TRPG General Chat - 2020-01-21 (page 1 of 2)

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1:39 AM

@BESW have been skirmishing with various rodents in our house of late. Had not thought to wield a dining room chair ... it's a option. Thanks for the inspiration.

Granted, conventional mouse traps have mostly worked, and one of my dogs went and tried to eat one ... no, not a pretty sight

I think a chair is definitely a mediocre weapon against something that small

Mostly because of it's shape

Hot RPG Questions

5

Q: Are lances in 5e a one-use item?

I cannot find a single bit of info on this subject. My group shares around the DMing between our three different on-going and concurrent campaigns, and twice now this issue has come up. Granted there is the DM fiat which I always abide by, even though if grudgingly. So without any RAW or RAI tha...

@trogdor Yes, not to mention my wife getting all in my grill for swinging a chair around. XD

broom handles are a bit better, but not optimal

2:00 AM

In my one interaction with a small rodent, opening the door and herding it out worked well

It was in my office though

Not my house, where it probably would have been killed by even my old, fat, lazy cats

They do still like murdering small creatures

4 hours later…

5:38 AM

@BESW You seem to have great taste in picture books, because you keep posting things from my favorites. :P

When that book was presented to me as a child, I didn't actually realize the framing device was not the truth, making it very mysterious and difficult to find as an adult (but not as hard as other books, like the mermaid one this chat helped me find).

Oh that's from a book?

Yep. The Mysteries of Harris Burdick by Chris Van Allsburg.

It's definitely a good illustration

It's presented as a collection of unwritten stories, only a picture and a caption for each, by an author and illustrator named Harris Burdick who disappeared.

Oh wow ok

Hot RPG Questions

5:51 AM

8

Q: Does a monk decide to use slow fall after damage is rolled?

At fourth level, monks get the class feature Slow Fall: Slow Fall Beginning at 4th level, you can use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level. My question is, does a monk decide to use their reaction for slow fa...

dnd-5e monk falling

Thant sounds pretty cool

It was read to us in a gifted reading class to the end of having us each select an illustration and write an accompanying story. It mystified me. I might have chosen the one with the chairs..? I have it somewhere or other.

Except for the disappearance thing but even that adds an air of mystery

Also nice

user image

If you ever spot it in a bookstore or something, I highly suggest leafing through it.

I will do that given the opportunity

It looks worth a look

5:55 AM

@Pixie What a strange concept, sounds interesting.

The pictures remind me a bit of Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children

That's one I haven't read, but I see it all the time (I work in a library).

I haven't read it yet. Movie was good.

The books do include rather mysterious-looking photos/illustrations.

Yes. We have the book & I've flipped through the photos. The DVD has a behind-the-scenes talk to the author - these are real (trick) photos that he has found in second-hand stores/garage sales/etc, that inspired the story in the first place.

6:06 AM

Ooh, interesting. Yeah, I see the similarity then.

1 hour later…

7:19 AM

@Pixie There's a version of it that's a loose-leaf binder with each illustration as a poster-size page. I had each one laminated and had them ringing the walls in my college dorms.

XD

2 hours later…

9:38 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer, potentially bad ns for domain in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (82): Does a monk decide to use their reaction on the Slow Fall feature after falling damage is rolled? by Hardware Review on rpg.SE

3 hours later…

12:29 PM

@nitsua60 Out of curiosity, do you do this yourself to set the example?

12:57 PM

@Someone_Evil What a nice Q&A on how it got to be what it is. (Artificer) Our Salt Marsh artificer just had to lose an infused cloak of the manta ray as we transitioned from UA (last one) to E:RftLW. Your Answer is very helpful is seeing how things changed. Thanks for doing that.

@trogdor Yes, I give cats credit for that; mostly a terror in re small rodents.

@Pixie Not so much "the flying nun" as the "levitating nun" (making a ref to an old 60's TV show)

1:51 PM

I was in the middle of a frame challenge on this question when it was closed. (My idea was "is playing with your brother / sister more important, or is this char concept") but given how disorganized the question is, the closure is probably for the best.

@NautArch A little of both. I take a look at the tables and sometimes modify one if I wan't a little bit better of a fit.

2:11 PM

@KorvinStarmast yeah, that question is all over the place

@NautArch My answer, now stillborn, is the old XY problem thing: "What's more important to you, playing with your brother and sister or this character concept?"

Also, why can't they do both? (ie, if enough free time is available, play that build in 3.5 and play 5e with their bro and sis ....)

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, I think there's some X-Y there.

