that way
 
There isn't really a sense that the game belongs to the players.
 
1:02 PM
@Zachiel Which way?
 
This is one reason Gareth finds PFS so distasteful: it's an Official Paizo Playdate, so you gotta Play The Paizo Way. Mach schnell!
 
they like the characters to be built in a really "because it would do so" way, as opposed to munchkinism and power gaming, AFAIK
 
Zach's right. Just like 3.5, Pathfinder is an optimizer's game.
 
(I don't really know much about it, it's second hand information)
 
But the devs don't want it to be one, so they mock anyone who tries to use the rules to achieve superior mechanical builds.
 
1:04 PM
The devs strongly believe it's not needed to be an efficient character to have fun, and if you're not having fun because you're not strong, then you know nothing about what roleplaying is about
(which is one of my problems in the famous site I'm in)
 
There's a common dichotomy one runs into in RPG culture: that "role-play" and "roll-play" are not compatible, and the only way to role-play is to actively shun mechanical achievement.
Paizo seems to have drunk the kool-aid on that one.
 
or, like in my case, that to be both a roll player and a role player you need some untrainable skills
 
Sadly, their (adopted) system is designed from the roots up to reward mechanical achievement through rules exploitation.
 
going afk
 
@Lord_Gareth Should we have a tag?
 
1:07 PM
@JonathanHobbs [ducks for cover]
 
Plus it's something someone can be an expert in right?
 
Yeah, it seems reasonable.
 
@BESW Well, to be fair, D&D and derivatives have always had an unspoken culture of encouraging min-maxing. It was the only way to do tabletops for a while, until games started to realize that an entire game could be played just with the "roles" rather than the "rolls".
All the numbers and stat bonuses you can stack and such... it was for the crunchy types.
 
Now, Wizards' income from 4e is waning and they see an RPG culture that is increasingly turning toward specialized niche systems which cater to the specific game experience desires of a group, rather than sprawling RPGs which try to accommodate a wide variety of game experiences.
 
I still can't grasp THAC0, because I'm horrible with math.
 
1:10 PM
Hasbro's breathing down the necks of the Coastal Wizards, and they need to get Paizo's customers back.
 
One thing I'm kind of wondering; why hasn't Hasbro/WotC tried to jump on the "Magic: the Gathering" expansion into an RPG, possibly even as a D&D setting?
 
So they're designing D&D Next, a system they hope to make so boringly generic at its core that you can snap on groups of modules to customize your own game experience inspired by whichever edition or set of editions you preferred.
 
Gmornin
 
@Aaron Hi.
 
@Aaron Zhallo!
@BESW So that's what this D&D Next thing is!
 
1:13 PM
@ProfessorLokiCaprion Yup. It's an attempt to create a generic D&D armature onto which players can sculpt their own version of the game, in an attempt to please everyone at once and call people back from the various other RPG systems they've started using because D&D doesn't meet their needs anymore.
 
Like Pathfinder.
 
@BESW My specific needs are fully met by Fate; I really think every game I run henceforth will be using it.
 
@ProfessorLokiCaprion Try this article.
 
i dun made a tag
 
Oh @BESW did you like that image I posted?
 
1:14 PM
@Aaron I'm not sure why they're in costume at the table, but yes.
 
i'll err on the side of "sure what could go wrong with this" and if something goes wrong it can be nuked
 
@BESW Some DND groups do that. They act in character at the table and dress up ect. It's like a cross of LARP and DND
 
Mmm. I would sometimes bring a prop.
As GM I'd often have things to hand them--by the end of a campaign we'd have a binder of crumpled notes and things.
As a player, less so.
 
This was my first exposure to DND. lol
2
 
1:18 PM
Oooh, T2CB just got a new follower.
@Aaron That seems traumatic.
 
@BESW It cracked me up. I though it was hilarious.
 
@BESW Ah, thank you! Funny, I have some Dreamblade figures.
 
@Aaron Kids these days.
 
So it sounds like the MTG/D&D crossing never happened due to totally internal issues!
 
@BESW I'll admit I had a very odd sense of humor.
 
1:27 PM
Sigh. Just flagged three comments that were using the comment feature to answer a closed question.
It's not a loophole, people!
[lectures people who never come to chat]
@ProfessorLokiCaprion Anything I'm missing from the Recent History of D&D lecture?
 
@BESW I think you covered it!
We'll see how my return to numbers-based games goes, tonight.
 
Oh, Essentials.
 
To be fair; A Song of Ice and Fire may be numbers-based, but my character hardly ever has to roll dice.
I'm vaguely aware of some numbers on my sheet.
 
