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1:04 PM
@NautArch mock accusatory voice: What did you do?
 
@Someone_Evil I can't even think of anything recent :)
 
@NautArch I'm desperately looking for an answer of yours I can downvote.
 
@goodguy5 Don't break the chain! They're downvoting questions :)
 
Oh! how silly of me
 
Gotta say, levitate is an awesome spell
 
1:08 PM
@NautArch What cool use did you put it to?
 
@NautArch take that!
Though, I think I also upvoted something.
 
@Someone_Evil We were trying to rescue some prisoners. Had one group attempt a distraction at the front gate while another group attempted to sneak up to the back. Distraction failed, but my Wizard let the group advance forward, supporting with firebolts. Once the area was cleared a bit, I came up and cast sleep on 3 of them, stepped over their bodies.
Next round, I got close enough to a big bad melee guy and levitated him out of effective combat. Firebolted him again the next round and nearly killed him. The last round, I brought him up to 50' and dropped him. Dead.
@goodguy5 Ouch, did you just downvote me to 0 on that duration duplicate?
 
@NautArch lmao yeah
 
I found this slightly amusing
 
GcL
@NautArch How many more downvotes do you need?
 
1:13 PM
@kviiri I'm glad I'm working from home today, because I found it highly amusing and chortled pretty hard
 
@goodguy5 Oh dear, they don't tolerate chortling at your office? What about giggles, snickers or cackles?
 
GcL
@NautArch I've seen a couple of post edits and comments that seemed displeased with you and puzzle elk.
Nothing in the past day or two though.
 
I mean, they tolerate it, because I do it often enough and I haven't been fired yet on account of jollyness.

But I am a hard laugher.
 
@NautArch BADWRONGFUN
>When the spell ends, the target floats gently to the ground if it is still aloft.
 
When I serial downvote people,
the first day, I downvote one of their questions
the second day, I downvote one of their answers
the third day, I flag one of their comments
the fourth day, I flag them in chat, if applicable.
the fifth day, I report them to the World Wide Web Consortium
the sixth day, I reverse ip hack them and leave a red down arrow on their porch step
the seventh day, I rest
 
1:29 PM
on the eighth day of downvotes, goodguy gave to meee
 
XD
 
5. comment. flaaags
 
13
Q: As of the November 2018 core book updates, what changes were made in the latest printings of the PHB that aren't noted in the errata document?

V2BlastThe D&D 5e core books were updated with a new printing as of November 2018 (alongside the release of the Core Rules Gift Set), as can be seen from a number of new questions and updated answers referencing these changes. Some examples of the new questions: Does casting Disintegrate on a polymor...

 
GcL
@goodguy5 I just downvote all of your chats all the time.
 
1:40 PM
@kviiri Over the game you build up a handful of cards that represent the power actions you can take, and at various breakpoints of elemental force from cards you get extra bonuses. Keeping track of your own abilities is manageable. Keeping track of everyone's is hard.
 
@Carcer oh no!
well, there goes that. totally missed it.
he was gonna die anyway. :D
 
2:01 PM
@Glazius Oh ok. That sounds desirable
 
@GcL puzzle elk? Anything I should be aware of to try and fix?
@Carcer talked to my DM, won't do it again :)
 
@NautArch I was trying to be silly and personally I'd probably let you deliberately hard drop something you'd levitated if you wanted
 
6
Q: If I have the War Caster feat, can I use the Thorn Whip cantrip to stop an enemy caster from escaping using the Dimension Door spell?

user56399Assume I am playing a druid or warlock with the War Caster feat, which allows me to cast single target spells in place of using a melee attack of opportunity. I also know the thorn whip cantrip. A successful hit with thorn whip can allow me to pull the target 10 feet. I am facing an opponent with...

