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1:20 AM
"Announcing Once More into the Void" press release. ONCE MORE INTO THE VOID is inspired by the TV show Star Trek: Picard, and the video game Mass Effect 2. One of the players is a Captain who must make amends, face the consequences of the past, and try to bring back together their old crew. Reminisce about the past, fall in love, get in messy entanglements, see if you can survive the final mission!
sententiae antiquae wrote a twitter thread of "a list of reasons why Campbell's monomyth is problematic."
 
1:44 AM
May The 4th Sale: Space Between Stars by Viditya Voleti is 40% off until Friday. Space Between Stars is a collaborative storytelling roleplaying game about characters who are the crew of a spaceship exploring an unstable universe, dealing with their own internal issues and growing together through shared experiences, one job at a time.
May The 4th Sale: galactic 2e by riley rethal is 20% off until tomorrow. a game of rebellion, relationships, and war among the stars.
Shenanigans by Gabriel Caetano. A minimalist system for resolving challenges in any setting. Made for Tech Jam.
 
In the
d12
 
day of christmas my true love gave to me
Two turtle doves
and a chicken in a palm tree
Bob Newhart, thanks for that
 
Kickstarter: Treasures Of The Troll King: A MÖRK BORG Adventure by Chris Bissette. A sewer-crawl adventure for MÖRK BORG
Kickstarter: A Howl by Native Realities. A Comics Collection of Wolves, Werewolves, and Rougarou. (not a TRPG thing but includes Indigenous TRPG creators)
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Caution: there's a "cinematic game system" on Kickstarter which proudly admits to dramatically underpaying its writers and making it a stretch goal to approach a reasonable baseline pay rate.
I'm briefly reviving "Why Doesn't Your Fantasy World Have" to bring you doggos with backpacks reseeding forests by running really fast
3
 
2:45 AM
Re: underpaying TRPG writers: I just put this together: The Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America counts TRPG writing when considering an author's membership... if the writing earned at least 8 cents per word. So that's an absolute minimum baseline for a professional pay grade if you're looking for one, and paying less than that is actively hurting the industry's health by barring writers from one of the most influential professional writers' groups in the world.
 
2
Q: Which spells are "on the sorcerer spell list" for an Aberrant Mind or Clockwork Soul sorcerer?

Guillaume F.Some magical items, such as spell scrolls, work only if a given spell is on the caster's spell list. For example, the description of a spell scroll states: A spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the...

 
Reliquary by Gordie Murphy. A science fantasy TTRPG about exploring a far future megastructure
"Tabletop RPG Inspirisles will teach you sign language as you play," article by Matt Jarvis for Dicebreaker. Players use ASL and BSL to cast spells in a Celtic-inspired world.
Inspirisles by HatchlingDM. A unique TTRPG that teaches sign language as you play! ASL and BSL included.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:56 AM
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!
 
4:19 AM
Can I please be here and cry for a bit? I won't say anything.
 
would virtual hugs go amiss?
 
I'd rather you didn't.
 
I shall refrain
 
but I appreciate the thought. a lot.
I feel like I shouldn't be saying this because I'm a bad person and don't deserve sympathy.
 
would you like me to argue that you do in fact deserve sympathy? or do you just want to rant into the chat?
 
4:23 AM
No, I was just collapsing in guilt.
 
bobbles quietly into corner
 
bobbles back
I won't say anything else, because the things I say are bad. I'd just like to be here for a bit.
 
I'll share what I'm doing, then
 
Hey, did you do that? Nice work.
 
I am fixing the bad bits of this image, then I'm going to color in the middle appropriately, so I have a gay SHIELD logo :)
then I will make it into a pattern and cross-stitch onto a rug
 
4:25 AM
:-)
oh it's going to be a cross-stitch awesome! used to like doing those.
 
I think I shared a picture of my latest cross-stitch in here at one point. A bunny pillow. I like the repetitiveness and how if I work hard it comes out pretty.
 
4:48 AM
\o/
now I need to extrapolate the rainbow upwards
 
Ooh. What software are you using to make this?
 
Snagit's image editor. Snagit itself is supposed to be for taking screenshots, and it's good at that, but its image editor for those screenshots is magnificent.
 
Oh, interesting. I wouldn't have thought of that!
 
attempting to recreate this pin I had a while back
 
I'm always impressed by people who make beautiful complex things with free/cheap software that really wasn't intended for it.
 
4:53 AM
Not sure about complex - I used the fill tool and then corrected the errors with a 1px-wide brush :)
ah, it's not free or cheap. However, it is free to steal my mom's copy of the software
 
Hah, fair.
I got my start in digital art using my dad's cutting-edge Photoshop 3.0.
 
Well, it must've been better than 2.0!
 
[grin] 3.0 was the first Photoshop to have layers.
 
gasp such advanced features :D
anyways, the bobble must sleep as she has an AP Physics exam on the morrow
 
ttfn! Thanks for sharing your art!
 
