The Upper Room

Jonathon Byrd

5:00 PM

I see that Love is an overlooked topic

El'endia Starman

Intriguing. Go ahead and start the discussion.

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd sings What is love....

Jonathon Byrd

I'm surprised that its not the forfront of everything that we as christians do

HedgeMage

we're listening, though I may be slow to respond because I have meta posts and whatnot to finish

Jonathon Byrd

Well, in my studies I've recognized that Jesus will judge us on the last day

the best description of this is mathew 25

where jesus separates the sheep and the goats

then gives them their inheretence based upon the ten commandments

urr.. the second commandment

I have also studied that OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS is Faith + Love

not just faith alone

dancek

5:02 PM

/me made a question today regarding the division of the ten commandments... not all agree on which is the second one :)

Jonathon Byrd

Has anybody else studied this topic?

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd I was with you until here.

Jonathon Byrd

oh, second being love your neighbor

@wax eagle, you agreed with me until here? or you lost me?

dancek

@JonathonByrd our righteusness reminds me of Isaiah 64:6 (KJV): But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd effectively agreed with you there. Salvation by Faith alone.

not by works lest any man shoudl boast

dancek

5:05 PM

@waxeagle amen

Jonathon Byrd

sure sure, but that's only half the story @wax

works of course will not do it, but that doesn't nullify the command of obedience to love

The only place the Bible says faith alone is in James where it says "not by faith alone"

wax eagle

actually I think thats grace :)...

sorry

Jonathon Byrd

Jesus says that the greatest of these three Faith, Love and Hope is Love

This goes full circle where it says that we are the first of all creation to bear a new fruit

that fruit being love

so it would make sense that if the whole purpose of our existence is to learn to love one another, that we would be judged upon how well we learned how to do that

no?

dancek

@JonathonByrd I think that's because we're now only hoping and now we only believe, but on the final day our hope is fulfilled and our faith is turned to knowing. Love still remains.

Jonathon Byrd

In 2 Timothy 2:19 it says that Gods solid foundation stands firm, anybody that confesses the name of the lord must turn from their wickedness (repent)

Yes but if you only hope, then you are only putting on one piece of Gods armor. We are told to put on the full armor of God

Which is like saying to follow and understand the full comprehension of the gospel instead of one or two parts that you agree with

El'endia Starman

5:09 PM

@dancek The NLT translation of that passage gives "Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love." The "forever" part kinda nullifies what you said...

wax eagle

Ephesians 2:8-10

New International Version (NIV)

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Jonathon Byrd

oh nice catch elendia, I was lost there

wax eagle

there it is

Jonathon Byrd

Yes, @waxeagle we all agree with that, but we all do not agree as to what the word FAITH means

Iszi

This chat room is awfully busy for a Private Beta site - or even for some graduated sites! Wow!

wax eagle

5:11 PM

so yeah grace through faith. After we are saved we can get to James and start working out our sanctification.

El'endia Starman

@Iszi: [laughs] Well, we DO have rather hot topics here... :D

Jonathon Byrd

it has been dwindled down to faith = belief in our current society

Iszi

There doesn't seem to be a whole bunch of consecutive participants, but y'all sure are chatty!

HedgeMage

It's our sparkling personalities... users just come and they never want to leave ;)

dancek

@waxeagle amen again

El'endia Starman

5:12 PM

@JonathonByrd Blue Letter Bible time!

Jonathon Byrd

True @waxeagle I agree that we work it out after we are saved, but if you do not show the work then you have not been saved, no? thats what jesus teaches

Iszi

Would anyone be against a Meta thread on "What lessons could we learn from Judaism.SE?"

Jonathon Byrd

@iszi I would not be against that

El'endia Starman

@Iszi Neither would I.

dancek

@ElendiaStarman I don't think there's "forever" in the Greek text, nor in many other translations either. But this is no major point to me...

