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1:16 AM
Hi, please help me if you have a time, thank you, superuser.com/questions/1237122/…
@Unknown123 Please be patient - 20 minutes isn't long enough for good answers to be researched and written :)
Fortunately, most questions are answered nicely within a few days
@BenN Aye aye sir! hehe
Additionally, we suggest not drawing attention to questions by posting them in chat unless they require real-time troubleshooting - there are a lot of questions! - but there are things you can do to get eyes on it
@BenN My bad, you're right, I have two questions last year and nobody answers, but I fixed it, little bad experience, thank you very much for your suggestions ;smile;
No problem :)
Oh hey, it made an actually inspirational one:
1:49 AM
My flashlight was smashed in an altercation. It still turns on. ūüėĮ
2:07 AM
Intel screwing users over again.
@evancjensen @intel NoÔľĆCoffee Lake CPU is not compatibilble with 200 series motherboards.
As Intel prepares to launch its first mainstream 6C/12T processors, enthusiasts have been hoping that these Coffee Lake processors will work in their existing Z270 boards. Apparently, this won't be the case.
What a bummer, and yet another reason to pick Ryzen instead.
@ASRockInfo @evancjensen @intel @IntelGaming WTF Intel? Are you intentionally trying to drive your customers away?… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/892766836214779904
Obviously, users are furious over this decision.
@ASRockInfo @evancjensen @intel By by @intel , hello @AMDRyzen
@ASRockInfo @evancjensen @intel and intel is making another mistake... same socket but another chipset? that makes no sense.
@ASRockInfo @evancjensen @intel Guess im switching to RYZEN then, @intel are a joke
Why can't Intel support their sockets for more than two processor generations? This is a very dumb move.
@bwDraco Alternatively, you could wait for an official announcement rather than reading a whole story from a <140char tweet.
@Bob I know this isn't truly official, but if a major motherboard manufacturer is saying this, chances are good it's true.
Let's hope Intel is not going down the route of breaking socket compatibility for no good reason.
2:24 AM
It also wouldn't be the first time I've seen a social media manager say something that's either wrong or has been misinterpreted.
Traditional marketing/sales is bad enough.
Wehn you mix in the "social media managers" who often are "someone who knows how to use Facebook and Twitter"...
I'm not ruling out the possibility that this is false.
It oculd mean a socket change. It could mean compat will never happen. It could mean a firmware update is required.
@bwDraco That's also a possibility.
LGA1151-2. Just why does Intel need to do this? headdesk
2:27 AM
Which makes the people claiming Intel is forcing a new chipset on the same socket look rather ridiculous...
It could be product differentiation. It oculd be a real technical requirement.
There's an argument to be made there between catering for upgrades (I'd expect that to be a rather small minority of their customers) vs optimising for the current pair.
I guess we'll see when Gamescom begins in about three weeks from now. That's when Intel is said to announce Coffee Lake.
And I'm saying all this with a Z270 board.
I was expecting it to be Coffeelake compatible.
But at the same time it's not a huge loss that (if?) it isn't - upgrading from Kaby to Coffee would be ... minor.
Some people like their upgrades and cutting-edge. I'd like that too, but ... justifying the $$$, on the CPU alone, is difficult.
For many enthusiasts, going from 4C/8T to 6C/12T is not a trivial upgrade. It's disappointing that replacing the motherboard would be necessary to make the upgrade.
@bwDraco That would still be upgrading for the sake of upgrading for most people.
I don't think I've ever seen 100% utilisation on this machine.
Hm. I take that back. Must've run 7-zip on the backups once or twice.
Though that might've been a year ago, pre-upgrade...
I have workloads that will fully utilize eight hardware threads. Mind you, the software I use for my work as a photographer will easily peg 16 hardware threads.
2:34 AM
@bwDraco The people it would impact most would be those who got a weaker Kaby/Skylake CPU (i3, etc.) expecting to do a big upgrade on Coffeelake.
This is the reason I'm going with Ryzen.
