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12:02 AM
@Someone_Evil chuckle
@Yuuki Wait, Zathura is a Jumanji sequel? Not just a Jumanji ripoff?
@Adeptus Wait, Zathura is something other than a standalone movie?
I had no idea Zathura was even a movie until yesterday so you all are ahead of the game
Wait what is Zathura? XP
12:17 AM
Zathura was a spiritual sequel to Jumanji, by the same author.
Hey, if a bug bears attacks with a whip, range is 15ft right?
@RandomDudeWithAKnife (5e) Yup
Chris Van Allsberg was a prolific and creative author/illustrator. He also wrote The Polar Express.
Fair enough
He specialized in quirky and slightly unsettling 32-page high-concept fantastical-realism books filled with beautiful and bizarre graphite illustrations.
He's also the author of The Mysteries of Harris Burdick and Bad Day at Riverbend.
12:25 AM
picks up knife
@BESW whoa TIL
@Rubiksmoose I do recommend the original Polar Express book! And even more, Mysteries of Harris Burdick and Bad Day at Riverbend.
@BESW I'll have to add them to my list :)
If you like jumanji and zathura you should check out a book I think by william sleator called interstellar pig.
@RandomDudeWithAKnife narrows eyes slowly picks up wooden pot lid for shield
12:43 AM
So I'm about to take the Jeopardy online test lol
Fun random fact
Good thing I don't know monarchs or state capitals or presidents!
hey there @RandomDudeWithAKnife, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
1:03 AM
Q: What is considered "running water" for the vampire's weakness?

RorpI like a lot D&D vampires. I even bought Curse of Strahd. But something I always wandered is "What is running water?" Rivers are running waters, since it is used as an example in others editions. But how about rain (no answers are accepted on the related question)? How about a bottle? How about...

Q: Does Counterspell stop the Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature?

Eternallord66War Magic PHB pg. 75 states: When you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action. Counterspell states: You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell. If the creature is casting a spell of 3rd level or lower, its spell fail...

Q: What's my most efficient use of spell slots to help my AC?

NautArchI've got a wizard with 11 Dex and I'm trying to figure out what my most efficient use of spell slots is to help me from getting hit. We typically have 2-4 very difficult encounters per day and I want to balance my spell slot uses where I can provide as much firepower as needed. The monsters are...

Q: Does Improved Pact Weapon include ammo?

PugmonkeyThe Warlock Invocation "Improved Pact Weapon" from Xanathar's Guide allows the warlock to summon a ranged weapon: Finally, the weapon you conjure can be a shortbow, longbow, light crossbow, or heavy crossbow. Does this include the associated ammunition (arrows or bolts)? Or will the warloc...

@Rubiksmoose They are singular bowed structures, liquid, gas or solid letters, or treefolk which existed before to the Civilisation games, respectively
And I guess it was time to refresh our HNQ list
1:15 AM
@Someone_Evil Good thing you told me that it helped a lot ;)
Bus update: Well, the union and the region reached a tentative bus deal. So now they vote to ratify in 2 days, and then the regional council meets to consider it if the vote passes, then if all that works, we get a date of when buses will be back.
Still too many points of failure for my liking but...progress
1:37 AM
Also a distressing amount of time for any side involved to change their minds
3 hours later…
4:08 AM
Q: How to deal with different levels of initiative and propensity to overtalk in a large group?

interfectI recently started playing with a large group of about 7-8 people. I noticed that, in our group, a couple of the people are very active: whenever there is a chance for the group to do things, it only takes them a second or two to come up with an action for their character and narrate it. On top o...

4:18 AM
@nitsua60 hi pal :-)
5:13 AM
hmm. Isn't twitter supposed to onebox?
(never mind... it was here that I saw it first anyway...)
@Adeptus it's supposed to but it stopped about a year or two ago
6:00 AM
If a question /should/ be a duplicate of another, but the later's answer doesn't actually cover the situation in the first, should votes to close still be cast?

