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12:07 AM
@Ramhound Free Open-source Ghost project
If you run Linux servers (or can run one for the app), it's a great solution for imaging and managing fleets of computers, even if they're different types
It also supports imaging Linux and Mac computers
Can a mod look at these?
Q: Canonical question on PXE/"no bootable device" errors, help us close the duplicates

bwDracoWe get variations of what is essentially the same question all the time: the system doesn't start Windows, dropping to PXE boot and failing and/or throwing a "no bootable device" or similar error. The answer is the same nearly every time. We ought to collect all these questions and have one quest...

@Ramhound fogproject.org if you're interested
@CanadianLuke I'm kinda disappointed that frogproject.org is not a real site. :(
> User interface shown will be available in a future release
@Ave I like how that disclaimer is hidden off the screen on my display.
12:18 AM
The management screen is pretty basic, but shows cool graphs for statistics. You can also set FOG to be your DNS and DHCP server for your network (obviously, don't use it as the DNS server if you have Active Directory)
I'd better take good care of my GTX 1080 Ti :P
graphics cards usually have some legs
Its a terrible time to buy a PC, period ;p
@JourneymanGeek ?
@bwDraco I've rarely had GPUs fail
(other than the 8000 series nvidias but those had design flaws)
@bwDraco can confirm
one of my partners was looking at vegas for MONTHS and they just keep running out and everytime they appear they sell at higher and higher prices
she went with a gtx1080 yesterday
12:29 AM
I'm lucky I managed to convince my mom to fund Astaroth before things really got out of hand.
RAM was getting expensive, paid $300 for a 2x16GB kit.
The other parts were more reasonably priced, though the graphics card still costed $850.
(IIRC this is MSRP for the EVGA FTW3 Elite card, which has special 12 Gbps memory)
why do you even need that much bandwidth on a vram
@Ave You're feeding 3584 shader cores (28 SMs, 128 CUDA cores each), and they're running at up to 2 GHz.
It's this card: pcgamer.com/…
Fans are a bit noisier than I'd like, but aren't excessively loud under normal operating conditions. EVGA likes using double-ball-bearing fans for their longevity and reliability, but they run louder than the sleeve bearing fans others use.
(unlike with case fans, I have not heard of anyone using hydrodynamic bearings on a graphics card fan)
Having three fans helps with keeping fan speeds, and therefore noise, down.
12:58 AM
@allquixotic you around?
1:20 AM
300W TDP support? Interesting...
Is Intel planning to bring 28C/56T Skylake-SP XCC chips to the desktop?
eww delidding
That's the 18C HCC die. I'm thinking, "are you sure the 28C XCC die will fit in the LGA 2066 package?"
Notice that they're using an interposer here.
> The company says that it is working on more elaborate lighting for future product generations.
I want a NUC-type computer with IPMI
Supermicro has been less focused on RGB than the other motherboard vendors.
@bwDraco ...that's a good thing
1:28 AM
> Supermicro also had the enthusiast-oriented C9X299-PGF on display, which features somewhat pared down specifications compared to the -PG300 but includes IPMI 2.0 support for out-of-band management.
That's still an ATX board but IPMI makes a return to Supermicro's gaming boards.
(last time I saw this was with their X99 board)
@bwDraco ya, that's orders of magnitude more $, power consumption and physical size than a NUC
> To access these Intel NUC models remotely, make sure to boot up with a monitor attached (also known as headless mode).
isn't that the very opposite of headless?
> Plug an Extended Display Identification Data (EDID) emulator into a graphics port on the Intel NUC.
That's their official recommendation?!
> Supermicro's 300W rating for a Core X-Series CPU certainly raises many questions. We've heard of the 165W Core i9-7980XE pulling up to 550W with beefy watercooling and even closing in on 1000W with LN2, so it's no doubt the processors are power hungry. Intel's thermal paste chokes off most of the fun early, though. It's fun to imagine a 300W TDP processor coming our way, but it could be nothing more than marketing. Supermicro representatives wouldn't provide more information.
