The Upper Room

12:00 AM

2

One thing to remember is that a large part of any religion is cultural. And some of that is a response to outside culture. For example, no one reasonably could read the Bible and say that "God hates gay people" is the fundamental message of the text. Plenty of people have found that message in th...

I think the Mormons have revised that doctrine (handy, having living prophets).

Flimzy

Yes, they've at least changed it to a degree.

They may still call it the mark of cain, I'm not sure

But they used to not allow blacks to be elders, if I recall, but they do now.

TRiG

How do you link to a previous revision of a post?

Flimzy

I'm not sure

TRiG

As in, the original version of this question: christianity.stackexchange.com/q/2769/214

Flimzy

ah, click on the 'edited by' link

then there's a link icon to the left of the revision

TRiG

12:04 AM

Ah! I hadn't seen that view before. Anyway, what I wanted to point you to was christianity.stackexchange.com/revisions/2769/1

Or, in its original form: bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/F19585?thread=3795398&show=40#pi35

Flimzy

ah, right... I saw that question

TRiG

And the reasoning there (which I stripped out at @Caleb's request (and because it made sense to do so))?

Flimzy

I think the answer "It says absolutely nothing about what other people, who do not have such a wish, should do, nor does it say anything about how Christians should interact with such people." is somewhat short-sighted.

Yes, the specific verse quoted doesn't say anything about people who do not wish to inherit the Kingdom of God, etc, etc...

But other parts of scripture do make reference to how Christians ought to live in a world that is viewed as corrupt.

TRiG

Such as christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/2112/…

4

Q: Does "no part of this world" mean no involvement in politics?

Jesus is reported as having said that his kingdom was "no part of this world", and further of assuring Pontius Pilate that his followers posed no risk to the secular authorities. Given that, should Christians be involved in politics? My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were par...

Flimzy

Taking the Bible as a whole, I think some useful guidelines can be found.

TRiG

12:10 AM

As a Witness (not admitting to doubts at the time), that was the perspective I was coming from.

Flimzy

There are many people who think Christians should have no part in politics.

I'm a member of a Mennonite church, and although that view isn't held very strongly these days, early Mennonites refused to participate in politics, or hold office.

TRiG

Really? There are no answers on that question expressing that view.

Flimzy

My view is that Christians ought to work, within the law, to influence positive change. In a democracy, that means voting for laws that I think are just.

Mennonite

The Mennonites are a group of Christian Anabaptist denominations named after the Frisian Menno Simons (1496-1561), who, through his writings, articulated and thereby formalized the teachings of earlier Swiss founders. The teachings of the Mennonites were founded on their belief in both the mission and ministry of Jesus Christ, which they held to with great conviction despite persecution by the various Roman Catholic and Protestant states. Rather than fight, the majority survived by fleeing to neighboring states where ruling families were tolerant of their radical belief in adult baptism....

This article talks about it some.

I don't hold that view, so I didn't feel like posting an answer :) I also don't know how much more I could add than the article itself talks about

TRiG

I met a Mennonite lad once. We shared a cabin on a night train from Sophia to Belgrade. He was a fascinating guy.

Flimzy

The Amish still refuse to participate in politics

Most also don't use electricity, so we probably won't find any on this site to defend their views :)

TRiG

12:16 AM

It was his first time outside the States, so he was doing a round-the-world trip by train and folding bike. His first language was Pennsylvanian Dutch. And he had little formal education, but had read up quite a bit on physics. Unlike most Mennonites, his family did use machinery, and in fact had a workshop for repairing stuff in their back yard as the family business. He was doing this holiday before going into third level education to study medicine.

(I was doing an InterRail trip at the time.)

Flimzy

Most Mennonites these days actually use all the modern conveniences... although in a community where your first language is Penn. Dutch, that's probably not true.

Most modern Mennonites appear by all estimates to be identical to an average joe

a_hardin

Amish framed my house.

Flimzy

Although most people's conception of Mennonites is quite different.

TRiG

Are they still a "plain clothes" religion?

Flimzy

When I tell people I'm a Mennonite, most think I'm joking.

Because I drive a car, and use the Internet, and don't have a big scraggly beard

:)

TRiG

12:19 AM

Can I imagine you with a big scraggly beard?

Flimzy

haha

TRiG

Best not. It wouldn't do to get you mixed up with PZ Myers, would it?