5:02 AM
Good luck!
I actually only tried out layers for the first time a few years ago when I switched to Linux which came with GIMP. Before that I just had Paint and an old free edition of Paint Shop Pro, which didn't have them.
I still don't actually use them all that much but when there's something they're useful for, they ARE useful.
Actually colouring something in transparently, for one thing.
@bobble Sorry I disappeared, a thing happened.
 
5:19 AM
@bobble a fellow young crafter! Hi!
(By the way, if you want a really cool thing to play around with, Wolfram Alpha has a thing to make cross stitch patterns from images that I use all the time)
 
@BardicWizard [wave]
 
@BESW hi! Popping in for a sec to avoid dying of boredom
 
I was thinking about your concerns over placing restrictions on tech to make room for rule-breaking magic.
 
@BESW alright, hit me!
(Not literally please)
 
And I think the way I'd do it, is to basically go "when magic is around, the genre rules change." So instead of taking away things that tech can do in an average Star Trek episode, I'd add, say, things that you can do in Star Wars.
Or the things that Star Trek only allows by going "handwave nanotech mumblejumbo holodeck technojargon" and then never do it again after that episode.
But since Star Trek is... well, it doesn't have rules about what can't be done, it justifies whatever the episode needs and then forgets it later...
 
5:29 AM
@BESW as someone who works in tech I'm ever amused in how the Enterprise can survive any malfunction by "diverting power" to the affected components
 
I'd probably instead go with "magic lets you replace the cost with risk of discovery." Because usually there's a cost.
Geordi's visor can do anything but it'll give him a migraine or he won't be able to also see; the Voyager can get home but it will take decades; Discovery can go anywhere instantly but it's killing the galaxy; etc.
Often on a per-episode basis the cost is either "time" or "limited resource," which magic would let you replace with the cost "risking someone noticing that you're magical."
(Retcon: Scotty was a magic-user, which is why he could always cut the cost of repairs so drastically.)
 
@BESW I kinda like the canonical explanation too, that he just intentionally overshoots his estimates
@bobble quite a beaut!
 
5:47 AM
Yeah, that's a good down-to-earth handwave, but still doesn't exactly explain things like the time in Star Trek III that he automated the Enterprise so only the main characters were needed to fly her and she could even do rudimentary battle maneuvers.
 
@BESW I like that idea!
 
@BESW Ok this is true :D
 
Also, you know how Voyager has those experimental "bio-neural gel packs" for power?
 
@BESW As a whole, I think it’s interesting and a good perspective of the role of magic in the story, not just the world; although I’m still not sure what I want to do (blame the utter lack of free time between the end of April and the first week of June), I’m leaning more and more towards either “magic changes the rules of how X works” or “no magic at all”
@BESW yeah, those are weird
 
It would explain a lot if the bio-neural part of those things was based on an attempt by Starfleet to use a biological construct to harness magical power. At the very least it would explain the ship's infinite supply of shuttles.
(Basically Starfleet went "magic is controlled by brains, can we make something that's enough like a brain that it controls magic?")
Bonus points for the potential of the ship developing sapience and becoming a character.
 
5:58 AM
@BESW Hmmm.... pros: I get to deal with identity issues (for mages and sentient ships), politics in science, and I get to draw sapient ships! Cons: none. I think I might go with that idea!!
(There are honestly prob cons, I just can’t think of many)
 
Now I'm imagining that magicians assigned to the ship get a big shock because the ship is all "You're magic? I'm magic! Samesies!" and then helps them use their magic to help out without getting caught.
 
@BESW aww, that’d be cute!
Anyways, goodnight, don’t let the ap tests bite!
 
ttfn
 
Bye
 
6:16 AM
Any ideas on how to make this question stackable? rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/184738/… I'm at the point where I feel that it is so stackable that I don't see the issues raised - to me, they, unfortunately, sound like misunderstanding the question.
Which isn't a good viewpoint to have.
 
6:53 AM
Honestly Star Trek are always nine-tenths of the way to having magic anyway, they just call it psychic.
 
7:03 AM
@Akixkisu Regarding the question, I think it's what the people in the comments said - it is too vague. I don't have a clue how to answer it myself. All I can really make of it is "We left a thing accessible that shouldn't be. What's a convincing way to take the thing out of play - knowing nothing about what the thing is, whether people, money, goodwill or rocks, nor whether it's indoors or outdoors, nor whether the island is in the Stone Age or on an alien planet in the year 4000?"
 
@A.B. none of which you need for a conceptual level solution.
 
Well, add a thing that gets in the way.
Does that answer your question?
 
But no, there is no need for a "convincig way to take things out of play" it is not what I'm looking for. It is very specific about how to fix broken gating under set circumstances.
@A.B. that could be an answer if the concept works.
 
What concept?
 
