YES! But he resisted!
That he is supernatural isn't suggesting a vanquising of the existing curse of nature; to escape sin totally.
Jesus had free will1, and of his own accord he chose to do what was right2. How else could he have been tempted! Jesus truly went through everything we do, and muc...
I made my own answer, if only to see if I'm right about something (see hidden message).
When the New World was discovered, slavery was virtually unknown in Europe. Soon after the discovery of the New World, European powers began to make slaves there, and to transport slaves from Africa to the Americas.
What part did the church (mainly the Roman Catholic church, which dominated Eur...
@Richard: When I started in on answering that Nephilium question your answer wasn't around. I had it open for like a day before I got it posted or I might not have even bothered had I seen yours. I'm glad that op gave you the accept mark but you probably should have gotten the bonus too, I was just trying to add another view on the matter to what was then a very one sided set of answers. Your research on all the different views is great.
I was planning on adding the Seth/Cain thing as another explanation instead of just objecting to the angels view ... now I'm not sure what to do with it :/
@Caleb Hehe. :) I don't mind. I just posted because it seemed to be a hot topic and the real answer seems to be "Who really knows". When we come up with those types of questions, I really like to post a list answer (more or less) giving all the possibilities. I think these types of answers are what are going to make this site useful, rather than a bunch of one-sided answers.
I really like your answer, though. I can see why it got the bounty.
@Richard In some ways a I agree. The "This is the spectrum of beliefs" as an answer, is really the most useful one, however no everyone is qualified to give it. The best answerers may be the ones who take the time to read all of the answer and pull them all into one coherent gives all sides argument
@waxeagle I usually have my assistant help me out with finding all the theories. It really helps with the crazy theories (Nephilim were aliens, for example).
@DTest: I think that's just a testament to the fact that Latin America is quite a different culture than most of eastern europe and western asia (where French, German, and Japanese are spoken)
@Flimzy yeah, its not as developed/tech oriented as the places that speak those langauges. Although it seems like Chile and some others are really getting kicked up.
Internet isn't nearly as big a part of daily life here in .mx (and probably the rest of latin america) as I think it is in Europe
And probably about half of the people in Guadalajara who use Internet, do it from a cyber cafe... if that was me, I wouldn't be interested in spending time on an SE site.
And if only half of the ppl in Guadalajara have internet at home... then I'm sure the rest of .mx is "worse"... considering GDL is a the 2nd largest city in .mx, and one of the wealthiest/techiest
We need some more serious Greek / Hebrew scholars around here. I'm foundering. Or hacking, whatever you want to call it. Or we need hermeneutics to open up so that we can use them as a reference to put together good answers for here. Or something.
Also the HCSB has some great cross reference tools but an absolutely maddening website that is too smart for it's own good, I can't even figure out how to link to a verse!
I usually use the ESV site because I have the Greek add on module that does a very nice interlinear with cross references (and very easy to link to), but they have a bug that was cross wiring the "only begotten" to the Greek pronoun "the". Not helpful!
@Flimzy Yes it's kind of nuts. I'm not really sure why SE auth stuff is so complicated except that they've patched it all together a piece at a time. It's getting better but chat (esp on mobile) is kind of wonky still.
@Caleb I'm not so sure... all links are javascript. If you bookmark a verse, it saves as the root URL (mybiblestudy.com/). Also, if you right-click and Copy the link location, it only shows root URL. Bad practices tend to show the javascript instead. This looks intentional.
Actually, looking at it in IE, you may be right. It's just a really strange system.
@Caleb: You might want to take a look at youversion.com. While I don't think it has the same study material as the site you linked, it does allow you to view the scriptures in quite a number of different translations, and linking to specific verses (or ranges of verses) is very simple.
There's also nice iPhone/iPad reading apps (and maybe Android, too, but I don't know), though that's apart from what you were talking about
If a moderator votes to close, is the question immediately closed? I'm finding that the period between when the first VtC is cast and the question is actually closed is a critical opportunity for the original asker to redeem and correct the question.
@AdamRobinson Yes, thank you. I've actually used it quite a bit it's a nicely done site, and use their Android app. They don't have the study tools / Greek / Hebrew cross reference stuff though. Or at least didn't last time I checked.
@Richard That's true, but sometimes even if a mod doesn't step and the question gets fixed the fact that votes exist creates a follow-the-leader scenario and the question gets closed anyway. Just stand by to reopen if a question has already been fixed and is a candidate. Being closed is not a death warrant, it's a down-time to work on the question before being reopened (or deleted if it's unsalvagable)
Christians believe that Jesus saved us by His blood. Since God is the only true God and through Jesus we have victory over Satan, it is claimed that we do not have to fear on curses.
But I hear many others says and even written books saying curses have effect on our lives and we need to deal wit...