Flimzy

mennoniteusa.org

that's the web site for the mennonite denomination I was a member of until about 5 years ago

there's some people on the front... I dont' think you'd ever think they were mennonites if you saw them dressed like that anywhere

tshirts, shorts, flip-flops...

and one guy with socks but no shoes...

TRiG

... and a mohawk.

Flimzy

awesome

oh yeah, didn't see the mohawk... hehe

There is a bit of a tendency among Mennonites for "simple living"... which often means second-hand clothing, and old used cars... sometimes it translates to things that are visible.

a_hardin

12:23 AM

Maybe there's a difference between the mennonites with a website and those without?

Flimzy

But even most of the "hard core" Mennonites I know, you wouldn't be able to tell from your average Starbucks artsy person

@a_hardin: Sure... But those without are a small minority. They're also the ones that everyone notices, because they stand out.

@a_hardin: In much the same way many think that Muslims are terrorists... because the 5 that are got noticed.

TRiG

Second hand clothing I grew up with. The big black sack came to the house, you tipped it out, took what you liked, added a few of your own clothes you didn't want any more, and passed it on to the next family.

Flimzy

@TRiG: Yup... I did that growing up, too (before my family even joined a Mennonite church :)

TRiG

I still haven't prepared my Toastmasters talk.

Flimzy

@TRiG: And I haven't finished writing these unit tests...

TRiG

12:26 AM

This is ridiculous. I was meant to give it the last meeting before they closed for the summer. I've had three months to prepare. And the meeting's tomorrow.

Flimzy

hehe

TRiG

First meeting back after the break.

Flimzy

Not to keep you longer, but what exactly is Toastmasters?

TRiG

My second speech in the club. I only joined it because I kept griping about my lack of a social life after that.

It's a public speaking club.

Flimzy

Ah

sounds... interesting...

a_hardin

12:27 AM

Do you have a topic, yet?

Flimzy

what are you speaking on?

TRiG

You're assigned a speech, and given things to work on (inspire people, persuade people, use illustrations, whatever), but you pick the topic yourself. For my second speech, I've picked Nicaraguan Sign Language (which is more interesting than you might imagine).

Flimzy

I hope it's more interesting than I would imagine :)

TRiG

There's also "topics", where the Topicsmaster (a different person each meeting) will call on random people in the audience and get them to speak for two minutes on a subject with no preparation.

Flimzy

I used to do that in Forensics in high school

the 2-minute speech bit

TRiG

12:30 AM

Some Toastmasters clubs are very professional, but my local one is more of a social evening. They're fun and interesting people.

It's a two part meeting, but really a three part:
1. Topics.
Then the coffee break.
2. Prepared speeches.
Then pop into the hotel bar and stay there the rest of the evening.

@Flimzy. Something's wrong here. We're not having an argument.

Flimzy

@TRiG: yes we are!

;)

TRiG

Pah!

1

Q: Is Nicaraguan Sign Language the only language born from nothing?

My interest in linguistics was sparked by John McWhorter's popular book The Power of Babel, which, in its section on creoles, includes a small piece on Nicaraguan Sign Language, which really sparked my imagination. According to that book, it's the only language which has been, in historical time...

historical-linguistics signed-languages

Flimzy

Who does that sort of club generally attract? People trying to improve their speaking? People who like listening?

I can't read that... it's in private beta

But have you seen this one?

36

Planned and Constructed Languages

Proposed Q&A site for questions about auxiliary, constructed, planned, and artificial languages, including Esperanto, Na'vi, Klingon, Ido, Lojban, Sindarin, Láadan, Toki Pona, etc. Also field linguistics questions, such as how to document a new language.

Currently in commitment.

It might be related to your question

TRiG

There can be a fair few businesspeople who want to improve their leadership and speaking skills. We have only one of those in Tullamore. We also have a couple of teachers, a Garda, and various others. A couple of healthcare people. An interior decorator. Me.

Flimzy

sounds fun

TRiG

12:35 AM

There's someone in our club who's a psychic. We had one very public but friendly argument in the pub after a meeting once, with the whole bunch sitting round watching us.

Signed Languages are natural, not constructed.

(Though, yes, I am following that proposal too. It's interesting. I started learning Esperanto once.)

Flimzy

Your knowledge of language far exceeds mine...