I've also seen us talk about accepting a plurality of playstyles, but I'm not sure that I'd ever read pre-mod SSD's meta question on it. Really liked it and did take some enjoyment from the comments where thedarkwandere asks SSD to be a mod :)

@NautArch That was one of the first metas I read, thanks to me taking the piss out of someone's overly "the DM isnt' right" attitude ... and I think either Neil Slater or SSD pointed me to that meta in a comment. (Neil was so very helpful to me when I first showed up... unlike some others)

Neil was definitely before my time

I think it was LegendaryDude that really drew me in.

@NautArch Neil still drops by now and again, but not very often; oh, yeah, Legendary has always been a fave for me.

2:54 PM

@NautArch You are too kind. Coming from you, given your high standards, that comment under the ansewr gave me a nice warm feeling.

@KorvinStarmast Hehe, we don't always agree, but when we do, I updoot.

@NautArch My main interactions initially were BESW and BBS (Brian).

I'm also continuing my mental-health positive changes. Trying to not downvote and just place constructive comments and upvotes. And also trying to change how I view differing opinions that are still well supported.

And that SSD plurality question really did open my eyes further.

@KorvinStarmast I also like that both of our answers don't even get anywhere near the opinion-based answer that it could have drawn.

@NautArch yeah; NathanS makes a good point about how any of us would have viewed/taken the reported DM comment, but I think that focusing on what to do going forward (as that game isn't still in play for Jordi) seemed the better idea ... as did you.

3:11 PM

@NautArch :)

Woot, that new feed item from Alexandrian on GM screen hacks looks l ike something I'll use. Glue Sticks for the win!

3:24 PM

@KorvinStarmast KRyan brings up an interesting point about that Artificer question. I'm not quite sure how to deal with it.

@Rubiksmoose You mean alchemist dandwiki?

@KorvinStarmast Err yup! That's the one.

@Rubiksmoose which point

Yeah, I think that the querent should not cut and paste the thing, but that they need to lay it out like a standard 5e format. A lot of our homebrew questions take the trouble to do that. See my Druid Circle of the flame as an example, or the recent Jedi way of the force monk homebrew.

@KorvinStarmast ^ Agreed. I kinda agree with Kryan about linking to a static version (if that's actually true), but I don't know if it is or isn't. But we do have a general standard here about having all content for review in a question. Not sure why we don't want to do that just so that we can do a balance review on content someone didn't make that lives in a site we have issues with.

3:27 PM

@KorvinStarmast Link rot’s a concern, but not a huge one, in my opinion—we deal with discussing content outside the site all the time (most of our work). Would I prefer it here? Yes. But should a technical limitation prevent asking the question? No. And while dandwiki has many issues, stability has not historically been one of them—they’ve been around for ages. And I really don’t think “will it break my game?” is nebulous at all—after all, a good answer isn’t going to just say “yes” or “no,” it’s going to explain how. Voters can then decide if they’ve backed up the claim. — KRyan 1 hour ago

@NautArch Not only that but a huge homebrew review. It's a hefty question.

But they also haven't defined how they want it checked for balance. Is it against the WIzard? Is it against all classes? is it against other possible homebrew builds their table uses? We also ask for that qualifier as part of our "balance check" guidelines.

@Rubiksmoose each subclass probably needs it's own question.

@NautArch That's what I suggested to them.

There's a lot in there and trying to do everything asked all at once isn't going to be helpful.

And Someone_Evil as well

@Rubiksmoose I don't know if you or Kryan removed the personal attack against me, but very much appreciated.

but i'm bowing out of the conversation. Debating with Kryan is no longer fruitful for me.

3:32 PM

Specifically, I suggested choosing one of them (which might quickly turn into asking seperate ones) as a means to help bring the character count from 50 000 to 30 000

@Someone_Evil Same. And also, really the only one that matters balance-wise is the one the player chooses to play.

@NautArch continuing my mental-health positive changes - I love seeing a plan in action. Well played.

@KorvinStarmast yup. Just disengaging from things that aren't positive.

it's not worth it

3:54 PM

@NautArch This is why I roll Rogues.

@Yuuki disengaging is a bonus action, eh? ;-)

Pictured here: a DM that complains about none of the players having any significant backstory.

@JoelHarmon I do (try).

Well, that dandwiki alchemist question is about to be reopened. /shrug

Would tricky wording be considered consent (with regards to a Will save) for polymorph?

4:03 PM

@Yuuki that's funny, in a sick sort of way

e.g. "Would you like me to make you a magical sword?"

@nitsua60 I need to collect the whole of the back story suggestion threads from GiTP; there are some super ideas there from some of the contributors. Next time my mother in law is over, I'll go upstairs and just do some searching.

@Yuuki Now I'm imagining her as some sort of Abyssal Exalt (or Doomed Space Marine) who decided to build her own little empire in Hell and chill there.

@vicky_molokh love the doomed space marine angle ...

