Root Access

bwDraco

12:19 AM

> Gladiolus: "That was a close one."
Noctis: "Too close for comfort."
Ignis: "I'm comfortable just being alive."

Michael Frank

> Also Noctis: "Maaaaaaan..."

The amount of whining those boys do though...

bwDraco

Also...

Apr 9 at 15:45, by bwDraco

> Ignis: The coeurl acquires charge from particles in the air. If you see it seated on its haunches, stay back.
Prompto: And what if we don't?
[cut to Gladiolus, who is downed by the coeurl's blaster attack]
Ignis: You die.

Bob

12:39 AM

morn

FML Cat

1:36 AM

Even

bwDraco

Nite

Dolphins just won 2-1 after scoring in the bottom of the 9th.

There is nothing quite like being within mere feet of a sports team celebrating when they win.

And being able to capture it, preserving that moment forever.

Even better, with my headphones on playing epic music:

Final Fantasy XV OST - APOCALYPSIS AQUARIUS Extended

►

(this is the Leviathan theme)

bwDraco

2:20 AM

Bottom of 9th inning, score 1-1, man on first. Batter hits ball far into outfield. Runner from first passes second base, and as he approaches third, is signaled by the coach to continue to home plate. Dolphins bench starts to clear as team gets ready to celebrate.

At that moment, I just acted on instinct and threw down my monopod (to which my camera was attached), then ran into the field, racing to get into position for the team gathering to celebrate. And I managed to capture it.

It's stuff like this that makes being a sports photographer so much fun.

allquixotic

@bwDraco nice - was it a home run or just a double so the runner could score from first?

bwDraco

Double.

CSI Baseball vs. USMMA

►

Start from around 1:59:00.

allquixotic

2:38 AM

@bwDraco you in the teal coat? :P

bwDraco

Yes.

Michael Frank

[216.32.180.10] #<[216.32.180.10] #5.0.0 smtp; 5.4.7 - Delivery expired (message too old) [Default] 454-'4.7.0 Connection is not TLS encrypted. Recipient organization requires TLS. [SN1NAM02FT018.eop-nam02.prod.protection.outlook.com]' (delivery attempts: 76)> #SMTP#

This is happening because the sender is bad at security, right?

allquixotic

@MichaelFrank looks like it - if the sender is making a plain unencrypted SMTP connection and the receiver requires TLS, you'd get that sort of message

makes sense

a lot of good email servers require TLS at this point because why would you want your email going over unencrypted connections

Michael Frank

Yea, one of our vendors is having trouble getting email to us and that was part of the bounceback they are receiving.

Bob

4:07 AM

9

A: Is there ever a good reason _not_ to use TLS/SSL?

One other note on this, as I do not see it specified in your question, is that everyone appears to have made the jump to suggest that when you asked about TLS/SSL you were meaning just HTTPS. Since you mention TCP communications you may also be considering the use of TLS/SSL for other application...

user226528

Hola!

Bob

'lo

user226528

Must ask some on Wikipedia to answer this. I remember some of them going batcrap crazy about having to use HTTPS hyperlinks on websites that allowed HTTP too.

user226528

So, eventually, they implemented protocol-relative links: Those who came to English Wikipedia over a HTTP link would see those external links as HTTP. Those who came over HTTPS, on the other hand, left over HTTPS.

allquixotic

4:41 AM

@Bob Eh. But using TLS over the Internet hop mitigates the most likely vector for hostile MITM. Often within a LAN there's going to be a DPI SSL MITM that intentionally breaks TLS anyway, and sends the unencrypted text (or re-encrypts) downstream to the real SMTP server.

TLS over the Internet hop is better than not having that. Sure, "S/mime is better", but almost nobody has a mail client set up to send and receive encrypted email properly

And won't, until it's basically mandated in the Gmail iOS and Android apps and web app

user226528

@allquixotic Actually, I looked for one and didn't find many. When I settled for one, and purchased a digital signature of encryption, I realized the other party (Microsoft) is unwilling to do so.

user226528

5:02 AM

Microsoft to discontinue Office OneNote in favor of the UWP version that comes with Windows 10

user226528

Microsoft Office 2019 kills off OneNote desktop app in favor of Windows 10 version

user226528

Looks like we're looking at a company with suicide mania

Bob

blech

if the UWP version were actually as functional as the desktop version...

but nope

that said, we really need better news sources than the verge, of all places

user226528

@Bob All my news sources are reporting it: Ars Technica, ZDNet, Softpedia, etc. Take a pick.

user226528

How about Microsoft Office blog?

