Charcoal HQ

thesecretmaster

2:00 AM

@Shog9 Any idea about timeline? Or should I just check in every 6-8 weeks?

Shog9

@thesecretmaster July-ish?

But probably sooner

at least for bits and pieces

Don't assume shit that relies on happy coincidences (like... cookies...) will continue to work until then

Grant Garrison

@thesecretmaster Wait a minute! That is a meme from that one Meta post!

quartata

More discussion here: github.com/SOBotics/SwiftChatSE/issues/8

Shog9

If you rely on SO/SE's OpenID login in any way, get that info out on meta now - in detail - so we can plan for some sort of fallback.

Otherwise, it's gonna be jetlagged Nick vs. whoever has been blissfully planning to try & hash this stuff out next week.

thesecretmaster

I was just about to update everything, then I realized that there's no non-openid way to log into chat.

quartata

2:02 AM

@Shog9 all bots rely on it to some extent. I trust Art to articulate that extent

Anonymous

It's okay we can just write our own auth providers and hook them in with the OpenID flow.

Anonymous

:|

ArtOfCode

I threw an answer on the meta post. Can add more details if necessary, but will obviously take more time.

Shog9

Definitely don't rely on pinging Nick on Twitter. Good god, the man's dealing with Microsoft and a bunch of techies at some godforsaken conference - have some pity!

thesecretmaster

There's no way around it. All bots rely on it. There's no alternate login flow I can see right now.

ArtOfCode

2:03 AM

@Shog9 Microsoft Building 18, if his latest is to be believed

quartata

rip

thesecretmaster

@ArtOfCode Are you writing a meta answer? If so, point out that there's no non-openid way to log in to chat right now.

ArtOfCode

s/writing/have written/

thesecretmaster

Besides FB or Google

Catija

@Shog9 He's the Twitter king, though... When he and John Scalzi are both off Twitter at the same time, my feed is like a ghost town.

Shog9

2:05 AM

@Catija I've said this elsewhere, but... I'm worse than useless on Twitter. I see like 1% of everything in my feed, 'cause Twitter just ditches it all and shows me the most-liked posts under the heading "in case you missed it"

quartata

i'd rather super glue my eyelids shut than do Google OAuth for it

thesecretmaster

@ArtOfCode Nevermind, I'll write a ChatX answer

quartata

so I guess we'll have to wait a bit and see how the new login form works

Shog9

I rely on stuff that Tim Stone posts in "This is Fine" for all my Twitter satiation.

quartata

hahaha you're not the only one then

Catija

2:07 AM

Well, you follow about 7 times more people than I do, too.

Undo

SE IPs are 198.252.x series, no?

Seeing hits from those on the RSS feed, but no actual posting of stuff

ArtOfCode

@Undo Yeah, I saw this when I built the API RSS. Never got that working, either.

Shog9

@Catija pretty sure they're all mods, or at least SO users. Terrible people.

ArtOfCode

Chat RSS feeds don't seem to accept valid RSS for some reason

Undo

@ArtOfCode o.O

quartata

2:08 AM

try Atom

Shog9

Atom is much nicer to compose anyway

Like someone wrote an actual spec for it

ArtOfCode

Never got the atom version working either :P

Anonymous

Can't you just post /users/login {fkey, email, password}?

ArtOfCode

MS API offers both, neither work

Undo

@JeremyBanks Are fkeys fairly static?

And I thought that required cookies

well... let's look at one that does work

quartata

2:09 AM

@JeremyBanks the trouble is you have to know what site you have a profile on

Anonymous

Ah, that sounds familiar.

ArtOfCode

You do that the same way CE does it. Log into the parent for the chat site you want.

Shog9

@ArtOfCode It's just XML. Write your own that looks like the ones SE generates.

quartata

this is what I did for the minecraft chat relay, but for that I knew it'd always have a Code Golf profile

it'd probably be OK for SOBotics

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link following arrow in body: dotnet core Http Response Header Content-Type lost by SungBae.Han on stackoverflow.com

quartata

2:11 AM

@ArtOfCode stackexchange.com doesn't have it obviously

ArtOfCode

@quartata doesn't have what

quartata

a login route like that. That's why I said it works for SO and MSE but for SE you have to have a site profile you know is there

can't just log in like it's a network thing

Shog9

expect the stackexchange.com login to go away entirely. Don't use that as a replacement.

quartata

exactly.

that one is the OpenID one

Anonymous

stackauth.com/users/login plz

ArtOfCode

2:12 AM

@Shog9 Yep, that's what I based it off. I think the only difference was in date formats

this is the metasmoke feed

Undo

for comparison

Anonymous

I think auto-registering on stackapps would be acceptable. ;P

quartata

Hey

That... could work

Undo

The iOS app knows how to create accounts... useful to Wireshark it?

quartata

I'd have to try and see if logging in via stackapps works

Undo

2:14 AM

There's some super secret route

quartata

@Undo oauth surely

doesn't work for chat

Anonymous

@Undo I mean adding a new profile, not registering a new account.