@vicky_molokh your wife is the doom slayer

4:09 PM

@Yuuki but the doom slayer is alive

@Carcer why are you referring to yourself in the third person?

@Yuuki the doom slayer finds it makes him seem more dramatic

(now I can't stop going "THE BOULDERRRR" in my head)

I'm more of a Doom player than Doom slayer

But watch out for my awesome circlestrafing skills

I admit I am hype for Doom Eternal

I haven't played any Doom game newer than Doom 2 though

4:11 PM

only moderately grumpy about daft design changes to the armour

I have played Strife though and I've been thinking of adapting its setting to a TTRPG campaign

Doom 3 is kinda garbage, DOOM (2016) is rad but honestly not actually very much like original Doom unless you were the kind of person that speedran nightmare

@Yuuki Maybe there is something sinister going on ... it puts the doom upon its skin or it gets the slay again

Strife's a really pretty game by Doom engine standards

Do we really want this question open?

4:17 PM

Strife is like Doom but it's in a Medieval world... occupied by an oppressive military cult with extremely dank cyborg and biological tech. There's also a (mostly-linear) questline centered around collecting the five pieces of the legendary weapon called The Sigil, but still more than just an excuse plot.

@kviiri So cyber-Hexen?

@vicky_molokh I only played Heretic, but yes, I assume the similarities are abundant.

@NautArch Actually, it's IMO an OK risk. KRyan made a point that it may be hard to answer (I agree, as one has to wade through dndwiki garbahj) but that it is answerable if someone wants to put in the effort. I have time tonight to maybe try, but not today, and once I digest the dandwiki stuff, I may just get nauseous. .

@KorvinStarmast Any question that's overly broad is possible to answer with more work, but that's why we have too broad. Whatever, letting it go :)

@NautArch I agree with you at least in part, and I'd like to see the sub class included. I suspect it won't get much effort, though. the "too hard" hurdle likely will deter most answer attempts.

4:21 PM

@KorvinStarmast Hopefully. I've got a bad feeling, but not my problem anymore.

@kviiri Medievalesque world, check. Oppressive cultish thing in charge of society, check. Mostly but not quite linear (implicitly with some variation in order of going to some places), check. Assemble a great weapon from multiple parts, check.

@vicky_molokh I'm a bit of a sucker for old video games, but it really works its way neatly with Doom Engine's limitations to make the world feel more natural and three-dimensional. (Of course, it by its nature tries to present a coherent setting instead of just hell-themed levels to shoot in, which makes a lot of difference)

@NautArch I'll check in on it later to see if it has attracted anything at all. My 25cents bet is that it won't get a sniff.

@vicky_molokh Hexen has something like character classes, though, which Strife doesn't have. Strife's a fairly straightforward FPS, although it very occasionally grants the player options for stealth kills.

@kviiri The second Hexen has an Assassin with a backstab bonus, but opportunities to use that are very few and far between.

4:24 PM

Strife does alternate quite heavily between the Medieval, cyberpunkish and downright alien though. The backstory is iirc that the world is Medieval in tech and everything more advanced than that is brought by the arrival of the Order, which kinda explains the mish-mash.

@KorvinStarmast Which isn't helpful to OP, either.

I am also a bit of a sucker for settings exploring technological adaptation (eg. anti-alien resistance adopting alien tech, in this case)

@kviiri Reminds me of some XCOM crossover fanfiction where other alien civilizations are completely puzzled over the fact that humanity is far beyond any other civilization in terms of weapons tech and psyonics and yet their starship drives are (literally) lightyears behind even the most rudimentary galactic civ.

Has Snuba Gang gotten any serious congressional representation yet?

@Yuuki "haha, they believe in the conservation of energy"

4:31 PM

@Yuuki The Road Not Taken?

I'm pretty sure it predates the rebooted X-Com and probably even the original.

> "what kind of psychotic monsters are you to have such ridiculous weaponry?"
> "s'what happens when you fight an existential conflict for a few decades"

localized entirely to your planet so it's not like interstellar transportation is high on your list of priorities

@vicky_molokh Nope, I think it was an XCOM/Mass Effect crossover.

It's actually remarkable how there's enough works for there to be a subcategory for Mass Effect fanfiction: First Contact War fanfiction.

And it ranges from "what if Earth developed differently" to "what would happen if you swapped in <choose your own humanity from other sci-fi works>" (like Halo, XCOM, etc.).

@NautArch we had a meta somewhere about hard questions, and mxy's (or doppel's?) point was "hard questions are OK, and it is OK to wait for answers. Patience is OK. What is not OK is tossing in a low quality answer to a hard question, (and thus recommendation to down vote or delete low quality answers ... )." Now I need to find that meta ....

