@Matthew Objection noted. Will be more careful next time. In Germany "Evangelical" seems to connote Lutheran, I think. Anyway, in North America I'm responding to the phenomena that every time I visit a church that has good classically oriented music, almost always they are either Roman Catholic, mainline Anglican, or mainline Reformed. I haven't visited Lutheran churches yet, but I wonder whether the evangelical branch in North America uses classically oriented music or CCM.

But I have since thought through about "liturgical" Protestant churches; I don't think they're substantial enough to help the Faithful to immerse themselves in prayer or in mystical communion with God and neighbors. I wonder how it would be in J.S. Bach's time; a topic for my personal research using the time that I don't have :-( . If you're still around during my retirement years, we'll talk.

@GratefulDisciple True. TBH, I'm not entirely sure what the US definition is, except that it seems to be used by folks I generally agree with. If you're looking for TCM, ELCA is probably not your best bet. LCMS/WELS/ELS as far as I know can vary by individual church whether they are TCM or CCM, and some will even have both.

Bach was a Lutheran. 🙂

@GratefulDisciple I'll grant that the Anglican church was strongest in England, and, well, the state of Christianity in England is pretty miserable. Is the ACNA "not protestant" or "not substantial enough"?

@Matthew Great. I know that Lutheran churches in USA split into 3, and that the conservative one I heard is leaning into CCM. And YES, of course I know Bach was a Lutheran. He consults Lutheran Bible commentary when writing his score and/or setting text to music.

@Matthew ACNA tends to use CCM, which is a great disappointment. The choirs tend to stay with the mainline Anglican churches. Even so, I don't think mainline Anglican liturgy is "substantial" enough, partly due to Reformed way of thinking that makes the whole thing less sacramental. The Church of England has gone through a LOT; there was the "low church" Puritan revolution (represented by John Bunyan) then there is the Wesleys brothers' Arminian revolution, etc.

It's almost like I have to choose: if I want doctrinally conservative Protestant church who is lively and care for regeneration (many young families), I have to put up with CCM, OR becoming Catholic to get the best of both worlds.

@GratefulDisciple Really? That's too bad. I guess my view of "what is Anglican" is heavily shaded by King's College.

For example, last weekend we went to a Christmas concert at an older Anglican church. Music is great; they perform both classically-arranged pop Christmas songs like Rudolph the Reindeer, standard Christmas hymns, and classical selection such as Handel Messiah's the Rejoice aria. But it's clearly a mainline church with older congregation and very prominent support for LGBT.

@GratefulDisciple In my experience, it's not so much the denomination that matters as the individual church. Though, I suppose CCM churches have been more likely to attract younger people. That may be changing, however, as more people realize the "shallowness" that tends to accompany CCM. (Alas, many such people end up turning to Islam.)

This a sample performance of the aria with an orchestra (original scoring). The one I heard is accompanied by a very good pianist who is also an organist and has a feel for Jazz.

@Matthew Yes, I hope the tide is turning, we'll see how it is 20 years from now or a few more decades before I join the choir in heaven. I wouldn't say "shallow" (that's too harsh), having listened for 10+ years, I characterize it more as objectively "musically simple" and subjectively (the consumer perspective) as too "feeling driven" instead of "intellectual-beauty driven" (see my comments above).

Both represent two very different style of worship, and in both the lyrics power the awareness of the greatness of God. There is depth IN the lyrics. But as you can hear in the sample aria I linked, here Handel makes musical illustrations of the key words "rejoice", "shout", etc. a dimension completely missing from CCM (look at this piano reduction score).

@GratefulDisciple Note, I didn't apply that adjective to the music, but to the overall attitudes that (tend to) accompany churches that use CCM. And I'd count "focus on driving emotions" as part of that "shallowness".

On the "where will we be in 20 years" note, Apologetics Roadshow has interesting predictions.

@Matthew You're more severe to them than I do, but you can think as you choose :-). I'm just mourning about the musical and consumption aspects, a richness that most evangelicals could have retained from TCM. It's a case of self-inflicted injury.

(Speaking of that channel, I posted a link to a different video in the Creationism room, which I note you've been absent from for a while. 🙂)

@Matthew Yeah.... too many things I need to finish before end of year, both family and work.

Even now, I gotta go back and do some work. Nice chatting with you.

@GratefulDisciple Well, I'm also more severe about people that don't take Genesis seriously. 🙂 Personally, I don't believe Christianity can recover unless the church can find its way back to standing firm on theology.