TRPG General Chat

9:00 PM

Are legal questions revolving around system creation valid on RPG.SE? Like, if you wanted to adapt the 5e system to make another system, asking questions about what is legal and what is illegal?

KorvinStarmast

@A.B. if this quest is making you angry, then I suggest that you change course. Some guy called Einstein either said, or didn't say something like "the definition of insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting a different result"

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@KorvinStarmast When we throw dice, we should expect a non-different result each time. E.g. always a 4. ^_^

KorvinStarmast

@Axoren probably, as such a question wold delve into expertise on how the OGL works.

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KorvinStarmast

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Got you twice what you expected. You are welcome. :-)

A. B.

9:03 PM

And @Himitsu_no_Yami Thank you for saying that. I get a lot of everyone focusing on how I can change my innards, rather than any interest in how I can change what's actually bothering me.

I kind of expect it now. Relieved if this was not that.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica :-D

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Someone_Evil

@Axoren See intellectual-property

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Jokes aside, it's a saying that gets all kinds of misleading at best.

KorvinStarmast

@A.B. If this is the same group you've discussed with us before, my casual observation is that they don't seem to value your participation, else they'd behave differently. What it took me some years to sort out was "in situations like this, go do something else with someone else."

Himitsu_no_Yami

@A.B. I find that it's important to let things out that are bothering you it's just a matter of how you do it. Finding good ways to let out what's bothering you can also lead to ways to resolve the problem.

KorvinStarmast

9:06 PM

Life experience shared. My work is done here. Later, folks.

A. B.

Well, that's what I said :-D

I wanna group that is not this group, but there is no group :-D

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@A.B. Is this both when you're trying to find one as a player and as a GM?

A. B.

In the course of this, there was also a complicated misunderstanding that led to the person saying, "Honestly, if you can't make yourself understood in German any more clearly than this, I don't think you'll have much luck in a German-language game anyway". Which is probably true. Hence why I'd really like a game in English that is in my time-zone.

Axoren

@KorvinStarmast @Someone_Evil Thanks

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@A.B. Ah, you're looking for a game in English. I got it backwards, misunderstanding the reference to the German Stargate game.

A. B.

9:12 PM

Yes, a game in English that is not in American evenings.

Medix2

@Axoren You'll likely find some number of these questions helpful

A. B.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica After all I've been through lately with trying to get into games, and the state my confidence is in as a result, I don't think I have the nerve right now to GM my first game ever.

(I am trying to keep up, but there's such a lot of questions from such a lot of different people to answer all at the same time. I think I'm caught up now.)

Maybe I should look for a game that's more in regular sessions, like a D&D game, like the German one, rather than the ongoing-RP-channel type, that way surely there would be something happening. That really annoys me. The ongoing-RP-channel type of thing usually leavll es you having to whip up some action all by yourself and see who salutes it.

Whereas if it was a scheduled session, surely the person who scheduled it would be expected to make something happen, without the players being depended upon to do it all.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

9:30 PM

@A.B. I'm in that weird situation where on one hand I could benefit from a player joining one of the two campaigns of mine (because it would benefit from having a bit of a safety margin for a critical mass of players), but on the other hand it hasn't picked enough momentum to be self-sustaining so I'm wary of giving invitations because I don't want to either disappoint the new joiner (in case it fails to continue as scheduled)

or to unintentionally disrupt the already somewhat fragile social environment by adding one more unknown factor (predicting who gets along and who doesn't is already very difficult; more so between strangers).

I've found that not all people get along in 'random queues teaming up with no attachment purely to generate fun together' mode.

A. B.

Oh, yes, certainly. I understand. Don't go doing anything you're not sure is wise.

GcL

England is only one time zone wide, correct?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

It's like with MOBAs - some people, when put into a team with 4 other random people, engage in teamwork despite not being friends, because they're all in this to have a good session and hold neither affections nor grudges. And others . . . don't.

And for some, various minor factors can make or break the quality of cooperation.

GcL

@A.B. DM some one shots with a couple of players. Or practice some "Yes, and... " storytelling with friends as practice.