 
@Carcer I kinda get not allowing it (beyond the actual rules.) It's turns into a soft, single-target Reverse Gravity.
It's already fairly powerful in-combat and as utility. I'm okay following the written rule.
 
fair
it's hardly a unique save or suck though, and it targets con, which the big melee things it effectively neutralises are probably good at saving
 
2:13 PM
Just dragging the melee guy up into the air was awesome.
@Carcer Not with my portent die :) And there's no save after the initial.
 
yeah
 
fall damage does escalate at a significant rate. It isn't difficult to achieve fireball damage levels on a single target when dropping them
with no save
 
@G.Moylan Levitate's height is capped at 60', but that can change if you move them over a cliff :)
 
at 1d6 every 10 feet you still get 6d6 out of that
 
@G.Moylan yeah, it's no joke.
Better to follow the slow rate of fall for the spell
 
2:19 PM
I had a player recently trivialize an entire encounter with a super-golem by tossing a hole from their Robe of Useful Items on the floor. The golem failed a DEX save, and into the hole it went
they proceeded to beat it to death as it tried to climb out
 
@G.Moylan that's beautiful
I'd probably toss an inspiration out for that
 
it was simultaneously frustrating but I couldn't help but laugh at how clever-dumb their solution was
 
I mean, they wanted to expend the item. It's burned, so w/e
 
I did reward them with inspiration. And they rolled well on their checks to loot the wizard's lab afterword
so they came out of that nicely
 
I just tell myself that every monster I throw down will be jankily killed in a way I didn't expect.
 
2:22 PM
@goodguy5 that's a good way to look at it.
Frustrated isn't the right word. Disappointed, maybe? The golem did a lot of cool stuff that they never got to see
but that's the way it goes
 
@G.Moylan That just means they get to see the cool stuff when they infiltrate the golem factory and have to fend off the mad foreman in a few levels.
 
GcL
@NautArch a segmented square prism with antlers.
 
@GcL oh, ha! That took my way too long.
 
@goodguy5 I'm using these "hyper-intelligent" golems as a lead-up to explaining the existence of warforged. Currently the emperor is after this golem technology
 
ah, the prologue to AI
 
2:25 PM
@GcL HA puzzle elk...
one day they might encounter the Lord of Blades, and that should be a hell of a fight
or whatever his name is
the warforged that hates living humanoids
 
GcL
The one in the mournland?
 
@G.Moylan Model 814173 (BLADE)
 
GcL
My version of that warforged was a rather glum individual who had been run through and forcibly bonded by a few sentient swords... that I modeled on the fairies from Cinderalla.
One of my players who loved that movie as a child nearly fell out of their chair when two of the swords could be heard arguing about "make it blue!" vs "make it pink!"
 
@G.Moylan The Terminator?
HAL3000?
 
2:40 PM
@G.Moylan holy smokes
 
Ben
I don't know why this made me laugh so hard
 
@Ben Given that Ron was the one that managed to break into the Chamber of Secrets by pretending to know Parseltongue, I'm a bit offended that he's the Barbarian and not the Rogue.
 
Is Pathfinder considered "an edition" of D&D?
 
2:56 PM
@JohnP it is usually loosely considered D&D 3.75, since it has been designed to be backward-compatible with 3.5
but only in a loose sense, and never official
 
@G.Moylan Hrm. Well, it's about all I can find, so we'll see what he thinks of it.
 
GcL
@JohnP I have a question about that with a very satisfying answer
71
Q: What is Pathfinder's relationship to D&D?

GcLPathfinder is often conflated with D&D, 4e I think, but it isn't actually named "Dungeons & Dragons." What is Pathfinder's relationship to D&D, and how does it fit in with the various D&D editions?

 
I answered yes (sort of) to the question on the gloom blade. He's asking for "Is there any official lore from any edition of D&D"
 
I think it is mostly a comment on the three character-archetypes that often cause the most problems with the law and stuff. If I were to *actually* give them classes (other than the obvious wizard), it would be these:

Harry: Paladin (Oath of Devotion) - I don't know if I could think of better words for Harry's charterization than honesty, courage, compassion, honor, and duty
Hermione: Cleric (Knowledge Domain) - while she isn't devout per se, it is hard to argue that she wouldn't align with the Knowledge Domain (Bard (College of Lore) also would be fitting with Expertise in Arcana, Na
 
@DavidCoffron Nah, Harry (Wizard), Hermione (Wizard), and Ron (Wizard).
 
3:09 PM
> other than the obvious wizard
xD
 
Well, given how HP magic works, I guess it's actually Harry (Sorcerer), Hermione (Sorcerer), and Ron (Sorcerer).
 