How many languages do you speak?

and to what degree

TRiG

I came for StackOverflow. I stay for English.SE. It's definitely the place I spend most of my time here.

English is my only fluent language. I was taught Irish (badly) and French (quite well) in school, along with a year of Italian.

My mother is a qualified Irish Sign Language interpreter (she went to college after I'd graduated), and I've learned a little of that (and also read some of her linguistics textbooks).

a_hardin

how different are the different language sign languages?

TRiG

Here's something I wrote.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A34088024

a_hardin

like irish and american sign languages

is that a question for linguistics?

TRiG

12:41 AM

@a_hardin Most signed languages are entirely unrelated to the geographically overlapping spoken languages. Most European signed languages, and ASL, are derived from Old French Sign Language.

Yes, I think that would be a good question on Linguistics.SE.

The spatial grammar of signed languages is unlike anything in a spoken language. They're completely different animals.

Flimzy

A few months ago I got to watch a friend who knows American sign language speak with a deaf mexican who spoke mexican sign language (??)

it was interesting

It was a bit like watching my friend who speaks Afrikaans speak to a guy who speaks Dutch.

TRiG

I wrote a pub quiz once, and one of the questions was, Auslan is a language native to which country?

Flimzy

a lot of similarities... but also a lot of circumlocution going on ;)

TRiG

According to Wikipedia, ASL is used in parts of Mexico. I wouldn't be surprised if ASL and Mexican Sign Language are closer than British and Irish SL.

Flimzy

I think they resorted to spelling many words... as the alphabets were very similar

of course that requires a common knowledge of either english or spanish

TRiG

12:45 AM

Nicaraguan Sign Language

Nicaraguan Sign Language (ISN; ) is a signed language spontaneously developed by deaf children in a number of schools in western Nicaragua in the 1970s and 1980s. It is of particular interest to the linguists who study it, because it offers a unique opportunity to study what they believe to be the birth of a new language. History Before the 1970s, there was no deaf community in Nicaragua. Deaf people were largely isolated from each other, and used simple home sign systems and gesture ('mímicas') to communicate with their families and friends. The conditions necessary for a language to a...

Fingerspelling is the one bit of Irish Sign Language I'm good at.

I've forgotten almost everything else.

Of course, the Irish "g" handshape is the same as the American "h" handshape.

Flimzy

I only know a few gang signs, and the 'bird' in sign language...

:P

I'm not even very good at waving hello :(

TRiG

BSL, unusually, has a two-handed alphabet.

@Flimzy. Gang signs?

Flimzy

yeah, stuff like this:

TRiG

Ooh! I've just been e-mailed the meeting schedule, and I'm not on it.

El'endia Starman

OOO! Sign languages!

Flimzy

12:56 AM

oh goody... you can procrastinate longer! :)

TRiG

Exactly!

Well, I'd like to be a procrastinator, but I never get around to it.

El'endia Starman

I'm actually deaf myself and I learned ASL over the last two years, with most of the learning being this last summer.

Flimzy

I think I'll start an area51 proposal for SO in ASL!

wax eagle

@Flimzy this is always a good thing

El'endia Starman

@TRiG LOL! :P

TRiG

12:57 AM

Not an original joke, I hasten to add.

Flimzy

I'm sure it's not :)

TRiG

@ElendiaStarman, did you ever learn to write ASL?

Flimzy

I. Need. To. Focus.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG I can kinda read written ASL. Of course, it depends on the writing method. :P

TRiG

I'd like to get a round tuit.

El'endia Starman

12:59 AM

Like...there's one popular one named SignWriting, and then there are other older, more obscure ways.

TRiG

@ElendiaStarman. I can sort of get my head around Sutton SignWriting. I wouldn't have a clue with the less iconic methods.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG Hah, Sutton. I can't read that at all. :P

TRiG

@ElendiaStarman. chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/1935833#1935833

El'endia Starman

@TRiG Wait. I meant that I can't read Stokoe Notation. I can definitely read Sutton SignWriting. :P

TRiG

Yeah. My mother was very good and lugged the Dictionary of BSL back home from the college library a few times when I was writing that article. Stokoe is weird.

El'endia Starman

1:04 AM

@TRiG Wait, you wrote that article?

TRiG

Yep.

El'endia Starman

Wow. Nice article!

TRiG

See "Written and researched by" in the sidebar.

More: bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A63207885

El'endia Starman

Veeerryy nice...