Heck, post on the lfg forums that you're looking to gain some experience as a GM and looking for other players in the greater Britain area.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

And yeah, being in the Euro-evening timezone but seeking out mostly Anglophone demographics does seem like a slight disadvantage. Though probably staying away from the most common RPG genre (the way I do) cuts down the opportunities more significantly.

A. B.

9:38 PM

I wouldn't mind sword and sorcery.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Then your options are probably much better.

System preferences or lack thereof are probably another of the big filters.

A. B.

@GcL Think I'd get blacklisted from the sites if I kept offering to GM games and then breaking down in tears and running away?

GcL

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica There are more Ars Magica 5 players in England. Sometimes it works out the other way.

A. B.

Yeah, that's how nervous.

GcL

@A.B. Are you worried you'd get blacklisted from Reddit for being a new DM?

Heck, they won't even blacklist you here for being a bad DM. At least, they haven't black listed the denizens of this chat yet!

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

9:41 PM

@A.B. Do you think this is a permanent state of affairs, or only until after you get through some practice GMing?

GcL

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica They got rid of that spell in 5e. So no worries there.

A. B.

Hmm, maybe I should learn Ars Magica some time, then. I rather liked the look of it when I've seen it talked about.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica I rather think it'd even be only until after I get through some practice playing.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@GcL I am the author of 5e. I can tell you that it has no spells.

@A.B. Are you generally new to RPGs on both sides of the curtain?

A. B.

@GcL I'm worried that they will all pass the word round that I'm an obvious psycho and you shouldn't get involved with me.

I've played quite a few things before, but I haven't for a while.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

The world is big. It's hard to keep all the names in memory, or pass them around except for the greatest of infamies.

A. B.

9:50 PM

And then, owing to various circs, I had a bad smash in an online art RPG I was in - Vicky knows the one I mean. And since then, it's become a kind of vicious circle.

GcL

@A.B. If we're talking about "they" on Reddit... it's a big group that's less coordinated than a flock of ill tempered cats. So, you don't need to concern yourself with some cabal scratching your name off of an approved users list.

A. B.

As soon as I join a new group, I'm convinced I'm about to be thrown out, get nervous and hysterical at the least sign of having annoyed somebody or if I notice that I'm talking a lot, or, frankly, by this point, just anyway, and am thrown out as an Obviously Weird Person from whom we must Protect Our Members.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@A.B. Wait, do I know you under another name?

Axoren

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica A villain of Fifth Glyph. reddit.com/r/AVoid5

GcL

@A.B. That seems like something you've identified that you can then work on. Good first step is to identifying and describing your feelings.

A. B.

10:01 PM

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

And we're back to "go away and analyse your feelings rather than try and address the thing you're upset about".

I expect you mean well.

But anyway, how can I "work on that", without the facts having changed?

Medix2

@V2Blast Beat me to it on the bounty for that haste question

A. B.

How can I expect something different with no more reason to expect anything different than before?

Or do you mean hide it more effectively?

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Sure! I played Yufen in the Space Game. (Don't mention my Discord name on here. Fears of getting a reputation again.)

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@A.B. Oh. In that case the not-yet-stabilised-with-momentum-and-social-dynamics nature of that campaign I mentioned would probably be a bad fit anyway. And the fact that some of the mutual acquaintances are in there, which is relevant for the reputation concerns.

A. B.

@Axoren Don't know what that's a propos of, but it's nifty!

(and I did the thing! :-D)

Axoren

@A.B. >(and I did the thing! :-D)

Thou hast brought ruin upon it.

A. B.

10:13 PM

Oh, I wouldn't mind playing with them. But in my current state of tiz, they might mind playing with me. And, as you say, people coming and going and all that makes it more awkward.

@Axoren Ha, I didn't spot that, thought that part was all right too. It's hard, isn't it?

@GcL No offence intended.

GcL

@A.B. I don't know what will or won't work for you, but you've figured out how you feel and what situation prompts those feelings. That seems to me to be a step ahead where many people are. I'm a proponent of professional counseling. There's people who specialize in helping people. I highly recommend finding one that fits and works well with you.