Jonathon Byrd

5:14 PM

@waxeagle I think that I have such a different view of salvation because of my background and how I approached the topic. What I did was not start with one and two verses that made mention of salvation. Instead I read all that I could about the final judgment and worked backwards.

HedgeMage

@Iszi I wouldn't. I'm going to do something similar re: Parenting.SE later

El'endia Starman

@JonathonByrd blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/…

dancek

@JonathonByrd I'm interested, what's your background then?

Jonathon Byrd

Can anybody deny here that the final judgement is based upon WORKS per say? When you read every single mention of the final judgement it talks about "What we have done while in the flesh"

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd absolutely

Iszi

5:15 PM

Hey, what's that shortcut to make links to SE sites?

Jonathon Byrd

@dancek I'm a software engineer, thus my sitting here on the internet all day :) I frequently have to debug my software, to do this you have to start at the end and work backwords

So often people tell me that we will not be saved by the things that we DO, and they equate DO with WORKS

but that is not always the case

dancek

@JonathonByrd Oh, I get it (in the IT myself). I thought you referred to religious background :)

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd we are imbued with the righteousness of Christ. God will look at what we have done and judge us for it, but his ultimate decision will be rendered on the works of Christ not our own.

Jonathon Byrd

my children do not work for me

El'endia Starman

This site itself is also awfully busy! :P
http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/11655/christianity

Jonathon Byrd

5:17 PM

but my children have a responsibility to DO as I say

@waxeagle yes I agree, but that is Christ standing in between us and God. But Christ will ultimately be the judge as to whether he is going to stand in for you? no?

Thus, when christ makes that decision he will do such based on your ability to love

that's what all this talk of good fruit is in the bible

Let's take hebrews for example
Hebrews 10:26-27
New International Version (NIV)
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd No way. He will do it because he is merciful. If it was up to my ability to love I would burn. God chooses us and then he sanctifies us. that process produces fruit, its not our efforts.

Jonathon Byrd

We see that if we continue to do bad things REGARDLESS OF OUR FAITH we will be destroyed

El'endia Starman

@JonathonByrd But can we really be considered to have "faith" if we continue doing bad things because of it?

Jonathon Byrd

@waxeagle that is where you are wrong, God says that he will discipline his children so that they may produce good fruit

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd then we all shall burn

Jonathon Byrd

5:21 PM

@waxeagle again, you're right most of us will, "Few will find it", "many will be called but few will be chosen"

dancek

@JonathonByrd God may and will discipline us, but has that anything to do with salvation?

HedgeMage

Slightly OT: here's the first of the meta posts I mentioned... comments/upvotes/etc welcome. I'd like to ram this home before we see more attempts to start infighting:

0

Q: Christianity.SE vs. Survivor

We've had a couple of questions in the format "Are members of $sect_or_subgroup_or_movement really Christian?", and a few more that are asking that exact question, but trying to couch it in terms that sound more reasonable. Now, I realize that some of you may be reality TV fans, so you might thi...

discussion

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd no I mean everyone. We all continue to be sinful after we are saved.

so if we our works can destroy us they well

Jonathon Byrd

@dancek I believe that will lead to another debate on whether or not salvation is secured once and for all

@waxeagle That deals with repentence. What DIRECTION are you headed?

yes we will continue to fall short "doing what jesus did" but that doesn't mean we have put our preseverance aside and begin to do what is wicked in gods sight

I believe that salvation has everything to do with our ability to love

ok so lets walk through this

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd no it doesnt. However we can't do anything right without grace. As Christians in this world we are already saved, but it has not yet come to its full outworking yet. We are still imperfect beings.

Jonathon Byrd

5:24 PM

Does anybody disagree that we HAVE TO OBEY God through his commandments?

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd No. the law must be kept perfectly

if you can't do that you're going to hell.

dancek

@JonathonByrd no, I don't think that really matters. Think about a father and children. Discipline has nothing to do with whether the children run away from home and abandon the father. And it certainly isn't a message from the father that he is about to abandon the childern.

wax eagle

However. Jesus kept the law perfectly. He has then given that to us.