Bob

5:18 AM

@FleetCommand The original announcement looks alright

I find Windows Central also tends to be decent

Ars' article on it looks alright too

user226528

They are all churnalism.

Bob

the verge is just ... generally hit or miss

user226528

5:46 AM

That's ... funny. I just wrote a feedback to Microsoft, enumerating my concerns regarding UWP OneNote. It disappeared. A Microsoft moderator seems to have deleted it.

Ave

@Ave ooh

found a second heatsink

Andy K

7:14 AM

morning

user226528

Hi.

user226528

Any interesting news?

Journeyman Geek

@Ave 0_0

Burgi

8:02 AM

morning

djsmiley2k

Motningh

@FleetCommand Dale Winton died?

That maybe interesting

Burgi

supermarket sweep was brilliant

djsmiley2k

yah

terrible, but brilliant

Burgi

i think that had they moved it to saturday evenings it would still be on tv today

Ramhound

9:50 AM

@FleetCommand - The missing features that are contained within the Desktop version of OneNote are planned to be added to the UWP OneNote by the end of the summer.

@FleetCommand - Even after Office 2019 is released the desktop version of OneNote will continue to function. I would suggest you keep the installer around, Microsoft does indeed like to remove product downloads once a product is discontinued, if you plan to install it after 2025.

Burgi

they are killing off OneNote?

Ramhound

No

user226528

@Burgi The desktop app only.

Ramhound

They are not going to add new features to the desktop version.

djsmiley2k

it sucks anyway lol

Oh ffs

Ramhound

9:53 AM

They are gong to promote and install the UWP version when Office 2019 is released

djsmiley2k

so yesterday I appently had a psu and aerial on my desk for this 4G router

user226528

@Ramhound I wrote a comment for Microsoft detailing my grievances with this so-called UWP app. They censored it.

djsmiley2k

it's completely, utterly disappeared

Now, I know there was an aerial, as for the PSU i'm not sure

user226528

>Very poor support for east Asian and right-to-left languages
>Actively suppresses some special characters like zero-width non-joiner, even if they are copied and pasted. (Same with Sticky Notes.)
>Does not properly sync formatting
>Does not properly preserve formatting
>Lack of regard for very popular non-American standards like the Metric system, A4 papers, day-first dates, east European writing conventions
>Underfeatured in comparison to what we already have.
>Does not save notebooks to disk; only online. Hence, not suitable for business.

user226528

Very funny. My quote both quote-formatted and at the same time showing the > used for quote formatting.

Ramhound

9:57 AM

Based on my research it's my understanding some or most of those features are being worked on for a summer update. The installation issue might not be addressed.

user226528

@Ramhound They said the same thing for the Settings app. After 6 years, look what we have so far.

Ramhound

I almost never use the Control Panel

user226528

But I do use OneNote. Can't afford the same thing that happened to what you don't use happen to what I frequently use.

Ramhound

I don't use the Control Panel because I can do everything I need to use within the Settings application. I never had a problem with OneNote (desktop) to OneNote UWP synching though. Of course most of my time with OneNote was on Windows 8 and any problems I had, was the fact were caused by having multiple versions installed :$

But I can't compare the version I use to the UWP application today.

user226528

Well, I have tried both OneNote versions. I know what I am talking about.

user226528

10:07 AM

And OneNote is orders of magnitude more complex than Settings.

user226528

If they couldn't fully migrate Settings within 6 years, they definitely won't be able to do a sufficient job with OneNote.

Ramhound

10:18 AM

I don't count their effort with Windows 8. They basically had to reengineer all their work with Windows 10 with regards to the Settings application. Doesn't help they keep changing their UWP standard, which I understand, because we are talking about creating an entirely new programming library which Win32 had 20 years.

Why do I have to enjoy my job so much, that recently, I have been going to bed in order to go back to work.

Burgi

O.o

because you've finally gone totally mad?