This question about Arcane Trickster spell slots: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/163807/how-do-spells-known-work-in-multiclassing-in-5e

was marked as a duplicate of this one about multiclassing spell slots: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/151000/if-i-multiclass-into-2-or-more-spellcasting-classes-how-do-i-determine-my-known
6:49 AM
Is this pinned anywhere? It's pretty useful for sketching out tables. isaurssaurav.github.io/mathjax-table-generator
It's already a meta answer somewhere though. Not here, but.
1 hour later…
7:57 AM
@Himitsu_no_Yami Are you proficient with shields? (If so, how?)
@BradleyLindsey Oh man, I read that ages ago. I recall it being very weird but good. I think I had a few dreams inspired by it.
@Ash Good luck!
@Adeptus It's been broken for ages.
@jgn ...Neither of those questions is about spell slots. (I should know, I wrote the second question and the answer on it. :P) That's also why I rolled back your edit to my answer.
The first question you linked specifically says:
> I know how spell slots work, to a degree, when multiclassing, but I'd like a better understanding of "spells known".
@Glazius Oooh. I'm sure we have a meta or two about MathJax tables... It'd be good to have that link somewhere more permanent and easily searchable than chat.
I suppose the original "MathJax is live" post isn't exactly a typical Q&A, so this might be suited to an answer on it:
Q: MathJax (\$\LaTeX\$ in posts) is live!

nitsua60We have MathJax In this meta we discussed, requested, and gathered evidence for the utility of MathJax in RPG.SE posts. Now it's time to use MathJax For those familiar with LaTeX it will likely suffice to say that \$ ... \$ are our delimiters ($$ ... $$ for equations centered on their own lin...

