TRPG General Chat

12:17 AM

Thanks for the comments. After last session when the player summoned flying creatures specifically because that'd be useful there I was wondering if I was allowing summoning to be too powerful (as summoning 8 creatures is amazing as is), but it's not like it's actually causing problems I suppose.

The main problem is actually our pace of play. Our combats take forever in part because our players control a bunch of creatures.

trogdor

Ah that does sound like an issue

BESW

I've retired more than one D&D character because too many minions slowed everything down to a crawl.

Shalvenay

@BESW MinionOverflowException

BESW

I assume that 5e didn't learn from 4e on this one, either.

Miniman

@PeterCooperJr. I mean, there are definitely discussions to be had about this. I let my players know pretty early that whatever they could do with 8 pixies, I could do so much worse.

A_S00

12:20 AM

Aren't pretty much all minion spells in 5e concentration?

Peter Cooper Jr.

Our combats also take forever in part because we're still feeling relatively new and understanding what the options are for everything.

Miniman

So I'd start by saying "hey, 8 small creatures really slows things down - do you mind going for fewer, more powerful creatures?"

Peter Cooper Jr.

We're really enjoying the dynamic of lots of creatures, and it's really working well with the character of the druid.

Miniman

So if you're enjoying it, why change it?

Peter Cooper Jr.

Not really looking to change much, I suppose. I guess we're just hoping to figure out how to speed things up, as not all the players are quite enjoying the combat aspects

Miniman

12:25 AM

One thing that worked well for us is making all the creatures the same, and having them take their turns all at once.

Peter Cooper Jr.

Oh, we do that, and it certainly helps

And probably not as nearly as much of an issue as the other causes of being slow.

Miniman

Plus it means someone gets to experience rolling 32 attacks simultaneously XD

Peter Cooper Jr.

Yeah, she had to borrow some dice to roll 8 d20s as once, which was fun in and of itself

Peter Cooper Jr.

12:38 AM

Actually, it never even occurred to us that it could in theory create eight different creatures.

nitsua60

1:49 AM

@BESW this, all day =)

BESW

@nitsua60 When I figured out this principle, my life changed.

trogdor

I can definitely see that angle too

Just the little 4e stuff I ran a bit ago was more tracking then I ever asked for

And that was mostly stuff I made up myself

Shalvenay

2:14 AM

@nitsua60 -- check your Discord PMs :)

nitsua60

kk

Shalvenay

I think we know which sheepy is you ;)

nitsua60

OMG that poor/awesome sheep!

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 I think this is a good explanation of why Apocalype's "ask questions and use the answers" is so helpful. You're just mining your players for creativity.

Ben

Miniman

2:28 AM

But if one guard says that one of them speaks the truth, and the other guard says that the other one always lies, it can't be true.

trogdor

Lol

The way I see it the liar technically said the other guard lies

Ben

Yeah, if the liar said they tell the truth (one speaks nothing but truth), they'd be referring to themself; but if they said one of them lies, they'd be referring to the other

It only fails if fingers are being pointed

Joel Harmon

An important point is whether each of them is forced to tell a lie or the truth, rather than say anything they want to get you to believe the right/wrong thing.

BESW

I like the version where you ask if they're friends.

Joel Harmon

@BESW I don't think I've heard that one before, but suddenly I'm trying to work it out.

trogdor

2:41 AM

@BESW because in order to sit there all the time with each other they kinda have to be?

Joel Harmon

@trogdor Do you have coworkers? :P

trogdor

Yes

BESW

@JoelHarmon As I recall, they both said "yes" and then one of them said "hey!"

trogdor

@BESW oh even better yeah

Joel Harmon

Nice.

@trogdor I meant that partly rhetorically and partly humorously. It's possible they have any number of social relationships, but are both there because it's their job. I try to be friendly with all of my coworkers to foster a good environment, but that doesn't mean I hang out with my coworkers regularly.

trogdor

2:47 AM

@JoelHarmon fair way of putting it

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon "'friendly' not 'friends'"?