A. B.

Believe me, been tried and didn't end well.

Assume I'm five steps ahead of you on all topics related to my endlessly varying neurological issues. Again, no offence intended, just fact.

V2Blast

@KorvinStarmast Acq Inc. never claimed to be a setting. From what I recall, Acq Inc was planning on publishing a book anyway - WotC just reached out to them (i.e. whoever was in working on the book already) and offered to help out with it. I have no idea what that last part of your statement is supposed to mean.

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A. B.

Regarding Reddit - your description seems pretty accurate, from what I've seen :-D But I did once see, for instance, somebody posting in the Alternate Reality Games page saying "I've seen some people discussing such-and-such's game - I played with him, have nothing to do with him, he's a nasty piece of work".

Himitsu_no_Yami

I just found out armor is extremely expensive...

V2Blast

@Himitsu_no_Yami what do you mean?

Someone_Evil

@Himitsu_no_Yami Real world armour?

Himitsu_no_Yami

no, armor in 5e

I was not expecting 400 gp for breastplate

Someone_Evil

10:41 PM

Well, mostly only when go beyond the bounds for character creation

A. B.

But then, "ARG" is much smaller than "lfg". And I really do honestly think that what I've done is nothing like as bad as what he'd done.

Medix2

@Himitsu_no_Yami It's really interesting how much or how little money a GM gives their party and the options for spending that money

Someone_Evil

T2 and above you get piles of money when using the hoards and there isn't always to much else to spend it on

V2Blast

@Himitsu_no_Yami to be fair, 400 gp isn't that much by tier 2, and it's the second-best medium armor in terms of AC (and the best medium armor without disadvantage on Stealth)

Himitsu_no_Yami

yeah, I'm just not used to it I guess. Most of my characters end up using light armor or no armor

V2Blast

10:46 PM

it is the third most expensive armor in general, though, behind half plate, which is the medium armor with the best AC (1 higher than breastplate), and plate mail, which is the best heavy armor

ye

plate mail is definitely the one I see considered expensive... cause it's 1,500 gp

but it also grants 18 AC

Himitsu_no_Yami

From one of my players: "Grozdan follows Urreek, looking once more in disgust at the prices of armor..."

it's funny cus he's playing barbarian and any of the armor within his price range would lower his AC

BESW

@A.B. I try to avoid gossip and backbiting, but I also think it's really important to warn people about the actually harmful people who often pop up in this hobby. Whisper networks will be necessary so long as people turn a blind eye to abuse.

I obviously don't know where on the scale your experience falls, I'd hope that it's more about missing stairs than about petty disagreements.

A. B.

I don't know what you mean by "missing stairs"?

BESW

Missing stair

Missing stair is a metaphor for a person within a social group who many people know is untrustworthy or otherwise has to be "managed", but who they work around by trying to quietly warn others rather than deal with openly. The reference is to a dangerous structural fault such as a missing stair in a home, which residents have become used to and accepting of, and which is not fixed or signposted, but which (most) newcomers are warned about. == Origins == The phrase was coined by blogger Cliff Pervocracy in a 2012 post on The Pervocracy, a blog about BDSM and kink. Describing a man in his social...

A. B.

That usually means something different in British usage.

...I see.

Himitsu_no_Yami

11:02 PM

Player decided to try and intimidate the shopkeep to lower the prices

Rolled a 5+2. Commoner shopkeep rolled to oppose and got 4. The dice gods are funny sometimes

A. B.

I plead not guilty of sexually harassing anyone, if that's what you're suggesting.

nitsua60

If that's what everyone here should be assuming, then there's no help that anyone here is going to be able to offer you. In which case I'd ask that you preface such sessions as today's by saying something like "I'm not looking for help with this, just need a friendly place to rant for a sec...."
Just please understand that this space is--by self-selection bias--overwhelmingly filled with people who have experienced much of what you have and who really enjoy helping out others. So if that's not what you want it'd be a courtesy to wave people off first.

Himitsu_no_Yami

@A.B. I don't think anyone is suggesting that?