I don't know, it is your answer.
 
7:11 AM
Well, if you want specific details, I don't know either, because I can't tell you what would successfully get in the way not knowing whether your party are wizards or what.
Literally all I know is "arctic island".
Also,
> But no, there is no need for a "convincig way to take things out of play" it is not what I'm looking for. It is very specific about how to fix broken gating under set circumstances.
In the question:
> we thought about introducing an event that seals off the resources that we shouldn't have been able to access in the first place.
The question appears to be asking exactly that. If you meant something else the question needs to be reworded.
 
I'm looking for a concept level solution, not a concrete solution.
 
Well, "add a thing that gets in the way" is my answer, then, at the same level of specific-ness as your question. What kind of thing, I could not say, without knowing anything about the circumstances.
 
I'm not sure what "concept level" means when you use it that way.
 
I'm trying but this is a bit impossible. You know the facts about all this, the people trying to answer don't. I can see why it would be good to make it as broad as possible, that way the answers will be useful to more people, but I think this is too broad to work.
@BESW Neither do I.
At any rate, I think you should also take out the "feeling cheap" part, as it seems to be causing confusion. You've already got the much more specific "without breaking immersion or having to backtrack, handwave it, or redo any sessions", it looks like you'll do better to leave it at just that.
 
"Nuclear-powered superlizard gets in the way" is a concept, while "Godzilla takes a nap in your resource spot" is a concrete solution. But I think you're using "conceptual level" to mean a table-level mechanical structure that you can add to your game's toolkit for solving this and future similar problems. So "use the Atomic Robo 'brainstorm' mechanic" is a concept, but... so is "nuclear-powered superlizard gets in the way" if you take it as a recurring game design principle.
Do you want a table of obstacles that would be plausible to add to any scenario? Is that a "conceptual level solution"?
 
7:24 AM
@BESW I think use the "Atomic Robo 'brainstorm' mechanic" is what I'm looking for.
And why does it work, how does it work.
I toyed with asking a game design question initially, but that is not the actual problem, but maybe I'm wrong.
 
Do you see how your question is open to the other kinds of answers?
 
No, which is why my viewpoint is problematic.
 
You're using a compound phrase to mean a very specific thing that I'm guessing comes from some field of expertise you're familiar with (a google search suggests it's common in data abstraction).
 
Yes.
 
Good guess BESW, it didn't even occur to me that the words "concept level" referred to game mechanics, although that could just be ignorance of RPG detail.
 
7:26 AM
And you're expecting people without that context to intuit what the phrase means, rather than breaking it down into less field-specific terms.
This is not a place where we can assume people are familiar with data abstraction jargon.
 
And I can't look behind it which is frustrating.
 
Or more this-field-specific terms. Getting the words "game mechanics" into it somewhere would probably help a lot.
 
It's an especially difficult term to decode because you're saying you don't want to break immersion, but you're asking for table-level mechanics rather than narrative-level story elements.
 
Deleting and workshopping might be the best step.
 
So you're asking for mechanics that don't break immersion? Which is a tall order at the best of times but you also don't tell us what qualifies as immersion-breaking for your table.
 
7:29 AM
Thanks, that helps.
 
eg, I think the 'brainstorming' mechanic is great and qualifies as not immersion-breaking because it's asking players to use their character's stats and abilities to create new truths about the world.
But I've talked with people who think it's inherently immersion-destroying because it's asking players, not GMs, to create new truths about the world.
 
@BESW that is simple and a great way to go about it.
Which works because we are gm-less.
That might be the best answer.
 
For your case, I'd probably mash up brainstorming with mission briefings in a way that worked in whatever system you're using.
 
@BESW awesome, that is exactly what I'm looking for, thank you.
 
[grin] I love it as a GM when I can throw some weird problem or situation onto the table and then turn to the players and go "explain that, because I can't."
Atomic Robo is built around exactly that kind of story, and its mechanics do a good job encouraging and supporting those narrative beats.
@Akixkisu I think you're the first person who's said "can't break immersion" to me and then thought those mechanics were a good fit for their game.
 
7:37 AM
@BESW what exactly is Atomic Robo?
They fit the situation well.
Is it the tool that you linked or is there a system/toolkit tied to it, I suppose.
 
Atomic Robo is a long-running comic series about a sapient robot and his friends and co-workers, who use combinations of science, combat, and intrigue to keep the world safe from Weird Science Stuff.
 
Ah, it is a comic series, comics are such a dautingly vast field.
 
Atomic Robo: The Roleplaying Game by Evil Hat is the franchise-licensed TRPG based on the comics. It uses an expanded and complexified variation of Fate Core.
Brainstorming is one of the sub-mechanics added to Fate Core for ARRPG, and Mission Briefing is a sub-mechanic added in the expansion book Atomic Robo RPG: Majestic 12.
 
Thank you.
 