Undo

App knows how to do that, too

Anonymous

It's one more button to press in the scraping login flow.

Anonymous

"just" "only"

thesecretmaster

2:16 AM

That would work -- or just force bot operators to create the account on stackapps.

Mithrandir

Hmm, what happened to the stack.chat StackApps post

Anonymous

@Mithrandir Deleted it when I ended up not working on it enough.

Anonymous

The code is still on GitHub but it's really incomplete.

Undo

@ArtOfCode Ever try making the summaries shorter? Maybe that's what it chokes on

Anonymous

I was planning to have it do this login through StackApps auto-registration for the SE chat site.

ArtOfCode

2:17 AM

@Undo dunno, probably not

Undo

I'm trying it

Mithrandir

Yeah, just came to mind talking about the different unofficial chat.SE API whatchamacallits

thesecretmaster

Also, anyone interested in helping me with a chat project? I'm trying to build a non-centralized bot network that can do things like failing over without a central server, like MS. No real purpose, but it's fun.

quartata

I had a spec for that somewhere

But I tabled it and now I'm working on Inferno

thesecretmaster

plz send? I'm doing fun things with TLS and mutual auth and stuffs.

quartata

2:20 AM

also people complained they didn't want to open up their ports

tbh I don't know where it is but I have some notes in chat

ArtOfCode

Question: do we want to require 2 feedbacks on posts? I have some time to do that now if we do.

If we do, do we want it on everything or only 300+?

quartata

yes, on everything

ArtOfCode

remember this is retroactive :P

quartata

just double up the feedback on old ones

unless it's conflicted

ArtOfCode

that's not a nice solution

quartata

2:22 AM

in which case it should hit the review queue anyways

@ArtOfCode maybe not, but it's pretty easy

just use user ID -1

ArtOfCode

easy is not necessarily the right solution

like to get @Undo's thoughts on that too

quartata

ok, try "best solution that doesn't involve us slogging through thousands of posts"

WELZ

@ArtOfCode to get autoflagged or what?

Undo

easy is always the right solution

quartata

I mean don't get me wrong we'll do it but

Undo

2:23 AM

But no, what's the question?

WELZ

It seems pretty logical (kinda like suggested edits on main site)

ArtOfCode

chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/43253476#43253476 and subsequent

Undo

have like thirty seconds

@ArtOfCode I'd say 'yes', but not retroactive

Hardcoding a timestamp would work. Ugly, but would work

Gotta go. The 'yes' and 'not retroactive' here is not gospel, I'm fine with whatever details you decide.

quartata

Better idea: anything that has a reviewresult

ArtOfCode

what about 'em

quartata

2:27 AM

Post goes in the review queue if it has zero feedbacks or only one reviewresult

That would have the benefit of pruning the old stuff

ArtOfCode

that's ~600 posts, manageable

quartata

make sure it's not a skip

Anonymous

/users/login can return a form with an s key that can be posted to /users/openidconfirm { fkey, s, legalLinksShown: 1 } to create the new account.

Anonymous

It would be good behaviour to automatically hide that profile too.

Anonymous

Which is posting to /users/hidecommunities/$USERID/hide with { siteId, fkey }. If we don't already have the siteId this would require calling the API or something, and maybe not worth it.

SmokeDetector

2:30 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body: Enhancement The key to including by Sun Mornij on apple.SE

Mithrandir

Why hide it?

quartata

@JeremyBanks good finds

we'd have the site IDs

SmokeDetector

tpu- by WELZ

Anonymous

@Mithrandir Just to avoid affecting the profile in any way as a side-effect of logging in. Most users probably wouldn't care, but some might. Maybe includng me.

Mithrandir

@SmokeDetector k

@JeremyBanks I'll take your word for it

quartata

2:36 AM

So today I learned you can do git+https://github.com/Manishearth/ChatExchange and pip will happily install it

We should do that instead of a submodule

ArtOfCode

can you specify a version with that?

quartata

Yep.