Ramhound

Which is the reason I am up at this hour

user226528

@Ramhound Windows API was an API that made developers demigods of the PC platform. Universal Windows Platform is an API that enables developers develop mobile crap for PCs. Hence, it failed. We already have an example of a post-Win32 that gained much popularity: .NET Framework.

Ramhound

.NET Framework only made "dll hell" worse

NT

user226528

@Ramhound O.o

user226528

10:21 AM

Do you even know what "DLL hell" is?

Ramhound

Of course I do

I struggled with issues surrounding trying to target earlier versions of .NET in 2009 spent days on issues.

user226528

"Days?"

Ramhound

Some of those issues were solved with recent versions due to those versions being in-place upgrade and with the targeting packs

Configuration options were limited in those cases.

I was limited on what I could and could not do

user226528

"Configuration options"? Seriously, are you talking about .NET Framework?

Ramhound

Yes

user226528

10:25 AM

Right. Then I have conclusive proof for the String Theory and Dark Matter.

Ramhound

I have been working with .NET since before the first Beta in 2001.

I took a small break for a few years to code only in C but that was my only break

Bob

@Ramhound ...what?

2.0 => 3.0 => 3.5 were all in-place upgrades

user226528

And I proved Penrose Conjecture two years ago. I'll receive a Nobel prize for it any day.

user226528

@Bob Not just that. 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, and 3.x all work side-by-side.

user226528

(Also 4.x but he didn't dispute that.)

Bob

10:28 AM

I tend to ignore 1.0 :P

user226528

@Bob Can't blame you.

user226528

I myself ignore all version of Windows Runtime, UAP and UWP.

Ramhound

The transition from 3.0 to 3.5+ was during my 4 years of C programming, but 3.5+ replace the version before it. Different versions are simply targeted within VS.

When I say "in-place" replacements I mean 4.6.2 to 4.7 with Windows 10 1703 to Windows 1709 for instance

or whatever version 1703 had

user226528

> 3.5+ replace the version before it

user226528

No, it doesn't. 2.0, 3.0 and 3.x are delivered inside one package. That's all.

user226528

10:32 AM

Ramhound

1607 had 4.6.2 and 1703 had 4.7

It wasn't 3.5 it was 4.0 that replaced the previous version. Looking at the timeline of versions i misspoke.

user226528

Nothing replaced anything. All versions of .NET Framework work side-by-side.

Ramhound

Does not change the fact I had configuration issues caused by being able to use certain classes on one configuration and not the other.

Bob

@Ramhound 3.0 and 3.5 added libraries to 2.0. Same CLR version, same CIL will run (assuming you aren't using the newer libraries, in which case obviously they need to be available).

user226528

Well, you should have visited this site: stackoverflow.com

Bob

10:36 AM

4.0 did replace the 2.0 branch, yes.

Ramhound

I actually did at the time

Bob

s/replace/supersede/

Ramhound

.NET Framework

.NET Framework (pronounced dot net) is a software framework developed by Microsoft that runs primarily on Microsoft Windows. It includes a large class library named Framework Class Library (FCL) and provides language interoperability (each language can use code written in other languages) across several programming languages. Programs written for .NET Framework execute in a software environment (in contrast to a hardware environment) named Common Language Runtime (CLR), an application virtual machine that provides services such as security, memory management, and exception handling. (As suc...

user226528

!!s/did replace/did supersede/

ChatBot John Cavil

@FleetCommand s/supersede/supersede/ (source)

user226528

10:37 AM

ROFL

ChatBot John Cavil

@FleetCommand 4.0 did supersede the 2.0 branch, yes. (source)

Ramhound

Only useful due to the table

user226528

And somehow I managed to edit to my message while posting a new one.

Ramhound

I am not even sure the reason I am defending myself. Does not change the fact I still have a installation disk to Visual Studio .NET Beta 1

user226528

...or the fact that I have solved Penrose Conjecture, proved the existence of Dark Matter and am about to receive a Nobel Prize.

Ramhound

10:39 AM

....

user226528

(Sarcasm icon)

Ramhound

I see you are trolling me at this point.

user226528

No, you are trolling me on the main topic.