Fate Core is freely available as a PDF or SRD, and some elements of the Atomic Robo game like those sub-mechanics were also added to the SRD.
Hence my ability to link you to them directly on the SRD site.
The comic series itself is also freely available online at the first link.
(The comic is written by Brian Clevinger, who is better known to a certain generation as the 8-Bit Theater guy.)
@Akixkisu Given your campaign, you might also find the invention mechanic useful. I've built entire campaigns around applying it at a macro scale.
 
7:51 AM
@BESW we are using a variation of that mechanic :)
 
For example, I presented the party with a problem: an extrasolar object the size of the moon was hurtling toward Earth, emitting strange signals. They decided that the best thing to do was go into space and land on the moon and see what's up with it. But they didn't have a spaceship which could reach it safely and in time.
So the first part of the campaign was a series of adventures, each dedicated to getting something they needed for the spaceship: super-powerful heat shield material from a hell dimension, so they could fly closer to the sun; a nuclear goldfish to power their engines; the preserved brain of Charles Babbage to serve as the ship's computer; and so on.
 
Uh, I like the nuclear goldfish.
 
Each adventure was built around meeting one of the "costs" of the invention (spaceship), and it had many costs because it had to be so awesome.
And one of the costs was unwanted attention from various other groups. A tech mogul who wanted to suppress the things we'd find on the rogue moon; a cult that believed the moon was a herald of apocalypse.
So that's where our antagonists came in; the thing we were doing defined the "enemies" that we'd have to get around in order to succeed.
 
I like that. We are doing something that is narratively a little more limited, the hook is somewhat similar to Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow.
 
8:07 AM
Yeah, in the end one of the downfalls of the campaign was its open-endedness. We didn't calibrate regularly enough and each person's sense of what the world was like drifted away from each others' until it started to stretch too thin.
 
It does sound like you had a great time while you were at it though :)
Calibration takes effort to maintain. One of the issues that I tend to run into is that we assume that we are calibrated when we aren't.
 
Aye, that seems to be a very common problem, especially in games that are GMless or have rotating GMs or otherwise distribute worldbuilding to the entire group.
I was the lead GM of that campaign, which meant that I introduced the initial problem and facilitated setting up the making-a-ship invention and its requirements and costs. Then I could hand off GMing to whichever player had a cool idea for how to address a requirement or cost that week and wanted to run it.
 
It is so easy to think about something in your framework and have it make sense when you misunderstand where someone is going with it in their framework.
 
If we'd been actually playing in an Atomic Robo world that would've helped, as an external touchstone we could all calibrate on.
But, well. This was my personal influence map:
 
@BESW Do you usually create them, or are there any particular circumstances that entice you?
 
8:21 AM
I'd like to do them more, because they make me think about my games in ways I wouldn't otherwise.
But that also means they're rather intensive on the brainpower so I often don't.
I made that one specifically because it was such a big weird world that I needed to be very deliberate about keeping it coherent in my brain.
 
I'm bad about them, I sometimes use mind-maps, but I rather use mnemonics (scribles, words, symbols).
But those require me to be in that headspace.
 
I got this particular template from an artist on Deviantart who used it to collect their thoughts and ideas for a project, or to reflect on their artistic style as a whole.
I should probably make some influence maps for some of my nascent game systems, to try and nail 'em down a bit more.
 
It probably has to do something with that I use several organising tools for work, and my brain then ties them to work, which doesn't look appetising when I want to be in my free time headspace.
 
That makes sense!
 
8:37 AM
One of the worst ideas that I had was to use carnap.io for puzzles - doing it slurped all of the fun for me.
 
> Yeah, in the end one of the downfalls of the campaign was its open-endedness. We didn't calibrate regularly enough and each person's sense of what the world was like drifted away from each others' until it started to stretch too thin.
Could you tell me anything at all about how you went about "calibrating", as you put it (if I'm not interrupting)?
I often feel in role-playing games as if I've lost track of what the GM and the other players think the world is supposed to be like, so some tips might be useful.
...OK, I looked at the "influence map", but I'm none the wiser :-D
Maybe I should try writing down all the various groups and adversaries that are going on in the Vampire: the Masquerade game I'm currently in, and see if that helps.
I didn't realise at first that the things you'd posted after that did relate to that. Reading in a hurry.
 
8:53 AM
@A.B. VtM comes somewhat pre-calibrated thanks to having lore pre-written. There is still some uncertainty due to some authors not checking with each other and producing contradictory descriptions. And because some important questions are undefined. But at least it offers some kind of unified baseline in the lore sections of the books. The core and the Guides are probably the best places to start, as everything else will be much more situational.
 
Hi vicky_molokh!
It's more what's going on that I'm vague about. It's living world, so there's a lot of things spilling about in different places.
 
/me waves its pedipalps in greeting.
@A.B. Well, for a living world, it's harder to immediately know what's going on, but that makes sense IC too if you're a neonate arriving into town.
 