Jonathon Byrd

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

wax eagle

So whatever we do, even if we break the law a bazillion times we are still saved if we are imbued with the righteousness of Christ.

Jonathon Byrd

5:26 PM

How can you deny what christ has said here?

He is saying how can you call me your SAVIOR and NOT OBEY ME?

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd imputation of Christ' righteousness

Jonathon Byrd

That is like saying that you can accept christ as savior without accepting him as LORD

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd I'm saying its impossible. He knows its impossible

Jonathon Byrd

you cannot do that

dancek

@JonathonByrd look at what else Jesus says in the Sermon of the Mount. Seriously. There's multiple passages there that utterly judges every one of us.

El'endia Starman

5:27 PM

Well, Paul says that "As the Scriptures say,

“No one is righteous—
not even one." ~Romans 3:10 (NLT)

Jonathon Byrd

correct starman, which is why we need faith in christ

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd no its why we need grace

Jonathon Byrd

but faith in christ does not nullify his commands

you guys are nullifying the commandments of God

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd I'm not saying that we don't need to act like followers of Christ btw. I am saying that Christ will save us in spite of the fact that we cannot act like followers of Christ.

Jonathon Byrd

you are saying that you can be disobedient children and you have no responsibility to Listen to Christ

Act like and BE like are two different things

El'endia Starman

5:29 PM

@JonathonByrd But "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?" ~Romans 6:1 (NIV)

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Jonathon Byrd

Exactly elendia, you cannot go on sinning so that grace may increase.

or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

I need to make that bold

or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Do you see that your obedience to Christ leads to righteousness

dancek

@JonathonByrd, from the Sermon of the Mount, words of Jesus:
5:20 *For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.*

Jonathon Byrd

What are you saying @dancek that becuase you do not believe your righteousness can exceed the pharisees?

El'endia Starman

@dancek Perfect! And being righteous was the job of the Pharisees!

dancek

5:31 PM

5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable(AO) to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire.

Jonathon Byrd

2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd they were way more righteous than I am.

dancek

@JonathonByrd you fool, are you saying you've never said "you fool"?

Jonathon Byrd

lol

El'endia Starman

@dancek That made me chuckle. :)

dancek

5:32 PM

5:48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Jonathon Byrd

Romans 16:26
but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith—

dancek

(all from Matthew, ESV)

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd I think the concept of already but not yet applies here. We are already saved, we are not yet perfect. We will be made perfect later

Jonathon Byrd

obedience comes from faith

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd there we go. Any ability we have to obey is a gift from God.

Jonathon Byrd

5:33 PM

so the opposite of that is true as well. disobedience comes from having no faith

If you are saying that you can be willingly disobedient then you have no faith in christ

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd If you sin right now is your soul in jeopardy?

El'endia Starman

@Jonathon: But you're saying that we need to be obedient to enter Heaven? If so, how obedient?

Jonathon Byrd

There is a difference of what direction you are headed in

its about repentence.

what DIRECTION are you headed in

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd hang on my soul lies in the balance of a vector?

@JonathonByrd Do I have to repent of every sin before I die? If so how do I know if I missed one? Or what happens if I sin as my final act on this earth?

dancek

3

El'endia Starman

5:35 PM

@JonathonByrd Galatians 5:17 (NLT) - "The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions. "

Jonathon Byrd

@waxeagle you must repent of wickedness

hhahahaha

and we know that if we follow the desires of our flesh that it leads to death

so lets all agree on something :) WE MUST REPENT OF WICKEDNESS correct?

El'endia Starman

@JonathonByrd Define "repent". :P

dancek

@JonathonByrd define "must"

Jonathon Byrd

turn from wickedness, I will look for a verse

hahahaha

2 Timothy 2:19
New International Version (NIV)
19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

this is repentance

MUST REPENT (turn from) wickedness

Acts 26:20
First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.

a_hardin

So is that a one time command to turn away, or does it apply to every encounter with wickedness in your life?