@<hash>

can't believe we missed that tbh

I had no idea

Anonymous

submodules are hellll

quartata

I know right

I won't do it until @ThomasWard is around though since we need a new pip install

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted username, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body, +1 more: This is SB Garcinia, will it work? by BlackHoo1 on hardwarerecs.SE

tpu- by thesecretmaster

WELZ

2:43 AM

@SmokeDetector autoflagged

SmokeDetector

@WELZ That post was automatically flagged, using flags from: Jake Symons.

WELZ

!!/scan hardwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/8919

SmokeDetector

@WELZ Post This is SB Garcinia, will it work? does not look like spam.

thesecretmaster

Art could just mod-nuke

Ah, is gone

ArtOfCode

yeah, I mod-nuked :P

thesecretmaster

2:45 AM

I'm kinda excited for the day when my site is finally big enough to get any spam

We're approaching our 1 year site-anniversary :)

quartata

so... does anyone know the route for changing a room from public to gallery?

or granting access

looks like it's /rooms/save and you post the roomId

and write access is /rooms/setuseraccess/<room id>

Thomas Ward

@quartata you summoned me?

J F

@Magisch I’m not sure if someone pointed this out to you, but you can use k, f, n, and vin FIRE to send the appropriate feedback. You have to hit enter before the feedback/flag is submitted, and the keys are pretty far apart so it should be harder to misclick.

quartata

hey look at that it actually worked

pretty simple

params are userAccess=read-write&aclUserId=<id> (needs to be fkey'd)

to remove you do userAccess=remove

@ThomasWard oh hi

I'm about to make a change to requirements.txt. I'll need you to turn off Smokey, run pip install -r requirements.txt, and start it up

Thomas Ward

!!/location

quartata

2:58 AM

(it'll affect CE is why you have to turn it off)

SmokeDetector

@ThomasWard teward/Solar Flare

quartata

not yet though

SmokeDetector

fp- by Makyen on dotnet core Http Response Header Content-Type lost [MS]

Thomas Ward

@quartata make the change and don't put 'autopull' in the push. We'll do a test-spin with Supernova or Lunar Eclipse, in case it explodes

quartata

ok

Thomas Ward

3:00 AM

that way if it does explode we'll just relaunch Solar Flare

or switch to another instance

eesh this thing was behind... kicks the system

!!/standby teward/Solar Flare

SmokeDetector

teward/Solar Flare is switching to standby (@quartata)

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started in standby mode at rev 782fad3 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of go4trial\.com by iBug --autopull) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

Seth

@Undo your SSL cert for erwaysoftware.com expired almost 100 days ago

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 782fad3 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of go4trial\.com by iBug --autopull) (running on teward/Supernova)

teward/Lunar Eclipse received failover signal. (@quartata)

Thomas Ward

lol

slow system is slow >.>

actually it's that CE invalid int literal problem again

SmokeDetector

Restart: API quota is 19999.

Thomas Ward

3:03 AM

!!/standby teward/Lunar Eclipse

SmokeDetector

teward/Lunar Eclipse is switching to standby (@quartata)

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started in standby mode at rev 21009bb (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of ind99info\.com by Glorfindel --autopull) (running on teward/Lunar Eclipse)

Thomas Ward

!!/location

SmokeDetector

@ThomasWard teward/Supernova

Thomas Ward

!!/alive

SmokeDetector

@ThomasWard Kinda sorta

quartata

3:05 AM

all right well I pushed it

Thomas Ward

eesh that's a nasty set of updates

quartata

hm?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 2689dd4 (quartata: Adjust imports for CE) (running on teward/Supernova)

Thomas Ward

lots of pip module upgrades :P

Shog9

@ArtOfCode took me a bit. You don't want to be using SE post links for the rel=alternate

Thomas Ward

3:08 AM

!!/alive

SmokeDetector

@ThomasWard You doubt me?

Restart: API quota is 19980.

Thomas Ward

!!/location

SmokeDetector

@ThomasWard teward/Supernova

Thomas Ward

@quartata looks like that worked.

quartata

all right good.

I'll need to do that for every instance...

oh also

SmokeDetector

3:09 AM

bwDraco/Linode received failover signal.

quartata

!!/migrate_notifications

SmokeDetector

@quartata shoutouts to simpleflips

quartata

what

oh

Thomas Ward

@quartata MS evil

SmokeDetector

Restart: API quota is 19999.

quartata

3:09 AM

!!/location?

