TRPG General Chat

A. B.

00:00

Hello everyone.

Good story about the potions :-D

Hot RPG Questions

00:23

2

Q: Can arcane abeyance hold ritual spells?

If a level 10 chronomancy wizard ritual casts water breathing could they use arcane abeyance to put it in a bead for later?

Ben

@A.B. [wave]

A. B.

waves

Ben

How's life

Hot RPG Questions

01:12

5

Q: Do you need a free hand to Shove?

I don't know if I'm crazy or what, but if you had asked me "Do you need a free hand to Shove?" I would answered with a resounding of course before I reread the PHB and noticed it said nothing of the sort. It specifically mentions you need a free hand for grappling, you need a free hand for somati...

dnd-5e grapple

Adeptus

Wow, I think this is the first time I've repcapped... 48 up, 1 down on an answer I made yesterday.

Ben

01:38

Very nice :D

Thomas Markov

02:21

@Adeptus you’ve hit cap lots of times.

14-15 times or so.

Adeptus

03:21

@ThomasMarkov I have? OK... either I didn't notice at the time, or I've forgotten since...

BESW

03:53

House of Nuts by JackyLeung. A multi-generational story about squirrels surviving in suburbia

Kickstarter: Just a Little Lovin' - Larp Script Book by Tor Kjetil Edland. A book with everything needed to run the groundbreaking larp about the queer community living through the AIDS crisis in the 1980s.

Pandatheist wrote a twitter thread about how ttrpg discourse would change if we had better language for discussion.

Kickstarter: A Mending by Shing Yin Khor. A solo keepsake game about a journey to visit a dear and distant friend, using sewing, map-annotating, and story-building mechanics.

The Oracle

04:52

0

Q: How to use the [lore] tag correctly?

In this question I attempted to ask about in-universe phenomena that affect spellcasting in a particular D&D setting. Admittedly, the question is complicated and was difficult to write with precision. Some of those in-universe phenomena might be magic items, which tend to be generic in D&D: they ...

discussion

AncientSwordRage

10:55

@BESW Dang I was hoping for squirrels and it delivers

> brings out your inner Game of Thrones meets Attack on Titan fandom, all from the perspective of squirrels living in a suburban neighborhood

yesterday, by AncientSwordRage

A Mending: A solo keepsake game about a journey to visit a dear and distant friend, using sewing, map-annotating, and story-building mechanics by Shing Yin Khor

(I prefer yours)

doppelgreener

11:16

0

A: How to use the [lore] tag correctly?

You were right to tag your question about lore, specifically on account of how it's a question about lore, but it was incorrect to expect it to signal new information to readers, or to use it to tell people what to focus on. Tags are a categorisation mechanism to help people find your question an...

RevenantBacon

14:31

For those interested, the Pixel Dice Kickstarter goes live Tuesday 12PM US Eastern

Ayden s

i have a question about the grim hollow campaign guide content, is that allowed here?

Thomas Markov

is it a table top rpg?

its a 3rd party supplement for D&D 5e?

Ayden s

yes

Thomas Markov

Sure, no problem there. Though with paid thrid party content, you have to find a balance between giving enough information so that others might be able to answer your question without purchasing the content, and not over sharing paid content.

Ayden s

ok! i just googled them, i think they have details on like the 2nd or third result

Thomas Markov

14:37

Ask yourself, "what is the minimum amount of information I need to share so that an expert in the system could still answer my question without needing to buy the book?"

Ayden s

ok!

NautArch

@RevenantBacon i'm still waffling about one

Thomas Markov

@NautArch same.

doppelgreener

i don't like to make anything battery-operated that doesn't need to be

my regular dice work just fine and don't run out of batteries or experience component failure (short of breaking them in half)

Thomas Markov

14:52

@doppelgreener What about cars :P

doppelgreener

let's approximate a fuel engine as also a sort of battery

point is, regular dice don't "run out", have software or hardware component issues, or ask me to buy new batteries

Thomas Markov

I think those are rechargeable

doppelgreener

they also don't add to my power bill

Thomas Markov

I imagine charging these dice every so often would be a negligible addition to your power bill. Though, I suppose enough negligible additions sums to a gligible addition.

NautArch

Your regular dice don't light up!

doppelgreener

14:58

false: i have glow in the dark dice

NautArch

I typically don't play in the dark, do you?

doppelgreener

but generally, i don't need them to. any environment i'm playing a game in is well lit already.