@KorvinStarmast Hard is okay, but too broad is different.

4:47 PM

@NautArch You are correct. And I think KRyan is also correct in that it is answerable if an expert shows up ... SE is designed so that hard questions don't get answers until the rare expert who can answer it finds and answers it; SE is designed to be insensitive to time for that reason, which is why it is never too late to answer an “old” question which is actually from SSD, not mxy or doppel

3

Is the D&D 5E Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron entirely supplanted by the new Eberron: Rising from the Last War book?

@G.Moylan Not really; it is its own thing, and it is a sub set of what is in ERflLW as the SRD is a sub set of MM and PHB.

13

Q: What is "Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron"?

I have seen that WotC is coming out with a Eberron campaign source book titled Eberron: Rising from the Last War - but I have seen references to something called Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron, which I thought was the Eberron campaign guide. What is Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron?

dnd-5e books eberron

@G.Moylan But those of us who bought the original PDF and got some of the updates are , shall we say, not necessarily pleased at getting no credit for the hard back. 8^p

So what about things like the Changeling, which now has two rulesets?

4:51 PM

@G.Moylan pick the one you like for your table, but I'd suggest the E:RftLW. (I like the Artificer version in the hardback better also)

@KorvinStarmast It'll be what it'll be :) I think the issue with this is more the broadness (we've asked others who have posted homebrew with multiple subclasses to separate them) than the 'being hard' bit. But as I said, I'm just going to move on and let others in the community handle it.

as Naut's answer points out, the Wayfinder's guide is more playtest than "official" all said and done

I'm just confused, because some of the Wayfinder's content was retconned with the new book, and some seems to have remained

@G.Moylan yeah, confusing it is. Agree 100%

It doesn't help that when I view the new book in the DDB marketplace, it links be back to Wayfinder's for the content I "already own"

4:53 PM

@G.Moylan Are they different? My book matches the WGtE version currently on D&DB.

@Someone_Evil WGTE was partially overwritten with the new content.

but not EVERYTHING was, so now we have to Changelings, for example

The version originally in WGtE was the UA version, no?

it was like UA+, but more or less yes

<insert brief rant about updating a document without having a changelog/edit history>

@KorvinStarmast i'm totally on board with that sentiment too though

4:56 PM

but now I don't even know what to buy on DDB. I supposedly already own all the subraces from WGTE, but IDK which ones of those were 100% overwritten by last war and which ones weren't

You are allowed to play with outdated versions of things at least

Even for Changeling, it just links me back to WGTE

but I can't tell what the heck is still outdated and what is up-to-date, since there's no log

idk what has or hasn't changed

Pretty sure all the WGtE content is supposed to have been updated to E:RftLW content. Do we not have a question on this somewhere?

Hmm... not really

what a confusing mess. Apparently in DDB my old WGtE content is now showing as being sourced from Last War

so I guess WGtE is just "doesn't exist" now as far as DDB is concerned? if that's the case, and I'm buying the same text regardless of which product I purchase, then why would WGtE even still be listed as a source book?,

@G.Moylan $$$

5:06 PM

@NautArch but it's the SAME TEXT

@doppelgreener I will probably find a few bon mots from both you and mxy if I dig into all of the comments under that meta ...

@G.Moylan dndbeyond.com/sources/wgte

@G.Moylan you can't even buy it twice

@Someone_Evil I know, I own it.

@doppelgreener yep; we still have a wizard who is a lore master in our Tier 3 campaign ..

@G.Moylan And all the content is there, no?

5:07 PM

@G.Moylan Given that DDB isn't run by WoTC, one is bound to run into the occasional glitch. I think we've got some users here who have identified some of them ...

@Someone_Evil it is but the TEXT is the Last War text, if I'm looking at all of this correctly

I'm looking for a PDF of the old WGtE for comparison

Dec 11 '19 at 19:05, by V2Blast

@Someone_Evil Yes, the 2018 UA Eberron content is generally identical to the initial version of WGTE. I think there might have been a few minor changes to WGTE right before the parts of it went through UA.

@Someone_Evil that's the UA portion

There are two books. WGtE and Rising from the Last War. The newest book's text has been pasted into the old WGtE source in DDB. Now, when I am creating a class and I select Warforged, it says the source is the Last War book, and NOT the WGtE, even though I do not own the new book.

When I go to the marketplace and look at the new book, it shows I already own a bunch of content from that bok, even though I haven't made any purchases from the new source. The old source has been effectively replaced in DDB, to the extent that the old source effectively no longer exists

@G.Moylan I have the old versioun in pdf on a different machine .... will discuss with you later.

5:49 PM

@G.Moylan Someone should ask about this on mainsite, because I'm pretty confused about all that WGtE RftLW stuff.

