TRPG General Chat

4:00 PM

@JohnP I went straight monk. Multiclassing is tough. I did a multiclass bard/warlock once and while I really liked the 'lock dip, the delay in my main progression was a real bummer.

@JohnP here is my monk. The goblin race is really what made it work for me.

JohnP

@NautArch Nice! This one is the one I'm playing with. His race/level/equipment change hour to hour.

goodguy5

@Xirema yea, that's the thing I'm trying to define.

NautArch

@JohnP Taking a look. I stepped away from my game with the monk, so this will be where he stops. But ASIs were going to go into WIS/DEX to boost my AC further.

@JohnP Why did you want the rogue dip?

It's delaying a lot of monk features.

goodguy5

sneak punch, obvi

NautArch

@goodguy5 doesn't work like that, unfortunately.

goodguy5

4:06 PM

I didn't say sneak attack punch

NautArch

@goodguy5 oh, my bad. read it like that!

goodguy5

fair interpretation

NautArch

But a monk can sneak pretty well, too. Misses the expertise, tho.

JohnP

@NautArch I was working from this quide that I found

My original was rogue 1/warlock 2/monk 3, then I started playing with races, levels, scaling things back...

'Three levels of rogue = assassin = auto crit on surprise. That seems...verra nass with monk.

Xirema

Probably. XD

goodguy5

4:11 PM

mod! can you move all our math talk to the bar?

♥ tia

NautArch

@JohnP How often do you get surprise? I can probably count on one hand the times that mechanic has come up in the past 5 years.

goodguy5

can @JohnP do it with his blue name?

JohnP

@goodguy5 yah give me one sec.

Xirema

@NautArch Technically, a character should get it if they're Hideing before combat and getting a good stealth check.

goodguy5

thanks, buea

Xirema

4:15 PM

So if you're a class/archetype that relies on that kind of feature to be effective, you'd probably put a lot of effort towards making it work.

....... Is something I unironically say, remembering that my party includes a Rogue who used to be an Assassination Rogue with a -1 bonus to their Stealth rolls. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

JohnP

→ 52 messages moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

@goodguy5 - Done.

goodguy5

thanks

JohnP

@Xirema Yes, the idea was take way of the shadow for all those benefits

GcL

@NautArch Depends on the table and the players. I make it a point to provide players in one group to surprise and be surprised because they like that.

Xirema

Oh, update on that, by the way, for anyone who cares: The Rogue who used to have an 8 in Dexterity, as of level 10, now has a 12 in Dexterity. The player decided playing an anti-munchkin was getting boring, so they're putting stats into the score now.

GcL

4:21 PM

Also, if any player took the Alert feat, that's a pretty good indicator they're at least thinking about the surprise mechanics, so it might be a good idea to include them often enough to satisfy that player.

Xirema

They did, however, change their archetype to Inquisitor Rogue to better make use of their +2 Wisdom modifier.

Ragatokk

4:42 PM

I posted a question "What are all the published objects that require the Use an Object action?" I would appreciate it if some of you guys would go and take a look. It got marked as a duplicate, something I disagree with.

GcL

@Ragatokk So like, make a list for you?

Sdjz

@Ragatokk For ease of finding the question: link

Rubiksmoose

@GcL To be fair, good, finite list questions are allowed to be asked here even if they aren't always well received. If nobody wants to answer them, nobody has to.

Ragatokk

I understand the question was rather broad, I was under the (wrong) assumption that people could answer in parts and aggregate the list.

GcL

@Ragatokk Yeah, it's not really a duplicate, but it's not a question I'd upvote.

Ragatokk

4:45 PM

Yeah, thus I am asking for some support in removing the duplicate tag, thank you for your time.

GcL

@Ragatokk I think it's narrow enough to be answered. It's essentially, "make a list for me". Since the source material is finite, assuming official publications, it's entirely doable.

Rubiksmoose

@Ragatokk Just a note, that is actually something that sometimes happens (especially in list-type questions) but is something that shouldn't happen.

GcL

@Ragatokk That's something you might have better luck with on a forum. dndbeyond.com/forum or reddit.com/r/dnd

Mage in the Barrel

looking for feedback on my race and how i can improve it's lore

homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rknKaOLyB

GcL

@MageintheBarrel Improve in what way?

Sir Cinnamon

4:53 PM

@MageintheBarrel I spy a typo: "Despite their short appearance Black Forest Residents have a base walking speed is of feet."

A_S00

Town guard: "Son, do you have any idea how fast you were going?"

Adventurer: "Honestly, officer, only about feet, maybe feet-and-a-half!"

Guard: (waves divination wand) "You were going *over three times feet!*" (starts to write ticket, then realizes that nobody is literate in fantasyland)

3

Yuuki

It's spelled "solitude".

Unless your atoms are in a crystalline '90s arrangement.

JohnP

camouflage not camoflauge. Solidtude = Solitude. Plant tissue does not necessarily mean lightweight. And if they are made of plant tissue, is druid a favored class? What about natural barkskin?

John Clifford

Yuuki has a solid 'tude.

Descendants*

Also possessive its doesn't have an apostrophe.

because, not becuase.

appearance, not apearance.

Someone_Evil

@JohnP iirc it's for 5e and so favored class isn't a thing (ie. never stated and no explicit benefit)

John Clifford

5:06 PM

I think we might be here a while.

The Oracle

0

Q: Why is this question a duplicate?