The Skylake-SP die is notoriously power-hungry at high clock frequencies; they were designed for server use where clocks are nowhere near as high. On some boards, VRMs are known to overheat, resulting in the motherboard itself imposing thermal throttling.
hm, apparently you can get a KVM console through vPro on some NUC models
@bwDraco if you draw too much power your power supply might overheat, more news at 11
@Bob lol
The point is that even the beefiest VRMs are having trouble supplying adequate power to the processor.
@Bob Yea, "OK" Intel....
1:38 AM
@Bob Looks like a limitation of Intel's processor graphics - it doesn't like having no device attached to any of the outputs.
@bwDraco s/graphics/graphics drivers/
they recommend ... switching to the Windows fallback drivers
(also apparently it's supposed to be fixed now. also it looks like it's calling out VNC software specifically, which probably doesn't redirect the display properly - while RDP does)
> Uninstall the Intel® Graphics Driver from the Intel NUC and use the basic Windows* graphics driver instead.
I need to set up a SSH tunnel to my mini server :P
> "The question came up at lunch today, and your name soon followed. We all just assume you have some kind of time traveling phone booth or Tardis, and like Bill and Ted of old, move through geek history to find answers to those long lost questions."
1:56 AM
I'm thinking... do I want to spend the money on AIDA64?
(standard $40 license for AIDA64 Extreme is good for three seats and includes one year of updates)
@Bob Define NUC-type computer with IPMI?
Just a small server? Embedded server? iMac mini?
@FMLCat Small, low-power. Basically a NUC.
Anywhere from Celeron to Core-M/Core-U
@Bob How small? miniITX small enough or smaller?
But yea it's a very vague want, not something I'mm gonna rush out to buy (esp. since I juuuuust got a mini server last month)
@FMLCat If we're talking ideal, probably closer to Nano-ITX. But Mini-ITX isn't that much bigger.
The hard part is finding anything at all that does IPMI
hm... there's some nice C2750 boards actually
This guy sums up the problems: arstechnica.com/civis/…
> I think the biggest blocker here is that they don't seem to put IPMI on cheapo boards, and you don't get vPro until you step up to the more expensive CPUs. The things that do support IPMI tend to be server chipsets that require ECC, which means new RAM, and on and on. If I drop the requirement for IPMI, I have about a billion options, but I really hate taking a system out of where it will go and dragging it across the house to a monitor when it breaks.
@Bob Well in the miniITX range there's plenty of Xeon-D server boards
2:07 AM
@FMLCat Supermicro, I guess?
I wonder who even sells Supermicro locally
Or you could get a literal NUC and a USB IPMI dongle thingy
@FMLCat Hm. I have the first half. Didn't know USP IPMI existed
heeeeeeey. I have a serial port on this thing.
RPi + SSH + TTY over GPIO? :D
Err what did I say?
Not USB... well yes USB
Standalone IPMI server basically, plugs into USB and VGA and emulates a KVMoIP
Strictly speaking more KVMoIP than IPMI, since they oftne don't do serial
@FMLCat How literal are you being with VGA? 'cause this only has DP and HDMI out ... which probably costs a whole lot more. Bleh.
But I saw a Dell engineer use a USB one once, which is probably why I said USB
@Bob I guess there's DP to VGA converters for $10?
2:10 AM
@FMLCat Ya, I imagine there's no power control on it either.
But that's fine, cause it sits on my desk anyway. It's just annoying trying to plug it into a monitor and keyboard.
@Bob If you're controlling it from another computer I guess you want the USB version. Otherwise you can get the Ethernet version
The latter is older, and ironically cheaper
But neither is cheap since they're designed as work tools for server operators/engineers not consumer devices
@Burgi I vote to delete @Burgi
@FMLCat ya, they start at $250
wait no, there's a $150 one here
$250 is if I want audio :S
Do you really need audio?!
And if it sits on a desk and the only reason is it's a pain to connect to a keyboard and monitor why not just use a regular KVM switch?
2:15 AM
@FMLCat nup, was just the first one that came up
@FMLCat because a DP KVM switch is also $150+
more if I want one that supports UHD
@Bob :-o
> You can also use low-cost adapters to achieve a dual-monitor setup using your computer's secondary HDMI or DVI port.
if your switch costs $700
I don't want to know what your "low-cost adapters" are
probably $200 ea
2:18 AM
And that was just the first one that came up...
