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12:01 AM
> The Smart Choice.
K6 box.
12:29 AM
Nothing smart about keeping a box for 20 years ;)
12:44 AM
I'm databasing again
12:56 AM
Kids these days, databasing and phping and getting up to no good
1:09 AM
@JourneymanGeek now, now, don't lump me in with the phpers
@JourneymanGeek My mom won't buy me a server :(
:D Good morning, btw!
Kids these days. Expecting their parents to buy them servers.
In my day I had to run a PC I picked up from a dumpster. No charecter I tell ya.
1:39 AM
@Bob ok. Sharpening their Cs. :p
HOW TF this question hit the HNQ?
Q: Can a 100% insecure website tell what is inside a PDF, image or document on a computer’s desktop?

john doeThis might be paranoid, but if I go to a website that might not be 100% secure, can they tell what is inside my hard drive desktop’s PDF or what is inside my images on my hard drive? I have a Chromebook and as well as a Windows machine.

1:53 AM
Hnq is a strange beast
2:33 AM
And Chromebooks are resistant to attacks involving stuff like drive-by downloads.
3:18 AM
youtu.be/udvPyB7XcQ8 that geiger counter from the nether regions is beautiful
1 hour later…
4:24 AM
I'm Horn OK Please
aka allquixotic
5:01 AM
@allquixotic I'm giving aspnetcore mvc another shot :P
with a somewhat less ambitious project this time
1 hour later…
6:22 AM
> The last message was posted 1 hour ago.
Ya, its oddly quiet for a monday
6:39 AM
I'm writing an xlsx to postgresql importer
this is surprisingly fun
1 hour later…
8:08 AM
2 hours later…
10:05 AM
sup @Burgi
2 hours later…
11:47 AM
Could anyone point me to resources that might help me find an extremely energy efficient Mini ITX mainboard? I have no clue where to even begin (or how to compare products), given it's such a complex field and I know little about hardware specifics
Hope this is OK to ask here, I don't really know my way around Superuser that well!
It wouldn't be a good match for superuser anyway ;) - hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com might be able to help tho.
And stick around here, someone will likely respond when they have anything useful to say. I'm personally unsure of what to look for either.
@Pekka웃 You can start by defining your requirements for "extremely energy efficient".
Are you just trying to save on power costs?
Are you intending to run it off a battery?
Are you trying to maximise battery backup runtime?
Do you intend to run it 24/7?
etc etc
You get serious diminishing returns, so where "good enough" is depends on your specific use case.
also why mini itx? Cause there might be other, more efficient formfactors.
(STX and NUC come to mind)
@JourneymanGeek I get why you're distracted ;)
@avazula actually personal stuff XD
11:52 AM
12:25 PM
It's for a mini workstation that I'd be using 8-10 hours a day under varying load (some programming with giant IDE open, some graphics with Photoshop/Indesign open, no fancy 3D stuff). I live off the grid, with solar panels charging a number of batteries, and I'm looking to put as little additional load on those as possible.
I'm currently using a Macbook Pro but want to go back to Windows for cost reasons and reasons of protest (apparently starting this year they're putting a software lock on devices repaired outside of Apple and that is the red line for me.) The MBP is pretty energy efficient and I'd like to replicate that with a desktop PC as far as possible
@JourneymanGeek I have a really cool looking case in my sights that is Mini ITX, but would be open to other suggestions.
@djsmiley2k ooh I had no idea SE had a site for hardware recommendations! Cool.
@Pekka웃 probably worth looking at your overall build
@JourneymanGeek yeah, I'll check it out.
Don't forget the processor is a big part of your energy use
Your mbp probably had a much lower tdp chip
12:29 PM
@JourneymanGeek Right!
I am looking at the i7-8700k based on this article helgeklein.com/blog/2018/01/building-fast-silent-workstation-pc
Although it IS expensive. $400, wow
@Pekka웃 not a great option if you're worried about power
I'd go for an i5, and non K.
K's for overclocking
also, go with a SSD (M.2) and, as much as I hate saying this, cut it really close in your PSU sizing
(and of course go for gold or platinum rated PSUs for better efficiency)
@JourneymanGeek this is good to know!
(laptop chips are typically slower/less powerful/fewer cores than the equivient desktop chips)
Also, K is only useful if you intend to OC
You sir, are a textbook case of a man who does not need overclocking in his life ;p
@JourneymanGeek yup, looks like there's no way around M.2 (and perhaps a normal 2.5" one for storage, IF there is a way to turn them off when unneeded. Otherwise, external.)
@JourneymanGeek Indeed! :D Had no idea about K, definitely will not need this.
@Pekka웃 2.5" isn't too bad
couple of watts?
12:39 PM
> Without strong copyright enforcement, composers like Bach will have no incentive to produce new music.

