The Upper Room - 2013-06-17

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4:20 AM

1

Q: Are there checks and balances to ensure that moderators follow site guidelines?

With the site graduated, there will soon be elections for moderators. I'm concerned about this because there seem to be precious few regular site members actively enforcing the site guidelines. On top of this, there seem to be an awful lot of up-votes for questions that should be closed as no...

discussion moderation stackexchange

9 hours later…

1:47 PM

1

Q: When should an answer be made community wiki?

I made this answer community wiki because I only posted an extremely partial answer. Since the content seemed to be useful and too long for comments, posting it as an answer seemed somewhat appropriate, but the answer certainly required extra work. (This use of community wiki seems to fit with wh...

discussion answers community-wiki

2:24 PM

0

Q: Why close a question when all that's needed is a canonical answer?

I am considering adding a bounty to this question when I noticed that one of the reasons available for creating the bounty is: Canonical answer required The question is widely applicable to a large audience. A detailed canonical answer is required to address all the concerns. The reaso...

discussion close-reasons

2 hours later…

4:14 PM

Hello. I've read the do/don't-ask lists in the about page but I'm still not sure, so before I formulate a question I'll ask here: would a question about what to expect at a $denomination funeral be on-topic? I'd want answers to also address the "social" aspects (like there's a gathering afterwards; what happens at that?).

4:29 PM

@MonicaCellio I'd think so. Some traditions may have specific special traditions that you might want to be aware of, but the ones I've been to are low on ceremony

@MonicaCellio I think that'd be a great question... especially if you have a need for the answer. But as @waxeagle says, there might not be a clear answer depending on the value of $denomination. Further, cultural traditions might override. I would imagine that an Irish Catholic funeral is very different than a Mexican Catholic funeral.

@JonEricson good point, location matters as much as denomination in a lot of ways

though there will be a very wide gap between denominations in specific locations (like Catholics vs Protestants in Latin America)

1 hour later…

5:46 PM

@JonEricson, @waxeagle - thanks; I'll go ahead and ask, then, taking into account your feedback. I almost had a need for it but I ended up not being able to go anyway, but it got me wondering -- that won't be the last time this comes up and I'd like to know in advance next time. So since I'm thinking of it now I figured I'd ask.

2 hours later…

7:34 PM

@waxeagle and @jonericson Why did you guys vtc this: What does messiah literally mean in the Bible?

@fredsbend no context. Unless he goes to a specific passage it fails big time.

read Jon's comment. Messiah means different things in different contexts.

Maybe I'm just ignorant of the gravity and uses of the word, but Casey's answer really opened a can of worms for me.

That leads me to think it is a good question.

@fredsbend I think it can be a good question. But it's just too broad.

@JonEricson "too broad." Ok. I can see that. Casey's answer shows exactly that. What has my head spinning is that I always thought it was a unique term for Christ. I guess not.

It needs to be hung on something more specific. Or the tension between what we normally mean by the word as Christians and what the word means in Hebrew to be surfaced.

7:39 PM

So, would an edit like this make sense? ::: Relative to what christians think about Christ, what does the name messiah mean about Him?

Or why is he called that?

@fredsbend I'd be inclined to believe that you might want an entirely new question in hermeneutics

yeah.

You know, I think I might do exactly that.

@fredsbend go for it, they need good questions.

But I think I want to refine it here in chat first. Seems like what I am thinking about might be better here. I'm thinking I want to ask What is the significance of christ being called messiah when it is apparently a common word and kings such as David and Saul were likely called such? Why do christians seem to give it some kind of super significance when it seems like a common word, rather than a title?

Or relative to Christ, is it used as a title?

@fredsbend yes to both.

7:45 PM

If so then what does that title mean or entail?

you're looking for (and this is a purely english distinction) the difference between messiah and Messiah

What should Christ do as "messiah?"

@fredsbend yes. And then you can ask here how his role as the Messiah was different from his expected role as a messiah.

(but I expect you already know the answer to that one at least in it's most basic form)

@waxeagle I do, yes. I'm more trying to figure out if Christian culture has made an emphasis on the word when used to refer to Christ that the text does not actually support. Then I guess were back at hermeneutics.

Christ is King and Lord of all. We cannot deny that, therefore, the word messiah fits. But can we actually derive a title out of that? Is He messiah and The Messiah?

If yes, then what should The Messiah do?

@fredsbend I've asked a similar question (about a different word). It might be helpful to see my edits to get to a question that is actually useful:

5

Q: When James and Jude use κύριος is their meaning limited to "master"?

In his book, The Jesus Dynasty, James Tabor asserts that James and Jude, which he takes to written by Jesus' brothers, use the term κύριος to mean something like "master". It was a sign of honor for an older brother and mentor. He contrasts that with Paul, who uses the word to mean "Lord" and (...

7:50 PM

Sounds better for Hermenutics, right?

I'd say yes. (But I'm biased. ;-)

@JonEricson Yeah, and I'm biased to C.SE. lol

@JonEricson Checking this out right now.