What are all the published objects that require the Use an Object action? To me marking this as a duplicate is akin to marking "What are the ingredients and their ratios in coca cola?" with duplicate because there has been another question asking "Whats in coca coloa?" with an answer "Water" Wh...

Xirema

@MageintheBarrel It's an interesting concept, although was it your intent to make the race mechanically identical to Drow?

Someone_Evil

@Xirema There was a long convo yesterday(?) ending in the advice that reflavouring an existing race is a much better idea than writing a new one from scratch

Mage in the Barrel

yes i did

Xirema

@MageintheBarrel Gotcha.

It reminds me a little bit of the concept I had for the "Twilight Drow", a culturally distinct group of Drow that, instead of living in the Underdark, live in so-called "Twilight Forests", densely foliaged woodlands that are technically part of the Feywilds but whose regions are so magically infused that they partially intersect with the material plane, and if you get lost in a magical forest in the material plane, there's a chance you end up in such a forest.

Mage in the Barrel

5:15 PM

wasn't even aware of the wrilight drow when writing this

Xirema

Twilight Forests are named as such because the sun never rises nor sets; it's at a fixed position in the sky just under the horizon.

MikeQ

@Xirema Isn't that how most Feywild connections work?

Xirema

@MageintheBarrel Probably because it's something I made up, which I have half-finished Homebrew documents for. 8)

@MikeQ I mean, yeah.

John Clifford

Man, Strahd would love a place like that.

MikeQ

In official lore, does the Feywild have its own Underdark? Or is the Underdark its own plane?

Xirema

5:23 PM

@MikeQ You might be thinking of the Shadowfell. The Underdark is part of the Material Plane, it's just underground.

But then that doesn't really make the Shadowfell the "Underdark of the Feywilds" in a strict sense, since that would imply the Shadowfell is part of the same plane as the Feywilds, and it's not.

(At least I don't think it is?)

MikeQ

Right, I thought that the Underdark was either a subterranean zone that spans the material plane, or it's an umbrella term for any subterranean biome in the material plane

The Shadowfell is a plane of dead stuff and shadows, and not necessarily underground. And is possibly the same thing as the Nether?

Xirema

At any rate, you have to have a Twilight Forest in the Feywilds, because the whole "sun never sets nor rises" thing is directly from the Feywilds.

> The Feywild, also called the Plane of Faerie, is a land of soft lights and wonder [...]. It is a realm of eternal twilight, with slow lanterns bobbing in the gentle breeze and huge fireflies buzzing through groves and fields. The sky is alight with the faded colors of the setting, or perhaps rising, sun. But, in fact, the sun never truly sets or rises; it remains stationary, dusky and low in the sky. — The Feywilds, PHB, pg. 300

MikeQ

@Xirema That's cool. Is the sky typically obscured from the twilight forest, like most if it is covered by a ceiling of dense roots, briars, and other foliage?

Xirema

@MikeQ Yeah. You can see the sky if you look 90° upwards, but other than that, no such luck.

MikeQ

Hm. I imagine it must be mushroomy too, possibly due to migrant drow bringing crops from the Underdark

DucksGoMooful

5:35 PM

What's the difference between the Shadowfell and the negative plane?

Xirema

@DucksGoMooful The Shadowfell is part of the same cosmological space as the Material Plane, whereas the "Negative Planes" is a superset of the Shadowfell and the Outer Negative Planes (Hell, Acheron, etc.).

[In an extremely Elroy Patashnik voice] Worlds within worlds, baby. 8)

NautArch

@GcL Orthey just want the +5 to initiative :)

DucksGoMooful

I got MToF a while back and the NightWalker or whatever it was called seemed super cool

JohnP

uuurrrgggggg.....3 hours of travel training.

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel My only concern with this is that you are creating a new language in Torran. That's going to be something your DM will have to deal with, but I think the only problematic part is that you don't know an existing langauge. It's more of a handicap than anything.

GcL

5:56 PM

@NautArch That's likely the driving factor to selecting that feet. Also, not being attacked at advantage in the dark. Still, it's likely the player did read the bit about surprise. It's pretty satisfying to get to use all your tools.

NautArch

@GcL Oh definitely! And you're a good DM to provide those opportunities.

John Clifford

Sure you don't want to select feet-and-a-half instead?

Mage in the Barrel

i thought i wrote common in there?

don't most races speak common?

Xirema

Take the Alert Feat, a few levels of Bard, and a level or two of [Revised] Ranger so you can get +13 to your Initiative rolls and advantage on those rolls. XD

NautArch

@Xirema Do you allow multiclassing with UA?

@MageintheBarrel It says you also know Torran instead of Elvish.

Xirema

6:06 PM

@NautArch I generally don't allow UA, but I do allow Revised Ranger and the new Artificer revision (which is one of my players now!) and I permit multiclassing with those.

Mage in the Barrel

Yeah cause they’re not elves

There’s no logical reason why they would know elvish

They can speak common and Torran

NautArch

@Xirema Are you allowing the revised hunter or just beastmaster? I've got a revised hunter it's a little OP.

Hot RPG Questions

6

Q: Does Antimagic Field suppress or prevent petrification from a creature ability?

Inspired by this question and in particular, this answer. I'm focusing on a specific effect; petrification. If by a medusa's gaze or a beholder's eye rays (or other creatures with a similar ability), their abilities give you precisely two chances; the initial save, which if you fail will restrai...

dnd-5e monsters conditions antimagic-field

NautArch

@MageintheBarrel Right - but you swapped with a made-up language rather than something else that's currently available. Ultimately, it's purely a handicap, but that was my only real concern.