Well... I don't know if its sorcery. They still do need to study
 
GcL
@Yuuki Sorcerers don't need nor use books! It's blood magic I tell you!
 
It's just in that world, only magic-folk can use magic at all
 
@DavidCoffron They can cast all the spells know rather than having to prepare a selection every day, magic is passed down through bloodline (barring squibs and Muggleborn), and most characters seem to have dumped INT for CHA.
 
3:12 PM
@Yuuki Well when you put it that way...
 
GcL
@Yuuki They didn't use point buy. They rolled straight 6's on all the dice.
 
Also, later on in the series, they can apply metamagic to spells (silent casting).
 
@GcL Well... idk bout that. Incompetency is one of the biggest plotpoints in the series
It's just that all the main characters have the Lucky feat
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron I no longer make the mistake of assuming highly intelligent and capable people can't be incompetent.
@DavidCoffron hero protagonist feat.
 
Honestly, I wish the HP world was devised by a different author. It's such an interesting world, but Rowling is not an interesting writer a good writer of interesting stories.
 
3:16 PM
do you not conisder he HP books interesting?
 
I don't know enough about her other work(s) to say that problems with HP are due to her writing style and not growing pains.
 
@G.Moylan I used to, but the more I tried to learn about the world, the more I realized how poorly thought out the books are
 
@DavidCoffron it seemed she didn't create the story as a whole before she started writing. I get the feeling she kindof made it up as she went along. At least later in the series
 
@G.Moylan Right, which is fine. There are many series' that do that, but they stay internally consistent (or at least more so than those books)
 
Book 1 seems well thought-out but they seem to slowly fray as you go from there
but I still found them interesting
what are some inconsistencies you've found?
 
3:21 PM
@G.Moylan I just lost interest when I realized how futile it is to try to understand the characters and the world (since there is no reason behind it)
@G.Moylan How long have you got?
 
lol
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron Five minutes
Just give me the indiana jones highlights
 
There are inconsistencies in the world, the characters' motivations, and in the plots. The biggest ones to me are the changing rules of how magic works, the ridiculousness of the discrepancy between the competency of different organizations, and the major plot holes in almost every story.
 
how do the rules of magic change? It's been a while since I've read the books.
 
Hoo boy, plot holes. Let me get right out in front of this by saying that people doing dumb things is not a plot hole.
 
3:23 PM
@DavidCoffron midichlorians say what? :D
 
GcL
@NautArch No. That's how star trek phasers work
 
That may or may not be what you mean, but I've seen "plot hole" used that way a lot.
 
@Yuuki Hmmm.... now that you mention it, there are some instances where that might qualify, but there are others where it is more clear the plot lacking to consider aspects previously explored in the same book
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron anything glaringly obvious and succinct?
 
@GcL I think the most glaring is the implementation of the Trace.
 
3:28 PM
There's some mismatches on character ages and dates, particularly those of the previous generation, but I just chalk that up to Rowling being bad at math.
 
It's supposedly a method to prevent the exposure of magic to muggles, but doesn't do that at all. All it does is ping when an underage wizard uses magic (which makes no sense)
I get that the ministry doesn't want untrained wizards to use magic, but why is the Trace implemented in such a way that it is only actionable if there are also muggles nearby
 
GcL
Huh... hadn't thought much about that mechanic.
Something not actually doing what it's intended to do... too real.
 
Do we know that it only pings when muggles are nearby? Could be that it pings when underage wizards cast magic outside of the immediate vicinity of an overage wizard and then it's only brought to trial if "hey, you happened to be in Times Square".
 
@DavidCoffron This says nothing about being near muggles: harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Trace
 
@Yuuki That's possible
 
3:31 PM
@G.Moylan except as postulation of the use of the spell in the Films
 
I definitely had the impression on reading that Rowling's world lacked some internal consistency but I don't recall the details and I do not have the motivation to go and reread now
 
My personal experience is that a lot (though clearly not all) of perceived problems with HP lore is rooted in fanon.
Although you have to wonder how small the wizarding population must be if the entirety of a continent's population (with the exception of Europe) can fit into a single school.
 
@Carcer One of the famous ones is the fact that the Weasley twins never noticed Peter Pettigrew with Ron using the Marauder's Map
 
There's apparently only nine wizarding schools in the world.
 