TRiG

h2g2 is a wonderful site for writing. It gives authors ownership, unlike Wikipedia. That's my article. There's also a very active community. (I could say that it was partly conversations I had there that led me to atheism.)

El'endia Starman

1:09 AM

Sweet.

Flimzy

How long have you been an atheist?

El'endia Starman

I like this one: bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A16902281

Flimzy

Are you deaf or hearing impaired, @TRiG? Or just interested in the linguistics?

TRiG

@Flimzy. Mainly the linguistics. As I said, my mother is an interpreter. And when I was a Witness I knew a few Deaf people.

Flimzy

@TRiG: What do you do professionally? Or are you in school?

TRiG

1:14 AM

I build websites.

Flimzy

ah

TRiG

(With a degree in chemistry. But I couldn't get a job there, and somehow ended up in PHP.) You?

Flimzy

hehe... I do software development.

Which touches on some web stuff, but I really hate that part :)

mostly in perl

bits of PHP, C, python, Javascript, etc

TRiG

Do you use PHP for non-web work? I know it's possible, but rare.

Flimzy

No.

I avoid PHP whenever possible... but we still have one legacy software package in particular that's written in PHP, and we have to update it occasionally

TRiG

1:17 AM

I really must learn something other than PHP. It would be good for me.

@ElendiaStarman. You say you liked that article. Do you agree with the reasoning in it?

@Flimzy. I'm not really sure how long I've been an atheist. Quite a while. I wrote bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/F1749279?thread=6992633 in 2009, and I'd already been out for a while then.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG Pretty much, yeah.

I had actually never thought about that before; Jesus healing a deaf man as if the deafness was an "illness".

TRiG

I came across it in one of my mother's Deaf Culture books when she was studying.

Flimzy

time for me to go have a social life

TRiG

See also bible.cc/romans/10-14.htm

@Flimzy. A social life? What I need is sleep.

It's 2:30.

Flimzy

Not that this is completely non-social... but I thik it would do me good to see some other humans in person.

it's 8:30pm here... I'm supposed to meet a friend in half an hour

El'endia Starman

1:31 AM

@TRiG Lol. I'm quite sure that this doesn't apply literally to those who can't hear. :P

TRiG

Is this the "real life" of which I sometimes hear rumours, @Flimzy?

@ElendiaStarman. You'd be surprised. Augustine taught that it did.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG ...well.

TRiG

In the one and only time I've ever trolled, I started a thread on a Christian messageboard with that premise. I was told I was taking the Bible "too literally", which seemed odd to me. Surely it's taking the Bible out of context.

Flimzy

@TRiG: Yeah, the glimpses I've seen of this "real life" thus far have proven quite promising, so I thought I'd give it another shot tonight.

TRiG

But I suppose fundies don't do context, do they?

@Flimzy, Enjoy!

El'endia Starman

1:35 AM

@Flimzy Seeya! :)

TRiG

1:54 AM

Goodnight all!

El'endia Starman

G'night @TRiG! :)

TRiG

See you all sometime.

I won't be around until perhaps Friday evening, unless I visit the site in work.

More likely, Monday evening.

El'endia Starman

3:12 AM

Hello there @HedgeMage! :D

HedgeMage

Hi, @ElendiaStarman

how's it going?

El'endia Starman

@HedgeMage Going pretty well.

Moderation is rather time-consuming, but then again, I knew that going into this. :P

What brings you here to C.SE's chat?

wax eagle

3:26 AM

@HedgeMage hey

HedgeMage

Just peeking in :)

How are you, @waxeagle?

wax eagle

@HedgeMage doing all right.

glad for 5 mods here instead of 3

also little one is 3 tomorrow...gosh they grow up fast

HedgeMage

hehe :)

They do... you blink and they're going off to school.

wax eagle

@HedgeMage yeah seriously.

dancek

8:14 AM

hey, I was very astonished that christianity.stackexchange.com/users/592/neil-meyer got suspended... any idea why? I wouldn't have expected that from him

wax eagle

12:16 PM

@dancek basically, consistently low quality contributions and ignoring comments asking him to improve them.

and an incredibly high volume of them

C. Ross

@waxeagle yeah, eight months have gone by very quickly for me

but a sick infant is a very very sad and scary thing

Richard

@CRoss Amen.

wax eagle

@CRoss amen to that.