SmokeDetector

@quartata teward/Supernova

@quartata bwDraco/Linode

quartata

!!/standby Linode

SmokeDetector

bwDraco/Linode is switching to standby

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started in standby mode at rev 0233577 (SmokeDetector: Auto blacklist of tinnitus\W?911 by tripleee --autopull) (running on bwDraco/Linode)

Thomas Ward

@quartata it took too long to come back up so MS pushed over. I'll handle Solar Flare and Lunar Eclipse shortly.

ArtOfCode

@Shog9 huh, thanks. Not something I'd have figured out :)

SmokeDetector

3:11 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: "Hello, World!" by a deleted user on codegolf.SE

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started in standby mode at rev 2689dd4 (quartata: Adjust imports for CE) (running on teward/Lunar Eclipse)

Catija

Is there a link that explains why we don't edit spam?

quartata

cool.

SmokeDetector

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 2808d8c: Your tests passed on CircleCI!

ArtOfCode

Okay, changes to require 2 feedbacks on every post pushed.

I went with duplicating feedback. It's nasty, but it does work and it annoys me less than hardcoding a date.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started in standby mode at rev 2689dd4 (quartata: Adjust imports for CE) (running on teward/Solar Flare)

quartata

3:14 AM

@ArtOfCode Do you think that it would be OK to have the bot post the question for a town hall, or do you think it would be better to "voice" (give write access) to the user and let them ask it themselves?

(in the setup I described earlier)

Thomas Ward

@quartata all of my Smokey instances are up with the latest changes, so until the rest are fully updated with the pip updates, feel free to rotate between those three - Supernova, Solar Flare, and Lunar Eclipse

SmokeDetector

[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 2d93ecd: Your tests passed on CircleCI!

quartata

@ThomasWard thanks!

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'NooBskie' created

ArtOfCode

@quartata let the user do it

quartata

3:16 AM

@ArtOfCode all right.

that means that we can't really moderate the questions though

ArtOfCode

huh?

quartata

although it's a lot less work for me

ArtOfCode

we can moderate just as well as we can always moderate chat

quartata

@ArtOfCode well my plan was they'd submit the question via a form during the event. so everyone would see what questions were coming up and if it was abusive garbage we could just drop it before it got posted

ArtOfCode

if it's abusive garbage then the person submitting it doesn't need to be here and will get kicked

quartata

3:18 AM

fair enough

Shog9

@ArtOfCode if you feel like playing with it, here's what chat uses internally

if that can't parse it, neither can chat

the caveat is that your feed parsed just fine... It just tried to onebox or some shit

so make sure your feed doesn't look too much like a SE feed ;-)

ArtOfCode

Ah, gotcha. Cheers, I'll see what I can make with it

got a test running in a test room without the SE links

Thomas Ward

that reminds me that SE's written in .NET compliant code... shivers (sorry, I have bad experiences trying to roll out .NET applications historically... it's why I prefer open source software solutions to .NET/IIS)

Shog9

@ArtOfCode oh hey... This might save you a wee bit of frustration: when you're testing this stuff, keep in mind that chat will only post an entry with a given <id> once per room. Ever.

So... Y'know... If you're generating a bunch of test files, don't re-use the IDs, 'cause you'll be tearing your hair out wondering why the one that just worked 5 minutes ago isn't working now.

Catija

... this has the ring of "I've been there" to it.

Shog9

3:24 AM

what? No. I totally didn't waste like 40 minutes not realizing that.

thesecretmaster

Hm, do feeds need <id>s? That might be why mine are broken.

Shog9

No

Entries do though

ArtOfCode

bahaha, good to know :)

Shog9

Actually, if you're doing RSS they might. I really can't remember. RSS is such a trainwreck.

Atom though... I haven't messed with it in, oh, gotta be over a decade. But I built an entire app around it back then. UI, API, reports, the whole bit. So clean.

Want to love XML? Atom.
Want to hate XML? RSS.
Want to LOATH XML? Soap.

thesecretmaster

Instead of feeds, I propose we mail stickers with each feed item printed on them.

quartata

3:31 AM

soap is awful

can't believe we had to put up with that for so long

xml-rpc too

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, link at end of body, link following arrow in body, pattern-matching website in body: to decrease their extraneous teeth stains from home by JasonLoweo on drupal.SE

tpu- by thesecretmaster

Shog9

The demos were so nice though. Discoverable APIs! Open Data!

(...incompatible formats. inscrutable errors.)