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 Yes. Note the qualifier of "all" in there. There are several people at work that I'm pretty sure I met when they came on, and have said maybe ten sentences to since then. If I bump into them in a hallway or some such, then I'll politely say hi or make casual conversation. It's unlikely I'll invite them to my house, or to hang out with my old roommates or something.

@nitsua60 Thinking about it, I more or less translate the "Be Nice" policy to that sphere of life.

trogdor

@JoelHarmon also, yeah that's fair, but I also got your point right when you asked

Like,... There are some co-workers here I would not be likely to be friends with

Joel Harmon

3:02 AM

@trogdor But that doesn't (or rather shouldn't) prevent you from being friendly and polite to them anyway.

trogdor

Doesn't mean I can't be civil, or try my best to be nice, but does mean I won't be making effort to hang out after hours

@JoelHarmon yes

But the distinction, as @nitsua60 put it "friendly not friends"

And also in just a couple of cases,.. a small amount of disdain and polite ignorance

Joel Harmon

Hmm. Seems I misread his line as questioning my word choice in the previous statement. On review, I've revised that to thinking he meant to confirm it, succinctly.

trogdor

Mm

And in those cases I only go that far because they act in a rude fashion rather often, casually, and after I have tried politely correcting them on that specific behavior

For my part I am simply done wasting energy on them

The majority of my co-workers are at least tolerable though

Some can even be pleasant

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon Orite! Yes, I was agreeing, and tossing out there the phrase I use to describe that sort of relationship in my own life. Sorry for the confusion!

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 Certainly not a problem (other than reading comprehension) on my end.

trogdor

3:14 AM

@nitsua60 I did figure you meant it that way, I don't seem to recall you butting in to simply make a correction like that

nitsua60

You're not married to me =|

trogdor

A suggestion seemed more plausible

@nitsua60 no thankfully

I don't think that would work too well for either of us :P

nitsua60

=)

On a different note:

Went to see the Christopher Robin movie tonight with wife and daughters. That thing needs to come with a sternly-worded warning. We were each holding a child on our lap with tears streaming by the time the title sequence started.

user15026

@nitsua60 ....I was going to go see it but now I am questioning that

nitsua60

It's really good. Part of this is that I'm particularly touched by Pooh--I've read them in their entirety, one-on-one, to each of the kids.

Gave a talk in our school's chapel about Galleon's Lap.

Built a garden above that chapel with Pooh quotes lining the paths.

BESW

3:21 AM

@nitsua60 Bob Chipman said, "Your kids are gonna love it. Just tell them the theater gets really dusty at the adult eye level."

nitsua60

@Ash Anyway, it's the typical "kid's grown up, forgot how to be a kid, isn't relating to their own kid, we've got to help them rediscover the magic of childhood" thing.

@BESW Nice.

trogdor

Glad I don't have any kids then I guess

I did like Whinny the Pooh but not enough to want to watch that familiar narrative

nitsua60

@trogdor Brad Garrett was a nice choice for Eeyore--came close to stealing the show.

trogdor

Lol

At the very least that is some amusing trivia

Ben

3:51 AM

So... I have a group of semi-noobs that I want to run a one-off game for. Am thinking 5e, make it a bit of a puzzle dungeon... keep it simple. But I don't want them to be level 1... there's not much diversity in what a character can do. But obviously they're not experienced enough to be anything like level5.

trogdor

Mind you that I haven't actually gotten to level 3 yet, but it seems like a good compromise

It adds a lot I'm looking forward to trying,... But I don't know if maybe it's too much?

For people new to tabletop RPGing or at least new to D&D or 5e itself

Ben

I was thinking level 3.

trogdor

3 seems good

Ben

They've played before, they understand the concept of the game, but maybe not necessarily the rules as they are.

trogdor

Oooh ok

Ben

3:56 AM

Like, they know to roll the dice when doing stuff, the DM runs the game, their characters have stats to use...

trogdor

I'm behind them then, and I'm looking forward to level 3 so

I think they should probably be good for that level

Ben

4:20 AM

Just reviewed the classes... for the most part that's when they all usually get another class feature

trogdor

Yeah for paladin it looks like a pretty big level at least

Only class I have played so far

Ben

Well, the Fighter and Barb get a similar progression. Martial Archetype and Primal Path Respectively. Same sort of thing

The Caster classes all get a specialist ability

trogdor

4:55 AM

But it sounds like everyone gets at least one interesting thing that level beyond what they already had

Which is, I assume, the point

kviiri

6:26 AM

We in our group joke that L3 is when the game starts for real.