The intent of the question is all types of curses, specifically black magic, voodoo, etc. This doesn't seem to be the place to discuss curses from other religions.
@Richard I wouldn't have said so but its' badly worded. It's a question about authority and what Christians fall under. It's really the same problem as with this issue: christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/1209/…
@Richard Never mind how other religions view curses, what authority/kingdom/realm to Christians fall under and how much can any other spiritual power affect us?
I think it's on topic but entirely lost in the wording of the question.
@Caleb I think this is a bit better question. But even still. Is this the community that could authoritatively say what power other religions have?
@GraceNote The position of the asker seems to think that curses have some sort of power. The position from Christianity is that only God has the power and anything else is like talking to sticks or demons.
I find it slightly funny that there are three "No" answers to my question "Could jesus have sinned?" but not one of them has more than one upvote... why don't these guys vote for each others answers?
It seems to me that if the question were worded better, it would make sense. "What does Christianity say about the power of black magic?" "What types of curses could apply to Christians?", etc.
@Caleb: I'll go with that... it certainly gives them more credibility :)
@Richard: I don't think I'd be opposed to a new title... but I'm not sure what purpose it would serve. Anyone looking for info on curses and Christianity would find either the current title, or one of your proposed ones. And I don't think it changes the nature of the answers that would be provided. So I guess I'm not sure entirely what you're getting at. I guess this is my long way of saying "I have no opinion" :)
OK, when I look at the question, the body is actually fine. It's the title I was getting hung up on. I fixed the title and I feel less stressed out about this now.
A followup to the various answers provided to this question:
The specific concept of 'trinity' isn't found spelled out in the Bible. Instead, we have deduced from various scripture verses that there are three distinct persons contained within the Godhead.
Do we know there are only three person...
@Flimzy Not too speculative, but too ungrammatical. "trinity" means "three" (c.f. "tri" like in "triangle" "tricycle" "triple" and so on) -- you're going to have to call it something else if you posit a number other than three
Ephesians 6:13-17 (NLT)
13 Therefore, put on every piece of God’s armor so you will be able to resist the enemy in the time of evil. Then after the battle you will still be standing firm. 14 Stand your ground, putting on the belt of truth and the body armor of God’s righteousness. 1...
@ElendiaStarman: That sounds like a challenge... the question is... should I try to keep you from that badge by providing an amazing answer myself... or by VtCing? :P
Sorry @Flimzy I haven't fixed up that answer on your question yet but I did just get to fixing this one, which references yours, so I think yours might be up next.
Pre-marital sex is generally considered part of sexual immorality, [1] as such we should abstain from it as we do other sexually-immoral acts. [2]
But what does the Bible say about other levels of physical intimacy between unmarried partners?
[1] 1 Corinthians 7:2
[2] Acts 15:20, 1 Corint...
A link on the top of the page. I thought: Maybe there is some discussion going on about my closed topic, why it was closed, but it isn't, afaik. What brings you to this chat, @ElendiaStarman?
In the news I saw an American politician praying for growing stock market prices.
Isn't this considered blasphemy, according to Christian beliefs, like praying to the golden calf?
This question is not only closed, but locked, so we can't even comment on it.
The only reasons this question was closed was that it named a specific person. That does detract from the question, but it didn't invalidate it, and the name has now been edited out. So really the question should be re...
@userunknown There hasn't been any discussion of it in chat that I remember but it was gone over pretty well on 3 different meta threads. Was something missing there?
@Richard I've never seen you link your own verse references using watchtower. Just curious.
@userunknown If you want it open again we can probably do that, just flag it for one of the moderators with a note that you understand the name issue and are willing to let changes suggested by whoever edited them stand so it can be made into a question the whole community thinks is valuable.
@Caleb OOoh, I see what you mean. No, it wasn't meant to be an attack. I just like to promote different viewpoints. Here's an example: christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/82/…
Hey guys, unrelated question: I'm thinking about posting a question that asks for verses that support or reject the various views of millennialism. Would this be closed because it's a list question even though the list is (should be) pretty small?
@Richard I remember that Q, I was actually wondering if there was a connection. The LDS site has a pretty slick interface with nice word cross references.
@Caleb What messes me up is that I'm neither LDS nor Jehovah Witness. When I try to ask questions from that viewpoint to gain better understanding of their doctrines, I sometimes mix the two up.
@ElendiaStarman Ya that's bigger than you think and the 17.458 sides don't understand how the other sides interpret the verses very well so it's unfair to ask for multiple POV. I would break it down much farther.
I had a lot of Mormon friends when I was a kid and studied it some, but recently I have more contact with JW's. It's hard not to scramble them sometimes.
Since I've been hanging otu here I've started to get Islam and LDS cross wired too. Not good.