NautArch

But I'm just joshing with you. I hear what you're saying.

doppelgreener

anyway basically i'm not going to pay extra money for a less reliable variety of dice that has extra ways to break in order to accommodate something i don't need at all

NautArch

Function over form, eh?

doppelgreener

15:00

@NautArch if i were to sell you a metal bicycle, or another one made of paper mache but it has a flame decal, would that be a matter of "function over form" or would it be a matter of "one of these is a viable product"?

i work with electronics and software for a profession. i have a keyboard i can't update the firmware on because of some inane error that occurs during the update process. i know enough about this stuff to know i have tons of reasons not to trust this.

NautArch

15:12

@doppelgreener you think that's a reasonable analogy?

Either way, the dice are a gimmick. They are a fun gimmick. Don't be a thief of joy.

doppelgreener

why is this being a thief of joy

a couple of you said you were waffling

i said why i wasn't going to get a set of light-up dice

folks responded to me and i responded to them

RevenantBacon

At some point, you have to determine what a reasonable breakpoint is between "likelyhood to break" and "coolness of added function". As a side note: if the power source for my fancy light up dice dies, I can still use them as regular dice. If the power source for my paper mache bicycle with a flame decal dies, then it's no longer a problem I ever have to deal with

@doppelgreener (hint: it's because of how you responded)

doppelgreener

as if

i would have been content leaving this at my first two messages, i got nitpicked, i clarified, i got nitpicked further

Thomas Markov

I once made a paddle boat out of a bicycle and $20 worth of pool noodles.

doppelgreener

i'm genuinely impressed, that's cool as hell

RevenantBacon

15:21

well... I don't exactly see the conversation that way

doppelgreener

the way i see this conversation is i am literally just explaining why i personally do not want the dice and other people are taking issue with me explaining my perspective on them

i am not even telling anyone not to get them. i am explaining my perspective on why i will not.

even the paper mache bike thing is me trying to express how i view these and that it's not a matter of me being "function over form" but how i evaluate what i consider to be a worthwhile thing for me to get.

Thomas Markov

The stakes of this kickstarter are really not as high as everyone seems to be making them.

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov there's more than one doing this? Tell me more!

doppelgreener

there's a kickstarter for light-up stakes?!

now those i can get behind

RevenantBacon

@doppelgreener you evaluate by making exaggerated comparisons? Because I think the exaggerated comparison was likely the point of contention. It implies that wanting the cool thing is an obviously stupid thing, like wanting a paper mache bicycle that obviously would crumble when you try to use it once. It has an air of condescension too it, like saying that obviously the item would break the very first time you use it and anyone who doesn't see that is an idiot. Which is kind of being a joy-kill

doppelgreener

15:58

i don't know what to tell you. you seem to be expecting i consider myself to be fully and solely in the wrong, while zero consideration is being given to how the conversation was for me, or what prompted me to give the responses i did. i'm not going to view it the way you're viewing it. others are trying to move on including me. let's do that.

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov But does making a hole in a net also move the net? (mostly joking here)

Ah you've said this yourself before: "I think this depends on how you understand "immovable". Penetration and destruction most certainly involves moving bits and pieces of the object."

NautArch

@Medix2 I mean, if you really want to use immovable object like that, it seems underwhelming.

Most of these questions seem to be "Can I manipulate non-combat spells for combat?"

Medix2

@NautArch I believe you mean overwhelming? Turning an umbrella into an unbreakable, immovable rod seems quite strong?

NautArch

@Medix2 overwhelming use of force, underwhelming results and cost.

Thomas Markov

@NautArch immovable object is definitely a combat spell. But the spell and the net aren’t written clearly enough to get a good interaction.

Medix2

16:04

And, surely nobody could have even possibly guessed this, it's a Wildemount spell

Thomas Markov

Yeah.

RevenantBacon

@Medix2 We knew. IT's come up more than once in the past :p

Wildemount is... very poorly written

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov I'm pretty sure it's not a combat spell tbh. I feel like they forgot a "cannot target worn or carried things" though now I am wondering if nets are worn/carried

Thomas Markov

casting it on the enemy's weapon is a pretty obvious use.

NautArch

oh, it's wildemount? Nevermind, never heard of it.

Medix2

16:07

Seems strong to me, but yeah; I've already banned the spell XD

GcL

@Medix2 I would imagine rolled and slung over one's shoulder or coiled to prevent tangling.

Ayden s

i keep seeing wildmount get called poorly written for rules stuff, when else did that happen?

obviously immovable object is weird but im curious what else there is lol

GcL

There's a crazy version of magic missile

Medix2

Isn't that from AI?