C. Ross

yeah, my little girl has been running a fever for the past several days

it wouldn't make me blink in an adult, but ...

wax eagle

@CRoss yuck. I feel your pain.

Richard

12:28 PM

@CRoss Yeah, that's nerve wracking.

C. Ross

so, how goes Christianity these days?

I've been too busy with work to check on y'all much

saw y'all got mods though

congrats to everyone

wax eagle

@CRoss thanks. Not too bad, we seem to have a couple of new users that are making solid contributions, question quality is still hit or miss...

C. Ross

@waxeagle that's always the case with something like this

Richard

We're still hammering out some of the basic questions occasionally, but I think the questions overall are improving. Also, they seem to be slowing down.

C. Ross

I saw the guardian angel question and it made me think of a recent quote from facebook

wax eagle

12:33 PM

@CRoss its been really encouraging to click on a time stamp from a low rep user and see a quality contribution instead of a troll...

C. Ross

> An angel is not a little chubby fat kid. When someone saw an angel in the bible they were either dead or wanted to pee in their pants.

6

@waxeagle indeed

wax eagle

@CRoss nice

CiscoIPPhone

12:48 PM

I bet if an angel came down loads of people would freak out, think it's a nephilim and try to kill it

DTest

morning all

wax eagle

@DTest good morning

@CiscoIPPhone likely if they spent any measurable time here as visible creatures they would be accepted by a very few and rejected by a great many (much like Jesus was)

El'endia Starman

1:42 PM

Hmm. Ran out of votes at 10.5 hours before UTC... -_-

wax eagle

1:59 PM

@ElendiaStarman lol I haven't even exercised my franchise today...

Stack Exchange

2:16 PM

0

Q: Summa style formatting

This is kind of out there, and more of a long term project for when/if the site gets out of beta and I'd be more than willing to help out with the programming. What I'd like to see is the ability to make questions in the style of St. Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica. The reasoning behind this...

feature-request

Stack Exchange

2:37 PM

0

Q: Comment Deletion

Is it just my imagination, or are comments deleted on this site far more zealously than they are on others in the SE network? I participate quite a lot on English L&U and SO, and have also posted a little at Jewish L&L. I don't think I've ever seen as many deleted comments (sometimes maki...

discussion moderation

DTest

3:22 PM

"How is this not true" type questions come off as flame-bait. How is this not true?

wax eagle

@DTest ?

DTest

0

Q: Are scientific findings a test to Christians Faith?

The bible is very clear, God created the Heavens and the Earth. It also tells us a complete and precise story about the first week of creation. It's also obvious that scientists like Richard Dawkins, despise God and tell about how they want to destroy religion. Carbon dating (as well as others)...

faith science

just seems a bit argumentative from the wording

wax eagle

@DTest it definitely is.

I will see if he will correct

a_hardin

"How is this not true?" is only asking for answers from one side

DTest

I'm also thinking it's speculative. How can we answer factually that science is a test from God? except that 'all things are tests from God'.

a_hardin

3:27 PM

that being said, i'm going to answer it :)

DTest

@ahardin hah, ok!

a_hardin

I do think the question could be worded to be less flame-baitish

DTest

so the discipline badge "Deleted own post with score of 3 or higher." in what cases would you want to delete a post with 3 or more votes?

wax eagle

@DTest a better answer, an incorrect answer that got 3 votes...etc

a question that you though better of even though it was upvoted

DTest

does it work on questions?

@waxeagle beat me to it

wax eagle

3:34 PM

@DTest yup, although they can't have an upvoted answer

DTest

dang. i've got one on DBA that I want to toss out, but has upvoted answers

wax eagle

@DTest you can try, but I'm pretty sure thats a no-go

DTest

you're right...had to be flagged for moderator attention

wax eagle

3:51 PM

0

Q: Are scientific findings a test to Christians Faith?

The bible is very clear, God created the Heavens and the Earth. It also tells us a complete and precise story about the first week of creation. Carbon dating (as well as others) suggest that the earth is millions of years old and many Christians accept this premise over the statements made in th...

faith science

made an attempt to fix

ok, just gutted it a bit more

a_hardin

aww... now i have to fix my answer :)

DTest

i like it @waxeagle

wax eagle

@DTest thanks

TRiG

It seems like he's saying, "I believe things which are obviously untrue. Doesn't this make me wonderful?"

a_hardin

I deleted my christian artist question, if anyone thinks it'd be worth trying to straighten up I can try.

otherwise it's not a big deal to me

wax eagle

4:00 PM

@a_hardin its an interseting question, but I think the answer has to end up being "Look at the publisher"...