@NautArch I'm still kind of a noob on this site. Do we chat here, or should I start a new chat room?

also, ty for your answer

@Raj here is fine :) I won't go into spoilers here, but if you wan tto get into that, we should move to a different room.

@Raj Yup! This is our general chat and you are more than welcome to talk about almost anything on the site or off it here (assuming you stay Nice and polite).

But overall, the first third was a lot of fun @Raj.

@Rubiksmoose I'll work on it and try to have it done by end of day. My lunch is coming up so I'll do a little then

5:55 PM

I don't want spoilers yet, although most likely I will be the DM.
Although my group will have a mix of experience for D&D, most of them are Rick & Morty fans (the notable exception would be my fiancee, but she has seen a couple episodes with me).

@Raj You definitely don't have to have seen the show to enjoy it. My group played their characters a bit like the the 'players' of the characters. Summer's character was played a bit like Summer, etc.

Did I miss any considerations, in my question?
In theory I want to start as many campaigns as possible, but realistically this would be my 3rd. Even if I had the time + energy to be in 3 ongoing campaigns, I don't think that my friends would. Not to mention the usual drama of scheduling D&D

@Raj It's definitely pretty short. In contrast, the Stranger Things campaign is probably like 1 3-4 hour session.

A one-off adventure would be great, but I really want to play R&M first. I definitely though about Stranger Things, maybe that will be next

I'm also not caught up on ST

@Raj Also not required :) Either am I. The adventure is Mike's adventure in Season 1. There is actually pretty much zero overlap with show story. It's just his adventure and fighting the Thessalhydra and a Demogorgon.

6:47 PM

Yes: ST boxed set doesn't require being caught up and also doesn't spoil anything.

6:58 PM

Wow, shog robert and jon all gone. I guess I missed something in my weekish away (again). I gotta stop taking breaks from SE, the last two have coincided with some pretty heavy disruptions.

who are they

[rummages meta.SE]

don't worry about it

677

Q: Firing Community Managers: Stack Exchange is not interested in cooperating with the community, is it?

Less than a month ago, there was some settling of the incident with firing Monica. It's obvious that there was not a lot of approval from the community on the course of action chosen by SE, or the settlement. Today, we are seeing a new wave of SE actions targeted on work with the community: firi...

discussion support community company community-managers

I make no representation as to the conclusions expressed therein ^^, but it at least links to a lot of the relevant touchstones.

@JohnP We've got no information about it from SE, but plenty from Shog and Robert. SE is getting a ton of flak for the nonsense they made Juan peddle out. Shog made it clear CMs have almost no agency at this point, here's a thread: twitter.com/shog9/status/1217542885605662720

7:06 PM

@doppelgreener I saw that. I follow Shog, but I'm not on twitter much.

tldr is the role of the CMs within the company changed completely several years ago and we're only finding out now.

also in question is where SE lies with regards to the company now.

@goodguy5 Shog is one of the longest tenured Community Managers (The mods for the overall site, basically), and Robert pretty much ran/curated Area 51. Jon is also a very long tenured CM.

hrm. peculiar

Yeah, definitely odd.

One of them, and I forget who (not Shog) said in their personal blog that they quit over their personal beliefs after all the nonsense that happened this past fall

something about a "conflict of ethics"

7:21 PM

Long story short: if you see a CM give them a (virtual) hug. They are working incredibly hard to do the best for us

They are, and in a tough, tough environment, it seems like.

@G.Moylan I think that was Strongbad? Except he was a site moderator, not a community mod.

I know Jon wrote a personal blog post about things, but I am unsure if it used that phrase when he was talking about his community manager stuff.

Overall, I think SE has had 20-30 site moderators suspend and/activity or step down since the beginning of this kerfuffle. At least 18 resignations that I know of.

@Ash I'm paraphrasing, but one of them quit and moved on to a new job that they've had lined up since November. His personal blog said he felt squicky over the stuff this past fall, and started job hunting at that time

7:28 PM

> The double-edged sword of attention meant more resources have been going to community-related projects, but also leadership has asserted more control. Unfortunately, their decisions repeatedly violated my standards for healthy community management. By November I was actively looking for a new job.

@G.Moylan You're thinking of Jon I think

@JohnP I think that's it

@Rubiksmoose sounds right

That's from Jon's blog post

Ah, yeah, that's it

I just hope maybe now we are at the dust settling moving on to whatever the heck is next point.

I don't know if it is going to be a good move, but at this point I just want to see....something.

Things are moving. Time will tell how and where and if it's awful or not.

But yeah, we can't stay here for sure.