Bob

why is namecheap so slow

Ramhound

How do you figure? I had configuration issues due to having to support multiple versions of .NET all the while having a single executable. Now I won't argue those configuration issues were caused by the limitations I was under, but I did have DLL problems, due to those configuration issues caused by a .NET application loading .NET DLLs

Bob

10:42 AM

@Ramhound actually, now I'm curious. can you be more specific?

obviously loading 4.x won't work on 2.x

but generally loading 2.x on 4.x works alright

user226528

It does?

user226528

I've always assumed the reason they are installed side-by-side is that they are not inter-operable.

Bob

@FleetCommand kiiiiiiinda. mostly dealing with libraries. stackoverflow.com/questions/8864395/…

Generally it's used if you have legacy libraries targeting 2.0 that you need in an app targeting 4.0.

Ramhound

@Bob - Honestly. This was back in 2010-2011. The systems they were on, were a mixture of Windows 7 and Windows XP.

Bob

In theory, you could hack an entire 2.0 app into loading on 4.0 but that's not really worth the trouble.

Ramhound

10:45 AM

I also had to deal with a very ugly COM library

user226528

@Bob Oh, yes. The Paint.net author wrote about this. Now, I remember.

Bob

@Ramhound Ah... that was probably pre-4.0. So you were probably dealing with 1.1 and 2.0. Which ... I don't remember much of but it wasn't as nice as 2.0 with 4.0 AFAIK.

Ramhound

Which when installed by the main application would cause a configuration problems. I had to literally, manually remove all references from the registry, every single time.

Bob

@Ramhound COM is a whole different beast

Ramhound

Exactly I was talking about .Net 3.5 and .NET 2.0 which are installed separately.

user226528

10:46 AM

An ugly beast.

Ramhound

@Bob - I understand that.

Bob

@Ramhound Nup, 3.5 was a set of libraries on top of 2.0. Now, 3.5/3.0/2.0 were separate from 1.1.

user226528

A beast created to deal with C's lack of ability to publish class metadata.

Bob

I don't think it's even possible to have independent 2.0 and 3.5 installs on the same system?

user226528

Bob's right.

Ramhound

10:47 AM

Sorry, lets stick to the CLR versions

Bob

Right. CLR versions. That's 1.0, 1.1, 2.0 and 4.0.

user226528

True.

Bob

As far as the CLR is concerned, .NET 2.0 and 3.5 were the same thing.

Ramhound

I was dealing with 1.1 and 2.0 additionally I might have been dealing with classes that only existed in 3.5 in some cases.

Bob

Yup, that would've been annoying.

user226528

10:48 AM

1.x was more of an experiment. I used Delphi at the time instead.

Bob

@Ramhound I think the general solution was to distribute two different versions of the program and pray they weren't both installed on one system?

Ramhound

If I had targeting packs back then it wouldn't have been a problem

user226528

@Bob No. The solution was to install the desired .NET Framework alongside the app.

Bob

@FleetCommand Interesting that we still see so many Delphi programs even now

user226528

Like I said, it could be installed side-by-side.

user226528

10:50 AM

Act of War: Direct Action was written with Delphi.

Bob

@FleetCommand I think that depended on your application: clickonce (?) wasn't expected to touch system directories or require admin privs

Ramhound

All this discussion, explained, my configuration options were limited. I was questioned that configuration problems, couldn't take days to figure out.

user226528

Back then, we were proud of Delphi's compiler performance, like it was all that mattered. It wasn't.

Bob

could be misremembering though

Ramhound

When you had to deploy a new hdd image that took 3 hours to deploy it takes while to solve a problem.

user226528

10:51 AM

@Bob I don't think you are.

Bob

@Ramhound Well, if you're using 3.5-only classes on older frameworks, ... that's bound to be a mess

can't remember if MS provided backports

I do know they released TPL (4.0) for 3.5.

user226528

@Bob Not mess. Impossible. There was no WPF on older frameworks.

Ramhound

Anyways....

Bob

@FleetCommand I was more thinking of LINQ, e.g. stackoverflow.com/questions/2138/linq-on-the-net-2-0-runtime

user226528

@Bob That too. WPF. WCF. WF. CardSpace. LINQ. Entity Framework. None of them were present on older frameworks.

Bob

10:53 AM

@FleetCommand Yes, not present - which means you were relying on hacks and backports (and possibly licence violations). Or abandoning the idea.

user226528

True. True. License violation.

user226528

And for no reason.

user226528

Just install 3.5.