Jonathon Byrd

5:39 PM

Whenever Jesus entered a town he would tell the people "Repent and Believe" this was his gospel

Iszi

Posted.

0

Q: What lessons could we learn from sites like Judaism.SE?

Religious and other belief-oriented topics are definitely a category apart from the usual science- and technology-oriented ones that are the focus of most StackExchange sites. Where much of the questions and answers here will end up focused on personal belief and opinion (backed, of course, by s...

discussion

Jonathon Byrd

Hebrews 10:36
You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.

El'endia Starman

Welcome @ahardin! You've read all the stuff before this point, right?

wax eagle

@a_hardin I'd argue its continual. The spirit gives us an attitude or state of repentance

Jonathon Byrd

1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

a_hardin

5:40 PM

Yeah, I got caught up the best I could. :)

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd note this is a command to what was effectively a pastor.

so be careful if you want to apply that to everyone

Jonathon Byrd

sure

repentance is a continual act of turning from wickedness against people

is it not?

Iszi

@dancek Yeah, we're probably going to have a lot of that here. By the way, did you know you could post a link directly to the XKCD comic page, and it'll get one-boxed with alt-text and all?

a_hardin

My question was for when someone says "I'm forgiven, because I believe in Jesus, so I can do whatever I want."

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd its a state granted by the spirit.

Jonathon Byrd

5:42 PM

repentence is granted by God, yes. but repentance is proven by our deeds

what WE DO matters

wax eagle

@a_hardin my answer to this is yes and no. You can continue to do whatever you want, but you won't want to.

El'endia Starman

@a_hardin From an earlier reply to Jonathon: "But 'What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?' ~Romans 6:1 (NIV)"

Jonathon Byrd

@waxeagle you cannot continue to do whatever you want

that is where you are dead wrong
Hebrews 10:26-27
New International Version (NIV)
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

El'endia Starman

@JonathonByrd Well, I know that it can be extremely difficult to break from a sinful pattern. Does that mean that I haven't fully repented?

dancek

@Iszi ooh, nice!

a_hardin

5:44 PM

@El'endia that's why we must continually repent. Also why we need others to help us.

Jonathon Byrd

I too know that it is difficult to break from a sinful pattern. And I also know that I repent 7 times a day. God says that a righteous person always gets up and continues to strive to do good. an evil person does not care

So let me ask again. IS repentance required?

a_hardin

some days it's 70 times 7

Jonathon Byrd

We should make that a question

lol hardin

can somebody make that a question, I'd love to post me POV on required repentance

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd The spirit gives us an attitude of repentance. Yes its required, no we aren't capable of actually doing it.

@JonathonByrd sounds like a jeopardy question. ask it and answer it yourself :)

Jonathon Byrd

It's funny how my mom can make me obey but god cannot

thats what you're saying @waxeagle

a_hardin

5:47 PM

it's allowed and even recommended to ask and answer a question yourself

Jonathon Byrd

It's funny how the monks have more obedience to a fake god then christians are capable of to JEsus

that's what you're saying @waxeagle

dancek

@a_hardin though only after seeing that no one else produces a good answer, right?

Jonathon Byrd

you are saying you are not capable of obedience in order to justify your disobedience

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd lol, you're mom can't. God can. He can make you capable. My entire point is that we as people are not capable of doing anything remotely in line with God's law or word without him.

a_hardin

@dancek I'd say yes, allow for others to answer before accepting yourself

Iszi

5:48 PM

@dancek Very. In The DMZ (chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/151/the-dmz) we share the comics enough that the room owner just gave us an RSS feed.

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd no I'm saying that no one is capable of obedience. I'm not trying to justify my disobedience.