*shrug* I upgrade the platform for the platform more than for the CPU :P
I'd still be alright with the i7-2600. It was the USB controller (and storage controller/lanes/sockets) that made me upgrade.
Most people just upgrade the two together. Most people don't buy individual parts either.
Of the few remaining, they don't upgrade every generation (so fewer would have a Z170/Z270 and want to go Coffee)
Still, remains to be seen if there was a technical reason.
There was talk of them going back to a FIVR. Again, rumors. That would require a board change though... I think?
@bwDraco I'm just waiting for the day we get FTL communications so I can rent a cheap server in the US without the latency issues :D
3:18 AM
\o/ kernel upgrade to 4.11 didn't break things
dosen't intel go new socket every cycle anyway?
@JourneymanGeek It's a bit of a funny situation since this was supposed to be the third of the new cycle.
Anyway, I'm reasonably sure they have a good reason. If it's even happening.
I just don't see someone going "oh let's change the socket to force everyone on Z1xx/Z2xx to upgrade the platform too!"
Lots of people seem to be assuming malice.
Hm. I cna't retore more than a single kvm snapshot after the kernel upgrade... weird.
3:48 AM
@Bob especially since it was a new socket a generation at one point
lol. I'm alright with my ivy bridge core i7 ._.
Actually cannot find a compelling reason to upgrade outside the new shiny stuff
hm, I have one of those frustrating "I can't share enough information to solve a problem" problems
We run our student management system on a access databased, upgraded over the years from 2007 to 2016. Its an unreliable piece of garbage...
so... some systems, with older user accounts (local ones) have MS access runtime crash after login...
but its fine with a new account
actually, I'll ask a question later
4:27 AM
..... turns out our computer lab will have all the PCs stored in a cupboard when not in use...
ugh. ugh ugh uuuuuugh
I just set the damned thing up today...
4:45 AM
Mia happens to have submitted an article submitted by Mia the Superuser user. I couldn't make this stuff up!
@JourneymanGeek ...as in, they're going to lug desktops over to a cupboard?
Are we sure coffee will use a new socket? There has been presedence for the same socket but voltage changes (Pent D and Core Duo)
That was even worst the same motherboard model would be sold but two different revisions would exist one that was compatible and one that wasn't
@Ramhound That's possibly the reason, if they are going the FIVR route.
Wccf tech isn't the most trust worthy source though...
Lots of "rumors" are submitted to that site.
5:01 AM
@Ramhound Ya, I've complained about that before. It's all rumors before the official announcement, anyway.
5:28 AM
@Bob naw laptops
I'm probably going for Coffee lake with hopes of cheaper six cores than with x299 and hopes that I won't have that hell of RAM issues to figure out as with Ryzen.
5:42 AM
@JourneymanGeek I was hoping for laptops, but ... you never know :P
@Seth The first question to ask yourself is "what do I need 6 cores for?". Well, if you care about price anyway.
I need it to have six cores. There probably isn't any good reason. Just maybe that within the next five years game might utilize three to four cores and I'd have something left for other stuff.
It will depend on the pricing whenever I'm really going for six cores or not but I'd definitely like to.
@Bob with my workplace... No, not really
So they're unplugging all the Deskops to store them? What?
@Seth Future-proofing is difficult... especially with something like core count. Multithreading is hard.
There's just as much chance that most games still won't use more than 1.5 cores in 10 years.
OTOH it's possible that 32 cores becomes standard in 10 years.
I wouldn't bet on it, but anything's possible.
It's not really going to be future proof. My Nehalem is just hitting its limits so I'd love to change to a new platform. 2066 is a bit too expensive for my taste so I'll wait for coffee lake and see what they have to offer. If the price difference between four and six core are reasonable I don't see any reason not to opt for six cores. If their lineup is really bad I might consider Ryzen again.
5:56 AM
I wonder what the clock speed tradeoff will be.