RevenantBacon

@Medix2 Just ban the whole book. It's 100% poorly written garbage

Medix2

16:09

The Echo Knight Fighter is very under-defined @Aydens

Ayden s

that's fair

Medix2

And other features don't answer some questions particularly well like immovable object

doppelgreener

I'm now picturing wrangling a tarrasque with a set of immovable gazebos.

(like umbrellas, only larger)

Medix2

But here's one search result and another one with some more examples of poorly defined things

GcL

Immovable object doesn't make the object less breakable? The object can still be damaged? Cutting a net apart, setting a wood block on fire, etc ?

Medix2

16:13

Well, it makes the object immovable, and, at least to me, if you cut my computer in half, you have moved it

GcL

I would agree for a physics engine.

NautArch

@GcL I think we have a question or answer on unmovable =/= unbreakable

KorvinStarmast

useful tool on "where alignment is mechanical" for D&D 5e here - do we have a Q&A on this? I would have sworn I saw something like that recently, but it might have been elsewhere.

NautArch

makin' me log into gitp

:D

GcL

I've entirely ditched alignment. It was great when I was a kid, but it just gets in the way for the current tables.

NautArch

16:18

@KorvinStarmast I'm not sure I'd include things that detect alignment as mechanical. I mean, yes, it's a mechanic to detect, but nothing about what to do with that info.

KorvinStarmast

Sorry, there are a few posters over there whose output I really enjoy. Naanomi is one of them, so are MaxWilson and PhoenixPhyre.

NautArch

@GcL Right. It's more about actions, not words on paper.

GcL

@NautArch And perspective. A paragon to one faction might be an pariah to another.

NautArch

I don't care what you are labelled, but the world cares about what you do and what you are seen or known for doing.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL it rarely comes up in my games so far; but if it does it's kind of how Naut describes it there ^^^^

Medix2

16:20

@GcL Doesn't alignment do that? "Lawful" just means you follow some set of laws and "Good" just means you follow some set of morals? Or perhaps I do alignemnt wrong XD

GcL

I do enjoy pitting what would be viewed as traditionally good or lawful factions against one another and having the players sort it out.

NautArch

@GcL I was working on a very short-lived homebrew campaign that was all about that.

And then forcing the players to pick a side when both are doing good and bad things.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL Law / Neutrality / Chaos was for me a superior framework, but that boat sailed a while back, unfortunately

GcL

@Medix2 That used to make perfect sense to me, and for some world views it probably still makes playing a lot easier.

@NautArch I did. Two lawful good paladins of conquest on opposite sides of a border conflict. The "evil" creatures and other native inhabitants had been just fine before the nations sent their heroes.

MikeQ

Jan 19 at 3:33, by MikeQ

If you've read through some of Gygax's forum posts about alignment and the morality of dealing with evil creatures, it mostly makes sense in a war story with clearly defined good and evil, and makes much less sense if you try to, say, expand the system into an open fantasy world with people and societies in it

GcL

16:23

Yeah. It's great for cardboard cut outs.

MikeQ

i.e., the alignment schema was not intended for lawful vs lawful conflicts

GcL

Which is one of the reasons I've ditched it.

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ yeah; the lawfuls were on the same side in Chainmail table top battles. 😁

Medix2

@KorvinStarmast I swear we had a Q&A on this too...

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ I think I have shared with you before how our adventuring group (OD&D) was going around and defeating various monsters and threats to the local town (we had a Paladin in the party) when an army led by Clerics and paladins came to town and suddenly, we were taken to task for being in the wrong.

My druid (Eldritch Wizardry version) was specifically called out as being persona non grata ... it was neat world building by the DM, I thought, but it really rubbed a few of the other players the wrong way. "Wait, we are the good guys!" DM replies: "The Patriarch has a different opinion on that ..."

GcL

16:30

No good deed goes unpunished.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL learning that from one of my favorite DMs, I've carried that with me forever. I apply a little of that "you adventurers are nothing but dangerous trouble makers!" line in both of the games I DM - that sentiment comes from some of the inhabitants in the game world.

doppelgreener

@MikeQ also the context in which alignment as a personality trait makes sense: you're supposed to be the good guys, and you're supposed to be acting like it, and you're supposed to be fighting the bad guys, and they're supposed to be unambiguously bad guys

RevenantBacon

@KorvinStarmast Being in the wrong in what way? Killing the wolf that keeps eating the shepherds flock, or stopping the bandits that have been raiding the local merchant caravans don't seem like criminal offenses.