Ramhound

Can we talk about how much a pain it is to manually create a recursive function in C that navigates a folder in C when you can't use the updated Win32 library because your limited to a particular UI that had not included an updated wrapper that supported 6 year old functions?

(LOL)

user226528

Same CLR.

Bob

10:54 AM

I'm just glad Core's a thing. Now if only it had a GUI framework included.

user226528

Yeah.

Bob

@FleetCommand Yea... I was there a few years ago. me: "are you sure we can't get them to just install 3.5?" boss: "can't do that, gotta support the existing environment"

user226528

@Bob LOL. Yes. I knew boss would say that. So, I didn't tell her I am installing 3.5.

Bob

@Ramhound well, I consider everything in C to be a pain, soooo :P

Ramhound

@Bob - same situation except....Boss: we can expect to do that in 8-16 months when the next deployment is scheduled.

But our deployment of the software would happen before that

So yeah configuration issues due to the platform but whatever

Bob

10:56 AM

I think I eventually got 3.5 though... which is extra fun now because 3.5 no longer comes preinstalled so win10 can't run it -_-

user226528

Windows 10 can have 3.5. Officially too.

Bob

@FleetCommand mhm, but not out of the box without going to enable an additional feature

user226528

Yeah.

user226528

Every time I build a Windows image, I have to enable 3.5 in it.

Bob

a lot of our clients have very risk-averse IT depts so it's hard to convince them to do anything beyond what it comes installed with

if it becomes too difficult the answer is "use Java instead"

user226528

10:59 AM

Well, I AM the IT department head huncho, so...

Bob

I prefer .NET, sooo.

user226528

And I hate Java.

Bob

ditto

user226528

For no rational reason though. It is something that happened during my childhood.

Ramhound

I hate Java due to Netbeans

They have not updated NetBeans to officially support Java 8, let alone 9 or 10, can't use unofficial software (i.e. build it myself). So many things I would love to do but it requires third-party library support or features contained in newer versions.

Yes; I understand you can configure NetBeans to use Java 8, but what it requires to run still requires an older version

user226528

11:04 AM

I was part of a peace group ... which didn't think Oracle was a very peace-loving company.

user226528

We didn't do anything drastic. Just... Java was never appealing.

user226528

So, in a brave retaliatory action against a peace-hating company, ... we never learned Java. We looked elsewhere first and elsewhere was appealing enough.

Ramhound

I have an in-house tool which is very helpful, but it was written as a project in a master's program with 3 people (who worked together) in Java, been meaning to try and port it to C#.

Stupid Crashplan service wasn't even running

I really should restart my machine more, lol

user226528

11:20 AM

Crashplan is a backup service, right?

user226528

I'd better blacklist that too.

Ramhound

Why?

Besides the fact it's written n Java

user226528

You called it "stupid", that's why.

Ramhound

I likely manually stopped the service

user226528

I see.

user226528

11:22 AM

So, it is not "stupid" by default?

Ramhound

I called the service running on my PC stupid because it wasn't running

It normally is

user226528

Good. No need to blacklist it then.

user226528

The other items on the blacklist have committed serious misconducts.

user226528

(Disclaimer: No sarcasm or pun intended.)

Ramhound

Off to work. Today is going to be fun. Deploying and Testing software, and we have skipped our typical cycle of putting it on the test context, due to the defect that exists on the production side (it's a show stopper which only happened once during testing which wasn't reproducible).

Fun!

user226528

11:25 AM

Sarcasm?

Ramhound

With regards to how fun today will be

djsmiley2k

\o/ !!FUN!!

Ramhound

absolutely

user226528

🎉

user226528

🎊

Ramhound

11:27 AM

We found another defect which was caused by trigonometry and their failure to properly port legacy 20 year-old Fortan code to Java, negative values (-1 vs 1), is important when dealing with COS functions :-)

While the code is legacy it was well tested and worked. Sometimes old and trusty is better then new and crappy

user226528

LOL

Journeyman Geek

Didn't crashplan shut down?

user226528

0_)

Ramhound

Crashplan Home was discontinued

The Enterprise service wasn't

Journeyman Geek

ah that's probably what I was thinking of

Ramhound

11:28 AM

The only real difference was Enterprise couldn't backup to other computers.

Which is a feature I didn't use

allquixotic

and Crashplan Home was far cheaper

basically they wanted to make their service more expensive for their customers

so I said fuck them

user226528

You did?