@Seth What price difference would you consider reasonable? :P
I'm not entirely sure ... probably something like 50‚ā¨ - 100‚ā¨, though I feel like 100‚ā¨ would be stretching it.
@Seth I suppose it depends on whether they consider it a normal evolution or a special higher tier.
Dammit. I hate new shoes.
Yes and also on what you're willing to spend anyway. Someone going for 2066 is going to have a way different budget in mind already so the "acceptable markup" is different. What would you consider reasonable?
@Seth Well, I paid 500 AUD for the 7700k. That's about as high as I'm willing to go, barring special circumstances.
With any luck, the new top-end parts will end up taking that price bracket and pushing the others down, rather than introducing a new higher price.
I'm not looking to upgrade to Coffee though. There's really no reason to.
Maybe in another 3-4 years I'll look at another platform upgrade. Perhaps with PCIe 4.0?
I'm more a Tea person anyway ;)
6:12 AM
Yeha, it's pretty much what I'm really hoping for, that the six cores take the pricing spot of a 7700k and that four cores get correspondingly cheaper. So a four core CPU would be anywhere between 200-300 and the six core version up to 350. Spending more would require finding a good reason.
6:24 AM
@JourneymanGeek Remember how I had a lot of trouble getting Win98 to work in a VM?
There's a one-click version here, that runs in the browser copy.sh/v86/?profile=windows98
The worst part? It's smoother than the VBox one.
Well, before the dodgy third-party display drivers anyway.
That site is also hosting a Brainfuck Editor ... people actually do something like that?
The original Paint!
6:44 AM
@Seth yes
7:05 AM
Huh. @allquixotic kernel.org used to use Startcom... kernel.org/gandinet-tls-certificates.html
7:22 AM
@allquixotic Beep beep Hurr durr I'ma sheep git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/…
@JourneymanGeek wipe local profile, retry?
@Bob lol now to wait for that apostrophe to break something
7:44 AM
how is the new job?
tis good
slowly getting shown all the various systems etc
8:03 AM
have they changed the way comment flags work?
Q: Drop "not constructive", combine "noisy", reword "rude" and "other" comment flags

Shog9The problem Comments are terrible; no one agrees on what they're for, or how long they should be kept. Comment flags are equally terrible, because if no one's on the same page as far as what should be posted in the first place then no one can agree on what should be removed either. On top of tha...

(I know it's an ungodly hour for me, but I just can't get a good night's sleep.)
It's basically 4 AM here.
@bwDraco cheers
@bwDraco hot milk and a good book
no screens
8:43 AM
odd... you don't get a rep boost for self answering on Server Fault
@Burgi even after accepting?
@djsmiley2k yes
@Burgi yes
@Burgi you don't get it anywhere
@JourneymanGeek pretty certain i got a rep boost of +3 when i accepted my answer on SO
8:50 AM
that's deffo wrong
you probably got a downvote and a upvote on a question ;p
@Burgi Pretty sure you get one
maybe it only occurs over 200 rep or something?
or i am mistaken
Blame caching and check again tomorrow :P
How can I allow an Exchange user to send an email from an address that is assigned to a distribution group?
check the audit.
That explains it
Would have never thought to check the AD directly
9:03 AM
A: Do you get reputation for self-answered questions?

OdedYou can answer your own question - you will get reputation if it gets upvoted (assuming you did not mark it as Community Wiki). There is no time limit for getting reputation for upvotes... I am still getting some rep for posts over 3 years old. You don't gain reputation from accepting your own ...

i was mistaken
T-Mobile wins in every category.
Wow. I still remember the days when T-Mobile's network was crap, when we had to stand next to a window to get a half-decent signal...
i need a tool that takes a cisco access-list, and creates a table showing actual access for hosts.
Today, I have nothing but good things to say about T-Mobile's coverage and performance.
i.e. resolve all the objects back to the base definitions.
didn't t-mobile pull out of the UK?