@Yuuki Could just be that wizards originate from Europe meaning they haven't expanded much beyond that
 
3:37 PM
@DavidCoffron For one, do we know that the Map reveals the dorms? For two, Pettigrew was one of the four who made the map.
 
and Rowling herself is displeasant for reasons beyond some inconsistency and headscratchers
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron That's a good one. Although, they only would have noticed when Ron was at hogwarts. How long did they have the map while Ron was there?
 
@Yuuki Except we know he shows up on it later in the series. As for the dorms, I'm not sure. but Ron has the rat with him other times
 
Granted, most consensus is that Pettigrew was more of a tagalong than anything.
 
@GcL Two years, but the rat is a hand-me-down, so the rat has been to Hogwarts longer
Portkeys also work differently throughout Goblet of Fire
(and are never used any time before then, but that's something else entirely)
 
3:42 PM
The key thing I remember is that the one in Goblet of Fire activates at a specific time while the one in Goblet of Fire activates on contact.
 
And I know that stupid people things is not a plot hole, but why on Earth wouldn't Voldemort make some of his horcruxes portkeys to like, above a volcano or something
 
But I figured that was just some kind of configuration thing.
 
@Yuuki That could be too, but it just isn't described in meaningful ways. It takes apologetics to make the story cohesive.
 
@DavidCoffron Can Horcruxes be Portkeys?
 
@Yuuki According to pottermore, "Almost any inanimate object can be turned into a Portkey." so maybe not, but its more apologetics
 
3:44 PM
IIRC, in canon they repel most magic.
 
@Yuuki If not, you could just make the container a portkey
 
Like Ron or Harry nearly died when the locket fell in a frozen lake and they couldn't Summon it.
Yeah, it's a dumb but I think a more in-character move for Voldemort if we're putting Horcruxes in Portkeys is sending the person to him and not into a volcano.
 
GcL
Can a grenade but not the pin be a portkey?
or maybe just the pin
really depends on which way you want this to go
 
@GcL Muggle items and magic don't mix easily
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron I saw a flying car once.
 
3:53 PM
@GcL Apparently the only one of its kind (and Mr. Weasley is obsessed with muggle-stuff, but doesn't know what a rubber duck is)
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron it's not a grenade.
 
Well, in Book 6, it's explained that because Voldemort is so self-aggrandizing that he doesn't expect anyone to be able to figure out where he put his Horcruxes nor powerful enough to get past his defenses, he prefers to trap them rather than outright kill them.
 
Also, muggle technology apparently doesn't work in Hogwarts for some reason
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron okay... uh.. wizard grenade
 
@Yuuki Except he knows Dumbledore is a thing, and voices his fear of him
Occulmency is another thing that is glossed over too much to understand
 
3:55 PM
@DavidCoffron I don't think Voldy ever outright states his fear of Dumbledore, other people say it.
 
@DavidCoffron And the one Horcrux they go after happens to have a trap is literally unsolvable without another person to shove potion down your throat.
 
@DavidCoffron I don't remember enough about the books/movies, do they not use anything mundane? Is everything powered or provided by magic?
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron I really dislike psionics.
 
@Yuuki Maybe. That's the solution we saw, but there may have been others
 
And also has a trap that triggers based on magical power.
 
GcL
3:56 PM
@Yuuki That ring curse was going to kill dumbledore
 
@DavidCoffron I mean, that's just apologetics but the other way around.
 
@NautArch In book 4 it is mentioned that muggle tech doesn't work. THat's all I know (although Colin greevy has a pretty muggle-looking camera when compared to the camera used by Rita SKeeter)
 
@NautArch For the horcruxes, yes, everything is magical.
 
@DavidCoffron I wonder where they draw the line on 'tech'.
 
@NautArch Post-industrial revolution?
 
3:57 PM
I mean, gears and pulleys are tech
 
Also, how did young adult Voldemort successfully curse the DADA teacher position (and never do something similar again), or was it just a massive line of cooincidences
 
Or is it more like a dresden files thing with modern technology
But I guess the steam engine is legit
but not the gasoline engine
 
@DavidCoffron As for how, that's "we don't know enough about magic". As for why he doesn't do it again, that's a "why is this character dumb" and not an inconsistency.
 