7:35 PM

@Rubiksmoose You mean here in the Pit of Despair (TM)?

lol

@doppelgreener I have already made my guess on that at the Meta SE post about the CEO's recent blog on the state of SO. My guess: SE's will be spun off if they are not technical SEs.

@JohnP I understand this reference! :P

@Ash :D

@Ash Not suitable for posting openly (language) - i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/903/965/353.jpg

@doppelgreener This was my SWAG

@JohnP That's a fine picture. Have an updoot

7:44 PM

@KorvinStarmast hahaha! I just like the image of Obama with a guinness. :D

codidact and a couple of other sites seem to be looking for some serious migrations in the future

@G.Moylan I don't know how it works as far as sourcing of content goes in DDB's character builder, but I do have access to all 3 versions of WGtE. As far as character content goes, all the stuff that appeared in WGtE was updated to the final versions of that content as it appears in E:RftLW. Things that did not appear in WGtE (e.g. the new version of the Orc race) in the first place were not added to WGtE, with the exception of the artificer class and only the Alchemist subclass for it.

The "lore" bits of WGtE basically have been left unchanged, and I assume are slightly different in wording from what's stated in E:RftLW. Regarding the specific changes to WGtE in the 3 different iterations of it that have appeared:

Dec 11 '19 at 21:16, by V2Blast

@KorvinStarmast There have basically been 3 versions of WGTE so far (though v1 and v2 are almost identical, barring 2 dragonmarks that slightly changed). This changelog covers what changed between initial release and UA. I've seen no changelog that covers all changes between the UA version the current/"final" release.

@KorvinStarmast It would be great if Codidact actually had a site, but they don't yet. Only forums and a skeleton.

@Rubiksmoose Rome wasn't burned in a day. 8^D

@Rubiksmoose This is my concern too - everyone keeps touting it as the go-to replacement, but it's far from ready.

7:50 PM

@KorvinStarmast But with two kids and a mama wolf, it sure was built in one.

So at this point, there doesn't seem to be good options, and even if you migrate the content...I am willing to bet you are not going to migrate a large number of the users

@Rubiksmoose Yeah, I saw this brought up in Tavern on the Meta a day or two ago:

in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, yesterday, by Cerbrus

The problem with Codidact... It's already behing hailed as THE site that's going to replace SE.

@KorvinStarmast Well sure. But if they were a hotel right now it would be a partial foundation and a partial sketch of what they want it to look like. In no state to be welcoming customers

It's a laudable thing they're trying to do, to make a SE killer, effectively

But I don't think it's going to be ready as soon as it might need to, for the mass adoption they're hoping for from the remnants of this...series of debacles.

Not for the average user, anyhow.

@Rubiksmoose yes, I can wait. We'll see what happens.

7:54 PM

And also, always be wary of "site killers" for reasons other than infrastructure (see: Voat).

I am a little concerned at this point that "fix all teh problems of SE out of the gate" is too big of a goal to start

@Ash oh, yeah, it's nothing if not ambitious. @Yuuki yeah, that too

Start with fixing like a handful of the biggest perceived issues, then iterate.

@G.Moylan Anyway, the tl;dr is that it's listed as a separate book there because WotC sold it as one, despite the current overlap with E:RftLW, and thus other distributors (I think only DDB currently distributes both products) follow suit. It wouldn't be worth getting WGtE now that E:RftLW is out; if you already owned WGtE, it might be worth buying the few bits and pieces you don't already own. (Changeling and other WGtE races are now the same in both.)

I think it's going to eat itself in terms of scope, if they want to "profit" off of SE's current state.

7:56 PM

@Ash if the objective is profit, then I'll guess that your prediction is spot on.

@Ash Exactly and sadly. Because they would be in a beautiful place to accept people fleeing from here if they had it all set up.

@Yuuki Voat should be a case study for any entrepreneur who gets the bright idea to try to just cannibalize a platform to remake it in their own image.

Or maybe a warning sign.

In bright neon letters, reading "DO YOU WANT CHUDS? BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU GET CHUDS".

@KorvinStarmast For sure, I'm keeping an eye on progress there and thinking about pitching in a bit if I can.

The thing that worries me the most is that if SE decided to cut the Network loose, we (RPG.se community) would have no comparable place to relocate as of now.

@Rubiksmoose what about shog's basement?

@Yuuki hah! Who's bringing the beer?

8:00 PM

@KorvinStarmast I meant more being able to take the humans who are currently frustrated but who aren't interested/able in helping build the infrastructure

@Rubiksmoose mixing internet strangers, alcohol, and tabletop roleplaying? i'm not sure i can share the razor edge you're living on

@Rubiksmoose From what I can read, at least right now it doesn't sound liek they're gonna.

@Rubiksmoose Yeah.