4e Essentials is basically the same deal as 3.5: partway through the edition's lifespan they wanted to implement some relatively major changes.
And it's worth mentioning that some of the later 3.5 splat (especially "Tome of Battle") is obviously early experiments in 4e-like mechanics and philosophies.
On the other hand, 4e's content just sort of fizzled out.
With 4e it felt like the 3.5 designers were champing at the bit to do something new, and were already experimenting in 3.5.
But with D&D Next it feels like they just got bored with 4e and wanted to try something else, but they didn't know what.
 
@ProfessorLokiCaprion I'ma go ahead and state that this is not accurate. And besides, min-maxing isn't the poster's problem; it's having a concept that simply will not work.
@JonathanHobbs - A Pathfinder Society tag might not be bad, considering that it's a highly specific playstyle and known set of rules/houserule that crops up a lot.
 
1:36 PM
@Lord_Gareth Oh, I wasn't making my comment on that one question; just in general. And it's really just my viewpoint from my experiences.
 
D&D and Pathfinder are not easy systems in which to explore bucking the trends their mechanics enforce.
 
@BESW It would be easier if they said something like: D&D 4.5: ESSENTIALS; THIS IS A TOTALLY MAJOR RULES CHANGE GUYS AND SO VERY NOT THE SAME THING HERE'S A TON OF ADVICE ON MIXING THIS WITH THE BASE GAME BUT SERIOUSLY DON'T DO IT or something
3
 
@JonathanHobbs Well, yes.
But the Wonderful Wizzes are allergic to that.
 
Yeah they were all like
<_< >_> <_<
hey y'all folks want a new bunch o' classes
we got a bunch o' new classes you wanna take a look?
what do you mean those powers no it's totes the same thing go play that berserker alongside a barbarian <_>
y'all have fun now
"hey why's this guy got like one third the powers of his barbarian"
[shouts from the distance] FEATURES
3
 
"And what's with the sudden obsession with basic attacks? I thought those were, like, the Microsoft Bob of powers and now they're awesome."
3
 
"guys there's a 4e feat here that lets me change my basic attack to eyebite so i hope you like getting hit by monsters whilst i be awesome at the same time as being invisible"
 
Heh. I still love my player's build that combined Eyebite with Divine Challenge.
 
Eyebite is a real thing?!
 
@ProfessorLokiCaprion Warlock at-will power, ranged, deals psychic damage and makes you invisible to your target for one round.
 
And Divine Challenge means they can't really hit anyone but you without being hurt, right?
Or does it mean they have to hit you or be hurt, I can't remember
 
1:46 PM
@JonathanHobbs yep
 
@JonathanHobbs Right. You mark them, and any attack that doesn't include you deals damage to them.
 
(and carries a -2 penalty)
 
Divine Challenge ends at the end of any of your turns in which you didn't attack the guy or end your turn next to him.
Since Eyebite only lasts one round... you're spamming that on 'em.
 
And once or twice in the encounter they will actually see you for one round, and then you'll wink away again.
 
The best solution if you're targeted by an Eyebite/DC combo is to run away and find cover for a round so DC falls off you.
@JonathanHobbs Yes, because you're a feylock, better called a trolllock.
Winking away is how you do.
 
1:49 PM
@BESW and considering the pace of 4e combat, you'll step out to see a full party of blades and arrows pointed at you, a clever guy will say "Hi!", and then you say "Oh" and cut scene.
@BESW it's making me laugh that you said that and i like it
 
I spent twelve levels dealing with a teleport-spamming, invisible, mind-controlling feylock with multiclass access to Divine Challenge.
He was the living embodiment of "neener, neener."
 
@BESW how did he get it more than 1/encounter?
 
@waxeagle Both are at will
 
@JonathanHobbs Multiclass DC is 1/encounter.
 
@BESW What really?
Oh. You'd only need it once per encounter actually.
'cuz you just... pick your guy, and attack him every single round.
 
1:53 PM
He just had to choose his target properly.
 
@JonathanHobbs yeah I just realized that
 
This is why the best solution was to run and hide.
 
@BESW Nice.
 
don't even have to attack him, just stand next to him
 
If you could get away effectively enough that the 'lock couldn't target you or end his turn next to you just once, his DC was gone.
 
1:54 PM
he can't see you, so it's not like he can make an opportunity attack...
 
@waxeagle Exactly.
Stand next to you, and use his AoE mind control dailies to get all your friends to attack each other. With ranged attacks. While standing next to his friends, for the opportunity attacks.
 
if he hides he's unattackable, but he doesn't need to hide, you've got a -5 to hit him, -2 to hit his friends...monsters with bursts and blasts become your friends...but then he just steps away and attacks you from range...very nice setup
 
He had a side specialty in amusing teleport gimmicks.
 