Granted that's just a DP with no USB/KM
£61 with USB and audio on amazon
@FMLCat Looks like there's a $170 one available mwave.com.au/product/…
that's as cheap as they get here
but, eh
at these prices the $300 Supermicro board with a C2550 and IPMI looks better :P
probably should've thought of this before buying the other one, though
root@tryhard:~# snap refresh
error: cannot refresh []: Post search.apps.ubuntu.com/api/v1/snaps/metadata: x509: certificate has expired or is not yet valid
root@tryhard:~# date
Wed Nov  9 10:56:13 CET 2016
!! Caaat
2:27 AM
@Bob hmm. Still a lot more expensive than here
@FMLCat I suppose cheaper would be something delivered from china
@bwDraco no
2:46 AM
@Bob or ill bring one over when I emigrate to Oz with my giant 128kg baggage allowance ...oh wait
@FMLCat you can just get it shipped by sea
1 hour later…
4:20 AM
@djsmiley2k ok, migration complete... could you try connecting at some point just to see if everything still works?
(ik you don't need it anymore, but this is kinda a test before I migrate the more critical servers :P)
4:38 AM
@Bob yo
@allquixotic hey
I'm migrating all my lxds to the snap package
this is scary :D
how exactly are you doing that?
@allquixotic Are you running ubuntu, backports, ppa or snap lxd?
# aptitude show lxd
Package: lxd
State: installed
Automatically installed: no
Version: 2.21-0ubuntu2~16.04.1
Priority: optional
Section: admin
Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com>
Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 14.3 M
Depends: acl, adduser, dnsmasq-base, ebtables, iptables, liblxc1 (>= 2.0.0~), lsb-base (>= 3.0-6), lxd-client (=
         2.21-0ubuntu2~16.04.1), lxcfs, passwd (>= 1:, rsync, squashfs-tools, uidmap (>=
         1:, xdelta3, xz-utils, init-system-helpers (>= 1.18~), libacl1 (>= 2.2.51-8), libc6 (>= 2.14),
basically they deprecated the ppa end of last year (and actually deleted the archives now)
4:40 AM
@Bob I saw that on the ML
so the lxd in ubuntu stable is still supported. backports is the deb/apt way to get updates. snap is the recommended way (esp. for former ppa users)
@allquixotic that's... idk actually
@allquixotic aptitude versions lxd
I have xenial-backports enabled, but not a PPA
@allquixotic ah, you're probably running backports 2.21 then. I think they're gonna keep supporting backports so you're probably fine.
I was doing a custom build off the PPA on Debian
Package lxd:
p   2.0.0-0ubuntu4                                                      xenial                                          500
p   2.0.2-0ubuntu1~16.04.1                                              xenial-security                                 500
p   2.0.11-0ubuntu1~16.04.4                                             xenial-updates                                  500
i   2.21-0ubuntu2~16.04.1                                               xenial-backports                                100
@allquixotic hm... it should have listed the repo. weird.
anyway, migrating was pretty easy
snap install lxd
except I had to go and edit my /etc/os-release first to pretend I was on ubuntu cause otherwise the migrate script quits
4:44 AM
the deprecation warning suggests moving to the backports repo, so I'm not worried
Migration ore or less copies the DBs into the snap-specific dirs and modifies a couple paths. Pretty smooth.
Except on my first test system I accidentally uninstalled snapd while trying to uninstall leftover lxd packages... and nuked the DB
had to recover from the storage backup.yamls and manually reconstruct network bridges :D
the other servers are going smoother
files.floofyfox.com still works, and that's my most complex container (custom network binding and dir mounts)
idk if I have anything complex anymore except for my Windows VM that I run on KVM
which I don't keep on 24/7 because it chews up RAM and CPU and I can start it when I need a remote Windows box
@allquixotic most of mine are still on KVM VMs
haven't bothered moving them to LXD
only the new ones are on LXD
(though, the need for that has gone away mostly with getting gigabit)
root@amaterasu:~# virsh list --all
 Id    Name                           State
 -     benten                         shut off
 -     kubuntu                        shut off
 -     kumari                         shut off
 -     sae                            shut off
 -     susanoo                        shut off
 -     suseri                         shut off
 -     uzume                          shut off
^ Windows VMs
4:48 AM
# vir list --all
 Id    Name                           State
 -     win                            shut off
root@gaia:~# virsh list --all
 Id    Name                           State
 1     pheme                          running
 2     clio                           running
 3     arke                           running
 4     theia                          running
 5     phoebe                         running
 6     tethys                         running
 7     angelia                        running
 -     calliope                       shut off
 -     dolos                          shut off
^ Linux VMs
holy crap that's a lot of stuff... you need my SP-128 more than I do :S
@allquixotic ... I kinda went crazy with the compartmentalisation, so it's like one service per VM
the Windows ones are just a test AD network so they're not that important
migrated two (three?) servers to snap so far... two to go!