Except that it's never that simple, is it? At least, it never has been any time I've tried the "new in town" idea in any game. I've got to make the circumstances of how I got there fit the context of a lot of things I don't know.
 
For a typical Camarilla game, I'd expect entering a new PC into a living world to involve:
- Agreeing with the GM on some sort of off-screen NPC contact vouching for the PC;
- PC coming to the Elysium to introduce itself to the Prince (if there is one);
- Start finding people to talk to and asking how's life, what are the news &c.
 
That makes good sense. I kind of already know all that, but it sounds much more viable when you write it out like that. (It's Anarch, but not in a way that seems to make a lot of difference).
Thanks very much.
Hmm.
 
9:00 AM
Well, is there a Baron?
 
There is, and I've recently finally managed to get my character in the same room as him.
 
A barony is probably slightly easier to handle in terms of etiquette and laws than a Camarilla domain or a Sabbat town.
What's your PC like anyway?
 
@BESW Grabbed this for Sci-Fi chat
 
9:17 AM
@BESW I'm probably being ignorant, and I fully agree that monomyth is not a complete view on stories, but it always seems to me that it's the use of the monomyth that is problematic. Like saying that the problem with carpenters hammering in screws, is with the hammer. Yes, there's too many hammers and it's too easy to pick one up. In that sense it's missing it's robot head,
but otherwise I'm not seeing the core issue with the monomyth
@A.B. You're always welcome, and I appreciate your candour.
@BESW definitely weird
 
9:36 AM
@AncientSwordRage I can't actually find the message you're replying to 😅 but thanks.
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica As usual, I have the problem of not knowing what my character is like.
 
@A.B. Well, you did already fill in a sheet nonetheless, yes?
 
Yeah.
 
Clan, Archetypes, Flaws, Disciplines?
(Err, Archetypes might be wrong edition.)
 
I made the mistake of making him a newly turned vampire and he doesn't know what happened to his sire. I'd seen somebody else do it and I thought it was clever at the time.
Malkavian (the variant kind). Dominate, Auspex and Obfuscate.
I am playing V20, but I skipped the Archetypes because they were doing my head in and nobody said anything.
Flaws, only Compulsive Counting and New Arrival.
 
So sireless. Which probably is a non-issue in Anarch space.
Figuring out what's up in the town, and finding whom to ally with (or whose protection to seek) for pragmatic reasons seem like . . . well, maybe not good, but certainly playable and scene-generating, ways to start out.
 
9:43 AM
I don't know about V20 but in old VtM and VtR the books I've seen it recommends the story teller introduce you to the world by roleplaying how you became a vampire
 
Living world, so probably very low GM:player ratio.
 
Doesn't seem to happen in this one. Yes, what V.M. said.
 
(Jumping into a living VtM world for a short while was one of my early steps in the roleplaying 'career'.)
 
And the more I try to think about it the more I think my backstory doesn't hang together.
 
@A.B. Well you have the Malkavian/Joker excuse for that if you need an emergency excuse.
 
9:49 AM
Hah, I do keep reminding myself of that. Either as an excuse for his sire doing something that didn't make sense, or even for what he said was the backstory not actually being true.
 
10:08 AM
@A.B. (I was in that game) The influence maps were something we made right at the start, during our sessions where we were just talking about and building out what our world was going to be. We were noticing we had some diverging ideas about what it could be like. Creating influence maps helped us identify our influences in what we were thinking to basically show "it's like this stuff". Influence maps have you sort things into major/minor influences by how much space they take up.
 
@doppelgreener this is great
@BESW did you use a specific tool for this or was it more generic like Photoshop?
 
@AncientSwordRage we didn't have a specific tool. we used photoshop, mspaint, google docs, whatever. BESW did all that fancy cropping and stuff on his one himself, the rest of ours were less impressive. :D
One problem we bumped into was some of us didn't have the means to really create those
 
10:25 AM
@doppelgreener that's an issue... Until now I assumed it was completely collaborative
@doppelgreener still seems worth doing though
 
10:40 AM
@AncientSwordRage I offered to make them for anybody, if they gave me the pictures.
I had this idea, which never quite materialized, that we'd look at all our images and make one collaboratively that would represent our shared overlapping vision.
@AncientSwordRage I used Photoshop, mostly, for mine. These days I'd try to make a template which everybody could use, in something like Google Docs.
@AncientSwordRage That's point 2a in the thread, but also even as an analytic tool rather than a creative recipe it makes the destructive choice of being a monomyth. That is, the very notion of a universal structure to storytelling is, itself, a tool for flattening and de-nuancing whatever story it's applied to (and by the people the story is about and the culture that story exists in), whether forwards (as a writing tool) or backwards (as an analysis tool).
 
10:56 AM
@BESW those are good points
 
By looking at existing stories through the lens of the monomyth, we miss all the things in the stories which Campbell did not see.
 