@BESW very fun :)
 
By level 14 he could get the entire party through a keyhole.
He had a necklace of feather fall in anticipation of Stupid Teleport Tricks.
 
1:59 PM
@BESW Is that a metaphorical comment like how Mal says Wash can thread Serenity through the eye of a needle, or does that have some degree of literal truth
 
naturallly
 
@JonathanHobbs Oh, quite literal.
 
@JonathanHobbs that would be literally true
 
(Idiomatic? w/e)
 
LOS is all that's needed for teleport, a keyhole provides that
 
2:00 PM
He had "take a guy for a ride" teleports, and "force a guy to teleport," and "switch places with a guy" teleports...
One common strategy was for the 'lock to run in first, aggro everyone, do a close burst AoE and then swap places with the (much slower) fighter who had been standing behind everyone else.
The fighter would then do a small AoE to mark everyone who'd been gathered around the squishy 'lock.
And this was the fighter whose every attack pushed at least 5 squares, knocked prone, and slowed.
It was like watching a terribly bloody circle dance.
 
@BESW (1) Force teleport someone through keyhole. (2) Take a ride with someone through keyhole. (3) Switch places with someone on the other side of keyhole. (4) Take a ride again with the last person. (5) Tell the one with teleportation sickness to get the vomiting over with because he'll feel better once he's gotten it over and done with. y/n?
 
@JonathanHobbs Something like that, yes.
 
@BESW Nice.
 
But with more vomiting and falling over.
This is Trogdor's tiefling, by the way.
 
@trogdor i am a fan of your work
 
2:11 PM
The guy who was a desk jockey for the tiefling CIA before getting so dissatisfied that he made a pledge to an eladrin queen in a dream to get the powers he needed to sneak out with the latest invasion plans so he could defect to the enemy.
(This is all his pre-start-of-game backstory; the campaign started with the ragtag team of expendables assigned to chaperone him on a mission to confirm his intelligence was genuine.)
New hat!
 
@BESW Hats!
 
I need more hats!!
... is this what it's like to play Team Fortress?
 
@ProfessorLokiCaprion Hats!!!
@ProfessorLokiCaprion There's more shooting but yes
 
@JonathanHobbs Only slightly more!
 
> Team Fortress 2 is the most realistic hat simulator created to date. There is absolutely no other simulator quite like this one. The first time you start the simulator, you join a server where you can play a minigame where you show off your hats and items.
2
> If you kill a person three times in a row in the minigame, you get your very first hat: the Gibus. This is where it really starts; To play the simulator correctly, you have to spend money in the market place, made by Valve. After that, while you play the minigame, you can find hats which you can trade for, or collect!
> There is many other people who wants to collect and trade hats, just like you! After you collect enough items and/or hats, try joining a trade server! There, the REAL fun begins! Good luck, and beware of ending up poor!
 
2:18 PM
XD
 
Haha! Sounds about right
 
Isn't team fortress that game that had a lot of really funny glitches?
 
@Aaron It probably did!
 
user image
5
 
2:45 PM
I'm going against long-ingrained traditions here, and instead taking the cool backstory for my character (and the relevant thoughts of the setting and its metaphysics) and keeping it to myself, I'm sharing it with the rest of the party before the campaign starts.
It's hard.
But it's the right think to do. Instead of sitting on my cool ideas and hoping to bring them up in play, I should share them, let others add to them, and thus make sure they come up in play, because they're interesting to everyone.
 
@lisardggY that's a good idea IMO, even if it's not character knowledge, it helps everyone else have the details needed to tell the story along with you and the DM
 
Goes against everything I grew up on. :)
 
@lisardggY exactamente
 
Even though my Fate game never really got off the ground, I feel I've learned a lot from the game.
 
@lisardggY I do both and I think in tabletop games it works the best to take the approach of having the other players in on your character's background.
 
2:49 PM
(I never retweet ads on twitter, but Newcastle's suggestion of giving a holiday 3 pack as a gift this holiday season was worthy of one. I am totally on board with this)
 
(Plus, you get to gush about it!)
 
It really put in the forefront ideas I've always tried to play by - explaining how my character's goals aren't necessary my goals, as the player.
 
It's really handy to have everyone at the table clued in on where the DM/players are going with a plot.
 
@Aaron Stjepan Sejic <3
 
3:15 PM
@Zachiel ?
 
 
1 hour later…
4:21 PM
Hello, all.
 
hiya judge
 
4:42 PM
[Runs through whilst on fire]
 
careful around the drapes...
 