GcL

I had a little side quest in a town where the folk hired the party to go after an npc party of adventurers

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon Wrong for not acknowledging their authority, wrong for being adventurers who reported to nobody, as a druid wrong for being a pagan/heathen, and half of our party were eitgher thieves or Thief Magic Users; and one PC was a half elf fight/thief/cleric, IIRC. Thieves? The Paladins were not tolerant of them and berated our paladin for associating with us ...

GcL

16:34

I'm entertained. Did good but not trademarked good with the official seal and everything.

KorvinStarmast

... it was, in a word, fantastic DMing. "There's a new sheriff in town, and his name is Patriarch so and so ..."

Medix2

@KorvinStarmast I misread Patriarch as "Patricia"...

KorvinStarmast

@GcL Nice summary, you nailed it.

@Medix2 The only female PC was the Princess Behta, who was the Paladin's Fiance; she was IIRC a Fighting (Wo)man.

We role played their wedding as one of the last sessions any of us did in that campaign. College Graduation was approaching, players and DM leaving, etc ... we all decided to have the wedding as our last hurrah.

doppelgreener

@KorvinStarmast am thinking back to "mechanical class is not my role in the world", so having the "thief" class doesn't correlate to anyone having reason to believe you're a thief (or even necessarily being a thief)

like kryan's answer here about how being a samurai doesn't correlate to having class levels in samurai:

35

A: How can I roleplay multiclassing to explain new class features?

You need not be your class(es) You are playing a character, who has a certain skill set. That character may self-identify as a rogue, and then may recognize a distinct switch from being a rogue to following the way of the monk. Those are options. They are not the only options. Consider Miko Miyaz...

KorvinStarmast

In that game, I went on a three person raid (exploring, trying to map out parts of the local cave complex before a larger raid) and our party illusionist pranked my druid by summoning the illusion of a white dragon. I fell for it, naturally.

@doppelgreener In OD&D Greyhawk, yes it did. But over the years that has changed. I mean, original D&D thieves can't have a lawful alignment. That's a rule. Same in AD&D 1e.

doppelgreener

16:40

oh! for real?

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener Yes, for real. AD&D 2e did a nice job in changing that for rogues.

GcL

Heck, pre AD&D some of the races were classes. Level 4 halfing!

Or at least, that was my recollection.

I do recall some racial limits to leveling as well. Elves just couldn't be as high level as human.s

doppelgreener

so in OD&D Greyhawk, taking a level of Thief would mean that in-world you are actually a thief, not just that you've picked up some skills that may apply to thievery or may not?

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener I got into an argument with my DM in AD&D 1e about that for a hobbit thief. Final answer was "chaotic good is not a valid choice, pick another one" So I chose Neutral, which he accepted. (Played him as good mostly, though ...)

NautArch

@doppelgreener we are not our jobs.

doppelgreener

16:42

@NautArch apparently in OD&D we are ;_;

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener correct, otherwise you can't learn thieves cant, right? 😉

doppelgreener

that makes sense

i remember turning up to a board game meetup a few years ago, in The Before Times, and someone dished out OD&D for us to try, and i was stunned that "elf" and "dwarf" were classes. the DM and I had a conversation about that which can be summed up as: "really?" "yes." "but, really really?" "yes, really." "surely not?" "they are."

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener yes indeed. And since it was a game, people embraced it and then sometimes varied anyway and either a DM rolled with it or advised the player that they were crossing a line somewhere. (Alignment languages were a bit of a mess)

@doppelgreener Yeah, and B/X kept that!

GcL

Most of my experience was AD&D where races were locked out of classes. Want to be a wizard? better be human or elf.

KorvinStarmast

In the original game, the only way to be a two classed Fighter/Magic User was ... to be an elf.

doppelgreener

16:45

yeah, i can embrace that since it's a game, but it's stunning given the current M.O. of the game

RevenantBacon

Alignment was (and still is somewhat) a nonsensical mess that honestly has no real place in the game.

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener For sure, it's a bit jarring for folks who have ever known AD&D 2e or WoTC to see some of the original structures.

doppelgreener

it's kinda fascinating

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon "No place in the game" is not correct, but applying it effectively is quite the challenge. (And that's why I prefer Law/Neutrality/Chaos. It's got softer edges ...

The Alexandrian has a great article on going back to play OD&D, Pre Greyhawk, and how strange it felt ... as well as how lethal it was.

doppelgreener

@RevenantBacon i can buy the original law vs chaos axis in its basis as simply being sides in a cosmic war that gives the players license to go out and slay monsters and take their stuff and consider themselves the good guys of the story

that was a sound functional purpose it filled

GcL

16:48

@KorvinStarmast Couldn't have more than 3 rangers in a party.