Alternately, it might be worth asking and self-answering a meta post specifically about how to format tables using MathJax, maybe including both an explanation of the MathJax syntax relevant to formatting such tables manually and a link to that page for auto-generating such tables.
(Alongside your description of the linked resource, it might also be worth suggesting manually cleaning up the formatting to make it more readable and easier to maintain - by which I mean things like hitting enter at the end of each row of the table to mark where each row begins.)
8:22 AM
@V2Blast I read the last part of the question as asking about spell slots "do I prepare those, and then cast from my Arcane Trickster spell lists as normal and just keep track of which is which" casting spells is about spell slots to me. Your answer is about 75% about spell slots, so it may be worth covering the remaining 2 classes, especially since the only other question about AT/EK spell slots isn't very broad in scope.
8:40 AM
Well, you've misunderstood the Arcane Trickster question, then. It's entirely about spells known. The querent's talking about whether they need to keep track of cantrips and known/prepared spells separately for each class. At no point does their question relate to spell slots aside from saying it's a thing they already understand.
And my answer to the spells known/prepared question is also entirely about spells known/prepared; the only time I mention spell slots are when I reference each class's spellcasting rules (which state that your spells known/prepared for the class must be of a level for which you have spell slots), and when I quote the Pact Magic multiclassing rule (which is silent about spells known/prepared).
There could be a separate question about determining spell slots for multiclassed casters, but that one ain't it.
(I don't think the issue of how to determine spell slots has really come up much, so there hasn't been a need for a canonical question addressing that.)
2 hours later…
10:22 AM
Would this chat be ok with dnd5e character build questions? (i.e. something like "are 3 levels of rogue worth it for an archery ranger that wants to increase their damage output?)
Aug 7 '18 at 20:02, by doppelgreener
At least for this chat, going by its history, the most off-topic thing anyone's probably asked in here was a tabletop RPG question.
:D well then, here it goes :D
We certainly can, though if well structured that should also work on main which would let you get more complete (/elaborate) answers
let's see then, I'll post it here and if it turns out to be site-worthy I'll migrate it
What are the other levels and subclasses you had in mind?
10:26 AM
I'm building a level 4 archery-based character with a spy background. I'm going for 4 levels of Ranger as a start, and will certainly take the 5th level too for the extra attack. At that point, level 6 is notoriously bad so I was thinking to take a dip into Rogue for the sneak attack and cunning action. At that point, the 3rd level would give me access to the assassin subclass and an extra sneak attack dice, so it seems worthy at a glance.
I have to pick ranger over fighter because the party is very small and having another character able to cast cure wounds is required - I'm willing to change class if I can get a semi-reliable access to cures and fighting primarily with a bow
tl;dr is a ranger 5/ Rogue 3 better than a Ranger 8 in terms of damage output?
if yes, what would be the ideal level progression?
Which Ranger archetype, if you had one in mind?
mostly because I know that we tend to face groups more often than single big baddies, and they tend to group up in front of our front-line cavalier fighter
but I'm not set in stone with that
Hmm... so which Hunter's features would you be looking at?
Horde Breaker: Once on each of your turns when you make a weapon Attack, you can make another Attack with the same weapon against a different creature that is within 5 feet of the original target and within range of your weapon.
that's accessible at third level
Horde breaker is better for hordes (I think), but Giant Killer works really well with sneak attack, but requires big enemies
7th level doesn't affect damage output so I guess it's not important for the question
10:39 AM
It's not, unless something like "Multiattack Defense: When a creature hits you with an Attack, you gain a +4 bonus to AC against all subsequent attacks made by that creature for the rest of the turn." is so major to be a dealbreaker for a character, from your perspective
I can't guarantee that we're going to face many Large enemies (some, for sure) but I aim not to be attacked in the first place, if I can avoid it, so Giant Killer might be off :)
also, as an archer I'd rather not be within 5 feet of a Large+ big bad enemy
10:51 AM
Right, archer... my bad
11:02 AM
imho assassin is not a good class
at least not for a combat focused character
the special abilities depend too heavily on you definitely being able to go first and enemies being surprised, which is difficult to engineer for most parties I have played with
for a rogue dip I'd probably suggest taking Scout as the archetype, the Skirmish ability to just nope away from any enemy that gets close to you as a reaction is very good for keeping your distance
but at that point, is it worth it to get to level 3 rather than say just level 1 for the sneak attack bonus?
well, level 3 will get you more sneak attack bonus.
11:21 AM
True. But rather than scout I'd probably go Mastermind, to help out the frontline tank, if I don't go for assassin. That would still increase damage output, even if very indirectly.
11:56 AM
Your goal is an archer with some healing in their back pocket, have you considered just picking up the healer feat?
should I change something in my campaign if a level 4 monk averages 64 damage/round
How are they doing that, and are you sure?
yes, I did the math, and, somehow got it to work
@Someone_Evil nice tip, thanks, i hadn't considered it
*They got it to work
should I ban tiefling monks, (thats thier race)
btw, its higher when they use flurry of blows
12:03 PM
Is the race that relevant for the damage? What are they using?
you're going to have to explain how you worked out that average damage because that number is excessive