Jonathon Byrd

God says that we are his enemies in our unconverted state. That we do not want to submit to him

a_hardin

25

Q: Etiquette for answering your own question

Often you have a question, you can't find the answer on stack overflow so you google (or think a bit more). Having found the answer you'd like to keep a record so you can find it again later. Before Stack Overflow I would write a blog post so I could google for it later. Jeff and Joel I think sp...

discussion answers etiquette

Jonathon Byrd

@waxeagle I'm saying that you ARE capable of obedience I will find the verse

wax eagle

@dancek Feel free to write your own answer in right away.

Jonathon Byrd

5:49 PM

not perfectly of course

but definitely capable

haha

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd I am capable of producing filthy rags. Any obedience I manage to produce is only through grace.

Jonathon Byrd

John 14:24
Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

check out this next verse

it gives use and IF THEN STATEMENT

John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

IF you obey THEN the holy spirit will dwell in you

how can you deny that?

a_hardin

0

Q: Is repentance required for salvation?

I know that through faith alone I am saved. But is repentance a requirement for that salvation as a part of my faith? Is repentance a single act, or should it be continuous?

faith salvation repentance

Jonathon Byrd

nice hardin

allow me a moment to state my case

brb

dancek

Romans 5:8 (ESV) but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

IF you are a sinner THEN Christ has already died for you

Romans 5:9-11 (ESV) Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

a_hardin

5:57 PM

anyone know how to get the blockquote to show a single carriage return on SE? When I enter a single return, it always shows it as one line

wax eagle

@a_hardin are you talking about >? you may need another carriage return

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle @a_hardin: Or a double space at the end of a line.

a_hardin

I just wanted to try to quote something like this biblegateway.com/passage/…

without having to doublespace everything

wax eagle

@a_hardin yeah its a pain. hopefully onebox for biblegateway will come

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle Considering that math.SE has LaTeX support, I'm sure it'll happen. It's just extremely integral to the site.

wax eagle

6:02 PM

@ElendiaStarman yeah it is...and snazzy little math joke there :)

I'm on to you (pets math minor)

a_hardin

heh, math... they had meta discussions on my only question there :P

wax eagle

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.

19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. (Romans 7:14-20).

Gives credence to the not wanting to do sin any more, but still doing it.

a_hardin

ah, yes, that's one passage i really love

I ended up using the code sample markup to keep the original formatting

0

Q: Is pride and boasting ever okay?

We are proud of our son for being able to right his name, and my wife was boasting that she helped him learn to write it. Ultimately, we both know it's from God that he is able to learn this skill and my wife has the ability to teach him. I know that pride and boasting in ourselves is not goo...

pride boasting

El'endia Starman

@a_hardin I immediately saw the "right" typo...

wax eagle

@a_hardin I think it really highlights how someone as faithful as Paul really struggled with his flesh.

a_hardin

6:12 PM

i am not a righter

fixed :P

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle @Jonathon: Whenever you get back, this (fuller) reference is quite important to our discussion.

@a_hardin [chuckle] Good. :)

Wow. A lull in the conversation. :P

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman yeah first one in about 8 hours :)

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle [chuckles] Indeed. We certainly are quite active... :P

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman Heck I spent my entire senior year of highschool arguing reformed doctrine + infant baptism with a couple of girls I went to online school with :).

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle [blink blink] ...wow. :P

wax eagle

6:29 PM

@ElendiaStarman 3 home schooled kids with nothing better to do than trade 5+ page emails :) it was a ton of fun. I ran up a huge phone bill that year...

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle [giggles] Oh, the days when internet was available through phone lines... :P

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman lol yeah...it wasn't that long ago, I was in Ecuador...local calls actaully cost money there..

now you can get broadband even there...

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle Oh, interesting! Where were you from originally?

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman Grew up in Maryland til I was about 15, then on to Costa Rica for a year, Ecuador for a year an a half, texas for about half a year and have now been in the Chattanooga/Lookout Mountain area for the past 7-8 years...