I remember that one when we all wanted to be rangers one year.

doppelgreener

but getting adapted into personality traits as well pretty much messed them up

RevenantBacon

Nah, I'm pretty set on this, the alignment system is pretty pointless. It tries to add morality into the mix, but it forces an objective morality that doesn't make sense, since morality is always subjective. I prefer a Loyalties system instead. Pick a handful of things that you're loyal to, like your team, your family, the king or your god or whatever. But alignments just don't make sense.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL yeah, something like that, but Ranger was so hard to qualify for that we almost never saw them at the table. Had to have high scores in four stats on a 3d6 roll up or on a 4d6drop1 roll up in AD&D.

@RevenantBacon Thanks for sharing your opinion. 😎

GcL

@KorvinStarmast They were OP pre AD&D and have been paying for it ever since.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL yep

doppelgreener

16:50

right, it's definitely designed for a framework of simplistic objective morality, but that's what the original design wanted and it fulfills that need

KorvinStarmast

@GcL The one I got to play in AD&D 1e was very enjoyable.

RevenantBacon

@KorvinStarmast Loyalties was a thing I was introduced to from Pathfinder. If you ever feel like reading into it, I believe that it's from Pathfinder Unchained.

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon The odds I get any PF book is small; I do like the four features in 5e's background that offer a little bit of texture for chargen, though. Traits, Ideals, Bonds, Flaw is a step in the right direction, I think.

GcL

@doppelgreener Yeah. It was great for the cardboard cut out monsters that were poorly illustrated mostly malevolent dungeon denizens.

doppelgreener

@GcL right!

GcL

16:52

Loved that stuff as a kid.

doppelgreener

all the original game needed for its goals was to say "you're the good guys, that necromancer out there is the bad guy, this is black and white, go take him down and maybe take his stuff"; law vs chaos was a simplistic framework in which it said that.

KorvinStarmast

@GcL A good DM gave them texture, but a lesser DM didn't necessarily suffer, with that level of simplicity.

@doppelgreener EGG's two axis introduction was as bad of an idea as hobbits as PCs and psionic powers. (And I played a lot of hobbits and halflings ....) - but as a wargamer at heart, he wanted mechanical things to poke and push in the game.

And it appears that a lot of his players in his campaigns liked it.

doppelgreener

@KorvinStarmast when as a relatively new player i saw that D&D 4e dropped the nine alignments for five (lawful good, good, neutral, evil, chaotic evil) i was flummoxed, but in hindsight i've come to very much appreciate that change

KorvinStarmast

@doppelgreener Yeah, that was a great idea, IMO, and one of 4e's contributions to the game that I wish had carried over into 5e

(Didn't that originally come up in BECMI, or am I remembering wrongly? Maybe in Mentzer's optional rules in the back of the Compendium ...)

GcL

I think the best the 5e did was un-F the paladin class. That was source of the issue with alignment for a lot of tables. The way they were originally written got a lot of my guy syndrome started.

KorvinStarmast

16:56

@GcL 5e Paladin is a very well put together class. Yeah, that got that one right.

GcL

When I read Oath of Vengeance paladin my first impression was The Punisher?

KorvinStarmast

@GcL I read "Clint Eastwood" 😂

GcL

That's good.

I was just happy a paladin, a rogue, and bard could pal around together easily.

KorvinStarmast

On a totally unrelated note, I have fallen in love with Oni as NPCs; their change shape abilty to turn into a humanoid and meet the party in that guise has so far made for great encounters in my brother's campaign.

GcL

Ogre Mages?

KorvinStarmast

16:59

Yes.

RevenantBacon

@KorvinStarmast It's sort of like that, but less background-y

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon That's probably a bit harsh. The magic items and class features are mostly a bit unpolished, but the worldbuilding is great.

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon My nephew may have some Pathfinder stuff, I'll ask him if he has that one.

@ThomasMarkov I banned it; only thing I use from it is NPC blood hunter. I have Eberron but only as a resource for me as a player if I ever get into an Eberron campaign. We use the artificer in our Salt Marsh campaign, but I only approved that because I like the player and we were trying the UA artificer out (He's a fire Genasi, artificer, artillerist).

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast white plume?

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov hmm, wait, I think I awarded our artificer with a ring of fog cloud.

@NautArch No. The first one was over a year ago, as they marauded through the mountains. They met him later at a river crossing. The current one is the Oni in the Tamoachan module; since the party is looking for the nephew of a djinn (air genasi) I have decided that the Oni is keeping him prisoner; the party are about to meet him ... looking forward to it.