quick back of the envelope, an L4 monk does 39 damage if it has a +5 ability mod and flurry of blows and crits for max damage on all its attacks
(assuming martial arts damage die, you can eke out a couple more points by making the initial attack with a better weapon)
cough cough greataxe cough cough
Monk subclass?
But I still think you should show the whole working out, because I'm still not seeing how you get to 64
12:19 PM
a greataxe is not a monk weapon
a monk who attacks with a greataxe doesn't get to do flurry of blows
nor can they do the unarmed bonus action attack from martial arts
in complete honesty it seems more likely you guys have misunderstood some rules somewhere to get those numbers because they're dramatically higher than we would expect, so if you go through your working we can see if it's right or not.
I concur that a full explanation of how they are doing this would be better
@Someone_Evil When I did this one it was fighter (for Archery and precision BM dice), rogue (for bonus-action Hide and SA dice), and Magic Initiate for healing word.
12:27 PM
64 is rather low compared to what a wizard can do a first level :(
@RandomDudeWithAKnife You're talking about D&D 5e, right? If so, this does not ring true to me. 64 is insane
a 1st-level wizard might be able to do 64 damage with one spell if they manage to drop a burning hands on a perfect cluster of enemies but they're hardly doing that as average damage
regardless there's not much point in us speculating
@nitsua60 Yeah, I thought about suggesting MI for healing word or cure wounds, the problem is you only have one per long rest, and if you need the second one, you might really need it
12:50 PM
if I shot off my bow 5 times in combat, and afterwords searched the field for ammo, and I can't half 1/2 of an arrow, how many arrows are retrieved?
@RandomDudeWithAKnife Unless otherwise stated round down so 2
Can I search for arrows I didn't fire. aka goblin shoots his be 6 times. can I search for his arrows, for a total of 5?
Up to the DM whether any equipment from monsters are usable
And arrow recovery is still 1/2, isn't it?
DM. You see a goblin dying and a spear sticking out of his chest. Rouge. I take the spear out of him and pocket it.
12:57 PM
@Someone_Evil my dead wizard grabbed MI for healing word .
@RandomDudeWithAKnife Does "it" refer to the spear, or the goblin? :p
@Someone_Evil rogues aren't allowed to keep pets lol
thats rangers
@NautArch I'm by no means saying MI for a healing spell isn't good (and having it as a BA is really good), I'm saying there's an argument for taking healer instead. Comes a bit down to threat modelling, I suppose
@RandomDudeWithAKnife I'm not sure a dead goblin qualifies as a pet. I think a rock is better for that end
@Someone_Evil yeah, for me it was wanting to bring an ally back into the fight from distance.
2:01 PM
@STTLCU are you looking by for a high damage Archer build?
@NautArch yes, with some restriction such as being able to heal, and tailored for levels 5-10 as I doubt we'll ever get past that
@STTLCU Being able to heal yourself, or others? Is that a hard requirement?
(hard as in strict, not as in "difficult to achieve". I mean if you play with feats you could always take the Healer feat...)
Others primarily, and yes. The other party members are a Cavalier Fighter and a Lore bard, so having another source of magical/special healing is required. Potions aren't extremely common for us (as of yet)
Morning everyone
Hm, I don't know what kind of a campaign you're planning for, but the Lore Bard could have Healing Word and that'd be already quite good
2:08 PM
yes, but their slots are limited and with a reduced party size we tend to be in need of many heals between long rests
Healers are generally not very important in the normal course of action in DnD 5e except as exception-handlers (reviving KO'd characters)
Of course your mileage may vary, esp. if the campaign has a somewhat less common threat profile. If the bulk of the damage comes from environmental hazards you can't fireball your way through, healing certainly beats offensive magic and bashing :)
It's mostly a matter of basic redundancy. With a half-healer only in the party, we'd need someone to be able to revive them if they go down for any reason
I can get the redundancy part, but I wouldn't consider a bard a half-healer
they would rather cast their spells for something else rather than healing, though
if you bring a bard for healing you'd be better of with a cleric, no?
Not that much?
2:13 PM
wouldn't you be losing out on all the other interesting spells that a bard has?
I am no expert of 5th ed, by any means, but that sounds odd at a first glance
@kviiri Neither would I really (jumping in with little context though)
@STTLCU 5e doesn't really support the "designated healer" trope where a character spends a lot of their daily resources doing healing. (Of course you can do it, but that's seldom even close to optimal)
@STTLCU hmm, you're going to have to make some compromises, because high ranged weapon damage and good healing may not be something you can totally realize together.
And bards are definitely capable of being full healers. WIth the spell slots, healing word, and cure wounds, they're good at battlefield healing to keep allies up and fighting.
@NautArch I'm aware of that, I'm looking for the best I can do with the hand I'm dealt :)
And the short rest song of rest extra hit die is also no joke. Combine with Inspiring Leader feat, and they're a great healer.
2:17 PM
But anyway, I actually have a suggestion! Check out the Healer feat. It saved the butts of our entire party in a particularly nasty session.
yes, I got that suggestion and it seems quite great, in fact
@STTLCU well...it's not hte hand you're dealt. It's what you want :) WHat are your stats?
In particular, it allows a no-roll heal to 1 hp, at the cost of an action but that's already enough to get your main healer back online if needed.
@kviiri i'm actually considering that feat for my wizard at my next ASI
str 12, dex 18, con 14, int 12, wis 16, cha 13 with a wood elf
I was planning for an ASI to 20 dex
because it's just too good for the bonuses it gives
2:20 PM
Or just have everyone be able to off heal.