Mage in the Barrel

my Dm approved another language I came up with in a previous brew and I only had the name

Not even a script style

What language do humans speak?

NautArch

6:16 PM

@MageintheBarrel Okay, that's fine. You're self handicapping, but that's your call :) I'm gonna beat this dead horse and just reiterate that if your DM is new-ish and if you are new-ish, that sticking to official material is your best bet.

MikeQ

@MageintheBarrel Humans speak Humanish

Yuuki

@MageintheBarrel Body language.

Mage in the Barrel

What language would you suggest?

MikeQ

Python 3. It lets you talk to snakes.

GcL

@MikeQ Snake charmers!

Sir Cinnamon

6:21 PM

@MikeQ Unless theres 4 of them

John Clifford

Parceltongue. It lets you talk to Amazon employees.

Sir Cinnamon

groan

John Clifford

I'll have you know my puns are fully groan.

Yuuki

@JohnClifford Oh hey, could I command them to ring the doorbell when they drop my packages off?

John Clifford

@Yuuki Unfortunately no living mortal has a Parceltongue proficiency high enough for that.

GcL

6:22 PM

@Yuuki That's "sudo ring doorbell."

Xirema

@NautArch Honestly, I'm not restricting the archetype. I do agree that the non-Beastmaster RRanger is a little scary from a DMing perspective, but there's a lot of stuff that still kind of sucks about RRangers otherwise. Most of the really powerful stuff associated with the Hunter archetype come from the archetype itself, which the RRanger doesn't change from the Ranger.

John Clifford

You can, however, take ranks in "throw my stuff wherever you see a box-shaped space" and "knock over things in my garden as you leave".

GcL

@Xirema Let rangers stink for once. They were OP in AD&D

NautArch

@Xirema Yeah, I've debating on dialing it back, but it's honestly not a huge deal. I just up the difficulty :)

GcL

They were all Aragorn. Two swords... arrows shooting out of their ears.... and magic from their rump!

John Clifford

6:24 PM

A sword that shoots other swords.

NautArch

@Xirema The RRanger hunter does increase. Favored enemy is MUCH better. Advantage on initiative and extra damage if attacking first. It's a really really strong subclass damage-wise.

Yuuki

> "How long was I asleep?"
> "About an inch more than when you're awake."

MikeQ

@Xirema There's also the houserule approach to adjust the BM ranger, without needing a new archetype or class

Xirema

@MikeQ What's that approach?

John Clifford

@Yuuki I met a man at an airport once who claimed to be able to tell where people were heading just by looking at them, so I challenged him to prove it. He pointed and said "See that guy going through the turnstile sideways?" I nodded and he said "He's going to Bangkok."

MikeQ

6:26 PM

@Xirema Someone makes a homebrew house rule that adjusts the archetype's mechanics in a favorable and (relatively) balanced way. The details will vary by table.

Ryan

@NautArch Impact's website says the person that prints is on an extended leave right now is part of why I said I'll probably just do the cheapest from Heroforge

NautArch

@Ryan oh dang. Yeah, I forgot about that. I got mine in under the wire. He took longer to get it to me, but later explained the first one he got didn't look good so he had it redone.

As soon as mine is painted, i'll share a pic.

Xirema

@MikeQ Gotcha. It would probably be easier just to import the RRanger Beast Conclave features over to the Ranger, IMO.

Yuuki

@MageintheBarrel Given that Daydream is basically Trance, I'm assuming, I think it'd be best if you phrase it in a similar manner.

Yuuki

6:46 PM

Also for Names, if you're going to have a big header for "Male", you should probably also have a big header for "Female".

> "I never realized how often Jorah's (of A Song of Ice And Fire) plans involve selling and buying people."

goodguy5

if anyone remembers me asking about games where you're a cat.... I was also trying to figure out how to intensify the cat theme.

I just remembered that kigurumi's are a thing.

Rubiksmoose

7:04 PM

[cat themes intensify]

goodguy5

well, I WAS just going to get some of those festival ears

then I realized we could do better

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 Like for the actual players?!

KorvinStarmast

@Xirema That's not what those comments read to me. The comments read "we didn't care if we were toxic when we were founded, because we were intended to be a site for experts." I had that explained to me more than once since I showed up in SE land ... but things have changed.

goodguy5

@Rubiksmoose yes

Rubiksmoose

amazing.

MikeQ

7:11 PM

@Xirema I admit that I haven't personally tested any ranger house-rule patches. But I may, eventually. Maybe.

KorvinStarmast

@DucksGoMooful Suggest you consider going back to RPG.SE meta where in all honesty, one of the founders asks "is site for experts" and "what does that mean." The original SE/SE remit was "experts interacting with experts." That was its premise.

Xirema

@KorvinStarmast TBH, I don't really care what the site used to be. And speaking as someone who used the site for a long time before I actually made an account 3 years ago, I can personally attest that the toxicity got worse. Not that it never existed, just that it definitely got worse than it used to be.

goodguy5

@Rubiksmoose as far as bachelor parties go, everyone paying $45 for cat pajamas and then however much we want and then I DM a few games. Seems goodman

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 I'll just assume my invite is in the mail

;)

goodguy5

@Rubiksmoose Do you know the groomtobe? if so, then yes

Xirema

7:14 PM

Also, context is kind of important: some of the other comments were since deleted (mod activity, maybe?) but above and below the comments I screengrabbed, there were some much less polite responses.