Sony is just ensuring that Bach has the financial freedom to release his next album. Really they're doing you a favor.
@Pekka웃 you can go find something like us.hardware.info/reviews/7142/19/…
(oh god, such an interesting set of constraints ;p)
@JourneymanGeek fair point! Yeah, we're not that tight on energy. Running normal TVs and household appliances and such.
@Pekka웃 do you need a GPU?
That's the other energy hog. Once again, laptop GPUs tend to be downclocked/smaller/cooler or some combo of those
but for something like this, eh, you can probably get away with a bus powered one
12:41 PM
@JourneymanGeek To be honest I'm not sure. My idea was to try using an onboard chip first and see how it works out. I don't do much 3D stuff but do edit gigantic graphics files (with complex Photoshop brushes and such) and documents in Indesign. Can't imagine them needing a GPU much but don't know exactly.
@Pekka웃 adobe's stuff benefits from GPU acceleration IIRC
but you don't need something crazy.
@JourneymanGeek Yeah. Ideally I'll find a mainboard that comes with a decent graphics chip that I can give a try, while keeping options open should it absolutely not work out
@Pekka웃 mainboards don't have graphics chips any more
onboard graphics is on the processor
@JourneymanGeek Right! I see I see
Roughly 3 options? Intel/intel. there's possibly a single line that's intel/amd and AMD.
@Pekka웃 has been like that since, sandy bridge ;p
12:44 PM
@JourneymanGeek Heh! Yeah I think I got my first Macbook around that time and stopped caring :D although I wasn't that much of an expert in this previously, either.
@JourneymanGeek this is very useful as a guide!
tbh I'm not that current
I'm currently running a 5 year old desktop XD
@JourneymanGeek that's the beauty of having a modular desktop device, they last ages and you can fix them yourself. I want to go back to that
@Pekka웃 ya, did a few big upgrades over time
about time I need to think about the next box XD
I just have other projects on my plate
Yeah, same here! But it's time. I love MacOS (the main reason why I stuck with Apple for so long) and getting used to WIndows will take some time.
Thank you for the helpful advice!
What in the heavens is this
welcome to hell
12:49 PM
Does it always work?
if you use the trigger phrases
i think they are:
how do i do something
I see I see
I want to get rid of Clippy
I want to be a millionaire
or i want to show clippy
It works!
Superuser features disappointingly little information on how to be a millionaire, though.
@Bob I just noticed I didn't @reply to you above, sorry
i believe the standard response is to just use a currency that is extremely weak, like the vietnamese dong
12:52 PM
£32.59 will snag you a cool 1 MIIIIIIIILLIOOON Vietnamese dong
@Pekka웃 Its our easter egg ;p
@Burgi ₫!
@rahuldottech VC bait.
You put some blockchain in a snare, and you hide
Like Wiley Coyote.
Do they even get what blockchain is?
1:02 PM
Actually maybe and maybe
Hmmmmmmmmm bloodhound (the guys going after the land speed record) are in administration.
Sounds like a case for twitter.com/ProfJeffJarviss
@rahuldottech Follow the money....
Oooh, there it is.
I mean, for a product like those described, this actually kind of makes sense
Except for ONE bit.
Here are two 'genuine' Expensive watches.
This one is registered, it's serial is 0001#; This one isn't, it's serial is 0001#
Now, if they use something built into the items, to identify them, that'd work
1:34 PM
@Pekka웃 You need to prioritise.
There's a tradeoff between performance and power consumption.
If you want something Macbook-like, look at NUCs.
They use a similar SoC.
Consider U-series (ULV, <15W TDP) and M-series.
Avoid desktop and especially K-series if you care about power consumption.
@JourneymanGeek Not quite true, K for the last few years have offered higher stock clocks.
Not that that's useful in this case.
nor the extra clockrate of the core i7, even if his older MBP was one
@rahuldottech Do you?
caching -_-
I'm Horn OK Please the horn, but star wall still says allquixotic :P
@Pekka웃 as raspi ;D
@Bob This is all useful too, thank you!
My latest on @Medium: I Replaced My Macbook With a Raspberry Pi and an Anova Sous Vide Cooker, Here's What Happened
2:03 PM
> Meow, meow. I'm a cow.
↳ Meow meow. I'm a horn?
@HornOKPlease Now I need to remember that was you
TOOT TOOT I'm a horn?
It's a fun pattern
Drama, drama. I'm a llama.
@HornOKPlease ...do I need to bring up Cavil again to forward @s? :P
I stink we'll manage
@Bob lol. I'll bring it up.
@JourneymanGeek Yes. Toot, toot. I'm a horn. I said toot-toot I'm a horn.
2:19 PM
2:47 PM
@HornOKPlease You're interesting. Do swing by more often.
@rahuldottech I read 22 papers on blockchain. I still think it's a linked list.
3:21 PM
I'm about to begin a driving lesson. Wish me luck.
Not in the car yet. Waiting for the instructor.
Phone's already been silenced.
3:42 PM
is 웃 there because it means something or because it looks like a man?
buscar웃 has something similiar on apple.se
hmmm @Bob - Lets say I have a load of configs/scripts for iproute2.
Could I fire up a lxc instance, and load them in that without buggering up another container? :D
(not sure if you'd even know, but you're the only one I know who's famuliar with many virtualisation tech's).
@djsmiley2k yea, each container has its own network namespace. I've not noticed any interference between them
by default it creates a managed bridge (macvlan in newer versions?) that nats to internet and each new container gets one eth on that bridge, but you can define additional eth devices for specific containersand bridge directly to external network, etc.
@djsmiley2k @HornOKPlease probably knows more; he introduced me to lxd
@Burgi what was that site that shows you how to reuse stuff
though I might've done more wacky things with it by now, idk :P he has the more stable install
reuse what?
3:53 PM
well I have a HP 640 printer to reuse ;D
not sure i'm following you
@djsmiley2k Freecycle?
@bertieb Pretty sure I can give it away still, yeah
just wondering if there's anything cool first.
Oh, right
i have no idea
3:55 PM
tbh I can't find anything cool
enter it in robot wars?
4:13 PM
Pit interview: "What can you tell us about your robot?"
"Well, it's a printer. It can do about 5 pages per minute."
"Your opponent has said they aren't vulnerable to flips because of their srimech, what will your strategy be?"
"Honestly Philippa, I've no idea. I might print some fliers on robot pacifism."
its the irish lass now
@Burgi That's no way to refer to Dara Ó Briain
you could print out asimov's 3 laws over and over and hope the paper entangles in the weapons or wheels and then causes a fire
4:31 PM
@Bob @djsmiley2k with root access in an LXD container, by default none of the LXD network setups would prohibit guests from maliciously attempting to claim IPs you don't want them to. For instance, if you have access to a public internet /24, you can't, by default, restrict which IPs within that a guest can claim from the host side, nor which MAC addresses it might try to use.
So if we assume the iproute2 scripts are maximally damaging (by accident or intentionally) they could, worst case, break networking on your box
lxc doesn't even virtualize networking at all, IIRC
it's only lxd that even tries to
but it's nowhere near as safe as OpenVZ was, or Solaris Zones / Crossbow, or proper hypervisors
4:50 PM
@HornOKPlease that's not what I remember
is that recent or early lxd?
iirc network changed a lot around 2.18
also I think with the default setup (I.e.not bridged to a physical interface on the host) you can't claim an external ip
if you do create a bridge to a physical nic, well, yea, that's a full layer 2 bridge
the interfaces themselves and the corresponding routes/tables should be fully namespaced
the wrong bridge setup would effectively punch a layer 2 (but not route entry!) hole through; if you need something more restrictive you'd need to look at the p2p nic and somehow forward filtered frames?
oh, analogy
bridge to physical is just like a vmware bridge, which is just like a separate pc plugged into the same (unmanaged) switch
oh lol
@HornOKPlease they added a security.mac_filtering
so even that's already sorted
> Prevent the container from spoofing another's MAC address
@HornOKPlease I remember Linux-vservers... shutting down one container would kill networking on the host
that was fun
openvz was definitely more mature
5:06 PM
@Burgi print out the script to terminators 3, hope that the other robot reads them then just sucides because what's the point anymore?
5:23 PM
> Remote Senior Backend Engineer opportunity – – Europe - £65,000 - £100,000 + Bens

