> Intending to become pregnant and stopping contraception were not sufficient criteria, in themselves, to apply the term; partner agreement and reaching the right time in terms of lifestyle/life stage were also necessary.
From the full-text version of the article: "Previous studies have also found that it is not always possible to fit women’s pregnancies into the dichotomous categories of‘ 'planned' and 'unplanned'."
"Previous studies" would probably mean prior to 2002, because the article is published on 2002.
An article on the website for the organization Heterosexuals Organized for a Moral Environment (H.O.M.E.) claims that sexual abuse has been shown to lead to Homosexuality:
It is a well-documented fact that many
many homosexuals were sexually abused
when young...
In other words, there...
Sadly, I had to learn the hard way about how to deal with homosexuality-related topics; at best, avoid them. They almost always run into misunderstandings and hurt. Some people don't mean to be homophobic, but what they say are perceived to be such.
This is after all the Upper Room, General Discussion for the Christianity.SE. I think what makes Christianity attractive is the behavior of Jesus in how he deals with sinners.
Hmm this must be the first room I have ever seen on SE where people actually stay on topic most of the time! I am impressed.
@Anonymous Forgiveness?
Or what does he do?
What I sometimes find confusing about certain Christian sects is that, on the one hand, something like lying is a sin and a violation of divine law, and yet, on the other hand, it is perhaps not so bad if you lie occasionally; that is, it can be forgiven, and it doesn't mean you will be punished forever.
The latter implies that perhaps a sin is not so terrible, and divine law not so strict.
In my country, this view seems to square with Catholic traditions more than with Calvinist traditions, though.
@Cerberus My understanding tells me that Christianity provides a good way to channel your deepest guilts about the sins you committed in the past. Sometimes, it's not so easy to pay back for what you did wrong, and the person that you wronged might want more than what was being damaged, or even promote the "the eye for an eye" mindset. In Christianity, people can confess their sins to God directly or through a priest, giving them a nice peace of mind and having the intention to walk righteously.
@Cerberus I do not think forgiveness of sin is the same thing as excuse for sin.
I asked this question, expecting that the answer could be as simple as a YES or a NO followed by a brief history of what are the new things introduced in the Roman Catholic Church which originally were not there in the early Christianity period, 200-300 AD.
I removed some of my presumptions whi...
@JonEricson Actually, it is important for the man and the woman to plan the pregnancy together. Men have as much of an important and responsible role in ensuring the health of the developing baby as women, as this article suggests: americanpregnancy.org/gettingpregnant/menpreconception.htm
Therefore, it is assumed that, if a pregnancy is planned and goes well, then both partners will know and do not really have to tell each other whether or not the pregnancy is planned.
Given the amount of effort, time, and care that go into planned pregnancies, I wonder if planned pregnancies would ever occur outside the context of marriage.
The only example I can think of is a same-sex marriage. A same-sex married couple wants a child. They arrange an appointment with a surrogate mother. The surrogate mother carries the child and provides the egg. The baby is born.
On second thought, it might be easier for a same-sex couple to adopt children than to have a child through surrogacy.
Another option would probably be "praying for a miracle". That is, if the same-sex couple is Christian, then they may pray for a miraculous birth. In reality, they'd probably just adopt children and call the children a "blessing".
@waxeagle I don't, actually. I'm aware that the desire exists and is very important for many people, but I don't "get" it, since I definitely don't have that desire myself. However, I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the comparative amounts of red tape involved in adoption vs surrogacy. One might expect adoption to be more straightforward; one would generally be wrong.
@TRiG ah interesting. I'm aware of the amount of work an adoption requires (in a general sense), I have no comprehension of this for surrogacy, but I'd imagine the legal wranglings are less complex because there is already a claim to paternity
@waxeagle Yeah. But it is in everyone's interests to streamline the adoption process, you'd think. Checks are, of course, necessary, but it shouldn't take years.
NOTE: All my information about this is very very general. I have no personal experience with either system, and nor, so far as I know, do any of my close friends.