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 Oh you mean groomguy5? Yeah he and I are super tight.

goodguy5

XD

KorvinStarmast

@Xirema My feelings are the same as yours. I was surprised at the push back I got from some old timers when I raised the inherent hostility of the SE system. I even had a mod go all mod at me for using the term inherent. I really do read those comments as "we didn't care if we came across as hostile" and I do not doubt that you experienced that first hand. My son did when I pointed him to SO/SE.

His wry observation was SE seemed to be "licenSE to be a jerk on the internet"

@Xirema aah, I was going to go and take a look at that meta, you gotta link?

@DucksGoMooful here is the link I was thinking of

Sir Cinnamon

@KorvinStarmast "My score is higher, therefore i'm a better person than you"

Xirema

22

Q: Why do questions that get closed as duplicates get deleted?

The most recent example I'm aware of is this one (10k rep only), where a user mistakenly interpreted the ^ character as an exponentiation operator instead of correctly identifying it as the XOR operator. However, I've seen this happen a few times in the last few months to various questions of var...

discussion duplicate-questions deleted-questions

KorvinStarmast

7:20 PM

@SirCinnamon One of many versions of chest thumping, (something) measuring ... yeah.

Xirema

I wasn't even trying to pot-stir this time, and I actually think the answer I accepted points out some valid responses, even if he had a weird kneejerk reaction to me in the comments.

The moderator response, conversely, is a weird deference to Authority, and is also the same guy that said he felt it was okay for users to answer posts with comments, so..... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

KorvinStarmast

@Xirema thanks for the link. Interesting Point RS Conley made in my linked rpgse meta

Loosen up about the subjective questions. And if the question is that badly phrased get a discussion going in comments with the author about how to fix it. But let the author fix it. If it spirals out of control deal with it then not before

DucksGoMooful

@Xirema When you first posted that screenshot I went looking for that meta question of yours and ended up reading this one that you've just linked. I was kind of in shock after reading the mod comments on that answer

Xirema

It's such a weird take to basically say "well, we need to delete posts because we can't trust the user base not to bully the poster with excessive downvotes".

But like....

He's not wrong.

@DucksGoMooful Yeah, that one was a trip.

JohnP

@Xirema My experience on SO.

@Xirema I think that stance is wrong Relevant meta

> Comments are second class citizens on the Stack Exchange network, not designed to hold information for all eternity. They may get cleaned up at any time. Generally, truly important information should be incorporated into an answer anyway (either by posting a new answer, if the information answers the question at least partially, or by editing an existing answer, if the information is a minor complement or clarification of that answer)

Hot RPG Questions

7:34 PM

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Q: How does the spell Remove Curse interact with a Sword of Vengeance?

One of my players recently acquired, and become attuned to, a cursed Sword of Vengeance. The descriptive text for this item says: This sword is cursed and possessed by a vengeful spirit. Becoming attuned to it extends the curse to you. And also: You can break the curse in the usual w...

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Xirema

@JohnP Oh yeah, this isn't the first time we've talked about this in chat. He's just straight-up wrong about what the policy is, and I personally feel he's [implicitly] wrong about what the policy should be.

goodguy5

wait a danged minute.

👌🏻 is sometimes used as a white power sign?

MikeQ

@goodguy5 IIRC this was a joke started by a certain something-chan community

Sir Cinnamon

I can't see the character

Xirema

I can't see the unicode, so I guess I'm spared having to look at it.

william porter

7:40 PM

Ok-sign hand

goodguy5

okay sign

Xirema

Oh. So that........ is a really complicated story.

goodguy5

👌 that one?

william porter

yup

Sir Cinnamon

oh that - yeah its one of those.. they want to create that association just to try and spoil it for others

goodguy5

7:41 PM

this is why we can't have nice things

Xirema

The essence of it is that allegedly (and I'll come back to why I'm using that word, but for now I need to move past it) the "Ok Sign is a symbol for White Supremacy" thing originated on 4-chan, as an attempt to troll liberals.

vicky_molokh

@SirCinnamon Other associations being milk, clowns and (wait for it!) rainbow flags. We live in a post-Onion world, eh?

Xirema

Basically, the idea was "lol, Libs are so gullible, they'll believe anything, we'll pretend the OK-sign is a white power symbol and they'll report on it like it's true!"

But here's the kicker: after it started getting reported on, a whole lot of White Power groups and politicians actually started using the OK-sign as a symbol for White Power.

goodguy5

so.... they trolled... themselves?

Xirema

So the 4-chan op to trick liberals into thinking the OK sign was racist.... made the OK-sign racist.

william porter

7:43 PM

They trolled so well, the group they were pretending to be thought they were real

goodguy5

huzzah?

william porter

And then the sun came out, and they got stoned

goodguy5

The internet is the worst, present company exluded.

william porter

I deny that statement :P

the latter part that is

Xirema

And this is where we circle back to my use of the term "allegedly". Because it's not exactly an unknown phenomenon for White Supremacist groups to appropriate innocuous or important symbols as representations of their ideology. Consider the Swastika, originally a peaceful Hindu symbol, that was appropriated by the Nazi's as a symbol of their idea of racial purity.

CTWind

7:44 PM

I forget the exact adage, but sounds like a similar result to "make a community where everyone pretends to be an idiot, and actual idiots will soon be finding a new home there".

goodguy5

@Xirema at least they have the "decency" to rotate it 45 degrees

JohnP

@CTWind If you build it, they will come.