The game I'm currently running has a celestial warlock, a ranger, (battle) cleric, paladin, and druid.
@STTLCU check out this build. It's more about ranged damage, but the cleric dip gives you some healing. But the spell slots are really more about bless for yourself to increase your damage chances.
But yeah, to rephrase what I tried to say earlier: there is really no way for healing magic to keep up with the expected damage outputs of various mobs (even before accounting for the fact that healing consumes daily resources in almost all cases, while competing attacks are often free). Therefore the best places to concentrate healing on are reversing KO's (or preventing imminent ones), although the option to convert slots to HP over a non-combat stretch can be handy at times.
I agree with @kviiri, @STTLCU. Healing in-combat is really a last resort thing to bring people back into the fight to kill the enemy. It's a short-term solution. Almost always, the better choice is offense over healing. Kill the thing that's damaging you and you won't be damaged anymore.
yes that's a valid point
So you're all saying I should make a Fighter Archer (I'd assume BattleMaster) with maybe or maybe not a dip into rogue, and maybe keep a potion or two for emergency revives?
@STTLCU for pure archery options, fighter is generally the best. But hunter rangers deal some good consistent damage with some other spell control options, too.
I personally don't love the rogue dip, i'm not sure it's worth it.
But going sharpshooter for the -5/+10 and having way like bless to mitigate the -5 is the path to high damage.
2:36 PM
cunning action and an extra damage die per turn seems juicy though
> i'm not sure it's worth it.
Also I'm open to change my mind :D
@STTLCU would you rather have an extra d6, or a +10?
the d6 would apply when I hit but the +10 might end up missing
not going to deny cunning action is good, but you also need to dip two levels into rogue for that. delaying your extra attack
delaying action surge
@NautArch we all know what the +10 is, but the d6 could be anything! it could be +6!
2:39 PM
@goodguy5 i'll take that door!
I would miss out on horde breaker though. That seems quite strong in our current setting
I think I'm referencing Family guy, or maybe the Simpsons.
Somehow gives me The Simpsons vibes
@goodguy5 i think it's family guy. it's the boat?
@kviiri There's a lot of thematic overlap
I think Homer loves his kids more, and I THINK Peter is a little smarter?
2:42 PM
@STTLCU well, wanting area effect stuff is another lever you don't currently have. Most martials don't get that.
Oh right now I remember. In that one episode Mr. Burns' power plant was under threat of closure because of a safety inspection and Burns offered to settle for a washer-dryer or something like that, "or you could trade it for this mystery box!"
To think i have neurons dedicated to this
@STTLCU And horde breaker works when you fight mobs, but colossus slayer works on every damaged creature.
@goodguy5 That'd probably depend on the rough time frame we're talking about. Homer changed a lot over the years
Although Homer's flanderization hasn't been the fastest or most obvious in the franchise
that's true
brb gotta catch a bus
2:51 PM
How big is their mitt?
@goodguy5 their mitt is about the size of an ant
Makes catching the bus seem unlikely
Taking the missus out for some delicious Ethiopian food today
oooh. hands on!
(As in, a date. Not a trade. Not a trade in the other sense either. And I think that covers all the obvious misinterpretations of that sentence)
3:00 PM
@goodguy5 good call on offering the group rolling option. I think you should either submit it as an answer or do a related link.
(I guess a purposefully obtuse person could ask if you intended to kill your wife in exchange for ethiopian food)