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle Neat. I was born in Kentucky, grew up there, Minnesota, Florida, and North Carolina. I've been here in NC for the past 13 or so years.

wax eagle

6:34 PM

@ElendiaStarman cool.

so sense we ran the last contentious debate out. How about a new one dispensationalism or Covenant Theology? runs and hides

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle I'd go for dispensationalism, but I have no idea what Covenant Theology is.

What the Prophets of Mercy, Regret, and Righteousness believe? :P

Whoops, I meant the Prophet of Truth, not Righteousness.

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman Covenant theology sees the whole of history broken into 2 parts the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. Abraham formed the Old Covenant and Christ's death seals the new one.

Circumcision was the sign of the old Covenant, Baptism the sign of the new one

El'endia Starman

Ahhhh, I see...

By the way, did you get my reference?

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman No I don't think I did

El'endia Starman

Characters of Halo

Recurring characters of Halo are organized below by their respective factions in the fictional universe. The multimedia franchise's central story revolves around an interstellar war between future humanity under the auspices of the United Nations Space Command or UNSC, and an alien theocratic alliance known as the Covenant. The artifacts left behind by an ancient race known as the Forerunner play a central role, particularly the massive weapons, dubbed Halos, built to contain the parasitic Flood. Beginning with developer Bungie's 2001 video game ', the franchise expanded to include the sequ...

wax eagle

6:45 PM

@ElendiaStarman lol haven't played enough Halo to know that :)

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle Clearly not, but "Covenant" made me think of Halo. :P

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman gotcha. that makes good sense.

Jonathon Byrd

Wow... ok I think im done christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/554/…

El'endia Starman

@JonathonByrd ...WOW. Also, the comparison between your answer and the very next one (in terms of length) is quite humorous.

Jonathon Byrd

@waxeagle you said that we could do whatever we wanted, even if we wouldn't want to do it when it comes to sinning. I have posted my answer to "must we repent?"

Can you please post your answer, stating that we can continue to do whatever we want.

@ElendiaStarman haha

wax eagle

6:51 PM

@JonathonByrd Repentance has very little to do with the actions that follow repentance. See the verses I posted above from Paul. that was what I was trying to communicate.

Jonathon Byrd

I dont think i follow that statement

repentance has very little to do with our actions?

a_hardin

I'm going to have to read through that later, Jonathon... I really need to get back to work

Jonathon Byrd

DITTO!

I think i just lost an hour of work

for a good cause of course :)

@waxeagle I would really love for you to lay out your complete view on repentance in that question.

I think we end up bickering over symantics

I'd like to get a full understanding of what you believe.

El'endia Starman

@JonathonByrd *semantics?

Unless you're going for a fusion of semantics and syntax. :P

Wikis At Area 51

Wow, there are some truly great questions here!

Jonathon Byrd

6:54 PM

sure...

lol

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd I will see what I can do. I don't have time right this second (20 minutes left to quitting time) and I'm not going to be home tonight (RPG night!). if I get a spare hour or so tomorrow I will try to lay it all out in a cohesive manner. However I don't think I disagree with you on Repentance. i think I disagree with you on sanctification and good works.

El'endia Starman

@WikisAtArea51 And a lot of them! :P

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman yeah I'm pretty sure if you read HedgeMage's and my chat and the chat Jonathan, I an others have had you can find 10 good new questions for the site :)

Wikis At Area 51

Yes, it's taken off far faster than sci-fi!

a_hardin

@WikisAtArea51 that's encouraging... for humanity in general :P

Wikis At Area 51

6:57 PM

Yes!

a_hardin

nothing against sci-fi. i love it, too. i'm just saying i love christianity more :)

So, would anyone else use a chrome plugin to convert a verse reference into a link+quote on Christianity.SE?

wax eagle

@JonathonByrd please note that "Doing whatever you want" is something of an overstatement on my part. I believe a Christian will show fruit. However I also believe that once saved there is nothing you can do to lose that salvation. I don't believe that someone who is truly a Christian would walk up to someone and shoot them in cold blood. However if they did so they would be forgiven.