That is helping. BH.SE is surely the place to post this question.

generally if you have a question about a specific word that's the place to go. Or if you've got a specific question about what the text actually says

working on the question now on BH

@fredsbend awesome :)

8:12 PM

0

Q: When referring to Jesus, can the word translated as "messiah" be considered a title and more than "anointed" as a king?

The word translated as "messiah" in the Bible can apparently have a few meanings and is usually used to simply say "anointed" or "anointed one". For example, see this usage: Psa 105:15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm. Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two ...

exegesis messiah anoint

@waxeagle and @jonericson ^^^

@fredsbend The tags show that you are asking a too broad question. :-/

@JonEricson Ok. What should I do about that? "Is the word messiah a title when referring to Jesus?" I don't see how that is too broad, but I'm receptive to suggestions.

For a question like this, I'd expect to see hebrew and some-book-of-the-bible.

But it looks like you are also asking about the Greek word "Christ". So it's confusing.

@JonEricson Is there a tag that implies "difference between OT hebrew usage and NT Greek usage?"

@fredsbend Not really. You could tag with both languages.

@fredsbend If you focused on Matthew 1:1, I could see that working. "Is Matthew saying something about Jesus other than that he had some oil put on him at some point?"

8:19 PM

@JonEricson I've done that and made "language-disparity". Maybe "usage-disparity" would have been better.

(Trivia: Who anointed Jesus?)

Or "word-usage-disparity"

@JonEricson The Holy Spirit shortly after Jesus' baptism.

@fredsbend Maybe we should adjourn to:

The Library

General discussion for hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

@JonEricson wait, we killed exegesis! Arrgghh! :-)

@MonicaCellio It's like a zombie. ;-)

8:21 PM

@JonEricson there's that nt-use-of-ot tag (or something like that), maybe.

@JonEricson and after Shog went to the trouble of burninating it!

Oh, you're trying to move to the Library. Good call. I'll shut up here now. :-)

@JonEricson posted there just now. Adjourn [gavel knocks]!

8:35 PM

@Caleb I saw recently you mentioned a plugin or something that can automatically convert an SE link into the title text. Where can I get that?

Especially on comments.

30

Q: SE Comment Link Helper

About This userscript automatically converts raw Stack Exchange question URLs into the form [title](link) before submitting comments by grabbing their titles from the API. This is similar to conversion done natively on posts, and is in response to this Meta request. The script also tries to ...

script comments

@fredsbend Questions and answer bodies already do it automatically. This is for comments.

@Caleb Great thanks.

2 hours later…

10:28 PM

@MODS There was a question around the first of may that I answered, but it has been deleted. I would really love to get the text of my answer if that is possible.

in The Library, 4 mins ago, by Jon Ericson

But Aslan is somewhat more than an allegorical figure in my mind.

@JonEricson What do you mean here?

@fredsbend Well, it gets tricky to explain. Narnia is real even if we can't visit in person. Aslan created it as much as Lewis did.

@JonEricson Ok??? Honestly, you sound crazy right now. But I am eager to hear what you have to say.

@fredsbend LIke I said, it's tricky.

Have you ever wondered why God made us with the ability to imagine new things? It's sort of miraculous.

See also:

"Leaf by Niggle" is a short story written by J. R. R. Tolkien in 1938–39 and first published in the Dublin Review in January 1945. It can be found, most notably, in Tolkien's book titled Tree and Leaf, and in other places (including the collections The Tolkien Reader, Poems & Stories, A Tolkien Miscellany, and Tales from the Perilous Realm). This is notable because the book, consisting of a seminal essay called "On Fairy-Stories" and "Leaf by Niggle," offers the underlying philosophy (Creation and Sub-Creation, see below) of much of Tolkien's fantastical writings. "Leaf by Niggle"...

11:05 PM

@JonEricson Not wondered. Marveled. It is clear to me that Human consciousness could not have been the product of natural processes. It must have been created. The idea that we even have ideas is mind boggling, which is also mind boggling. Creating things that are unlike anything else in your mind is, I think, the essence of being "created in God's image." God is the creator and like Him we also create.

@fredsbend Yeah. And when you get someone really good at creating things, like Lewis, it's hard to say that their subcreations don't really exist. (How far you say they do exist depends on how much of a romantic you are.)

@JonEricson I think there is a name for this: What is created in the mind exists as much as what exists outside of the mind. Sounds fun and mysterious, however, I think it verges on near blasphemy.

God created the universe with only the words from His mouth. Only He has that authority over all that is. Only God commands all that is with only His word.

I think that merely thinking and imagining that something exists makes it exist somewhere is claiming that authority and power that belongs to God only.

@fredsbend Sure. I don't dispute that it's might be blasphemy.

11:23 PM

@JonEricson You know, I do find my wife and I talking about TV characters sometimes like they really exist. But that is just the suspension of disbelief. If I could not suspend my disbelief that a TV show was real then I could surely never enjoy watching it.

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Jun '1317

The Upper Room

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