GcL
@NautArch Yeah, but the solution there is obvious... just drop a huge soviet era satellite on them.
 
@DavidCoffron That was after he had graduated, and already started making Horcruxes, so he was pretty advanced at that point. It's when he came back to apply for the DADA position that he put Ravenclaw's diadem in the RoR.
 
3:59 PM
@Yuuki I mean it is an inconsitency, just in the character, not the plot. he's supposed to be the greatest wizard of his generation
 
@GcL spoilers!
 
the problem with explaining how "mundane" objects work is you can literally just say magic
 
:D
 
@DavidCoffron "Some of the greatest wizards don't have an ounce of logic."
 
GcL
@G.Moylan magnets and rubber bands... freakin' magic
 
3:59 PM
@GcL i think peace talks is actually on the verge of coming out
 
GcL
@NautArch Yeah. It's been a while. I think I can go read another story where Harry gets beaten to heck and pulls it off in the end anyway.
 
@Yuuki Yes, the character that devised a plan to successfully fool Dumbledore is not clever enough to reuse a curse that he knows works on employment (say on the aurors so that none of them get experienced enough to challenge his Death Eaters)
 
@DavidCoffron do we know that he actually cursed the position though, or is it just something that he would have claimed?
 
@G.Moylan It is stated by someone else that he did. And somehow, we get one new DADA teacher every year for at leats a decade
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron I've been in a cursed job before. Didn't grow an evil face on the back of my head, but it was pretty bad.
I blame the tenure committee
 
4:03 PM
11
Q: In what year did Voldemort curse the DADA job

DVK-on-Ahch-ToDumbledore tells us that DADA professor job at Hogwarts was cursed - no teacher lasted for more than a year - ever since Voldemort was denied the position. "Oh, he definitely wanted the Defence Against the Dark Arts job. The Aftermath of our little meeting proved that. You see, we have not be...

 
Another thing is Vertiserum not being used in testimony
 
@DavidCoffron I mean, that's probably for other reasons.
Because you'll answer anything truthfully while under Veritaserum.
 
@Yuuki Right, but no one has willingly given themselves Vertiserum as a witness to corroborate their story?
 
@DavidCoffron Do we know that?
 
GcL
Let's take a poll.
 
4:04 PM
@Yuuki We know of examples in the books where it could have been done
 
Plus, truth is a sticky concept.
 
GcL
@Yuuki I thought it was used to coat those slippery slopes
 
IIRC, the DADA position was something he was emotionally invested in and magic behaves weirdly when emotions are involved.
 
GcL
And make those ad absurdems .... although I don't think absurdems really need that much marketing anyway.
 
Another thing is why Harry hadn't seen the Thestrals before his fifth year (when he had already seen his parents die, he didn't need to wait to see Cedric die)
 
GcL
4:06 PM
@Yuuki All magic is death magic prior to my cup of coffee in the morning.
@DavidCoffron Does it count for babies?
 
@GcL Maybe not, but it is just one more thing that makes the books seem inconsistent even if they aren't technically
Another thing is why sometimes characters use silent and wandless magic and other times they don't (even when they are trying to be stealthy or have lost their wand)
(for the same spells mind you, so it's not like they need them for those spells in particular)
 
GcL
Maybe it' like parameters... you don't need to look them up for crap you use all the time, but god forbid you need to decompress a tarball in some weird way.
 
@GcL But see how each time I bring them up, you have to provide excuses. In my opinion, a well written story doesn't present these weird inconsistencies without an explanation (obviously adhering to show not tell for that explanation, but still)
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron I can't think of one story I like that doesn't have unexplained stuff.
Heck, I can't even find technical documentation that's utterly complete.
 
@GcL Right, but the unexplained stuff isn't glaring and required for the plot
 
4:13 PM
@DavidCoffron It's metamagic, they ran out of sorcery points or don't have a high enough spell slot.
 
Just makes it feel forced
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron Any dues ex machina falls into that category for me.... so like... all the sci-fi and fantasy have that somewhere in their story lines.
 
I don't see how call-and-response is grounds for a story being bad.
 