Jonathon Byrd

@ahardin can you post another question for me :)

wax eagle

@a_hardin not a good idea. auto oneboxing would be much better. Remember goal is 90+% traffic from search engines (goal for all SE sites)

Jonathon Byrd

@ahardin "Does what we do matter for salvation?" something of that manner

El'endia Starman

7:00 PM

@JonathonByrd Well, [s]he'd have to be careful not to make a duplicate...

a_hardin

sure, i think i can come up with something, and i'll check for duplicates

Jonathon Byrd

@waxeagle you should post on christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/124/…

@waxeagle tell me what biblical basis that you have for once saved always saved

wax eagle

5

A: Are Some People are Created to go to Hell?

Quite frankly Yes. Some people are created to go to hell. However you are looking at this the wrong way. Everyone is going to hell without the intervention of a benevolent God (This is known as Total Depravity). Thankfully God has chosen some people to be his children (Unconditional Election). ...

Jonathon Byrd

@waxeagle please dont take that as a pushy statement

how do you post the full q like that?

a_hardin

posting the link automagically formats it

wax eagle

7:03 PM

@JonathonByrd just post the link on its own line

or in its own post

Jonathon Byrd

7

Q: Once saved always saved. Is eternal security Biblical?

I have always thought that we are onced saved always saved, but I recently was reading Ezekiel and came across this topic three different times. Ezekiel 33 12Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day...

salvation

oh nice

wax eagle

4

A: Once saved always saved. Is eternal security Biblical?

John 10:29 would seem to indicate that if you are truly saved, then there is no way of it being "lost": My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 1 John 2:19 supports this as well: "They went out from us, but t...

this is pretty much what I would post anyways so my answer would be redundant

Honestly lets think about this for a minute. If Christ's death was meant to save us, what does that mean for the power of his death if we can somehow choose not to be saved by it? What does it say about the power of his death to save us if we can somehow become "unsaved"?

Jonathon Byrd

9

A: Does wine really mean wine in the Bible?

First understand people. They will adjusts the literal translations of the Bible in order to hear what they want to hear. They will also interpret the words of the Bible based off of their own definitions as defined by their surroundings without truly finding out what those words meant to Jesus. ...

somebody want to give me one more vote on this so i can get another badge :)

El'endia Starman

@JonathonByrd [chuckles] You already have my vote on that one. :P

a_hardin

ah, man... my virtual machine was aborted :`(

wax eagle

7:11 PM

@a_hardin yuck. I had an issue a few minutes ago where my page kept throwing an error because I passed argument to a method that didn't take one....

I finally saw my error after staring at it and running debugging steps on an off for like an hour..

El'endia Starman

Wait...@Jonathon...are you saying that if we are not obedient, we can lose our salvation?

Caleb

@HedgeMage That's an appreciated gesture, but I think @dancek's suggestion not to use it unless you are sure is sound. Unless you have your own concrete idea of what you think that means, it's going to ring hollow. Of course I don't know the exact context you wanted to use it, but I would have a difficult time swallowing it as a challenge from somebody who didn't fully grok why that is of the utmost importance.

And yes, I think God is a full-on egoist, but that's a story for another day :)

HedgeMage

lol thanks @Caleb

a_hardin

@Caleb I think I can write a question on that

also, I almost said "right" again

HedgeMage

7:26 PM

I left it out -- my point was merely that the infighting was incredibly self-centered, and @dancek seemed to indicate that such a statement would be overkill for the context

El'endia Starman

@a_hardin lol

Caleb

@dancek Eh? Are you hedging your bets or what? <tongue in cheek>

a_hardin

Here you go @HedgeMage

0

Q: Does God need our praise and glory?