9:14 AM
@Burgi We're talking about the US here.
actually i think they merged with orange here
With exploding data demand from unlimited data plans, Verizon and AT&T's networks are having trouble keeping up. T-Mobile and Sprint, on the other hand, continued to improve.
@Burgi who then merged into EE
@bwDraco is that due to historically having less users?
Ok weird.... skype for business won't connect, got lync installed and that works fine :/
@djsmiley2k Because people are now using more data than before.
Well, today's "unlimited" plans are not 100% truly unlimited as very high data users may see reduced speeds under congested conditions due to prioritization, but this soft cap is set very high so that only the top few percent of users are affected (it's 32 GB for T-Mobile and 22-23 GB for everyone else). Most users won't see this happening.
but hisortically, do T-Mobile have less users?
as you said yourself, they used to be crap...
9:20 AM
@djsmiley2k Yes. T-Mobile is third in customer count. However, they've been poaching lots of customers from Verizon and AT&T lately. (We switched from AT&T about four months ago and absolutely don't regret it.)
As 4G is great, if the backhaul can take it...
Apr 15 at 15:48, by bwDraco
Oh, and T-Mobile LTE-A is blazingly fast. Got close to 40 Mbps downloading the benchmark software (which is just over 80 MB in size).
This is what I got in a busy part of Brooklyn:
Jul 23 at 19:21, by bwDraco
user image
Apr 29 at 0:57, by bwDraco
I used to have horrendous latency problems, most often in busier parts of Manhattan, while I was on AT&T. Their network suffers from really bad congestion problems in the densest population centers. T-Mobile is generally free of these issues.
@bwDraco consistency and reliability matter more than peak speeds
I can get > 100/30 peak
...in certain locations facing certain directions and presumably when no one else is heavily using it
though my ad-hoc tests are getting better
40/20 inside this random shopping centre
I think I can get 30/5 at home
used to be 10/2
@Bob Their network availability has grown by leaps and bounds over the last couple of years. Just one year ago, T-Mobile users reported bad signals and very slow service in the arena where I covered basketball games as a sports photographer. Today, I get an LTE-A signal there with absolutely no hiccups.
@JourneymanGeek lol. I think he's genuinely confused too :P
9:44 AM
Speaking of confused...
cripes, did people forget free to air antennas THAT fast?
@JourneymanGeek That reads like an April Fools post
I thought it was the onion at first
We were watching OTA TV as recently as last year.
Tomorrow they'll tell us about a device that allows you to record broadcasts onto magnetic tape and then watch them whenever you want!!!
9:51 AM
oh, we killed off analogue OTA transmissions, we still have digital ones
> An antenna was not even on my radar
har de har
hmm, REALLY elaborate troll?
> 28 years old
I mean. how?
Maybe someone 15...
> it doesn't skip
oh, DTV skips plenty
analogue doesn't skip, it just gets fuzzy and unwatchable if it rains
##/wiki Cliff effect
In telecommunications, the (digital) cliff effect or brickwall effect is a sudden loss of digital signal reception. Unlike analog signals, which gradually fade when signal strength decreases or electromagnetic interference or multipath increases, a digital signal provides data which is either perfect or non-existent at the receiving end. It is named for a graph of reception quality versus signal quality, where the digital signal "falls off a cliff" instead of having a gradual rolloff. This is an example of an EXIT chart. The phenomenon is primarily seen in broadcasting, where signal strength is...
10:04 AM
@Bob Make it a set of 48 and I'll be impressed
10:16 AM
Hi guys
Hi guys
I have a '-' in my SQL Script
Sometime instead of '-' I can see special character
any idea
are you copying and pasting from Word?
in my system, SQL is there
but in client server SQL is not there
What does "sometime" mean? What special character?
where are you executing the SQL statement from?
this sounds like a question for Stack Overflow
also which dialect of SQL?
10:20 AM
Yes. but I could not get answer there. People suggested to post here
Hence posted
can you link the existing question?