huh, I don't even have lxd installed on gaia yet
makes things easier!
# lxc list
|   NAME    |  STATE  |              IPV4              | IPV6 |    TYPE    | SNAPSHOTS |
| cavil     | RUNNING | (eth0)           |      | PERSISTENT | 0         |
| elegy     | RUNNING | (eth0)           |      | PERSISTENT | 0         |
@allquixotic ...sure you want the IPs publicly listed here? :P
your networking looks more complex than mine
4:55 AM
those are anonymized IPs; look at them
~# zfs list
NAME                                                                           USED  AVAIL  REFER  MOUNTPOINT
tank                                                                           536G  1.23T    19K  none
tank/containers                                                                173G  1.23T    19K  none
tank/containers/cavil                                                         18.5G  1.23T  18.1G  /var/lib/lxd/storage-pools/tank/containers/cavil
tank/containers/elegy                                                         10.5G  1.23T  9.03G  /var/lib/lxd/storage
while we're posting server stats
@allquixotic oh
@Bob eh, one of the boxes has several related services that all need to be on 443, but I wasn't able to get all of them to play well with reverse proxying so I chucked them on separate IPs and subdomains
So... how would I migrate my services to use a dedicated server and set up ZFS, etc. like you?
Planning for the future, when the funds become available.
@allquixotic but not separate boxes? :P
@bwDraco 1. buy a dedi, 2. pick a Linux distro, and VM or container technology 3. follow a ZFS root guide (usually using ext4 for /boot) 4. install OS 5. do block-level transfers of your existing VMs or containers to the new platform and fix as necessary, or rebuild from scratch
5:01 AM
@bwDraco you set them up one at a time again, unless you're currently using containers or VMs you can migrate wholesale
Wow. That is a huge amount of work.
and even then it's a case-by-case thing you have to test a fair bit. don't just jump in.
<== says the guy who tested a bit, jumped in, and nuked his lxd db
@Bob you mean separate containers? yeah, nah, mutual trust because it's all part of the same "project"
I might have to get a more basic server to experiment and learn the tools first.
I use containers as project/security boundaries of sorts (they're unprivileged and I have the apparmor profile enabled)
5:02 AM
Or... any hints on how I can learn this locally?
@allquixotic ah, I isolate services more for maintenance than security
(problem is, I can't really do much bare-metal here, so will have to spin up VMs in VirtualBox)
security is a useful side effect (but, lacking apparmor, not quite as tight yet)
I don't have dedupe on, so isolating for maintenance would be silly unless I need different versions of OS packages
@allquixotic I only use compression, not dedupe
the OSes themselves take minimal space anyway
5:03 AM
lots of different copies of the same base OS image then :S
a couple gigs at least...? depending on your stack
And... has your ZFS experience helped you in your career?
makes it much easier when I can try upgrades independently without breaking unrelated services
downside, I have to remember to update more containers...
@bwDraco as a programmer, no, not really at all
@allquixotic the base image is under 150 MB, usually
under 100 MB if you go with a raw debootstrap build, IIRC
it helps me network and talk to geeks but not actually do stuff on the job
5:05 AM
@allquixotic it's helped me learn a fair bit about filesystems and disk structure in general (well, the process of digging up crap to fix failed installs has)
'cept of course that has little to do with the programmer day job
@Bob oh, yeah, true
even less because we're on a windows environment here
and learning about the caching strategies of ZFS is nice for potential use in applications when implementing yoru own caching :P
now, fiddling with AD has actually helped
@Bob same on my current project :/
though I always was a sort of filesystem enthusiast, all the way back with reiserfs when reiserfs4 was the hot new thing, not that boring old ext3 or that super buggy ext4dev
5:08 AM
@bwDraco if you want to play around, I'd suggest starting with a cheap VPS
@Bob Spin up another Linode instance?
avoid the OpenVZ ones and just go for a KVM-based one. There you have full control over the kernel.