DTest

@ahardin i didn't get a chance to look at it...oh well

a_hardin

If you can see it christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/2869/…

Could this question have a better title?

5

Q: What about unborn babies?

If we accept that unborn babies are human beings and not merely a non-human organism, and further we require baptism as a prerequisite for salvation (using it as justification for infant baptism)... What happens to an unborn baby which never experiences live birth, and clearly can't have been ba...

salvation baptism

DTest

yeah it could

Richard

@a_hardin I would say, Yes, it could have a better title. The title question seems to presume previous context. If I walked up to someone on the street and said "What about unborn babies?" They'd be confused. ;)

a_hardin

@Richard and would likely slowly back away

DTest

4:08 PM

well, what about them?!?

a_hardin

"Maybe a dingo ate your baby"

TRiG

@Richard. Another comment for you to delete: christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/2867/…

3

Q: Are scientific findings a test to Christians Faith?

Science suggest that the earth is millions of years old and many Christians accept this premise. Instead of accepting that God created everything in six days, they accept the finding of scientists based on scientific evidence. I am a literal interpretation Christian and I have strong faith that ...

faith science

Actually, there appears to be another song called "The Good Book", so perhaps he wasn't thinking of Tim Minchin. Pity. I thought I'd found a fellow fan.

Richard

@TRiG You can just flag these. They'll be taken care of by the moderators.

a_hardin

@TRiG I like Tim Minchin... to a degree

nitstorm

4:49 PM

Hello all :)

wax eagle

@nitstorm howdy

nitstorm

@waxeagle: how's it going?

wax eagle

@nitstorm not too bad...

nitstorm

@waxeagle that's good :)

So what do we discuss something in specific here? or just a nice little hangout spot?

Richard

Scroll up. We discuss all sorts of wildly varying things in here. ;)

wax eagle

4:54 PM

@nitstorm mostly a hangout, but if you want o address specific topic feel free.

Richard

Although, admittedly, I've not seen sports discussed here.

El'endia Starman

@nitstorm As @Richard says, a lot of different things. :P

wax eagle

@Richard that can be fixed :)

Richard

Feel free to talk about specific questions you have or grievances.

DTest

@richard american football is not football.

Richard

4:55 PM

Or the weather (It's amazingly gorgeous out today.)

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle American Football iz da best sport!

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman :)

Richard

LOL

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman although I have a very special place in my heart for the world's sport as well

nitstorm

@waxeagle @Richard : cool ... will do....

El'endia Starman

4:57 PM

By the way, this answer should be upvoted more.

3

A: What should we put into the FAQ?

The first "bullet point" should read something like this: This site is to create a canon of knowledge ABOUT the subject of "Christianity." This is not a debate forum. Users do not expect to be challenged on their belief system, and questions asked under false pretense just to "make a point" o...

DTest

@waxeagle is it the same hole that God fills?

17

Q: Where does the concept of a "God-shaped hole" originate?

There's a concept that I heard used many times throughout my life in regards to idolatry. The idea is that inside each of us is a "God-shaped hole"--a place inside of our hearts that only God can fill. If we try to put anything else in there, it won't fit (meaning, it won't fill the need we hav...

faith

wax eagle

@DTest lolz.

DTest

@elendiastarman I don't agree w/ the question! :)

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman dubly upvoted.

El'endia Starman

@DTest -_-

Richard

4:58 PM

@ElendiaStarman Yeah, you're right.

Flimzy

I think the comments on this question need some clean up... but before I flag them as obsolete, I want a second opinion on whether my question is still too ambiguous/vague/offensive.

10

Q: Should Christians uphold unjust laws that are not overtly immoral?

Inspired by this question, I'm left wondering how Christians ought to respond to laws that are unjust, but not overtly immoral. I think most of us will agree that Christians ought to disregard laws that mandate immorality, or that prohibit morality. The cliche examples of the first would be law...

law morality

DJClayworth seems to have some serious beef with the question, even after I clarified it... are his concerns justified?

He also seems to be putting words into my mouth...

wax eagle

@Flimzy I think its fine, flag it and we will scrub it.

Flimzy

cool

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