TRPG General Chat

12:10 AM

Vampire: The Masquerade shows the right way to confront an RPG's problematic past (Dicebreaker link)

@AncientSwordRage didn't V:tR solve these issues?

12:26 AM

@AncientSwordRage I dunno about what V:tR did, but more recently the White Wolf license got subcontracted from Paradox to a different dev team that did a lot of harm.

Oct 13 '19 at 0:46, by BESW

They outsourced their Vampire RPG to a group with known and clear ties to white supremacists, which then began dog-whistling white supremacist rhetoric in their publicity material about the new version of the RPG.

Ben

[wave] @all

BESW

(On reflection, "dog whistle" is a generously soft sell for what WWP was doing with V5.)

[wave]

Ben

12:45 AM

How is that day going

Or this day. Depends on your perspective

AncientSwordRage

@BESW ooof I knew it was bad, but not THAT bad

Ben

I've been admiring some of the Diablo answers over on SFF.se by @AncientSwordRage

Amongst the chaos

BESW

@Ben Brain little worky

AncientSwordRage

@Ben good title for a book

Ben

@AncientSwordRage You know, that is a great title for a book

Maybe my book... 🤔

@BESW as a wise person once told me...

AncientSwordRage

12:55 AM

@BESW They distilled the clans to vampire tropes

BESW

@AncientSwordRage While I admire what the Dicebreaker article is going for, it seems a bit odd that they're gushing about all the advances made by V5... without a single mention that V5 is also the edition with the WWP texts equating pro-bono lawyers and neo-Nazis, and trivializing real-life human rights atrocities.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW yeah seems odd

BESW

It wouldn't even undermine the article's point, but reinforce it with an example of the publisher taking action to curb harm. (though naturally, if it DID undermine the article's point I'd find its absence even MORE suspect)

AncientSwordRage

@BESW should provide all the facts regardless

I need to go an salvage a worldbuilding question....again

Ben

All this vampire talk reminds me of a funny meme my gf sent me recently

- Dracula darling, you have something stuck in your teeth
- Vhere? Here?
- No...
- Here?
- No, just go look in-
- GO LOOK IN VHAT, SARAH?

BESW

1:08 AM

The British TV serial Ultraviolet (1998) had a vampire-hunting gun fitted with a small video camera display next to the sight, so you could check if your target was a vampire or not.

Ben

@BESW I never understood the reasoning for that - why can't vampires be seen on camera?

BESW

Because most camera lenses contain mirrors.

Ben

Ahhh yeah that's right.

BESW

And/or the interpretation of "can't be seen in a mirror" extends to other methods of "capturing" the vampire's image.

Ben

So what's you're saying is...

BESW

1:12 AM

Amusing side note: if it's strictly "can't be seen in a mirror," then many cameras could capture the vampire on film, but the vampire couldn't be seen through the viewfinder, because the light has a direct path to the film but bounces off a mirror to get to the viewfinder.

Ben

Magic...

BESW

Oh, and if it's that mirrors use silver backing and the silver is the problem for the vampire's image: there would've been a period in the 20th century when a vampire was more likely to be reflected in an aluminum-backed mirror than captured on silver-oxide film.

Ben

@BESW That one always reminds me of the gif of the person walking past the mirror in one of those "revitalise" masks and does a double take and screams at their reflection

BESW

Personally I really respected Ultraviolet's approach to explaining this stuff, which was "We've been trying to figure out how vampires work for years and we know this stuff is true but we can't figure out why and we're kinda mad about it, honestly."

Ben

Vampire seeing themselves for the first time in x-hundred years

@BESW Lolol

BESW

1:23 AM

> Michael: Where's all the crosses?
Angie: And holy water? Jury's out on that. It's a bit like homeopathy. It's a question of faith, on both sides. They can be superstitious, too. In my opinion, religion is a placebo, which isn't to say placebos can't work.

Adeptus

@BESW Which raises questions about mirrorless electronic cameras... would they be able to capture a vampire's image? Or would any silver in the electronics interfere? In which case, could you even record a vampire's voice? Can they make phone calls?

BESW

Ultraviolet vampires also can't use telephones; their voice doesn't carry on the line. When they want to make a call they either use a proxy or a text-to-voice machine.

Ben

@Adeptus If that's the case, no wonder they get so grouchy - being entirely cut off like that would make anyone feel like they got the sharp end of the stick

BESW

But since it's set in 1998, some modern digital tech applications don't get addressed.

Ben

@BESW I think I did see something about a jewish vampire once, the hunter came in with a cross, the vampire got quite upset, and they ended up having an in-depth discussion about faith and religion and such.

Then the vampire killed the hunter. Lol

Adeptus

1:27 AM

@Ben That's an interesting idea... does any religious symbol work, or only ones that the vampire recognises? Ones that they (used to) put faith in?

we have the Ultraviolet series on DVD, I should get around to watching it sometime.

Ben

Well, as @BESW has linked, it's questionable... it depends

What happens to a scientologist vampire, or a muslim vampire?

BESW

Some depictions of vampires tie their reactions to objects of faith, to their origins.

Ben

They don't have any "symbols" per se, or symbols that carry the same meaning

BESW

A popular one is that the first vampire was Judas Iscariot, hence the cross and the silver are direct references to his sin.

Ben

@BESW I haven't heard that one before... I like that

BESW

1:31 AM

The (almost hilariously pretentious) 2020 Dracula BBC miniseries suggests that Dracula is vulnerable to the faith of those whose blood he drinks... and then dismisses that and says it's all purely psychosomatic.

Shalvenay

1:46 AM

@BESW XD

@BESW ehehe. good mirrors anymore are basically polished aluminum blocks

Ben

Could probably be moved over to Dragons, actually

AncientSwordRage

@BESW I love it

@Ben happy either way

BESW

→ 8 messages moved to Here There Be Dragons

trogdor

2:08 AM

@BESW that is unfortunately very consistent with how much they ignore internal continuity in other properties XD

Ben

@trogdor post-production canon generation. :P

trogdor

lol

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