Linode is KVM-based; already have three servers there.
Then you can just try following the tutorials for setting up root on ZFS, maybe spin up some LXD instances...
for a bonus challenge, use Debian :P
I may have to use full virtualization mode, though.
5:09 AM
(cause Ubuntu has ZFS baked into the image, and LXD is trivial there)
but... I do this kind of stuff for "fun"
not with any other goal of getting something out of it
that happens by chance
Or can I do this locally?
No reason you can't
Dec 7 '17 at 1:32, by bwDraco
...well, might as well just use the demon that's already on the table and run VMs.
brb one min, switching tunnels
Just a moment while I update the hypervisor.
I never learned to do containers... was thinking about using openSUSE's virtualization tools.
What's the difference between LXC and LXD?
5:17 AM
@bwDraco LXC (the UI) is considered "legacy" now
LXD is the replacement
LXC (the libs & kernel components) is used by both LXC (the UI/tools) and LXD
openSUSE uses libvirt; are you familiar with this?
libvirt is a different matter altogether
it also currently doesn't support LXD, afaik
and lxd is ... easier than libvirt, imo
libvirt was a good abstraction for, say, qemu and even lxc
Do I need bare-metal access? Also, I fear I might have trouble because I'm not all that great with Ubuntu.
but lxd itself is designed to be simple and easy
You know what? I think it's better to spend my time learning JS and PowerShell than tackling another server project.
*shrug* entirely up to you
You're a web developer, right? I suppose I can turn to you for guidance...
Sure, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.
(answers may or may not come from Google, depending :D)
5:48 AM
this server reboot is taking a while
I know this is a matter of preference... but what code editor do you use for HTML and JS?
@bwDraco If I got to choose, VS Code.
Currently, mostly NetBeans because I'm also dealing with a server-side in Java.
An up-to-date NetBeans is alright. VS Code is still better :)
I'm kinda starting over in my JS book, so things might seem very basic. I'm probably using VS Code.
5:49 AM
The biggest problem with NB is it's updated fairly infrequently.
JS is evolving pretty quickly.
But if you're not using bleeding-edge syntax, it's mostly alright.
(it's been ages since I last touched my books; AFAICT there are no new revisions to the books I'm using)
I'm... a bit surprised there hasn't been a new edition of the "rhino book" since I got my copy a couple of years ago.
(that book goes up to ES5)
@bwDraco eh, I've never looked at JS books
just not my style
ok, I think that's everything migrated
6:04 AM
@Bob Used to use NetBeans. It's getting long in the tooth.
Browsersync-based preview.
IntelliJ <> Eclipse > Netbeans, imo... IntelliJ benefits from being extremely up-to-date and having native tools for easily generating projects in several languages (like Java/Spring) but I like code editing in Eclipse better (maybe because I'm just used to it?) and I'm not a huge fan of Netbeans except for its JPA reverse engineering tool that actually works unlike Eclipse's
@allquixotic Eclipse is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar on the bottom of my list.
NetBeans beats it any day.
6:20 AM
@Bob I tried Eclipse several years ago. It's incredibly clunky.
Tried using the CDT. Could not even get it to properly use the MinGW toolchain.
@Bob huh. I like it -- especially on systems with an SSD, because it's butt slow on HDD + virus scanner :P
lol @ "butt slow"
I guess I like it because I understand it well
am able to fix problems I've had with it
hello fellow friends
@allquixotic heh, I gave up some weeks in :P
6:28 AM
I have a question about batch scripting
how can I parse the hostnames of my target vms into the bet use command
%hostname% just gets the local hostname, not the target vms hostnames
@BillGates I assume you mean net use?
and how are you referring to the "target VMs" in the first place? by IP address?
im using net view to get all vm hostnames
...bleh. VS Code seems to be expecting a Node.js installation.
> [Info - 1:34:41 AM] ESLint server is running.