When Dumbledore sends the students to their dorms after Quarrel says there is a troll in the dungeons (FYI Slytherin house is in the dungeons)
 
Especially when that relies heavily on the knowledge of the caller.
@DavidCoffron I mean, it's not the first time Dumbledore's disfavored the Slytherins to a frankly ridiculous degree.
Well, I suppose in the timeline of the books, that is the first time.
 
4:16 PM
@Yuuki That's true, but sending them to their possible deaths?
 
@DavidCoffron Look, if you ever had to deal with Draco Malfoy on a daily basis...
 
GcL
@DavidCoffron Seems par for the course. They really got a bad shake in the books.
 
Plus, I imagine the dungeons aren't just one room.
 
@Yuuki Considering that Slytherin had won the House Cup on an almost annual basis before Harry & co started, his previous pet was a Slytherin
 
Oh and the utter ridiculousness of the Quidditch rules. There's only so much disbelief I can suspend.
 
4:23 PM
@Yuuki On the other hand though, the Slytherins are basically just the Wizard world's equivalent to the Nazi youth, so why the house still exists is...... Hmm.
 
@Xirema Because europe and royal bloodlines, thus extending the bloodlines to magic makes sense
 
Griffindor: The Brave and Stalwart
Ravenclaw: The Clever and Studious
Hufflepuff: Look, we just want to get high, okay?
Slytherin: Why do people hate Voldemort so much? I think we should be giving his ideas more consideration, just because he has 'out there' ideas doesn't mean he should be censored, we should be having an open debate about Voldemort's ideas, but you guys won't let us have a debate! You're censoring us and silencing our free speech, let us just just talk about the finer points of Voldemort's ideology in a civil and polite manner, and show how some of his ideas might have bee
 
Griffindor: We don't care where you come from as long as you're brave.
Ravenclaw: The only true measure of a person is wit.
Hufflepuff: I love everyone.
Slytherin: Only those with noble lineages tracing back generations are allowed.
 
What even was Voldemort's ideology?
 
Blood purity i guess
and wizards > non-wizards
 
4:28 PM
@Yuuki Anti-muggle racism. You know how the Malfoys were often quoted talking about purebloodedness and stuff? Basically that but taken to its logical extreme.
 
@Xirema "All Slytherins aren't evil" --Rowling presenting some extra canon that isn't apparent in any of her works
 
@Xirema I guess that makes sense given his personal history.
 
it was that wizards should exist as a ruling class over muggles and that pure-blooded wizards are the highest eschelon of wizard
 
Wasn't that Grindelwald?
 
Yes but for different reasons.
 
4:30 PM
Voldy was more pureblood vs others, Grindelwald magical vs muggle
 
Grindelwald wanted to rule over muggles whereas I think Voldemort just wants to eradicate muggles, based on his history.
 
yes. But both were for revealing the existance of the wizarding world and lording it over the muggles. Just for different reasons
 
His mother had a kid with a Muggle that she bewitched and then died because he didn't actually love her. He was then raised in an ambiguously abusive Muggle orphanage.
Safe to say, Tom Riddle did not have good experiences with non-magical folk.
So his anti-Muggle racism is less "wizards are better people and should rule over non-magical people" and more "people should die".
Or at least that's what I suppose.
 
The real witchcraft is how they intend to transmute Fantastic Beasts into a five-film series when it started sucking bad in the second.
 
Side note, the idea that children born from love potions can't feel love is deeply terrifying.
 
4:32 PM
Comparison of wizard heritage to royalty.
Muggle-born: The children of foolish peasants who've gained some power.
Half-Bloods: Bastard children who shouldn't have existed.
Pure-bloods: True royalty, the divine children.
 
I really hope that's more of a comment about the nature of being raised in a household where one parental figure is willing to mind control the other one and not a literal statement on how love potions create congenital mental disorders.
 
Tis a scary thought indeed
 
@Yuuki Considering that's about the only time when love potions are treated with due seriousness, I doubt it.
 
I don't think it's so much that the use of the love potion meant that he was incapable of feeling love, it's more that he was born to a parent that didn't want him, and thus had a really rough relationship in that regard
so in that sense, using love potions can lead to the result, but it's not inherently the love potion that causes it. More circumstance
 
I thought it was outright stated that theres an actual magical side effect of love potions that the children are bad
 
4:46 PM
> J. K. Rowling has said that it is of important symbolic significance that Voldemort, incapable of love himself, was conceived in an act of coercion, rather than genuine love.[14]
 
GcL
Are we all pointedly avoiding a bunch of beer goggles jokes here?
 