Xirema

And furthermore, it's also relatively common for White Supremacist groups to use things like irony and transgressive humor to "test the waters" for their ideology/iconography. Say something racist, and if people laugh and nod along, you know you're with your fellow nationalists, but if they instead get angry, quickly backpeddle with "I was joking, geez, learn to take a joke!".

So while there's evidence that the Ok-sign thing definitely found its origin with 4-chan, it's extremely unclear that the intent was "just trolling the libs", it may very well have been a sincere attempt to try to create a new White Supremacist "Secret Handshake", with the added benefit that because they're claiming it's "just a joke", anyone who tries to call them out can be replied to with "geez, look how gullible you are, thinking this is a White Power thing!"

Mage in the Barrel

assuming there are no obstructions whats the maximum visionb range for a player

goodguy5

well, "thanks"

Mage in the Barrel

7:49 PM

in 5e

william porter

This conversation reminds me of this SCIFI.SE question

43

A: Smart people send dumb people to a new planet on a space craft that crashes into a body of water

The canonical SF story that deals with a world dominated by the stupid, with the intelligent suffering as effectively their servants, leading to the bulk of the population being sent to another planet to die is "The Marching Morons," by C. M. Kornbluth, probably the author's best known and most i...

GcL

@MageintheBarrel That depends on how high they are up and how clear the weather is.

and lighting.

Xirema

@MageintheBarrel It's usually assumed to be about 5 miles under non-obstructed conditions.

goodguy5

@Xirema by whom?

or are you saying based in reality

Mage in the Barrel

okay then lets say your in an open feild that streches for miles it's solar noon and theres no clouds

GcL

7:50 PM

And that formula isn't declared in any 5e rule book I'm aware of. There is a formula for figuring out how far away a visible horizon is on Earth. I've used that in my naval based campaign.

Mark Wells

ringbell.co.uk/info/hdist.htm

Xirema

@goodguy5 By me. =P

(I've seen the 5mi reference in multiple places, but I don't remember if I saw it in the sourcebooks or not)

JohnP

@MageintheBarrel depends on what you are looking for. A human can see a candle up to 30 miles away.

And 5 miles is past the horizon on Earth, but again, ymmv.

GcL

1 Nautical Mile = 1.15 miles

```
Visibility in Nautical Miles = 1.17 * sqrt( height in feet )
Visibility in Miles = 1.34 * sqrt( height in feet )
```
| Height | Visibility NM | Visibility M |
|--------|---------------|--------------|
| 5 | 2.6 | 3.0 |
| 10 | 4.5 | 5.2 |
| 30 | 6.4 | 7.4 |
| 45 | 7.8 | 9.0 |
| 60 | 9.1 | 10.5 |
| 100 | 11.7 | 13.5 |

MikeQ

Unless your PCs have circumnavigated Faerun, they can't prove that their world is round. Therefore everything on the plane should be visible somewhere on the horizon.

Mage in the Barrel

7:52 PM

oh and your at sea level so no vantage point

Mark Wells

@MageintheBarrel Then your altitude is your height

like, of your eyes above the ground

Xirema

I do know that 5e rules presume no less than a minimum of 1 mile of visiblity under unobstructed conditions, because if it didn't, the Totem Warrior Barbarian's Aspect of the Eagle feature would be incorrectly written.

Sir Cinnamon

@Xirema and that's NEVER happened before ;)

Mark Wells

@Xirema It is incorrectly written. As I've pointed out, it says you gain the eyesight of an eagle without specifying which eagle.

Xirema

@SirCinnamon Harumph.

Mage in the Barrel

7:56 PM

there's a lot of vision features and racials with a specified range

i was just curious how far you can actually see

Rubiksmoose

@MarkWells Well obviously they are talking about the reference eagle, Barry, that is kept in a vault in France for just this reason.

MikeQ

A half elf can only see out of one eye, because they have half the normal vision of an elf

So your next question should be: How far can a "Ling" see?

Sir Cinnamon

@MikeQ 10/10 vision

@MikeQ I swear we had this exact conversation at my game last week

Xirema

@MikeQ Well, correction, they have half the normal vision of an elf, and half the normal vision of a human. So in reality, they should be adding half their proficiency bonus to their Perception Checks.

Which is why, incidentally, a WereEagle should be using the half-Advantage roll I devised when making Perception Checks. XD

MikeQ

Half-elves aren't half humans, they're an elf but 50% diluted with an aqueous solution

They're terrible spellcasters due to the low concentration

Xirema

8:01 PM

@MikeQ Speaking as a Homeopath, I now understand that if I dilute an elf down to 0.000167%, I'll have some kind of super elf.

MikeQ

Liquefying an elf and putting them into a diffuser counts as an evil act, even if it is better for your sinuses

Xirema

> Made by Elves, for Elves, of Elves.

GcL

@Rubiksmoose That's that perfectly spherical 1kg eagle that sees at the speed of light if it's cleaning the floor with a vacuum, correct?

Rubiksmoose

@GcL That's the one!

GcL

@Xirema That's not enough of a dilution. Those nutters do serial dilutions and frequently end up with dilution factors on the order of 10^18 or higher.

MikeQ

8:04 PM

Who would win: a spherical 1kg eagle in a vacuum, or a frictionless spherical cow?

Sir Cinnamon

is the cow weightless

GcL

@MikeQ Ohh... those forces just pass through each other and don't interact. Something about one being on different strings?