@Ash Thankfully! That's what I'm seeing and hearing as well. At least for the time being.

I just think about when they shuttered SE 1.0 sites, and very few thrived through that. (I remember it well, because I literally moderated one of the attempts at redoing a SE1.0 site on SE as it is now, and....oh gosh, I miss Libraries.SE)

@Yuuki mixing internet strangers, alcohol, and tabletop roleplaying where do I sign up? I started table top role plaing with alcohol and friends both ... how does the internet really mess that up? (He asks, knowing part of the answer already ..)

8:02 PM

Dan Olson made a very good video about the now defunct VidMe, about how sites that just try to cannibalize existing sites tend to just attract the people that were too toxic for the original site.

@Yuuki I can't think of any better way to mix internet strangers and TTRPGs. ;-) Alcohol is a pretty good social solvent for those who imbibe.

(Note the timestamp on that video: 6 months before VidMe declared they would be shutting down)

I'll bring my own ginger ale :)

@Ash Mmmm. I like me some ginger ale.

@Ash Ale? Perfect libation for TTRPG. 8^D

8:03 PM

I can't have alcohol, so just the bubbly soda for me.

I'm getting fairly ok at my non-alcoholic cocktail mixing recently.

My son got us started on Moscow Mules, with mint, vodka, ginger beer, and those copper drinking cups.

@Rubiksmoose oh? :)

@Ash I understand, was trying to make a joke, but as I don't have enough bard levels, failed ...

@KorvinStarmast I wasn't sure if that was the case, because my brain is ten steps behind today.

8:04 PM

@Ash I'm going to try making my own lemon soda sometime soon. Got lemons in my backyard and one bottle of Topo Chico that I haven't opened yet.

Yup! Several people in my friend group don't drink and I always try to make them feel as included as the alcohol drinkers when I host. Tricky part is I don't get nearly as much practice because most of my drink-making practice is for myself at home lol

@Ash A good general rule on my posts is-if it doesn't make sense, first check to see if I am trying to make a joke. I am one of many out of work stand up comedians who really appreciates being able to eat and pay the rent ...

...many of my jokes fall flat.

lol

@KorvinStarmast This is why you send your jokes off a ramp, that way they would at least bounce at minimum.

@Yuuki Oooh, let me know how it goes!

@Rubiksmoose I'd be a willing practice human if I wasn't so far away :P

@KorvinStarmast grins noted.

8:06 PM

@Yuuki I'll remember that next time I get a shot at open mic night. (My first try was over a decade ago, a five minute routine takes ... a ton of prep. ANd is not guaranteed to work

@Rubiksmoose BESW can just make a channel for us on his discord server it's fine

I felt like Boromir near the end of FoTR: "I'm dyin' up here!"

At least you weren't like Faramir: the same but also your father doesn't love you.

@Ash You're not actually that far lol. But not a convenient drink testing distance for sure lol

@Rubiksmoose we'd need a reeeeeeally big straw.

@Carcer that only would really help chat, though

8:12 PM

@Ash it wasn't a serious suggestion

@Ash Border agent: "Why is the guy laying down a thin tube across the border?"

@Carcer ah, okay. I have seen a bunch of people actually suggesting discord as a SE replacement so I was not sure.

@Rubiksmoose laughs I don't think "I am trying to hydrate my friends" is a good enough answer :P

lol

also, I definitely am replacing chat with discord in the event the site drops it, technically I've already done every step except not coming to chat here XD

@trogdor I really miss the ability to reply to a single message in Discord though. Honestly the SE chat system is one of my favorites in terms of user-facing stuff. (moderation tools though...)

yeah

that would be nice, because sometimes I start typing a reply to someone and they say something after what I am replying to

8:17 PM

@Rubiksmoose Slack still has that.

@Rubiksmoose sometimes I find myself clicking the little elipsis in Discord and going "huh why can't I link my reply" and then I realize OH YEAH

so I agree completely, that would be a nice feature, and it's great that these chats have it

@Yuuki but Slack sucks

@Yuuki Oh yeah? I think it has been years and years since I last used it.

We should just breed all of these chat sites. That's how genetic algorithms work, right?

8:18 PM

lol

Also, the search functionality in discord is shoddy as heck.

@Xirema yeah having to scroll through hundreds of non-matching results is a PITA

Trying to search for my own messages on my D&D discord is difficult enough even when I actually have the important stuff pinned.

@Yuuki I don't love Slack. :(

@Xirema that's definitely not my favorite either, basically I am not trying to say Discord is perfect XD

8:19 PM

Mind you a lot of it is out of sight out of mind

@G.Moylan I can't even figure out how to get it to work. I type in something like "Session Summary", a phrase I use every time I wrap a session, and it turns up 0 results.