Ramhound

A preliminary $2 a month for the next year is hard to say resist.

Even after that $10/client every month is comparable to other services

Crude...Need to go...That testing is starting in an hour....

user226528

@allquixotic If you wouldn't mind me asking, what backup service are you using now?

Ramhound

I plan to also use Carbonite due to their promotional discount to CrashPlan users. I really need to find a service that supports my NAS :$

Solved my local backup issue, and RAID covers me (configured it to notify me of a disk failure) to a point, but I have no plan for multiple disk failures.

Which hopefully won't happen with the disks I purchased (3-year warranty) NAS drives.

djsmiley2k

11:40 AM

if it's only on your nas, it's not a backup

user226528

Is there a NAS for home?

djsmiley2k

not sure what you mean @FleetCommand ?

user226528

Every NAS unit I know is create for the business environment in mind.

user226528

Is there one that is created with home in mind?

Journeyman Geek

@FleetCommand quite a few

my seagate's a single drive unit that's kinda 'too' simple

@djsmiley2k Actually - I have three seperate copies at home of my backups

;p

user226528

11:46 AM

I once purchased a Toshiba Canvio AeroCast. But I don't think I can call it a NAS.

Ave

oh no

the proliant G5 I want to buy was apparently pulled out directly from DC, drives weren't wiped

and it used to host a CMS apparently

Journeyman Geek

0_0

user226528

I currently use it as an external hard disk drive because its manuals are impossible to find.

Ave

I have very, very devious plans

not devious

devilish?

evil!

user226528

not straightforward; shifty or crooked?

Ave

11:48 AM

hmm nah

those are more about dishonesty I guess

mine is more like "haha I will extract passwords!"

user226528

> "In ways large and small, devious and immature, ingenious and inspiring, she struggled to escape."

Journeyman Geek

ah

Ave

"...then I will not do anything with them because I just learned what happened to a friend of mine"

Burgi

@Ave they should be hashed

Ave

@Burgi unless they used joomla or whatever

one of the major CMSes doesn't hash

and even wordpress uses md5 I believe

which is Very Secure

Burgi

11:50 AM

i can confirm WP does hash

djsmiley2k

@JourneymanGeek So..... if your house burns down you're screwed? :/

@FleetCommand hmmm, depends how you define 'business' vs 'home' usage

Journeyman Geek

@djsmiley2k I'd have other issues then

djsmiley2k

@Ave can confirm, definitely very secure ;D

@JourneymanGeek well sure

but my backups contain wedding photos

and the hardcopy is in the house...

Journeyman Geek

ah

photos are backed up to google photos

djsmiley2k

:)

Journeyman Geek

11:58 AM

this is mostly music (and there's a lo fi copy on google as well) and system backups

Bob

12:17 PM

@Ramhound NB 8 fully supports Java 8 AFAIK and has for years now. NB 9 isn't out yet and possibly won't be for a while.

Burgi

12:47 PM

> In these cases, recordings from the experiment show the babies stared for longer at this inconsistent outcome. Since the infants can’t yet verbalize “What the... ”, this is the best we’ve got.

arstechnica.com/science/2018/03/…

Fabby

1:52 PM

@JourneymanGeek Can you please undelete because of both NAA (because it's unfeasible) mine is best though it has a downvote...

djsmiley2k

@Burgi hehe I remember reading that

Babies stare at weird things tho

bwDraco

2:12 PM

anandtech.com/show/12625/…

Hmm... FFXV for whatever reason stopped loading data while in transit from Wiz Chocobo Post to Hammerhead, resulting in the game getting stuck on a loading screen.

FFXV does sometimes throw a loading screen while moving in the field, but this should be rare as it should only do so if it somehow cannot read the data quickly enough as you move. This should never really happen if the game is installed on an SSD, even if the Regalia is moving at 70+ mph.

Ave

transporting servers is painful

FML Cat

@Bob Eh, but it's still not a good reason not to use it

Bob

@FMLCat true, it's more of a "it doesn't really matter, why bother"

FML Cat

Also a lot of major providers (e.g. Gmail) do make attempts to ensure TLS is used at every hop and even displays warnings to users if it's not used on the whole path when it's expected to

Bob

depends on your threat profile I guess

FML Cat

2:24 PM

@Bob That's what I used to say about the whole HTTPS-everything movement

Bob

@FMLCat 'cept that covers client to server, no?