ArtOfCode

If you want to do open data, make all your stuff JSON. In my opinion.

Shog9

If you want to do open data, sanitize that data first. Then pick literally any format that doesn't require it to be sanitized again.

JSON. YAML. XML. CSV...

...in a text encoding that doesn't require you to guess at what character was intended 30,000 records in.

worst part of the XML-fad days were folks shoving unstructured, unsanitized data into an XML shell without doing any cleanup first.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body: How to write regular expression that has any combination of two keywords? by G H on stackoverflow.com

ArtOfCode

3:45 AM

JSON and UTF8 for most of our stuff, I believe

quartata

all right got the chat part of the grill done, now just for the web part

@Shog9 hehe

A J

Morning all!

SmokeDetector

fp- by A J

A J

where are all people?

Why do I have to give the access token to FIRE two times?

Catija

4:03 AM

New computer?

Sometimes when I register it, it takes four or five... so two isn't bad.

A J

@Catija no the same computer. First, I give it a token and feedback, and then if I try to load FIRE popup next time, it doesn't load. So, I have to refresh the page and it asks me for new token.

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'user7156122' created

A J

I am not sure, but aren't we letting spammers know about this Charcoal project, which might make them find a way to post spams we cannot catch? I have no doubt, but this could be a possibility.

or worse, a page to show to their client that their links are visible somewhere.

ArtOfCode

4:22 AM

oh hey Marshal on GD

and a [feature-request] bronze tag badge on MSE

quartata

Any recommendations for an ActionCable-esque websocket server for Python

A J

@ArtOfCode congrats

@ArtOfCode another congratulation. :P

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title, +2 more: gomusclebuilding.com/vandexafil-ultra/ by EdwardGolly on puzzling.SE

tpu- by ArtOfCode

tripleee

4:40 AM

@quartata I tried it a couple of times and it was simple and reasonably pleasant, but I haven't really run it on a public IP address ever

quartata

Do you prefer it over Flask (if you've used that before)?

tripleee

I simply found the simplest thing I could possibly grok and it worked for me, it's not like I build dynamic web sites for a living

quartata

I'm going to build Halflife a dashboard which is why I ask

want something you can work with too

tripleee

like the name implies, it's a simplification of Flask (which in turn I understand is by and large a simplification of Django)

@quartata oooh

quartata

The idea is that Metasmoke will split off into Inferno (storing posts, feedback, doing autoflagging for all bots) + Halflife (specifically our stuff; domain tracking, etc.)

so I'm going to work with the analysis stuff you already have (and keep the websocket of course)

I've got quite a couple things to work on so I can't say a when though

tripleee

4:45 AM

it really should be redone so that it spits JSON instead of raw log output, possibly to a specific websocket path rather than just /

I was thinking I should perhaps structure it into a set of microservices where PulseMonitor would be the "chat front end" and well yours then if it materialized would be a "web front end" (which is not actually something I had in mind; but it sounds nice)

so the websocket could be more granular, listen to /everything and you get roughly the current output, listen to /posts and you'd get just a ping when it receives a new post, that sort of thing?

quartata

The trouble is that we need some stuff stored in a database

Like the domains Metasmoke stores

ArtOfCode

For anyone interested... here's a sanitized copy of the spreadsheet we used to manage stickers

quartata

hence why I was going to build it in Halflife rather than as a client to it

tripleee

@quartata the database back end can still be a separate microservice, just tell me what Halflife needs to send and where

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, username similar to website in answer: SQL Server Stored Procedure - Hotel Management System by thehotelschool on stackoverflow.com

tpu- by ArtOfCode

quartata

4:50 AM

Hmm...

Yeah I suppose that's true...

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +3 more: www.revivalantiagingcream.com/regen-a-cream/ by roniteqwik on askubuntu.com

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, +1 more: Bioflex Pro fdsa by user803007 on askubuntu.com

tpu- by tripleee on https://www.revivalantiagingcream.com/regen-a-cream/ [MS]

tpu- by tripleee

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body: \*\*\* DELETE \*\*\*\*\*\* DELETE \*\*\* by Felipe Solís on serverfault.com

tp- by ArtOfCode

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer: Xcode "Iphone is busy" and won't build VirtualBox Mac OSX 10.11 El Capitan by mytchb on stackoverflow.com

tripleee

github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector/pull/1684 <- add EJoshuaS to SOCVR, anyone with code privileges to approve this please?

SmokeDetector

tpu- by tripleee

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