I am REALLY GOOD at forgetting the discord servers I am in exist.

2

Discord is basically Slack but less corporate

Seems to work fine on mobile, but on the desktop app? Zilch.

@Xirema it's super terrible. I've found it to work best with searching handles and then you have to just scroll through posts

@Carcer Slack is Discord but with fewer features and a terrible administrative system

8:22 PM

and it's "business-oriented"

Being administrators in both, and multiples of both, Slack is WAY less-granular in terms of how you can configure roles and stuff. AND it's a much bigger pain to configure

The only feature in Slack that I actually appreciate is the conversation linking. Every other feature is just done better in Discord

Neither are perfect. They both have room for improvement. But Slack has a lot of catching up to do

You can tell it was designed with corporate stuff in mind. It's setup like you would setup a microsoft product.

with web-based "admin panel"-type crap in the backend

@G.Moylan With CD keys and hours of complaining?

@Yuuki SQL Flashbacks. Also ANY engineering software ever.

Oh and don't even get me started with installing BizTalk. That thing was a nightmare. Had to entirely re-write the documentation on how to configure

I don't remember what the exact issue was, but there was a bug with the install that you had to have a specific setting somewhere changed at just the right time before installing a bunch of SDKs or you had to blank everything and start over, because by the time you realized the setting was wrong, stuff had been configured to depend on that setting already, and you couldn't make changes without breakign everything

and this had nearly zero documentation. I had to spend a week figuring that out before putting it in our installation documentation

I should have known the mere mention of bad Microsoft installs would trigger my war-time corporate flashbacks

Ugh. MTG is so dumb.

I play the whole game, getting the enemy down to 1 hp. I have 28 hp.

Then they back-to-back play two planes walkers and I can't get anything on the field because of bs.

They whittle me down and I lose from 28:1

@goodguy5 "Planeswalkers are lazy design and bad for the game" - FTFY

8:36 PM

basically

Play Pauper, the eternal format with guaranteed 0% planeswalkers

@Ash that's why I am only in 3

I still forget 2 of them (though that's partly because one is too active and one isn't active enough

@trogdor nods I'm in three, and I generally remember about 1 of them reasonably well

:P

lol

can't possibly be the same one I remember

what are the odds

:P

Turns out @Ash and @trogdor are both moderators on extreme freestyle snowboard knitting.

8:42 PM

lol

I have no idea why I would be in a Discord about snowboarding AND knitting when I don't do either of those things

@trogdor Fine, Ski-Crocheting

lol

@trogdor my aunt once knitted me a snow board. I thought it was a scarf, so I wore it.

uh

huh?

that is confusing

it might be because I just woke up relatively recently

9:10 PM

@trogdor another horrible attempt at a korvinjoke. They can't all be gems. :-) it was a reply to this I have no idea why I would be in a Discord about snowboarding AND knitting when I don't do either of those things so I went for the absurd conclusion about knitting snow boards

ah fair enough

if I was more awake I might have caught it better

fair enough

I realize that was what it was about now

And you are right, the Tonight snow is not calling my agent. :)

I'm a weird type of morning person, I wake up early but I use a lot of the extra time to actually fully wake up

I try to avoid waking up whenever possible

@trogdor my brain is awake as soon as I wake up. My body, on the other hand, takes a little warming up.

9:19 PM

lol to both of you

I have literally had my brain wake up before the rest of me before

but no normally my body and brain are both only really at like 50% immediately

and slowly but steadily go up from there

9:40 PM

@trogdor And this is why Coffee was adapted for human use :)

nah don't like coffee

Tea?

tea is fine but I don't always have it in the morning

I had a friend who used to drink a 16 oz coca cola first thing in the morning. I asked him why and he said: "Tastes better than coffee, and has the same effect on me."

caffeine is ok but I try not to become dependant on it to wake up or stay up or anything

and that has worked out for me pretty well so far

9:42 PM

@trogdor If I could undo my caffeine addiction, I would, but I think I am too far gone.

Being off of cigarettes for the past few years is effort enough

Hmm, I wonder if my long suspension in 2017 coincided with my latest "stop smoking" decision; I tend to get very grumpy when I quit. or if I quit in 2016. Having trouble remembering ...

Headcanon: goblin names are just the simple, easy names they've chosen for interaction with humans, who are so bad at pronouncing real goblin names that the goblins don't even ask us to try anymore.

@Rubiksmoose So... like Sochi Olympics?

@BESW This describes every Thai student I've ever had.

Yeah, that interaction is where I'm getting the concept.

After some conversations about "what goblins mean to you" in the RPGSEA chat, I'm writing an entry for Goblinweek 2020.

@KorvinStarmast yeah that's why I don't plan to aquire one

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