@BESW that is an excellent point
 
We dismiss the patterns unique to a culture as trivial deviations from a universal truth rather than as important qualities of that culture's sense of story.
 
I wanted to look at review queue voting patterns (close-, and reopen review queues) of select users, and I'm sure that there is a query that shows reviewers by total votes and split by action, but I can't find it - does anybody have that one handy?
 
@Akixkisu is that not private mod-only info?
 
11:00 AM
So, all those things in the twitter thread? Like how the monomyth is heteronormative, relegates entire swathes of society to the role of tools for the growth of the narrowly-defined hero class, doesn't teach us how to die or be parents, all those things?
 
@AncientSwordRage skips might be, but general votes are public information after you earn the privilege.
 
By virtue of claiming universality, to use the monomyth as an analytical lens is to dismiss stories about those things as aberrant, as deviations.
 
I guess I'm coming from a point of view where I know it's not universal, so I forget that's how it was designed and continues to be portrayed
@Akixkisu but there might be stuff about aggregating data?
 
Aye. The monomyth would be much less of a problem if it were simply a way of describing a kind of story, rather than a mould by which all stories are to be defined by their deviation from its form.
 
@BESW I wonder what that schema would look like?
@BESW On the topic of 'narrowly-defined hero class', have you ever seen Yonderland?
 
11:06 AM
It might be a bit better if it was like "hey, all these stories share this in common, crazy right?" without going "and i theorise every story fits these, uhh, ignore that this one reverses these steps, and ignore that this one skips several steps to go do something else, and ignore that these don't fit at all"
 
@AncientSwordRage how would that be an issue? I can visit any user's profile and look at their actions.
 
@Akixkisu ::shrug::
@doppelgreener yup
You see this in linguistic 'universals'
 
@AncientSwordRage rpg.stackexchange.com/users/2788/… like this.
 
@AncientSwordRage the influence maps are individual, they're a way of getting what's going on in your head and putting it out on paper as a communication tool. BESW's idea to make a collaborative one was pretty great.
 
@Akixkisu Arghh all my secretsss!
 
11:08 AM
we didn't wind up doing it though like he says
 
@AncientSwordRage evil close vote rpg.stackexchange.com/review/close/903 ;)
 
mixture of some people not getting theirs done, us not being sure how to make it happen, disparity in our influences, etc
 
@Akixkisu The tool is diamond only, even if some of the info may be public. Can I ask why you're after this?
 
@Someone_Evil curiosity after KRyan's community-check-in post.
 
8
Q: How do you teach someone else how to play D&D?

Keerthik MuruganandamSomeone I know recently expressed interest in playing D&D. This came at the perfect time because I and some other friends were about to start a D&D 5e game. The problem is, I don't know how to teach this person the game. Usually, my advice is, just read the PHB, but the person in question isn't m...

 
11:12 AM
@HotRPGQuestions [does a double take on the avatars]
 
The natural step would be to look at the recently most active community member voting patterns.
 
And compare that with older voting patterns.
 
@doppelgreener That's star of extinction from Ixhalan isn't it?
 
@Akixkisu I've been rumbled, and it only took ~6.5 years
 
11:14 AM
@Someone_Evil it is!
 
@Akixkisu That sounds like you need SEDE for, though I'm not entirely sure what information you're actually trying to dig out of that data
 
@Someone_Evil yes, I thought that there was a sede query for that, but I might misremember.
 
@Someone_Evil I've only just noticed that
 
@Akixkisu There are some (vague, contradictory) legal precedents about converting scattered but publicly available information into consolidated databases of information, that so dramatically changing its accessibility can be transformative enough to cross the public/private barrier.
For a rough comparison, somebody leaving their kitchen window open is not permission to print a photo of their kitchen on the front page of the newspaper.
 
@BESW maybe, perhaps there is a difference in the close/review queue information that doesn't apply to the suggested edits information.
 
11:27 AM
That is: There are levels of public access and it can be invasive to change someone else's choice of what level they're operating at.
I have no particular rigorous opinion on the immediate situation, but I think it's important to be sure we don't go "public is public and all kinds of public are the same," and instead make choices about it thoughtfully.
 
if someone went and compiled my review queue history and compared it with that of other specific individuals without our consent, I'd be asking "what are you doing? please stop?"
aggregating various peoples' data including me without identifying them would be something different and much more OK
 
@doppelgreener Then you might want to alert someone on meta about the suggested edits review queue.
 
i am fine with those lists existing, they serve important purposes for auditing what's just happened. what I'm saying here relates to what BESW just said.
 
For instance you can access "Akixkisu has approved 131 edit suggestions and rejected 37 edit suggestions and improved 8 edit suggestions" at any time.
And compare that to any person that you want.
Not sure if we are talking about the same thing though.
As the worry seems to steem from large data collection/comparison/distribution.
 