I mean. I can see why TLS between MTAs can help. But it's not as much as, say, HTTPS.

FML Cat

@Bob And how many internet-facing servers these days are the ultimate source of all data used in the production of a web page?

(Hint: On any large-scale site, none)

(HTTPS is no guarantee of security of your data between the front-end/web facing server and whatever it's caching/transparent proxying for, or its connections to various back-ends, databases, load balancers, etc. etc. etc. I continue to be shocked by the extreme lack of security "behind the scenes"... etcd for example)

ToxicFrog

\nsa{SSL added and removed here :-)}

FML Cat

Mar 23 at 15:28, by FML Cat

> etcd, [is] type of database that computing clusters and other types of networks use to store and distribute passwords and configuration settings needed by various servers and applications.
etcd comes with a programming interface that responds to simple queries that by default return administrative login credentials without first requiring authentication. The passwords, encryption keys, and other forms of credentials are used to access MySQL and PostgreSQL databases, content management systems, and other types of production servers.

I mean c'mon. Sure you can secure the client to server connection with TLS but then who's to say some retarded admin didn't leave the server next to it with its etcd port open to the internet letting anyone query it for the admin passwords to the whole cluster and grab your data that way?

Ave

@FMLCat Obviously you didn't deal with a country that loves to spy on everything, ban sites and arrest people who view stuff the govt doesn't like

https is important.

of course security behind the scenes is important too

but just because one aspect of security is bad doesn't mean that all security should be bad

Bob

2:38 PM

@FMLCat I think the assumption is those are on a local network (or VPN if cross-site). Of course, that assumption is often wrong...

ToxicFrog

@Bob ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

An awful lot of the time they aren't (SHODAN has ample evidence of this), and even when they are that doesn't mean that local network is secure.

True story: a few years ago Google sent most internal traffic (e.g. between the GFEs and the actual production servers) unencrypted, since most of it was intra-datacenter and the stuff that wasn't was traveling over private, Google-controlled fiber links.

Turns out the NSA had tapped some of those links and reverse engineered most of Google's protocols.

Oops.

Now all internal traffic is encrypted, even stuff that "should" be completely safe like intra-DC RPC calls, because you never know.

djsmiley2k

3:16 PM

good jorb

Burgi

do you think that the cat that @bertieb saw was actually @FMLCat?

@Ave we live in a country that invented modern electronic spying

GCHQ are opening a branch in manchester

easier for drone strikes i think...

djsmiley2k

lol

Burgi

i'm soooooo glad we no longer deal with that customer

djsmiley2k

3:37 PM

lol

I still have no clue where this aerial and psu have gone from my desk :/

the other week the floor lifter disappeared, reappeared a few days later

so i'm hoping this will too, but wtf :/

got me proper stressed out :S

trippy fox!

head too big?

@djsmiley2k do you not have lockable drawers?

djsmiley2k

no

Burgi

3:49 PM

wtf?

djsmiley2k

thing is, i presume I've just put it some where was I was SO tired yesterday

Burgi

could the cleaner have moved them?

djsmiley2k

yeah quite possible

the cleaners love re-arranging my desk

Burgi

can you email your team and ask them if they have seen them?

djsmiley2k

Part of the problem is, I'm not even 100% sure I ever actually had them

Burgi

3:50 PM

i am astonished that an IT helpdesk doesn't have lockable drawers

djsmiley2k

meh

Burgi

how do you stop kit from being nicked?

djsmiley2k

stuff generally doesn't go missing here

and I'm not longer on the help desk

lol

Burgi

i thought you were a helpdesk type thing?

djsmiley2k

I was

havent bena for ~9 months tho ;P

Burgi

3:51 PM

network engineer?

djsmiley2k

I do netwokring now

Burgi

i am very surprised... when i worked in IT properly we had lockable drawers where we could store kit we were working on and any private customer documents

djsmiley2k

4:34 PM

well the 'room' is secure

only people in thje department should be in there

djsmiley2k

4:59 PM

Wow it's sooooooo warm

So the answer is most likely, I put it somewhere, or never had it

cept. I can't remember.

jokerdino

5:46 PM

@djsmiley2k global warming?

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