@SirCinnamon No... it's just covered in KY

MikeQ

@SirCinnamon Yes, because its mass is not provided in its stat block, thus it is massless

Sir Cinnamon

@MikeQ Aha! The HP is not provided in the statblock and therefore they have none. They are both dead

MikeQ

Hm. So if we can't measure who would win, can we at least measure who would lose less?

GcL

8:08 PM

@MikeQ Is that the one where if you measure the winner, then it changes the rules? So you can't know the rules and the winner at the same time?

bah

MikeQ

Don't bring Shroedinger's Cat into this, or else I'll counter with Russell's Teapot.

GcL

A cat's teapot you say? What would they nip out of that?

Sir Cinnamon

@Xirema Roll 3 take the middle?

MikeQ

8:25 PM

> Cosmic Teapot: Major artifact. If a hidden creature moves or starts its turn within observable distance of the Cosmic Teapot, they must make a DC 15 Charisma saving throw or become unfalsifiable. Until the creature proves their own existence, they are incapacitated.

GcL

@MikeQ Doesn't that show up in proposals that are launching to Mars now and again?

@MikeQ I feel like appealing to the invisible pink unicorn might work in that situation.

Xirema

@SirCinnamon No, although you're close: half Advantage is roll 2 red dice and 1 black, take the higher of the lower red and black.

/roll 3d20

...

Sir Cinnamon

3d20

Dice Service

19

20

19

Xirema

There we go.

Sir Cinnamon

8:29 PM

whoa

Xirema

Oh wow.

Sir Cinnamon

good roll

MikeQ

That passes the save DC. You maintain your existence. For now.

Xirema

Well, assuming the first two dice are red and the last is black, the lower of the first two is 19, and the higher of 19 and 19 is... 19..... this is a bad set of rolls to use. XD

@MikeQ The Instrumentality Project has been staved off for another day.

3d20

Dice Service

6

13

7

Mark Wells

8:31 PM

@GcL Summon invisible pink unicorn. 3rd level Conjuration spell. A unicorn appears. It is both pink and invisible. Each creature who can see the area where the unicorn was summoned must make a Wisdom saving throw. On failure, they begin arguing about how the unicorn can be both pink and invisible. Each creature may repeat the save at the start of its turn to decide this is a stupid argument and drop the subject. As long as at least two creatures are arguing, they are incapacitated.

Xirema

Okay, there we go. Lower of 6 and 13 is 6, higher of 6 and 7 is 7, so result is 7.

NautArch

14

Q: How far can you see? (targets, lip reading etc)

I have looked in the player handbook and it does not seem very clear on character vision. In Bright light how far can characters see? For example if I have a player with the feat sharpshooter and have a long bow I can shoot 600'. Is there anywhere that talks about how far you can see in bright...

dnd-5e vision-and-light

GcL

@MarkWells Sounds like Tascha's Hideous Debate

NautArch

@MarkWells I cast know it all and see invisibility

Mark Wells

@GcL Three Doors of Hadar. 5th level Conjuration spell. Three doors appear in space. Behind one of them is a NEW CAR. The target of the spell is compelled to point at one of the doors and may take no other actions until they do so. Another of the doors then flies open, revealing a portal to the Abyss. The target takes 3d6 psychic damage per turn until they decide whether to open the door they previously chose, or the remaining unopened door.

GcL

8:40 PM

@MarkWells Needs more goats.

MikeQ

@MarkWells I thought this was the spell that lets you summon 1d2 goats. Or 1d3-2 (minimum 1), depending how you interpret it.

Mark Wells

@GcL No, both of the other doors are portals to the Abyss.

GcL

What happened to the goats? Are they okay?

I'd let my horse pick a door. Then I'd pick the door with the brand new cart.

NautArch

@GcL It...unclear<munch munch>...but...I...<munch mumch>...think they're delicious. I mean fine. Fine.

Xirema

@MarkWells Honestly, I'm definitely going to Monty Hall my players at some point.

Just for the arguments that will ensue.

Pro DMing tip: the players won't rally against you if they're fighting amongst each other. 8)

JohnP

8:46 PM

@Xirema The math is heavily in favor of retaining your original choice IIRC

Xirema

@JohnP Other way around, it's in favor of switching, by a 1/3-2/3 difference.

MikeQ

And so it begins

Mark Wells

aaaaand 3d6 psychic damage for everyone

Xirema

XD

The solution is really easy to illustrate if you use 100 doors instead of 3 though.

Imagine you're told to open one door, you pick #37, and then they open all of #'s 1 through 100, except for #37 and #83. Do you still feel you should stay on your current door?

MikeQ

@Xirema Depends on how many doors have trolleys behind them

JohnP

8:50 PM

@Xirema Ah, thanks. I always get it reversed, which is why I'll end up with a goat for @NautArch to munch.

MikeQ

But what if my fellow prisoner also chooses the goat?

JohnP

@MarkWells That would be me if you pose the old saw "one always lies and one always tells the truth". I never really gr0k the logic behind that.

V2Blast

https://kotaku.com/the-ranger-class-is-getting-some-changes-in-d-d-and-ba-1835659585
"Mike Mearls: One of the things that’s been nice is that [Baldur’s Gate 3 developer Larian and D&D steward Wizards of the Coast] have a very similar design culture. So there was one instance where, as we look at our character classes, we look at feedback we get in the tabletop space. There was one class we were working on at that got a lot of negative feedback, so I shot an email over to Nick [Pechenin, systems designer] about “Hey, we’re looking at making some changes, potentially playtesting some new mate…

NautArch

@MikeQ It's too late. I ate it.