You understand there's a difference in both scale and aggression, between my comparing your review history with Greener's in the privacy of my own brain, and my publishing that comparison on meta to make a point?
 
11:37 AM
Of course, does somebody want to do that?
 
We are operating on the impression here that it is you who wants to do that.
 
When people start running SEDEs for info on specific users' behavior, it usually winds up on a contentious meta post.
So, you know. Getting out ahead of that with a general warning about being fully informed when making that choice.
 
I'd also say that if you're looking into a single users actions and are planning on doing anything publicly, you shouldn't.
 
As I said, I'm curious to look at the data and compare it. I can add that I have no intention to aggregate it to distribute it.
 
If you so believe something unsavory is happening, bring it up to the mods to handle.
2
 
11:47 AM
I would probably not bring it up at all, even if something unsavoury was going on (unless it was so severe that I felt dutybound to do so - which seems implausible).
But that is also not what interests me, so I don't think I would even notice anything.
 
Changing subjects, if I'm able to pull myself together, I may try an edit on your gating question
My comment was trying to help guide, but it looks like I wasnt clear
 
@NautArch My question resolved, but if you think there is a particular use in reviving it (other people gaining insight?), then I'm curious about your framing. So if there is anything else, please do prioritise that.
 
@Akixkisu If the solution we derived proves helpful you might consider making it a SAQ.
 
^^
 
@NautArch We had a productive conversation in chat earlier.
 
11:57 AM
But should still clean up the question itself.
Yah, read through that @BESW. I still think it's stackable in my.mind and a good example of a system agnostic issue.
 
It's interesting because it's arguably sys-ag but aggressively not style-ag.
Yet tagging for style has always been a losing proposition.
 
I think me writing that doesn't get it anywhere without some heavy workshopping, I don't have the distance for that.
 
12:11 PM
Aaaaah somebody just listed Goblin Court as one of their three most personally influential indie TRPGs.
 
@BESW congrats
 
12:23 PM
Thanks! I'm still flabbergasted by how strongly people respond to it.
 
@BESW Wooo!
 
@BESW It must be popular, it comes up 4th (or 3rd, depending on how you look at it) in a google search, just after an entry for All the Crossroads and two entries for a novel of the same name
 
@Akixkisu made a substantial change and prompts for info - what do you think?
 
12:42 PM
@NautArch It seems like a conducive approach, I will look at if I can workshop it with your template.
 
@BESW mazel tov!!
 
@BESW I still have to play it at some point!
from everything I've heard, it deserves its accolades
 
The reception is so wild to me. Like, yeah, I put a LOT of effort into polishing it up, but the idea and core text was more like a thing that happened to me than something I made, and it was sparked by a really lame bit of wordplay.
But it's soft and silly and that can be radical, and that's a good thing to get reminded of.
 
@Akixkisu those, conceptual, are tough questions to frame on this stack; @vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica has had some success with them after a lot of trial and error. Maybe ask them for an edit to help?
 
@BESW Well, don't feel to bad about that, puns are the backbone of the entertainment industry
 
12:52 PM
@BESW I've recently had similar experiences, can relate. It's funny how sometimes it's the things done half in jest that stick well :) Congratulations!
 
(The wordplay isn't visible in the final game, it was just the impetus that made my brain go floppity and start chugging away.)
 
floppity-chug is my favourite brain mode
 
It's also my favorite spoiled dog in the James Herriot stories.
 
"the idea and core text was more like a thing that happened to me than something I made" this is the sort of thing people wish they could harness
 
Yeah, but you can't. Professional creativity comes from learning how to keep making while your brain refuses to chuggity.
 
1:02 PM
yes, so much yes
Tom Scott said in a video, the way to be successful is to just keep creating and see what sticks
 
I still haven't figured out how to make my brain keep going without the chuggity in TRPG-design spaces.
I'm stalled on several projects I'd really like to work on.
 
1:25 PM
write down rubbish and go back and fix later?
 
1:39 PM
@AncientSwordRage that's how my English professor suggested we write. Unload it all and then come back later to organize it, cull it, amplify it, etc. Granted, that advice is over 40 years old, but it's a way to do it
 
1:50 PM
@KorvinStarmast definitely
 
"just sit down and write"is still the recommended methodology. With the addendum of making a specific time to do so. Routine helps.
 
2:04 PM
@KorvinStarmast I'm not convinced they were fighting actual giants.
 
@NautArch The lowest CR creature that is actually a giant is the CR 5 Hill Giant
 
@NautArch Might have been ogres, but 8 ogres is still a significant chore for 5 level 2s.
 
They haven't said anyone died...very fiahy
 
5 level 2s?
With a deadly threshold of 1000 xp, 8 CR 5 hill giants comes in at 36000 xp.
8 CR 5 Hill Giants is a deadly encounter for 5 level 16 PCs.
 