You should have DevOps experience using AWS, as you will be leading the architecture, development and overseeing backend infrastructure.
you lead ALL THE THINGS.
@Bob huh, nice
@Bob somehow macvlan works kinda similar but kinda different from a bridge... you can still have multiple subinterfaces in the guest that claim different external IPs
@HornOKPlease macvlan is just weird. I try to avoid it
the semantics of a software bridge are clearer
especially since macvlan depends (and differs) on hardware supports
5:43 PM
@djsmiley2k I like that you get pens as well
6:40 PM
Just catching up on stuff after today's driving lesson (see Matrix).
On my laptop, tethering from my phone.
@djsmiley2k Senior backend engineer. That's the kind of thing that calls for 5+ years of experience (and preferably 10+ years), right?
7:21 PM
@bwDraco yeah
cept the whole 'you do the design, the implementation, the upkeep, everything!' is a bad bad sign
2 hours later…
8:56 PM
More IMFT QLC NAND coming? tomshardware.com/news/…
I'm honestly more concerned about data retention than endurance with four bits per cell.
Three bits? That's a mostly proven technology with good overall reliability. Four bits? I'm not so sure.
(these days, two bits per cell is rare and limited to enterprise, workstation, and extreme enthusiast applications)
1 hour later…
10:15 PM
Nothing makes me happier then screaming and cursing at IRS scammers.
11:05 PM
I just ate an apple
It made me a little happy
True story

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