@NautArch the Oni has in his lair a pool of golden water, but an air genasi can hold their breath indefinitely. So, the Oni has him tied up, weighted down (metal balls strapped to his feet, chains) underwater for most of the time ... and the NPC is down there holding his breath until the Oni pulls him up to torture him or toy with him.

Then he gets put back into the pool ...

@NautArch Tamoachan leave open a bunch of stuff that might happen to the PCs if they fail that save (DC 17) early in the module against a curse. Well, they are finally out, at the top, haven't found the nephew, and are examining the Giant Bat altar/statue ... which is where the Vampire Spawn emerged from (that's what I decided on for the curse; visits from vampire spawn. Five players failed that save, and each gets pursued by a vampire spawn ... fun times).

NautArch

17:18

Hehehe

Onis are a lot of fun.

I definitely messed with the players for a bit with the one in white plume.

@RevenantBacon Not sure if it matters to you, but it looks like the pixel dice have opensource firmware

KorvinStarmast

17:56

@NautArch Oh, man, if I do that again I might just get eye rolls. But my brother is not keen on the white plume items in his world, so we'll have to figure out what I will sub in that he finds acceptable.

NautArch

18:13

@KorvinStarmast totally reasonable. The adventure is...odd.

it's best as a one-off.

KorvinStarmast

18:50

@NautArch I am trying to decide of this party, when they get to level 6, will be able to take on an Adult Green Dragon. When they are able to "focus fire" they do a pretty good job of pouring on the damage, but adult dragons have things like legendary saves that may swing an encounter. if the dragon 'party wipes' them they do have enough HP that most of them are unlikely to get 'instant death due to massive damage' and I can have the dragon's minions capture them ... hmmmmm

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast party size?

RevenantBacon

Fun size

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov six or seven, depends on who shows up

Nobody has a con of less than 14; two people have CON of 18: barbarian and IIRC the Paladin.

Thomas Markov

If you pull punches a bit they may be able to take the dragon.

A properly optimized party could burn it down easily enough.

But under normal circumstances an adult green dragon is going to be a exceptionally difficult fight.

Probably not a wipe, but characters will die.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov ... what I might do is plan the encounter as an "intimidate the party" deal "get offa my lawn" and so introduce this dragon as a regional presence/threat/force to be reckoned with. (Has a minion who is a Bronze Dragonborn NPC built as an 8th level Warlock/Genie/Blade pact-might just have them meet him ... )

Party is not "properly optimized" but a few of the players are pretty focused on the excellence of their builds. Our Sorcerer almost never shows up (RL has been killing his game chances) and missing him might be a significant problem

Thomas Markov

19:01

Ive got a ranged swords bard build that is very good at dealing damage, it would take 5 of them an average of two rounds to kill a green dragon, assuming none of them succumbed to frightful presence or got one shotted by breath weapon.

And this build is optimized for damage.

Average of 22 damage per turn against AC 19.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov yeah, but they do have a monk. 😎 a few chances as stun lock, or forcing legendary save burns might make the difference; but fails on the breath saves are likely, and fails of Frightful presence are likely for two or three players. Dragon will be able to break up the party unless the dice hate it

Or, unless the cleric has prepared the spell that prevents fear; I don't think she's ever prepared it yet ... hmmmm

RevenantBacon

@KorvinStarmast If the players are intentionally going after this dragon, and are aware that dragons have an aura of fear, it would be reasonable to point out the existence of this spell to her. People tend to forget about spells that they don't use/prepare often. Case and point: I forgot that clerics even get an anti-fear spell

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon True, sort of a "stuff your character would think of that you wouldnt"

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon I agree; since I play clerics so often I forget that a lot of people are not as familiar with the cleric list as I am

RevenantBacon

Exactly

Or for example: the only 3 warlock spells I can remember are EB, Hex, and Hunger of Hadar, because I basically don't use any others :p

Even though I play warlocks all the time

XD

NautArch

19:07

For me it's hex and shatter

Just look at all those cute spells I'll probably never use

KorvinStarmast

I picked for my Lore bard Polymorph and Freedom of Movement (she just went up to 7) and as I look at her available spells, DD is the only one that otherwise tempted me.

NautArch

DD is great

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch My celestial warlock has it - yeah, it's great, but I don't get to play her anymore since I am DMing and my brother is playing. 😪

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast greater invisibility is the other option

Thomas Markov

Greater invisibility is stupid good.

