Sorry. I'm not good at communicating the last few days, and some of the phrases you're using are ones I usually see in dismissive arguments. So I responded out of proportion.

i'm breaking it down into these layers because articulating what you actually want is going to help you get it

but also importantly, it is going to help you discover when it is simply not going to be available.

If you're visiting a Native American territory, you can get a sightseeing tour, and you can try to pick a good tour guide—and part of that is ensure it's an actual native-run tour organisation, so that you get people who know what they're talking about, and so that your money is going back into the tribe rather than some unrelated group's pockets.

However, you cannot get yourself a glimpse of a local perspective from the inside. The locals are busy living their lives and that life doesn't have space for random visitors in it—we equally wouldn't like some random tourist to come to our home uninvited and expect us to include them in your day to day life, invite them to our board game nights, etc.

However, if I'm visiting Northern Italy or coastal Spain, I can definitely get an apartment, settle down in one spot for a week, visit some local attractions, enjoy some local cafes, relax, maybe join in on some local events if I'm confident enough with the language, etc.

the issue comes down to i can only get a local perspective by being a local, and some societies don't have room for me to do that as a relatively casual visitor.

the holidays I've enjoyed, we went to Barcelona and took a couple of walking tours, and we went to Northern Italy in a quiet locale and kicked our feet up at an AirBNB just to relax for a week. We walked around, or rented bikes to cycle around, and saw the local sights, but reserved seeing specific tourist attractions on our way there or our way back.

sometimes seeing the standard sights is an authentic experience. When I went to Gibraltar, we spent an entire day up on the Rock of Gibraltar, and saw everything there we could, and another seeing a few sights around it—I'd say we covered pretty much everything there was to see in that place.

so tldr identify what you want specifically, and some places you can take steps to get close to it and identifying what you want will help you find those steps; some places you can't

@doppelgreener I'm not a concerned party here at all, but this is all really helpful

Hanauma Bay was originally taken care of by the native Hawai'ians; they knew the beautiful fish and reef had to be protected and conserved. They used to use it for fishing - but they were careful to never take too much.

Later, after non-natives came in, they started some development of the area. Paths, bathrooms. Someone went and told the tourist-folks that this was the best snorkeling on the island. Lots of visitors came, walked on the corals and overfished the marine life.

The bay is now a nature preserve, and access is strictly controlled. You must make a reservation beforehand (and the reservations fill up quick), then show up at least 15 minutes before your appointed time (though really earlier, since parking is difficult). Before going down to the bay you are required to listen to a talk & watch a video presentation about the bay's history and rules.

This is the problem with everyone wanting to "see the *real* beautiful sights" is that... not all of them will be careful and kind. Tourists who just wanted to see and snorkel/fish in The Thing, and didn't care what state they left it in, are what forced the bay to stop assuming common sense. Don't hurt the fish, don't hurt the reef, because it is not endless, and we are trying to keep it safe for the future.

(To be clear, the above is not an attack on anyone. Well, at least not on anyone here. I'm salty about the people who hurt the bay.)

@doppelgreener Yep, that's about it - but I'm also travelling with kids, so there is another layer of introducing other cultural practices to them and still getting them to be excited about new things.

But overall, when I travel, I do what I can to not be a Karen tourist, but to enjoy my time, do what I can to help the local needs, and still do what I can to have fun and make it a memorable experience for my kids to remember other peoples and cultures.

@bobble FYI, the overfishing was unlikely a tourist issue. The rest, yes. But overfishing is not usually the culprit from tourists.

yup, I lumped tourists and non-natives a bit. but tourists do/did sometimes fish, I think.

But I'm a hiker and a diver and I understand the importance of no trace behind. Hell, I'm already getting pushback from the family about not wanting them to do 'swim with the dolphins' and things like that. Not a fan. Same with those 'shark dive' operators. Not a fan.

@bobble Yes, but a tourist fishing isn't the problem. Commercial fishing is the culprit there.

Or even the triple threat of tourist, local, and commercial.

I went diving in Jamaica about 16 years ago and it was so unbelievably sad to see no coral. That was from overfishing and divers touching reefs. Mostly overfishing, though.