[sprays water everywhere after prof]
[somehow misses]
2
 
Hands cup of tea to @waxeagle watching @Metool chase the @ProfessorLokiCaprion with water. "A good day yes?"
 
@Aaron indeed, not very productive so far, but I'm hoping to change that this afternoon so I don't really have anything to do tomorrow and can play with cleric builds all day
 
@waxeagle "Good Good" Goes back to sipping tea while watching Prof catch everything on fire and burn the place down.
 
4:50 PM
I have to work on our outfacing career center today. It's one of the things I had the biggest hand in designing/writing/working on. and It's the single feature I hate the most
always fun when a troll makes it into print: cah.tumblr.com/post/70443478420/…
(or better, when the trolled enjoys being trolled)
 
[Happily sets most things ablaze!]
 
5:09 PM
anyone working on the CAH puzzle?
 
Hum?
 
@waxeagle What's this, now? If it's CAH, I'm interested!
 
@ProfessorLokiCaprion if you signed up for their Holiday BS promotion, there was an insert in day one indicating that there was a puzzle
people are trying to figure out what iti s
This is um...probably NSFW
 
@waxeagle I wish I could have signed up for that in time! :(
 
@ProfessorLokiCaprion they've said you can still play the puzzle if you haven't signed up
though the puzzle thingy indicated that you shouldn't throw away anything they've sent
 
5:19 PM
@waxeagle They are tricksy. Did I tell you about what I found in the Bigger, Blacker Box?
 
@ProfessorLokiCaprion was it the biggest and blackest?
 
@waxeagle YES!
When my wife took a knife to the inner lid I started to freak out a bit.
 
still haven't picked that or ex 4 up yet
 
So these things... are they sending one card a day with these names? Like there's a "Conspicuous Consumption" and "Lump of Coal" card?
I can't load the videos at work, but the site itself works.
 
@ProfessorLokiCaprion some days it's card sets, other days have been...other things
like day 2 was a lump (or...rather...several bits) of coal
day 4 is a game whose name I can't repeat in this room.
we've gotten days 1-3 so far
 
5:22 PM
@waxeagle I saw that, and kinda wanna play that game.
rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/30929/… This is actually tough; I allow players to do the OPPOSITE and roll if their characters are smarter than they are... but what about the opposite?
Hell, I gave my opinion, anyway.
 
heh, we actually got through a section of TOH because our barb made an int check
 
5:38 PM
Oh, the Tomb of Horrors...
 
@ProfessorLokiCaprion this isn't a particularly bad version, it's actually meant to be a part of a larger campaign rather than a one off
 
5:55 PM
I got a new hat that is a secret hat and I have no idea why I got it!
Chuck Yeager? [Googles]
First pilot to travel faster than sound...
 
Makes sense.
 
@ProfessorLokiCaprion it's something about speed of answering, it's not too hard to get if you're the first answer
 
Ah! :D
I am SPEED ANSWERER!
2
(When I'm paying attention and I actually know something on the topic)
((Which is rare))
(((Unlike my nested parenthesis)))
Okay, off to see my doctor!
 
6:38 PM
(anyone else still missing the winter is coming hat?)
 
It's only Dec. 19th.
 
I already got it :P, it's 12/20 somewhere
 
What? No hats?
Come on...
 
My hat kinda swallows poor Acheron.
 
7:22 PM
thinkgeek.com/product/173a/?cpg=fb something tells me this isn't going to roll very consistently
 
It'll probably melt, break, blah.
 
@waxeagle Hehehe I like the int check
 
 
1 hour later…
8:53 PM
All has grown silent now is the time to strike!
1d20
 
Haha beat that sneak roll!
 
d20 for perception
d20
 
damn
 
8:56 PM
@waxeagle Has fallen to my blade! Muhahaha.
 
new oots
 
New what?
 
@waxeagle Ah.
 
9:18 PM
if anyone plays the vidja games
steam sale live, now
 
9:31 PM
Hello @Jadasc
 
10:10 PM
New hat!
 
10:26 PM
@JoshuaAslanSmith Thank you!
 
 
1 hour later…
11:29 PM
@BESW Hats! \o/
You are a defender of the realms!
 
[strut]
Hah! My Digger Omnibus finally shipped out.
 
Oh, apparently I got starred in chat.
 
It was one of the very last to be shipped.
Grats!
 
it would be nice to have a "Summer is Coming" hat (goggles maybe?) available to people in the southern hemisphere
 
Wow, hats take some time to load.
 
11:48 PM
Quality millinery is worth waiting for.
 
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