I think there is a question about questions (that is not a meta question) just waiting to be asked based on what I just did here but I'm not sure how to ask it.
@Caleb: I don't understand the name issue, and I will not pretend that I do. But I can respect that the majority of moderators don't like to see the name - however, I guess that topic needs further discussion, because I guess it isn't of much help if I omit the name, but describe the politician, so that everybody, who knows, will know, whom we're talking about.
@userunknown: I think the issue is that we can discuss whether praying for the stock market is a sin or not without knowing who did it--or even THAT it was done.
@userunknown: By adding a name, you're no longer asking about the action, but about a specific person... which is "too localized"--IOW, it's impossible to know HIS intentions to know if HE was sinning.
@userunknown: If you want to know "Is Perry a sinner?" the question is off-topic for this site.
@userunknown: If you want to know "Is X action a sin?", then ask that... and leave the names out.
@userunknown: Does that make any sense?
@userunknown: If you want to know something else entirely, and we're all misreading your question, then please help us understand what you're wanting to know.
@userunknown It's not just the moderators. As far as I can see it's the entire community. This community is not about pointing fingers and people and calling names, it's about Christianity. If you want to ask about Christianity fine just ask that. This is note a political name calling forum.
@userunknown I think @Flimzy's set of options are pretty clear. If you are trying to ask the first question it is out of scope of the site. If you want to ask the second question, it is improved, not weakened, by the use of a private case study. If you want something else you have to explain yourself because all you've done is try to argue for the first option which we all agree is off topic/not constructive.
I'm not interested in pointing on somebody - I'm interested in the question on how you view instrumenting of religion for doing a political campaign, involving praying for the Wall Street, as if the Wallstreet is a value on its own.
Therefore I made the connection to the Golden Calf.
If I ask, whether P. is a sinner, everybody will agree, because according to Christian believes, every human is a sinner (beside the known exceptions).
@userunknown The Golden Calf wasn't a money making proposition for the Israelites by the way, that's a non-connection on that specific score, although the general "idol" connection could be there because it's all through Scripture.
The question, whether this is a good metapher or not can't be made without dropping names - that's the reason why I used the name. I'm not further interested in the person P.
I don't understand your fears about using the name for something, that person made in public, which is known by most persons reading here.
In my opinion, the christian doctrine says, that only God knows whether you permitted a sin or not. And for humans on earth, we can deal with vialating our laws, but sins aren't our business.
@userunknown: Perhaps what might be throwing people off is that you seem to be asking about the stock exchange and related stuff as opposed to the golden calf.
The insistence on keeping the person's name in there makes it seem like that person being a sinner is important, which is probably why everyone is under the impression that your question is "Is Perry a sinner?"
@userunknown: Okay, I'm not sure if I agree with your premise or not... but putting that aside.... I don't see how that's even close to what you asked.
@userunknown: Are you asking if humans can tell whether other humans have sinned?
Well, the Golden Calf is soemthing the people spend their money to, and they made it the most important thing. Isn't that obvious? That's why I wanted to discuss the topic on the board.
@GraceNote: Please don't repeat it again. Scroll up.
@userunknown: I can see a connection between stocks being an idol for some people the same way the golden calf was an idol. What I don't see is how this relates to prayer, or Perry.
@Flimzy: No. I don't want to discuss that. That is more a premise. I don't expect somebody else to do this premise, but if people could judge on each others sins - why would they need god?
@Flimzy: Last answer was to your question wider above ^^
@userunknown: I kinda feel like you're trying to ask 8 unrelated questions at once... and every time you try to explain it, a new question pops up. I'm really trying to understand... I'm sorry that we're not communicating effectively.
So for me it looks very absent minded, to ask for the SE-market to grow. And like an inversion of values - the real God is already the SE-market. God is only a tool. And that is the reason to call it blasphemy..
@ElendiaStarman: Can you please stop asking for sins?
@userunknown: I think I understand what you're asking now. Although I still think that the name of the politician is completely irrelevant to your question.
@userunknown: @ElendiaStarman is only trying to understand your question.
@userunknown: So far you haven't actually ASKED your question here... you just keep talking about it.
If I omit the name, some will guess it. They will argue from what they know from the news. The rest will depend on the facts I tell them, and not recognize, that I'm talking about a concrete incident. This will lead to a split discussion.
@userunknown I would argue that a concrete incident would make the question 'too localised' for the purpose of the SE site and would need to be generalized.
But I guess, everything beyond 'Is X a sinner? Is Y a sin' is off topic and too hard to ask. "What is your question!" - What did I tell the last 50 sentences? My english isn't very well, but I didn't knew it is soo bad. I'm sorry.
@userunknown Your English isn't that bad, actually. Pretty understandable. The problem is that we don't know which one of several options is your true question.