@TRiG I think so. It's a weird situation because it seems like there is both plenty of supply and plenty of demand you'd think that there would be work to make the transfer smoother
@waxeagle Abraham and Sarah were childless before Sarah conceived and begat Isaac. During that time, Sarah wanted to have a child through Hagar, her maidservant, and Hagar begat Ishmael.
In a modern-day context of a same-sex marriage, the two partners enter a union where they know that they cannot reproduce any children. Apparently, the definition of marriage has changed.
I've removed the god tag, and carefully avoided any blasphemous jokes in announcing this. If it returns, it can be blacklisted. jesus I think needs further consideration; I'm not convinced christology is an effective replacement, though it may work as a synonym. — Shog9Dec 17 '12 at 19:20
@TRiG to some degree...in another sense it's the old "Sunday school answer" of "Jesus, God or the Bible" (see apocraphyl story of the little boy who's shown a picture in sunday school and the teacher asks what it is, he looks at it puzzled and says "I know the answer's Jesus, but that sure as heck looks like a squirrel")
@TRiG yeah, my guess is bible is my next burnination target
@TRiG Oh man, don't take my Bible tag. I've got silver! And, I got jesus! I want that "guru" badge when it finally becomes available. Being a guru about God, Jesus, and the Bible - now that's something I could get all worked up over :)
@TRiG Double congrats on the Gold Bling for editing posts, btw. Its important work. I know whom you needs the edit most :)
And who knows, maybe all that reading will pay off some day :)
@AffableGeek Eh? I have no gold badges yet, as far as I can tell. I do do a lot of editing, mind you, so perhaps one is coming. (I've never bothered memorising the badge requirements.)
@Anonymous Tags are for categorising information. Any tag which could be applied to the vast majority of posts on a site isn't really useful as a categorisation tool. Getting rid of it encourages people to choose better, more specific, tags.
Often those who oppose same-sex marriage will say that there relationship is unnatural because they can't produce a child.
But why is it not seen as a sin to marry an infertile woman? there relationship can't produce a child.
What are some of the counter arguments to this issue?
1. It does not really explain who says what is a sin. 2. It is asking for personal opinion rather than official doctrine or church position. 3. It is too broad. 4. The question seems to be related to any "homosexuality is a sin" question.
@El'endiaStarman Question Revision Proposal: "According to the Roman Catholic Church position on marriage, can a man and a woman marry legitimately while both partners in the union know that the woman cannot bear children?"
@Anonymous I think that would be a good question. I would, however, advise that you 1) wait to see what someone else thinks, and 2) ask it yourself. Generally, we try to encourage users to edit their question to ask for what they actually want to know.
@waxeagle Thanks. I wasn't really upset by that first one, but it did make me uncomfortable. And I was uncertain whether to be amused or annoyed by the later ones.
@TRiG I confess that I starred your "Not entirely happy" message, because I agreed that the starring of the "dark secret" quote was creepy. No other stars are from me, though. I am sorry for the annoyance.
@JamesT Ah. That actually makes sense, now. It never actually occurred to me that someone might star that post because they agreed with it; I just assumed it was a joke, and wasn't sure what to think of it.
@El'endiaStarman I think one thing we have to keep in mind is the situation in which that type of scenario has not been discussed by the Roman Catholic Church.
An article on the website for the organization Heterosexuals Organized for a Moral Environment (H.O.M.E.) claims that sexual abuse has been shown to lead to Homosexuality:
It is a well-documented fact that many
many homosexuals were sexually abused
when young...
In other words, there...
I asked this question, expecting that the answer could be as simple as a YES or a NO followed by a brief history of what are the new things introduced in the Roman Catholic Church which originally were not there in the early Christianity period, 200-300 AD.
I removed some of my presumptions whi...
Often those who oppose same-sex marriage will say that there relationship is unnatural because they can't produce a child.
But why is it not seen as a sin to marry an infertile woman? there relationship can't produce a child.
What are some of the counter arguments to this issue?