Okay so JK said it but not in the books, aka she made it up later
 
like so many other things
 
@GcL How you gonna get drunk on butterbeer? The fats in the butter slow your absorption of the alcohol.
 
4:48 PM
@Yuuki but it tastes SO GOOD
 
GcL
@Yuuki Ughhh... fine... challenge accepted.
 
JKR: "They make their poop disappear"
Everyone: "but they have bathrooms in the school. It's a major point in at least two books"
JKR: "ThEy MaKe ThEiR pOoP DiSaPpEaR!!!"
 
@G.Moylan Which is.......... I hate this word, but it's the poster child of PrObLeMaTiC elements in her books.
 
Because the sins of the parent etc. etc.?
 
oof yeah
 
4:53 PM
Although maybe Dumbledore being gay, but only explicitly so in extra-diegetic material whereas in the book it's basically all subtext and implication might be up there as well.
 
@G.Moylan I mean, if I finished a series a decade ago and people were still asking me about it, I'd probably give out some troll answers to mess with people.
 
Or Rowling's attempt to fix the diversity issue in the books by making Nagini—Voldemort's evil snake—into a Korean woman. O_o
 
"I never said Hermione couldn't be black!"

> Hermione's White face
 
> 👏Our👏Nazis👏Will👏Be👏Multicultural!👏
 
@Xirema Side note, they mention in the movie that she'll eventually be trapped as a snake (although that could be typical carnival showmanship) and that's also terrifying.
 
4:55 PM
"The snake has been a korean woman all along. I have known this for many years. Clues? Foreshadowing? Why would I do that?"
 
GcL
@Xirema There were nazis in the books? I totally missed that.
 
@G.Moylan That's just a misunderstanding of how theatre casting works on the part of the public.
 
@GcL Grindelwold/Voldemort/etc. are semiotically Nazis, but not literally.
 
GcL
What do you mean by "semiotically" ?
 
@Xirema I don't think Grindelwold is a blood-purist in the same way that Voldemort is. He's just pro-supremacy non anti-Muggle
 
4:57 PM
In theatre, nobody really cares about appearances when casting characters.
 
@Yuuki well, some people do
You can't exactly cast Aida with a bunch of white folks
 
@G.Moylan I mean you could
 
@DavidCoffron Well so was Hitler in '39
 
IIRC, Aaron Burr was distinctly not black but Leslie Odom Jr. still plays him in Hamilton.
 
@SirCinnamon Fair
 
4:58 PM
Nobody's blowing up about that.
And yeah, Hamilton is a good play whereas The Cursed Child is... not that. But that's just how theatre casting works.
 
@Yuuki the entire point of the show though is to challenge the culturally standard representation. it's a rap musical for crying out loud
 
@GcL Semiotics is the study of symbols, metaphors, idioms, etc.. Stuff like that. think Animal Farm, where each of the animals are meant to be stand-ins for various ideologies, or very specific people associated with those ideologies. They aren't literally those things, but they're semiotically those things.
 
stand-ins
 
I dunno, as someone who used to watch theatre plays on a semi-regular basis, it doesn't bother me that Hermione was played by a black actor.
 
it doesn't bother me either, but it does bother me that JKR was trying to play it off like "oh look I wrote the cahracter this way so she was deliberately racially ambiguous." Lady, you did not
 
5:01 PM
@Xirema Does that mean Dumbledore is semiotically Austria? Helped in the rise of the Hitler (helped in the rise of Grindelwold, the first semiotic Nazi), and then ignroe the rise of Nazism (missed the fact that Voldemort was evil)\
@G.Moylan Right. If you did, you would make it more clear.
 
GcL
@Xirema I don't recognize that as the usual use for that word. I'm looking for some publication where it's used like that for reference. I think I've only seen that term used in linguistics before, and not like that.
 
@DavidCoffron she explicitly references Hermione as white in one of the books. I forget which one, but there's a photo floating around of the text on the page
 
@DavidCoffron I'd argue the right term is "metaphorically" in this context, but yes, you could definitely interpret his character in the story in that way.
 