From what I've heard, God wants us to glorify him and give him praise, and he enjoys when we do this. Does God need us to do this for some reason?

god glory praise

HedgeMage

@a_hardin Upvoted :)

El'endia Starman

@a_hardin Same.

Now if only I can remember where I read an answer to that question...

Ah, it was The Reason for God. A book which I unfortunately do not have with me.

HedgeMage

7:38 PM

This is why I can't wait to buy the ereader I've been oggling. When I get into a discussion I want my reference materials handy!

Addmittedly, I sometimes succumb to:

and need to learn to take a break.

El'endia Starman

@HedgeMage lol...people here like that comic. :P

HedgeMage

lol, I just saw that it was starred earlier

@dancek I like the way you think :)

Caleb

@HedgeMage Fair enough.

I was/am still a bit behind on the context. I don't know how you're keeping up ... hang in there.

HedgeMage

@Caleb No problem. This is my full-time job -- you're just here for fun. :)

Caleb

8:05 PM

@Caleb Please tell me you laughed, otherwise I'm going to have to go delete that. It's not fair to make fun of how others brand their faith unless they have a context for taking it in fun. I'm not sure whether the struggle to keep things under-the-lid here puts you in a way to take that in fun or exactly the opposite.

El'endia Starman

@Caleb Are you sure @dancek has even seen that yet?

Gonna go take a shower, be back in a few minutes.

Caleb

@ElendiaStarman Actually I got my wires seriously cross between @dancek and @HedgeMage on that whole thing. And this chat room doesn't seem to support the usual delete functionality so I can't even clean up my mess.

a_hardin

8:28 PM

hey guys, question question

Caleb

@a_hardin ...drowning in questions here...

a_hardin

would "What is Tres Dias?" be an appropriate question for Christianity? (or "Walk to Emmaus retreat", etc)

El'endia Starman

@a_hardin ...I'd upvote that question because I don't know what it is! :P

a_hardin

of course, that is one of those questions that can be answered with a simple google search

Caleb

@a_hardin I think that would only be appropriate if you were asking something more specific like "How does Tres Dias deal with the doctrine of X?"

The pure "what is" question is general reference, and this isn't a good time to deal with the "is X Christian".

a_hardin

8:34 PM

agreed

HedgeMage

@Caleb whatever you want me to delete using admin powers ping me about after my conference call :)

El'endia Starman

@a_hardin True.

Jonathon Byrd

I haven't gone back to work yet

ok here's what I have learned in all of my studies

0

A: Does believing in Jesus Christ make me a Christian? Or do I have to do something more?

Allow me to adjust the question slightly. Is salvation based upon faith/belief alone? In order to answer this question we need to better define the word Faith. I believe that in today's society faith has been dwindled down to just belief. So much so, that when people hear the word faith that th...

I've posted my answer to this question, can you guys review?

El'endia Starman

@JonathonByrd Checking it out right now.

@JonathonByrd It's a good answer. I kinda disagree on the idea of the elect, but I upvoted it nonetheless.

Jonathon Byrd

:)

Caleb

8:47 PM

@ahardin: I edited per your comment request. Is it any clearer now what I mean? christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/585/…

a_hardin

@Caleb yes, that's great

I kind of had an idea, but now I fully understand what you mean

Caleb

@a_hardin I added one last parting shot :)

It's not an easy thing to say without crossing into dangerous ground by saying that God has some insufficiency or need that had to be filled in order for Him to be something -- but I think there is plenty of testimony throughout the Bible that God is pretty in-to Himself and His son -- and that it follows that we should be too.

a_hardin

I'm not sure I want to contemplate what the chief end of God is. Stuff like that and "before the universe existed" make me want to curl up in a fetal position and suck my thumb while crying.

El'endia Starman

@a_hardin LOL.

Actually, that reminded me of questions like "Can God make a rock He can't move?" :P

a_hardin

"God knows" moves on

El'endia Starman

8:59 PM

Lol. That's actually a pretty good answer... :P

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