An ogre is CR 2/450 xp. 8 ogres would be 3,600 xp
 
2:21 PM
@RevanantBacon I added that as a possible source of misunderstanding
 
@RevanantBacon Would probably tpk 5 level 2s.
 
There's no way that a handful of lvl2 PC's (plus a lvl 3 wizard apparently) beat a group of hill giants
 
@ThomasMarkov Yep, 8 ogres versus 5 level two PCs means "avoid, parley, live to fight another day" for most groups.
 
I think there was probably some exaggeration and/or hyperbole in that question
 
@BardicWizard I'll probably be using this once the image is complete, thanks! You've saved me the step of searching around to find a good converter :)
 
2:29 PM
@RevanantBacon It's been a bit of a challenge to get the asker to clarify what's going on, see the chat / comment stream that Someone_Evil moved to it's own chat room
@ThomasMarkov Just gonna say that our five level 11 characters wiped the floor with 7 hill giants in our first encounter in Against the Giants (hmm, 2016 ish) - spells like animate object, hill giant low armor class, and a few good tactical moves like our monk using stun to good effect broke up their group and we defeated them ... though I think my Champion was a 19 HP when the fight was over.
 
Animate objects solves the action economy discrepancy.
 
Hmm, lemme check encounter diff on that ... 18,000 for deadly versus 31,500 adjusted. Between Deadly and 2x deadly. Yeah, seems about right.
 
Animate objects is a reallllly powerful spell.
 
Higher level parties stand a much better chance at overreaching those estimates though, no?
 
@Someone_Evil In my experience, PCs progress faster in strength than the xp thresholds suggest.
I also often feel like there is little difference in CR 20-25.
At that point, party composition and caster spell selection is a much better indicator of performance than level and CR.
5 level 15 PCs vs. a CR 23 boss. How do they do? No idea until you tell me who they are and who theyre fighting, it can range from TPK to Medium encounter depending on the builds and the enemy.
 
2:41 PM
@Someone_Evil Yes, the number of variables involved as more magical spells come on line and action economy gets wrinkled makes Tier 3 and above play hard to estimate using that table. (Thank goodness for legendary actions). My brother is grappling with this as we hit level 8 in our group; and it's been hit and miss for him ..
@ThomasMarkov not to mention a few magic items. My warlocks single {treasured} magic item (Wand of web, uncommon item) was a huge tactical benefit to our party from levels 5-8. Punched above its weight, it did. She's about to hit level 9 and still has it attuned.
 
@ThomasMarkov Just a 5th level monk punches (hah!) above their weight against single targets and bosses
 
@Someone_Evil Stunning strike is realllllly good.
 
@ThomasMarkov I was tempted to take it, but my bard is so full of concentration spells that I didn't. But I did take Wall of Force and Bigby's Hand at level 10. Dominate Person and Greater restoration at 9 and 10 for bard spells.
@ThomasMarkov unless the dice hate the monk and the enemy keeps making con saves
Seen that happen once, but only once
 
@KorvinStarmast I cant play a bard and not take find greater steed at 10.
 
@ThomasMarkov I chose not to succumb to that temptation. 😁 I can summon four Giant Eagles if we need to fly somewhere for an hour.
 
2:46 PM
On Critical Role, Beauregard has broken encounters with stunning strike several times.
 
@ThomasMarkov yeah, the group I DM for (brother's world) has a monk who has on numerous occasions made encounters easier with a few stuns. When he remembers to do it ...
 
@ThomasMarkov All Wizards, all Evocation specialists, all with the Elemental Adept(Fire) feat. Fireball has been prepared.
 
Is the boss immune to fire?
 
@RevanantBacon Right, setups like that using disintegrate can kill anything.
 
@Someone_Evil He better hope he's immune to fire :p
@ThomasMarkov Yeah, OP spells are OP
On a related note (and I'm pretty sure there was a question on this) if someone has one of those artifacts that allow them to downgrade immunity to a particular type of damage to only resistance, does that combine with Elemental Adept to allow ignoring it completely?
 
2:55 PM
I dont understand Mordenkainen's Sword.
 
What about it is confusing?
 
@RevanantBacon The part where it's 7th level and worse than spiritual weapon.
 
Oh, yeah, I don't get that either
 
@RevanantBacon Related funny question of mine: rpg.stackexchange.com/q/174987/62294
 
@ThomasMarkov yeah, they gooned that one up. We had a thread at GiTP a while back about what a lousy choice for a spell that one is.
 
2:58 PM
Is it the worst spell though?
 
@KorvinStarmast We have a Q&A on that too. And a few on attempts to fix it
 
Off the top of my head, I cant think of any worse choice, except maybe true strike
 
@ThomasMarkov I think Detect Evil and Good is up there for worst
 
@RevanantBacon There's at least a campaign specific use for it.
Like, I could write an adventure where it would be good to take.
 
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