<burp>

MikeQ

@V2Blast Will space hamster finally be an option for a Ranger's beast companion?

Xirema

8:58 PM

A few minutes later, the goat from behind door C drives away in the car.

NautArch

muahahaahahahahahaahah

V2Blast

@MikeQ excuse me, Boo is a miniature giant space hamster

MikeQ

@V2Blast Giant Space Hamster is the next warlock patron

CTWind

Curious what the end result of ranger changes will be, I know little bits have been teased and the actual changes to what beastmaster pets 'passively' do are already in. I liked the idea of "treat your favored enemy as if they're affected by your hunter's mark"- frees up resources when dealing with your preferred quarry, but doesn't necessarily make you more powerful against them since non-favored creatures can just be hunter's marked instead.

Xirema

@CTWind Do you know where these have been suggested? I'm curious to see what their current proposed changes to the Ranger class are.

RRanger was almost 4 years ago at this point.

CTWind

9:02 PM

I remember some interview where they literally cut Crawford off due to time as he was about to spill some ranger revision beans, but I'm unsure if he's spilled much past that. Official errata has the beastmaster pet 'default action' changes in it (I think it's mostly that they Dodge if not prompted?).

Xirema

@CTWind Gotcha.

CTWind

The hunter's mark one is just one I saw on reddit, not anything official.

KorvinStarmast

@CTWind I'd love that if they put it into place.

V2Blast

@Xirema Mearls was tinkering with them on his Happy Fun Hour stream a while back: thinkdm.org/hfh/revised-ranger-2018

NautArch

@CTWind Is that on top of the other favored enemy damage bonuses or instead of?

KorvinStarmast

9:07 PM

That was removed from the PHB ....

CTWind

"Treat your favored enemy as hunter's marked" seems like a nice balance between the realms of "You're OP against your favored enemy and weak against everything else" and "Favored enemy doesn't do anything in combat".

JohnP

Ok, edited my bow concept.

CTWind

@NautArch Unsure. I think instead of/it was meant to come into play at the lower level part of favored enemy, rather than being a lv 20 capstone?

Probably was meant for a new feature to then replace the level 20 one.

V2Blast

@NautArch The future ranger rework process is totally separate from the revised ranger UA, which they've basically scrapped now

NautArch

@CTWind oh whoops. I was mistaking the colossus slayer bit. And the RRanger Hunter getting an extra d8 if attacking prior to enemy in first round.

Xirema

9:12 PM

@V2Blast That's.... interesting, but already way too complicated. Even Warlocks have fewer moving parts than that. XD

V2Blast

Yeah, I don't know what their current plan is for what's being tested out in BG3

CTWind

Based on their recent ranger subclasses plus that article, their conclusions seem to be: A) Trivializing exploration (which is underused compared to our expectations) means that it just gets skipped, which means the feature that lets you do that feels unexciting. B) Giving extra prepared spells is good and adds some extra flavor. C) Giving alternative bonus action uses/bonuses to damage beyond hunter's mark being the default is nice and can help differentiate the subclasses.

so I guess I'd expect favored terrain to get some reworking and some features that more reliably eat up bonus actions on hunter & beast master.

Plus maybe a prepared spells list.

Haven't seem 'em talk much about favored enemy, so dunno what to expect from that yet.

Mark Wells

I'll be interested to see if there is a good solution to "you guessed wrong, your Favored Enemy is never going to come up in this campaign"

CTWind

@MarkWells That's why I kind of like the "favored enemy = auto hunter's mark" idea. It would leave favored enemy as a ribbon/flavor feature that doesn't eat up much class budget, because having to manually hunter's mark isn't that big of a cost in and of itself. So it'd still not feel great to 'misguess', but it's not a big punishment for missing either. And it leaves room for a more general class feature alongside it.

NautArch

@MarkWells I think that's more the responsibility of the DM. It'd also be a bit of a bummer to play a paladin and never fight fiends/undead.

Mark Wells

9:26 PM

I'm toying with the idea of assigning a favored enemy as a downtime activity

you know you're going to be fighting fey, so you go to the library and read every book they have on fey

NautArch

@MarkWells as in you can change them?

CTWind

I was thinking about that. I kind of like it, and I wish more stuff encouraged downtime in the core rules, but also get that not every campaign can fit it in.

Mark Wells

yeah

NautArch

@MarkWells That's pretty interesting. Especially since the mechanics aren't immense, it gives some opportunity for the ranger to be more general. Like a Long Rest change? Or longer(or shorter?)

Xirema

They should change Ranger to a Wisdom-based Warlock, CMV.

(Mechanically, not in terms of lore)

Mark Wells

9:30 PM

@NautArch Probably longer. You don't want everyone to go to a dungeon, spend ten minutes scouting it to figure out what's in there, and then go take a long rest so the ranger can change their favored enemy.

CTWind

I also wonder if beastmasters having an extra cost of 'Paying attention to and micromanaging your pet in combat takes your concentration' would make any sense. Fragility issues aside, they live in a weird spot of being actually quite powerful if you remove the action cost to make your pet attack, but feeling wonky to manage with that cost in place. I wonder if lowering the action economy cost to command the pet, but blocking concentration spells would balance out.

NautArch

@MarkWells Although is it really that big of a deal to be able to track the monsters inside better? Or to be able to find food easier?