NautArch

19:15

Almost too stupid.

Like animate objects

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch One of our other characters has that, I think from an item. So I passed on it, even though I am The Support.

Thomas Markov

GI means all attacks have advantage.

and all attacks against are at disadvantage.

KorvinStarmast

We are currently in an old tomb (thousands of years old) that has what we think is a vampire. All we have encountered are undead. (Might have a greater Mummy, though) Not sure Greater Inviso will be all that needed just now, but at level 8 I will be hard pressed not to take it.

NautArch

Level 5 is when the real fun bard spells come online

Thomas Markov

What did you take with your 6th level secrets?

@NautArch slow and sending are my favorites.

KorvinStarmast

19:17

providing we survive: being a lovely bard it is quite possible that the vampire (which I think is what is lurking) might just take a shine to me ... could be trouble!

@ThomasMarkov I took Counter Spell and Conjure Animals. (Slow was added to bard list in Tasha's and the DM approved it)

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov slow is one of my favorite spells. Bigby and Synaptic static are great.

I've kind of decided there really isn't counterspelling in my worlds

it's just too problematic

Thomas Markov

@NautArch takes counterspell

NautArch

Destructive Wave is a big winner, too. Great pair with greater invisibility.

KorvinStarmast

We get to find out if there is a vampire in there on Saturday since I successfullly weaseled out of the shopping trip to Wimberly! Yay me.

@NautArch Our Paladin has asked me to not take that when I get the chance; she's keen on reserving that for herself ... which is fine by me, I have too many to choose from when I get to 10th (if we survive)

Thomas Markov

My game with @NautArch last friday was interesting. Party got dunked on by some mind flayers.

NautArch

19:21

@KorvinStarmast more than reasonable. The fact that there are some class spells that are really 'just' for that class, but then others get them earlier always rubbed me the wrong way.

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov Did they dunk you in the coffee before they ate your brains? 😁

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov Be honest, my man. You guys started that fight. It was just a bigger fight than you thought.

Thomas Markov

No, they had a vested interest in intimidating us into helping them.

Yeah, we sort of started it.

Technically they started it though.

NautArch

Yes, they brought you there. By really messing with the barb's head.

Thomas Markov

I was trying to start it when I got mind blasted and stunned for the whole fight.

KorvinStarmast

19:23

@NautArch I am 'the support' in more ways than mechanically. We have an eclectic mix of personalities, so some of my 'support' is on the player side. Such as, I let the cleric player be our face (he's a semi belligerent war cleric) because the player likes to do that. I just back his play mostly ...

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast nicely done!

A true 'support' character is tough in5e.

KorvinStarmast

Our rogue/monk guy has been getting hosed with RL work schedule changes a lot. :( Which bums me out, since we are in the "bard and rogue" story arc (DM home world) where we are trying to rescue a princess. The DM built these adventures for him to shine and he has had to miss two of the sessions. Makes me sad).

NautArch

that is sad

we lost our necromancer last session and that was a bummer

KorvinStarmast

but we keep him up to date in discord chat and such, so he's still intouch for when he can make it ...

NautArch

but now he'll rejoin and i think they're gonna roll deep with their shield guardian and knock on the mind flayers' door

KorvinStarmast

19:26

@NautArch character dead, or player could not make it?

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast tummy turmoil player-side

Thomas Markov

@NautArch He's taking the character's illness much too seriously tbh.

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov don't knock method acting

Thomas Markov

Bernie isnt gonna roll too deep without a rest.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch It made Al Pacino a fortune, didn't it?

Thomas Markov

19:28

He's in pretty bad shape.

RevenantBacon

@NautArch I animate this handful of silver pieces and command them to attack that werewolf

NautArch

@RevenantBacon yep. I used silver hair pins.

RevenantBacon

Ooohhh, pointy

NautArch

I stopped casting it, it was way too much. Both to manage at the table and the overall effect at the table.

GcL

Scheduling probably causes more TPKs than anything.

NautArch

19:42

@GcL yeah, if the necromancer was at the game, they probably would have rolled the ceremorphs

Helwar

20:35

hey @NautArch are you there?

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon Works against a variety of fiends as well ... most devils, for example, have this in their stat block: Resistances bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks that aren’t silvered

Thomas Markov

@Helwar You've reached NautArch's answering service, would you like to leave a message?

