@DavidStratton I liked Dune, but probably because I knew the story from playing the video game when I was a kid. As a story, I think it ranks up there in modern mythology with the Spiderman creation story.

Not to flout my ignorance, but does anyone know wht this guy is talking about?

@DavidStratton No idea.

@DavidStratton Perhaps he's talking about Milton's Paradise Lost?

(A bit random, but eh. :P)

Fellow Christians, let us live our lives such that when non-Christians see us, they ask "Who is this God you know?". Not the God we talk about, but the God we KNOW.

@El'endiaStarman Really should read that.

idea: take a poll of users to understand what people think "Christianity" is ...it wouldn't necessarily change anything about the site, but it'd be cool to see where we stand

At the least I'm gonna mock something up in an online survey and link it here, but I'd love to get some help with the questions and maybe some meta-backing?

@TRiG good point... perhaps asking people what they think the "gospel" is would be better... but again, just finding out what people think "Christian" means would be at least interesting...

@ThomasShields Well, I wouldn't even know where to begin answering that question.

@TRiG well, from a traditionally Christian standpoint, the "gospel" is proclaimed as the core message of Christianity... so i'd want to find out what people think it is...

I'm sure the two most commonly held answers (not sure which order) would be "Someone who is saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ" and "Follower of Jesus". (Obviously, there's some overlap there). I'm not sure I've heard of any other, except maybe "Someone who was raised going to a Christian Church, and may or may not bother going any more, but self-identifies as Christian because of their upbringing."

@DavidStratton Well, the first of those is incoherent, and the second is highly ambiguous.

Yeah, ambiguous is right. It encompasses anyone who "thinks Jesus was right on about loving your neighhbor, but the rest of it is hogwash" to the most ardent, fervent follower, who tries to obey every teaching Jesus was recorded as speaking.

That's why I've always hated it.

and LOL the first one may be incoherent, but it makes sense to a pretty wide swath of Christianity. Pretty much all of us that believe in being born again, and the universal Church.

@DavidStratton And even within your second category, there's a lot of room for manoeuvre.

@DavidStratton I have a short list of words I never use, because they mean different things to different people, and always lead to talking at cross purposes. One of them is faith.

And now I must go check whether the oven is hot enough for my frozen pizza yet.

I'd have to agree with you on that one. Enjoy the Pizza.

@DavidStratton Not yet. I swear it's getting slower.

They really do use language in a very different way.

Yeah, but there's such a wide variety of ways to interpret even that little sentence. Volumes have been written on the differing views.

"Grace" === "Undeserved kindness"

Yep.

However, what type of faith is "saving faith"?

@DavidStratton That's the term they use.

@DavidStratton No idea.

There's an illustration one preacher uses of a man with a wheelbarrow going across Niagra Falls, asking "How many of you have faith that i can go across this tightrope?

Plenty of people say "Sure" until he asks for a volunteer to sit in the wheelbarrow.

@DavidStratton Blondin.

He had to get his manager to go in the wheelbarrow in the end.

Faith is a term that's surprisingly open to interpretation, which is why I agree very strongly with you.

I'll have to look that up now. I wasn't sure where the original reference came from.

The first time he crossed was on his own. No wheelbarrow. He held his balance pole, and carefully, slowly, inched his way across the abyss below.

A couple of metres from the end he paused, steadied himself, and did a backflip.

Ah. Found it. Gotta love Google.

Cane back to solid ground, went into a pub, tanked up, and skipped back.

Of all the showmen at Niagra, Blondin was the greatest.

He died in bed. In his eighties, I think.

Thanks for the info! NOw I've gotta run. The boys are asking for supper.

(I visited Niagara with my family when I was twelve. Bought a book, Niagara and the Daredevils. It's stayed with me since.)

@DavidStratton Feed the little children .....

@ThomasShields I think you'll find that identity is complex.