BESW

Heh, not at all. Just that if you've seen people on Reddit warning about playing with specific people, it may not be petty or malicious and you'd have to really step out of line to receive the same treatment.

nitsua60

@Himitsu_no_Yami In fairness, that's the most common place I've seen the term used, at least in professional settings.

Himitsu_no_Yami

11:05 PM

@nitsua60 Never heard that myself, plus nothing in the preview of the Wikipedia link makes me think that. /shrug

Someone_Evil

@Himitsu_no_Yami Check the origins section.

A. B.

I couldn't work out which way round BESW's sentence was meant to be taken, that's all. It might have been "I don't know what you were in trouble for, but I'd hope there was a pretty serious reason for it".

@Himitsu_no_Yami And everything from there onwards, yes. It is quite a useful phrase, yes. Never heard it before.

BESW

Ah, no, more of "if you've seen people getting blacklisted, it might be for a very good reason and you probably won't ever get on that kind of list."

A. B.

Gotcha. :-)

Yes, that makes sense.

I mean, trying to psych out your players is often part of the game in ARGs, but if the account that ex-player gave was at all true, this guy was something else entirely.

BESW

There are, unfortunately, some real h*ckholes out there who need to be warned against.

I've got my own little list of exploitative/abusive designers and companies to avoid, and to warn against if I see people moving toward them.

A. B.

11:12 PM

@nitsua60 Can still talk about any aspect of the problem other than how my psychology should or shouldn't be tinkered with. Such as where to look for other games and which ones are more or less likely to freak out at seeing someone acting strangely.

Believe me, "if that's your attitude" has nothing to do with it. It really is a case of "if I haven't thought of it you starting from scratch definitely won't". It just makes me anxious.

BESW

My general advice about finding games is to look for social spaces where we feel comfortable and welcome, and introducing gaming to those spaces. Looking for hobby spaces and then hoping those are good social spaces also, tends to be the wrong end of the horse, in my experience. For any hobby, not just TRPGs.

Mark Wells

@BESW Huh, I didn't know Cliff coined the term.

A. B.

BESW and anyone else that's wondering - what's usually caused the bust-ups is just getting overwrought and ranting, the same as I did here today. Nothing worse than that.

BESW

Have you ever played in games which deliberately make space for talking about frustrations and desires?

A. B.

I've never had any result whatsoever from introducing gaming to groups I know in some other context.

BESW

11:19 PM

eg, in my mini-zine Toward Better Tables I recommend that every session begin with some time for the group to socialize and share anything that's bothering them, and to conclude with a discussion around these questions:

May 11 '16 at 2:30, by BESW

- What do you want to see more of?
- What don't you want to see again?
- What would you like to add?
- What would you like to change?

A. B.

Hmm, sounds interesting, what games are you talking about?

BESW

Some tools like Script Change provide structure for these conversations that can be applied as an overlay to any system.

@A.B. Not specific mechanical game systems, but campaigns you've played in: this isn't a game-mechanic thing so much as a social-group thing.

A. B.

Oh, I watched you talking about that the other day.

Oh, I thought at first you were talking about those indie games that are about that kind of thing.

BESW

Yeah, there are some game systems which fold safety tools like bleed management and expectation calibration into their rules (like my own Goblin Court) but the principles should, in my opinion, be applied to every game table in ways that suit the needs of the people at the table regardless of the game system they're using.

A. B.

No, I meant the ones that are about "frustrations and desires" as their subject matter.

* reads * Oh, that's clever.

Makes it straightforward.

BESW

11:27 PM

Jun 24 '19 at 10:14, by BESW

My references for safety tools to choose from are the Support Tools Compilation and Safety Tools Toolkit.

Mark Wells

@A.B. To some extent it can be done in any game. One of my groups does an informal version of that after each session, concluding with scheduling the next session.

BESW

I do know that there are TRPG spaces designed by and for people with neurodivergence and other contexts which mean they're more comfortable in non-normative play styles. But as an outsider to those spaces myself, I don't really have much room to recommend much less invite.

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