Helwar

haha

if this was a phone I would just hang up, I hate answering machines :P

It's just that a friend of mine was in the Chatizen Tomb of Annihilation game in DND beyond (from a year ago when they expanded the slots per game), and she did the same mistake as I did before: Deleting the character to start anew, and in doing so she outed herself from the game. She has sent a message to Nautarch in dndbeyond but I don't think he has seen it

*he, she, they. Don't want to assume :)

NautArch

@Helwar howdy!

Helwar

Houdy!

here I am again, asking ^^

my apologies

NautArch

20:45

@Helwar :D

no worries, my bad.

I saw the message a few days ago and I just kinda let it sit there (mostly because I didn't recognize the name, partially because I totally forgot about it.)

Helwar

yeah, when this confinement thing started, you said here that you had more slots and I asked for my friend

she's not a usual here

NautArch

Does it matter if it's not the same campaign? It looks like the original ToA one is full.

Helwar

It wouldn't matter?

I mean, if you need to move me too, do it also

or if you need the slots and need to hit eject on my seat, do it too!

NautArch

Nah, it's just random :)

Didn't know if it mattered to have the two of you together or not.

Helwar

I don't think it would matter really? Can we interact in any way?ç

NautArch

20:49

@Helwar I don't think so. Message sent to them, by the way.

Can check their inbox.

Helwar

Ok, thank you very much

this will help me a lot, we're gonna play on Foundry and importing a character is way easier than doing it directly in foundry T_T

NautArch

@Helwar We've got a bit of a bug happening right now. I can't import monsters into foundry :(

Using the VTTAssets chrome extension

Helwar

oh

I've just started importing characters

and it gets the spells and icons and everything is pretty

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I hand jammed my bard in to foundary, since porting from DDB kept getting me red text; I just stopped updating DDB for her, too much trouble to dual feed.

Helwar

I can't do it with monsters since I'm not in the patreon of whoever did the mod

NautArch

20:58

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, we recently had some issues with the foundry character sheets, too.

All data was lost. They still have their ddb sheets, but that was a bummer.

It is much better than roll20, but still buggy.

@Helwar I decided to pay for the vtta patreon. So far, it's generally been worth it.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch a bunch of our players have DDB sheets but they can't get the rolls to cross over into Foundary... which I though we ought to be able to do, but can't. Is the VTTA patreon thing DDB or foundary based?

I still run stuff on R20, their new dynamic lighting is much easier for me to use.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Do they use the Beyond20 extension?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I do. But have only used it a few times, though. It does not seem to port into foundary, if that is what you are asking. I have great hopes for next year: Stormking's Thunder, which my son bought for me (the book) campaign might, if his job situation changes, I can run that for him and a few friends. Have my fingers crossed

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast That extension is pretty solid. You don't get the character sheets in Foundry, but you get to control everything from and track it on dndbeyond.

Helwar

I'm super poor right now... Working just a few hours a week. I'll make do with just the free thing for the moment u.u

KorvinStarmast

21:03

@NautArch OK, I'll discuss with my DM; he'll let me know.

NautArch

@Helwar Not hard to just roll a d20. Keeps the players on their toes, too. THey never see the modifiers :)

@KorvinStarmast If they want access to your character sheet, that's trickier. But they can set up a campaign on dndbeyond and have y'all put the characters in there.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch The DM has a campaign in DDB, but none of the players can roll in DDB and see it come up in foundary. Beyond20 does have that feature, and I like it.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast They may need to turn off dndbeyond dice roller.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I'll talk with him on friday and see what advice he has. If I have failed to down load an extension, he'll know. (You mean the DM needs to turn it off?)

Of course, since the wife will be out of town, I can manually update my bard in DDB ... and I think I'll have it in your Campaign since you have more of the DDB books. Hal is still sitting there, moping that he can't play ...

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast No, the individual's dndbeyond character sheet

Helwar

21:08

My friend says thank you @NautArch

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch OK, so I need the extension from Foundary, and then I need to go into the char sheet in DDB and turn off die rolling?

@NautArch I am not where I can get at my DDB, so maybe I table this question stream until I can go and fiddle with it.

Helwar

21:37

since you all seem to know a whole deal... is there a way or mod or something that let me import all the classes and spells from DND beyond?

the thing I use to import the characters adda things to the character sheet, but not to the "compendium", and only what it's in the sheet

*into Foundry, I mean

KorvinStarmast

I don't think so; what I discovered with the foundary was that spells beyond SRD I had to hand jam into the character sheet, but the SRD ones were click and drag into the sheet. Green Flam Blade is what alerted me to that.

Helwar

yeah

i've been introducing Artificer to the compendium and it's quite a chore, and I have not yet started with the spells, at all xD

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