I did not post in stackoverflow
I posted in chat
post the question on the main site
Thanks @Burgi
Also try answering the follow-up questions to your problem. That is usually very helpful
10:26 AM
@OliverSalzburg sometime means
I dont know in client server might be they opened with the notepad like software
might be the problem is with Unicode
10:38 AM
So you're seeing this character where? In the log files of your server?
no in sql script only
I can see special character
@tHiNk_OuT_oF_bOx's question was not sql in essence
that's the reason I oriented him here
Yes it is not related to sql
I don't understand how someone can be so incredibly vague when asking for help on an issue :P
from the sounds of it it is very SQL related but the question shouldn't be asked in chat at all. it needs to be posted on Stack Overflow with the supporting evidence and research
10:46 AM
@AndyK We will take this discussion there only
Thanks @Burgi for the suggestion
@Burgi I don't have much hope for the result
Thanks @OliverSalzburg
@OliverSalzburg welp
So, the computer I reinstalled windows yesterday. Read went from 96/36 to 149/43, write went from 47/17 to 104/39, boot went from 5 mins to 30 secs, free space went from 200mb to 10gb with same software installed, bloatware went from tens to zero. Usability went from zero to usable.
I want to give a good shake to all OEMs that ship computers with bloatware.
I mean when someone buys your computer and then doesn't use it because it's "too slow", then you should... feel shame.
11:02 AM
@Avery It's probably worth it. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing it
And they make the hardware, they're probably like "If you don't like the software, put your own on it"
If you want someone to care about soft & hard, you need to buy Apple, I guess :(
or the ubuntu xpses
thinking of it, I should've got the license refunded on this pc
@Avery I'm not really up to speed on those, sounds interesting though
@Avery HDD or SSD?
crappy ssd
@Avery eMMC?
11:05 AM
speeds were probably cause it was nearly full
@Avery did it come with that little free space?
more likely it's just a bunch of temp files lying around somewhere :\
MSOffice updates are murder on space-constrained devices
oh right, I checked, mcafee was running and using a bunch of IO and I couldn't kill it
@Bob IDK, it's mom's PC, but it likely came with like 5gb more.
mcafee is vile
CBS logs occasionally fail to rotate and can bloat to >2 GB too. annoying bug.
mcafee is absolutely pain
11:07 AM
@Avery yea uh. antivirus programs tend to do that.
protip: don't install them, and kill them with extreme prejudice
they come preinstalled
especially mcafee, probably due to intel
HP does it as does lenovo
I tend to nuke it on a fresh install
but meh, now the pc has windows 10 enterprise ltsb, Office ProPlus 2016, it is properly telemetry-killed, has vivaldi installed (instead of edge) with ublock, https everywhere, wikiwand and stylish.
should see every needs of mom.
hmm. Is there a legit download for proplus?
Most of what I find's for 365
do you have a license?
11:10 AM
more for when I need to do an install. We kinda have a mismash of installs at work
unless its the same as the 365 installer
if you do, go to setup.office.com , activate it, and download it from office.com/MyAccount
same as the 365 installer then
This is my life
@OliverSalzburg clearly you destroyed its will to live
11:12 AM
that reminds me, I should un-admin her and add my own account, and set up yubikey etc.
Also, I really don't get why microsoft isn't selling something like w10 enterprise ltsb for general public. I swear, it's the only version of windows that doesn't suck.
cause... er
Beats me
@Avery We just got Enterprise for a client. How would you say it's better than Pro? Just because of the update cycle?
@OliverSalzburg and lack of ... anything extra
ltsb is much less bloated
doesn't have metro, doesn't have common forced updates, doesn't have as much telemetry as home/pro, doesn't come with any bloatware preinstalled (stares at candy crush).
11:16 AM
@bwDraco Meh. That CPU is like my entire budget for a workstation :D
@bwDraco That's like a textbook case of how rumors become accepted as fact
"A few days ago, we got to see the full specifications of Intel’s entire Core X family lineup."
"The full specifications of Intel‚Äôs Core X ‚ÄúSkylake-X‚ÄĚ family of high-end desktop processors have leaked out over at Videocardz."