Mark Wells

If it's no big deal because Favored Enemy doesn't really do anything, then why have it?

(I mean, maybe we don't need it. Ranger has always been a slightly shaky concept.)

NautArch

Ah, I knew revised did something different. Favored enemies also get +2 added to their damage rolls.

Xirema

@MarkWells I really like Mearls' retooling of Favored Enemy as an ad-hoc combat feature. Basically a Bonus Action where you designate, for combat, something as your Favored Enemy.

CTWind

9:35 PM

@MarkWells Yeah, I'm pretty sure if you asked a bunch of people what a ranger is/does, you'd get mostly different answers (...some of which sound like other classes with specific skill proficiencies).

NautArch

But yeah, favored enemy isn't that interesting overall. Unless you focus more on survival needs. Tracking/food/travel speed, etc.

Xirema

You then gain bonuses based on that designation.

Again; the rest of his 2018 revision adds too many customizable parts to the class that interact in unintuitive ways, but that part specifically seems worthwhile.

Mark Wells

@Xirema That seems a little too flexible. My favored enemy is whatever I'm fighting right now?

CTWind

I personally believe that about 1/4 of people who want to play a ranger would be happy with an outlander fighter that has survival and nature proficiencies if it weren't for the class name.

Xirema

@MarkWells Think Hunter's Mark, but as a Class Feature instead of a spell.

BESW

9:38 PM

In 13th Age, favored enemy increases your crit range rather than your accuracy, which makes it much less "this is a thing you've really gotta trigger as often as possible."

And its Adventurer feat is the ability to change your favored enemy choice during long rests.

@Xirema This is how 4e did it, with a little twist.

CTWind

I could buy a description along the lines of "You take your time during a long rest to put yourself in the mindset of your prey" kind of thing.

BESW

"If none of your allies are nearer to your target than you are, you receive a +1 bonus to ranged attack rolls against that target."
and
"A ranger with the Hunter's Quarry class feature can, once per turn as a minor action, designate the nearest visible enemy as his or her quarry. This designation lasts until the encounter ends, the quarry is defeated, or the ranger designates a different target. Once per round, the ranger deals 1d6 per tier damage when hitting his or her quarry with an attack."

@CTWind Personally, I'd want to lean into that sort of idea hard and have "favored enemy" define your mindset and skill bonuses regardless of what you're actually targeting.

Mark Wells

@CTWind I'm also thinking about "if you've traveled over some type of terrain every day for the last X days, you may choose it as your favored terrain". so instead of being specialized, their shtick is that they can adapt to anything, given time.

BESW

That is, if you've spent your life learning how to hunt a particular prey, you've got skills that are defined by that prey but are still applicable to whatever you're hunting at the moment.

CTWind

@BESW That could be neat. Would let you have a preferred mindset even if you're not hunting a specific quarry, because you like the perks it gives you. Would mitigate the issue of "Well, wasn't expecting to be hunting that"- you still have general perks from your choice.

BESW

9:43 PM

Exactly.

Yuuki

Replace favored terrain/enemy with new class feature: "You don't even know her."

CTWind

It's a large chunk of space, which might be an issue depending on how complex each creature type is. But maybe it's OK if it turned into a ranger version of Eldritch Invocations.

MikeQ

Oh are we playing another round of the "What if I had designed the Ranger class" game?

BESW

In a D&D-like setting, I'd probably have it work something like 13th Age backgrounds: You have Stalked Yetis across the Great Mountains +2 and that lets you add +2 to any skill check if you tell a short flashback about stalking the yetis which justifies getting the bonus to what you're doing now.

Mark Wells

@MikeQ better than the Monty Hall game

Yuuki

9:46 PM

> Hunter - ? I don't even know her.

BESW

(This also gives room for additional favored enemy background slots as you level up. Maybe by level 10 you've fought a lot of displacer beasts and so you take Displacer beast master trapper +3 and now you get a bonus to trapping rolls and seeing through illusions.)

@MikeQ I mean, I'm mostly playing "how many things can we improve by replacing a D&D mechanic with 13th Age's backgrounds?"

Yuuki

And I'm playing the game I always play, "let's make horrible jokes".

Ugh, I had to stay a little later at work and now it's rush hour and my commute time will pretty much double.

So now I have to choose: start my commute and spend a lot of time in the car or stay here.

Rush hour's going to take forever though...

MikeQ

Probably a lot. TBH I don't think that favored enemy should translate to an automatic bonus to attack/damage rolls, because:
1. Like previous editions, the system is still ambiguous about how, if, and when the ranger knows that a creature is one of its favored enemies, and
2. If the idea that the hunter has studyied certain creatures, then a more thematic implementation would give the ranger some insight into the creature's strengths and weaknesses

Xirema

Furious Scribbling for Homebrew Ideas...

MikeQ

e.g. that "aha" moment where miss monster hunter expert says "I recognize that monster! They are weak to such-and-such", and then they and their allies can leverage that information against the monster

BESW

9:57 PM

@MikeQ I broadly agree, but counterpoint: attack and damage are the primary vectors for agency in D&D-like games.

MikeQ

@BESW Sure, but if it's per monster, then a flat-bonus to damage is generally not going to change the ranger's tactics in an interesting way

Unless they're in a combat versus multiple opponents, one of which is distinctly a favored enemy, and another which is distinctly not. But that's just a matter of optimizing damage.

Yuuki

It's more of a chargen game than anything you interact with during play.

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