@userunknown: You have brought up a great number of points: Idolization of the stock market. Public prayer. Prayer for the stock market. Selfish prayer. Rick Perry. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting.
@userunknown: Yet you have yet to tell us concisely what your question is. You just keep talking about tangents related to your question.
@userunknown: I'm sure it's clear in your mind what your question is... but we have no idea.
Now I'm burned out. After every second sentence I was interrupted 'What is your question' and 'Do you want to know whether P is a sinner.' I said 'no' and the next person asked, whether I want to know if he is a sinner.
Then you have strong objections against me writing the name, but here in chat, everybody uses the name without problem. My impression is, that you prefer simple questions and simple answers of the form: "Yes: Joh X, Y" and "No, Deu N, M". Please don't feel insulted, but I'm tired now of repeating myself.
@userunknown People got that idea in their head because you reverted the edit several times and kept bringing up the issue of the name on meta. We've been trying to understand what your question really is if it's really not that.
Well - I tried to answer the question, and after 20 or so sentences, the only idea you became, was: "Is P a sinner" - shall I start from the top? What is unclear?
I cite myself: `I'm not interested in pointing on somebody - I'm interested in the question on how you view instrumenting of religion for doing a political campaign, involving praying for the Wall Street, as if the Wallstreet is a value on its own. Therefore I made the connection to the Golden Calf.`
@Flimzy It's not half as terrible as the one I gave before that. @JonathonByrd's troll told me that "I note a complete and utter lack of scriptural references. No, I don't need them, I just mention that because I seem to remember that you prefer them, usually. So, it's a bit... let's call it "interesting'" (Emphasis his).
The book of Proverbs, and several other places in the Bible, mention the "fear of the Lord".
Proverbs 9:10 (ESV)
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
What is "fear" in this context? What does it mean to fear the Lord?
You are Saved by Grace Alone.
Yes, you are saved by grace alone. There is nothing that you could do in order to get into heaven without God's grace. It is by God's Grace that He will save you and give you all of the things that He promises He will.
Because God is so faithful, we can rely on the...
(Part II of the 2nd edition of the question) The calf is a competing idol, yes, and the Israelits spent their private gold to make it.
Well - maybe from the other side: If I perform prayers for bread, I'm asking for a core, valueable thing: Human life. But asking for climbing stock markets is like asking for a main winning in the lottery. It is not a decent, humble question, but challenging. Asking for health can be seen as selfisch too - but health is a core need - isn't it?
So for me it looks very absent minded, to ask for the SE-market to grow. And like an inversion of values - the real God is already the SE-market. God is only a tool, to make it grow. And that might be a reason to call it blasphemy, from a Christian viewpoint.
People don't come together to celebrate their community, or to praise the lord, but to praise the Stock market. And the whole campaign is in itself only a vehicle, to make a politician popular, a marketing instrument.
So we just had an OP that 1) asked for a verse to back something (we don't know what) up, 2) rejected the idea that were was no verse to do that, 3) accepted a verse that doesn't say that, 4) then rejected a verse on a related subject as being invalid based on 'personal opinion'. Wow.
YES! But he resisted!
That he is supernatural isn't suggesting a vanquising of the existing curse of nature; to escape sin totally.
Jesus had free will1, and of his own accord he chose to do what was right2. How else could he have been tempted! Jesus truly went through everything we do, and muc...
Didnt he have a good hard dirty wank in the desert?
I wud have!
A followup to the various answers provided to this question:
The specific concept of 'trinity' isn't found spelled out in the Bible. Instead, we have deduced from various scripture verses that there are three distinct persons contained within the Godhead.
Do we know there are only three person...
Ephesians 6:13-17 (NLT)
13 Therefore, put on every piece of God’s armor so you will be able to resist the enemy in the time of evil. Then after the battle you will still be standing firm. 14 Stand your ground, putting on the belt of truth and the body armor of God’s righteousness. 1...
Pre-marital sex is generally considered part of sexual immorality, [1] as such we should abstain from it as we do other sexually-immoral acts. [2]
But what does the Bible say about other levels of physical intimacy between unmarried partners?
[1] 1 Corinthians 7:2
[2] Acts 15:20, 1 Corint...
In the news I saw an American politician praying for growing stock market prices.
Isn't this considered blasphemy, according to Christian beliefs, like praying to the golden calf?
The book of Proverbs, and several other places in the Bible, mention the "fear of the Lord".
Proverbs 9:10 (ESV)
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
What is "fear" in this context? What does it mean to fear the Lord?
You are Saved by Grace Alone.
Yes, you are saved by grace alone. There is nothing that you could do in order to get into heaven without God's grace. It is by God's Grace that He will save you and give you all of the things that He promises He will.
Because God is so faithful, we can rely on the...