@G.Moylan I mean, I don't remember Hermione being written with any racial characteristics although I suppose getting the privilege of having access to a time machine when you're 13 does seem pretty upper-class white.
 
> Semiotics (also called semiotic studies) is the study of sign process (semiosis). It includes the study of signs and sign processes, indication, designation, likeness, analogy, allegory, metonymy, metaphor, symbolism, signification, and communication. — Wikipedia
 
5:04 PM
Semiotic literary criticism, also called literary semiotics, is the approach to literary criticism informed by the theory of signs or semiotics. Semiotics, tied closely to the structuralism pioneered by Ferdinand de Saussure, was extremely influential in the development of literary theory out of the formalist approaches of the early twentieth century. == History == The early forms of literary semiotics grew out of formalist approaches to literature, especially Russian formalism, and structuralist linguistics, especially the Prague school. Notable early semiotic authors included Vladimir Propp...
That's more about semiotics in terms of story structure - comparing two stories in pattern to each other but I would say that applies when using an allegory for real life
 
Honestly, it feels like people are attacking JKR for trying to defuse racism in an inelegant manner.
 
looks like book 3
I just think it's dumb that she's pretending like she's all enlightened and "Always intended this stuff" when it's very apparent that it never originally occurred to her
 
@G.Moylan It says "Hermione's white face was sticking out..." Some justify that as an metaphor referencing her emotions
Oh didn't scroll
 
I mean yeah. People criticize a lack of racial diversity which is valid. and instead of saying "yep that's my bad, but I accept anyone who wants to imagine it in any way possible, it's all valid" she went "well uhh actually I never said that, I've been 2 steps ahead this whole time"
 
@Yuuki I mean, there's a lot of confounding factors. JKR has a few problematic aspects of her works w/r/t race, politics, etc., and on its own, it's the kind of thing where it would have inspired a few "hot takes" and then vanished quietly without much thought.
@Xirema But then she started trying to retcon things, or trying to backfill the stuff she screwed up. "Actually, Hermione may not have been white!" "Actually, Dumbledore was DEFINITELY gay, you all just didn't catch the clues!" "Actually, the Sorting Hat is a non-binary gender identity!"
 
5:08 PM
It's so incredibly odd to me that some people were racist, JKR decided to call them out in a really dumb way, and as a result we're more angry at JKR whereas the racists are a forgotten sideshow.
 
@Yuuki That's fair, but a really easy answer for Rowling to give is "I didn't originally imagine Hermione as Black, but I love the idea for this stage adaptation, and I think it could bring a new dimension to the character!". But instead, the answer she gave was "Well, I didn't SAY she was supposed to be white, did I??? Oh ho ho!"
 
@Xirema Well, the Sorting Hat is a... well, hat. I'd be more surprised if it did identify as distinctly male or female.
 
So instead of properly crediting the cast for trying to do something different with the character, she instead tries to make it a retroactive credit on herself for having a diverse set of characters in her novel.
 
@Xirema Ding!
 
@NautArch I also got just got hit with a bunch of question downvotes. Interesting...
 
5:13 PM
Detective Rubik S. Moose is oooon the case loose!
 
@Xirema To be fair, England in that time period was almost 90% white
 
@DavidCoffron in the 90s?
 
@G.Moylan Mhm
 
@Rubiksmoose orly? :( @GcL Was saying there were some edits(?) and whatnot mentioning some concern about us. We're in cahoots to sink the site!
 
How did someone discover my secret plan to cunningly destroy the place I spend a great deal of my time?!
 
5:18 PM
@Rubiksmoose Dangit. I told my bots to only downvote your answers!
 
@GcL how dare you! Puzzle Elk is my cousin and they look nothing like me!
Also @GcL if you happen to have pointers to those discussions I'd be interested in seeing them (assuming I already haven't). I'm always interested in hearing when and how I ruffle feathers so I can try to avoid that in the future if appropriate.
@DavidCoffron XD
 
5:52 PM
@Rubiksmoose conspiracy theory me thinks this is linked to the subjective discussion
Just because I'm sneaky, I was checking to see if when looking at another user you see their downvotes as part of their daily rep. But you don't.
 

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