> I received this picture yesterday. Despite my best efforts, I couldn’t confirm if it’s real. Today I’m seeing the same values being posted on Chinese media, except with no slides. So it appears that they might be correct as Intel allegedly released new specs to their partners.
Well, it's an early rumor.
"This might be a leak, or it might be wrong. I couldn't confirm. I did see it in Chinese media. Here it is."
ok, that's alright
wccftech takes it: "It's been leaked!"
...and people wonder why wccftech is considered untrustworthy
So, is there a problem on my end by constantly linking to Wccftech?
naw, just get used to people complaining about it being clickbait ;p
11:20 AM
There seems to have been some confirmation a bit further down, so it's not completely made up this time :P
@bwDraco also. that photo. DON'T HOLD IT LIKE THAT D:<
However, if this is true, Intel will be in trouble. First, Threadripper launches in just one week, and AMD will have a multithreaded performance advantage for two full months. Second, Skylake-X overclocking is thermally limited. If Intel does not correct its mistake of using thermal paste rather than solder, chances are good that it will have trouble delivering a performance advantage large enough to justify being twice as expensive.
*shrug* perhaps
(Ryzen OC is architecturally limited, but is unlikely to run into the same thermal issues because AMD solders the IHS to the dies)
2 months isn't much tbh
anyone who really cares and is willing to spend $2k (!!!) won't mind waiting 2 months
heck it takes a third of that time to get something shipped from US => AU
a PC build is almost never an impilse thing
11:25 AM
I'm still really eager to see benchmarks.
I generally don't make hardware purchasing decisions without an idea of how well it'll perform on my workloads.
someone from anime.se built this, i9-7900x, pretty neat build, tbh: pcpartpicker.com/b/LkJ8TW [also he said that he might upgrade to 7980xe when it comes out so fingers crossed]
I'm hoping I can get my hands on a Ryzen 7 1800X and Crosshair VI Extreme motherboard.
I actually start with a budget then work around it
tho, I must admit, the threadrippers look like they would be a load of fun to build ._.
(rediculously large processors, and oldschool, bolted down heatsinks <3)
Yup. Also, the processor slides into the socket.
Which I like
but I've no idea why I'd want/need that many cores ;p
or all the ram
I'm not really considering the TR4 platform. It's overkill.
8C/16T? Sure, I have workloads that can benefit from the extra cores. 16C/32T? That's pushing it.
but at 8 cores, you could go with a mainstream platform
human eye can only see 24 cores
@JourneymanGeek Yup.
11:38 AM
the difference between AM4 and TR4 is the PCI lanes
do you need a lot of them or not?
Manycore server chips on consumer platforms. What fun times...
Well my builds would be fairly boring
@tereŇ°ko I don't think I need more than the 24 lanes provided by mainstream Ryzen.
then that's your answer
another exception could be if you are a developer, who need to run a whole swarm of VMs
@bwDraco or you can use Intel, because "nobody need more than 8 pci lanes" ... or something like that
No, Intel Z270 allows for 16 PCIe lanes from the CPU and up to 24 more lanes (which may be repurposed for USB, etc.) from the chipset.
11:45 AM
from chipset?
those are doesn't look like based on chipset but on the CPU .. then again, it's X299 chpset and not Z270
@bwDraco comments on this are hilarious
Intel still segments by PCIe lanes. 28 lanes on anything <$999 is disappointing.
TBH, I have no clue what Intel is thinking
AMD enables the full complement of 64 lanes on every Threadripper processor.
"human eye can only see 8 lanes" -intel, probably.
11:51 AM
Threadripper lets you run 3 NVMe SSDs and four-way GPU arrays with ease. That requires 44 lanes at minimum, which you only get with the i9s.
Intel still thinks upselling is a valid strategy. It may make sense if the only competition is yourself, but with AMD casting a shadow over Intel's offerings, I don't this really makes any sense.
Gotta sleep.

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