@goodguy5 I sure hope so, an Ethiopian coworker from a few years back used to complain some Ethiopian restaurant in Helsinki charges extra for the bread so most people ate with a fork and a knife!
@NautArch I asked a comment first, confirming that's acceptable
@goodguy5 I personally think it is, but it's not my question :)
Though, I'm not sure I said that anywhere, I was just thinking it....
3:01 PM
i'm in your head
Ethiopian cuisine has this delicious bread called injera, a bit like our sour breads up here but a tad more fruity in aroma and softer in consistency. Very nice stuff
like a soughdough pita or some such?
regardless, sounds great
anyway, either prerecord a bunch of rolls and then just go down the line
@goodguy5 oh, i thought you were referecing something around Nits' group save stuff.
oh no
Though the DMG also offers this:
d20 Roll Needed Attackers Needed for One to Hit
1-5 1
6-12 2
13-14 3
15-16 4
17-18 5
19-19 10
20-20 20
@goodguy5 Hm, I guess it does resemble pita a bit yes
3:06 PM
@goodguy5 where is that?
DMG p.250
oh, and there's a calculator on slyflourish
@goodguy5 doy ou want to put up an answer with this or can i include it in mine?
I'll put one up in a bit. I've got to have this meeting
are you doing things outside of that bit, or is the whole answer it? Was working on an update to mine.
But also realizing detailing the whole system may not be appropriate?
@NautArch Hmm... I'm tempted to give my ol' "figure the expected number of hits +d6 - d6" answer. But that's a bunch of time I don't really have today =\
3:18 PM
@nitsua60 welcome back! Hope your day of rest was helpful :)
but yeah, that's what I was thinking of.
don't hate me @goodguy5...adding it to my answer.
Oh, yes--I see that you-all mention it later on.
Feel free to cannibalize that if it fits in somewhere--I'd be glad to see it recommended to that GM, and don't feel like doing it myself =)
i think the related link works
@NautArch It was good, thanks. Squeezed in a run, had a double-length department meeting, memorial service, rehearsal, and watched a show with my wife. Solid.
@NautArch It feels a little like an answer-in-comment, but if you say it's good, I'll leave it.
yeah, i'm not sure, either. I mean, it is related, tho :)
but it's borderline, too as it can 100% be an answer.
interestingly, @goodguy5, it looks like RyanCThompson was also thinking about handling mods. THey've got a deleted answer with that headline.
3:34 PM
@goodguy5 That was a pretty fast meeting
it was a 1:1 and it was cut short because of technical difficulties. I'm pretty sure the VPN does a DNS swap around this time of day or something
@goodguy5 aaah! acronyms!!!
@goodguy5 I'm not sure about prerolling my own character's (or summons) rolls. Don't love that suggestion.
and how do you handle multiple creatures against multiple enemies? How do you pick which ones hit?
Or is it that you just say 4 enemies against creature X, and then say 2 hit?
@NautArch DM prerolls
yes, group them by attackee
3:44 PM
@goodguy5 so you've taken agency of the summons away from the players?
I mean.... they still have the agency, you've just taken rolling away from them
I clarified in post
but, if it's detracting from the game for a player to roll 25 times, then it's completely fair, imo, to remove that aspect of the game
anyway, need to drive into work. My remote morning is at an end.
3:56 PM
Q: How do role-playing games avoid lame duck scenarios?

AllureThis is effectively the reverse of How can I end combat quickly when the outcome is inevitable? Lame duck scenarios in game design occur when a player cannot win, but the game isn't over yet. They're obviously undesirable, and good game design would seek to minimize it. I'm interested to see ho...

I wonder if D&D villains would be scarier as acronyms:

- TtDQ
- DPoD
- AtLotN
- JtFL
- XtE
- KtWtW
10 points to whoever guesses what these are xD
1- Tiamat the Dragon Queen 3- Strahd Von Zarovich. All I got

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