[Info - 1:34:41 AM]
Failed to load the ESLint library for the document c:\Users\brian\Documents\JSDev\sandbox.js

To use ESLint please install eslint by running 'npm install eslint' in the workspace folder JSDev
or globally using 'npm install -g eslint'. You need to reopen the workspace after installing eslint.

Alternatively you can disable ESLint for the workspace folder JSDev by executing the 'Disable ESLint' command.
VS Code also expects Git out of the box.
6:47 AM
@bwDraco eslint is optional
6:58 AM
Gosh. I need to learn a bunch of new tools, including npm and Browsersync.
ugh, I got no gitter access
@Bob will be dropping you a message on hangouts
@JourneymanGeek ...I have hangouts?
@JourneymanGeek false alarm anyway :P
sure you do
O_O or not O_O
7:01 AM
@JourneymanGeek yea, I do
Phone broke so I can't steam or set up steam ;p
Installed Browsersync globally.
browser-sync start --server --directory -w
7:19 AM
@JourneymanGeek OnePlus has been having issues where users are experiencing credit card fraud after ordering within the past few months.
@bwDraco they don't sell direct here, so its a non issue
and I bought mine off fleabay, remember?
Got mine direct, before this whole issue started. It looks like somebody is intercepting the data while it is in transit.
@allquixotic dunno if you saw the eamil but OVH discovery offers for the US DCs are now availablw
7:39 AM
@Bob posted about them yesterday (US time) - horrible RAM/bandwidth/price
@allquixotic ah. don't look into details but I didn't expect bandwidth limits
32GB RAM, 250Mbps unmetered (probably with allowable spikes occasionally to gigabit, but you’ll be sharing it with at least 4 other servers?), and $19/mo more than I’m paying with the discounted SP-128-S
Even without my discount it’s still a bad deal compared to literally any Canadian OVH offering, all of which have a much better price to hardware capacity and/or price to performance ratio
@allquixotic yea, discovery plans are always low on RAM
once they roll out the full plans (about 6 months) it should get better
@Bob oh, I didn’t know that was a normal part of the “discovery”
7:55 AM
The only way I’d move is if they have equivalent pricing to Canada, which I doubt they will. It might come close but the “US Tax” is very significant in my experience, mainly the cost of labor
when you see that^ you know that a cloud provider knows what they're doing
and this is your dev team,on drugs...
@Ave they’re happy because they made a bar graph with all the bars exactly equal by grepping through a bunch of Apache logs?
@allquixotic yeah and then put it on their HOLOGRAPHIC DISPLAYE!
also god holographic displays would be so bad
Which ... does tech like that even exist?
7:57 AM
@Ave TWO of tem
@allquixotic errr....
VR is already bad enough with moving arms and all that
I mean even in labs
in theory you could just stack a few transparent displays
@allquixotic yes
I've seen some companies use it
for example there's this one coca cola vending machine in this one mall
It’s little more than a cool gimmick right? :P
7:58 AM
it has a transparent display which normally all those cool-shot coca cola ads
it's nothing more than a cool gimmick
@Ave and people are like "keyboards hurt your hands!!"
Well I guess if they somehow have the budget for that for developers and sysadmins they must be making really high margins at OVH
I can't even assume how much they'd have to say about vertical touch displays
@Ave as with many things in life, if it hurts, you're doing it wrong
@Ave or... drugs.
@JourneymanGeek what if I enjoy pain?
8:00 AM
@Ave well then, you're doing it right ?
or other right.
maybe even other wrong
I mean I literally installed arch to a friend on a mobile tethered wifi last weekend at a cafe
ok, you clearly are a masochist.
@allquixotic sgp, syd, etc were all 32 discovery
we have the full (pricey) sp plans now
Something a bit different...
> just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu
This is perhaps the biggest understatement in the history of computing.
@JourneymanGeek mhm
8:05 AM
(Linus's own words when he announced what would become Linux)
actually nvm
that's too memey
8:32 AM
August 25, 1991: A student at the University of Helsinki announced a new operating system on Usenet. It was "just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu". Nobody thought it would end up powering billions of devices around the world. #Linux #TBT
@bwDraco billions?
Perhaps trillions.
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