Carcer

@kviiri certainly in 3e/PF my general rule was that 3rd level was the new 1st level

for a one-off game I'd say 3rd level is a good compromise, if it was the start of a longer campaign then starting from 1st isn't so bad, so long as you get them through that initial couple of levels at the same kind of rate as they are mastering the game basics

I'd never be so cruel as to make a group of experienced players start characters at 1st level

5

BESW

7:29 AM

So, if D&D starts at level 3 and peaks at level 6...

...if I had any interest in playing D&D again ever I might be tempted to make a 3e6 hack.

kviiri

8:10 AM

I'm on my third day at a new job and already want to throw an office one-shot with a lightweight 4e hack

BESW

8:20 AM

Why not InSpectres?

It's the office comedy RPG.

kviiri

9:57 AM

I'm just feeling hack 'n' slashy :>

Carcer

you should get that looked at

The Masked Rebel

10:44 AM

@Miniman o/

HELLO EVERYONE

Joel Harmon

11:20 AM

@Ben Not just a class feature; level 3 is when most classes pick an Archetype, which is a big deal.

@kviiri Someone (I want to blame nitsua here) on the site had a breakdown of expected number of encounters to get each level, and it worked out to basically being level 1 for a session, then 2 for a session, then about five sessions for each other level (with a peak around level 10 or so, for some reason).

Carcer

what's the comment shortlink to the tour again?

Is it just [tour]?

Joel Harmon

yep

[edit] is the other one I use commonly

Secespitus

[help] is also nice and [chat] can be useful, too.

Joel Harmon

The full list is here , where you may need to expand that section.

Carcer

thanks

NautArch

2:02 PM

howdy howdy

Sir Cinnamon

Morning!

Szega

howdy at you too

NautArch

this question seems like he needs to talk to his players about game expectations.

@Carcer We generally start at 1st level with new campaigns and are experienced. I kind of like it.

Carcer

@NautArch that was my takeway from it too NautArch

NautArch

@Carcer And honestly, that storyline seems like a lot of fun. Just maybe not for that particular table.

Especially as he said he's not taking away stuff, just making them determine whether or not a fight actually makes sense.

Carcer

2:11 PM

@NautArch I feel like 9 times out of 10 when an experienced player creates a character, they already know which subclass they're going to pick etc. I just don't see the point of playing through the first couple of wimpy levels. But I concede that others may enjoy it anyway

@NautArch Agreed. The only thing I think he did wrong was not making sure he and the players were on the same page

NautArch

@Carcer And honestly, in retrospect I'm doubting my own statement :) I know which subclass, but it's the grind and danger is what makes it kinda fun. But it also makes it a potential dead character that had effort put into design and backstory whose story ends because of random 1st level squishiness.

Carcer

that was always my issue with level 1 in 3.X, at least

it's just too easy to die to the whims of a single roll because you've got sod all HP

NautArch

I did just recently start up a campaign with some friends, but none of them are super experienced (one is a new DM and hasn't played a PC for 5e, one has played only a couple games of 5e and not much else, and the last is new to 5e.) So I started at Level 1. There was quite a bit of RP in the first session, so I made sure they had enough XP to level for the next session.

Carcer

one of the few mechanical changes 4e introduced which I actually liked was that you get your con score as base hit points and then add on more for your levels

gives you a sane HP buffer at 1st level

NautArch

@Carcer I'm still considering diving into 13th Age. I think my main table would really like it. It's nearly 100% combat driven players.

Carcer

2:16 PM

at least I remember that being something 4e did? It's possibly I am misattributing a house rule I came up with.

NautArch

But the current DM (whom I really don't like as a DM in terms of player management), wants to try starfinder (or whatever that pathfinder in space spinoff was.) I'm not so interested in playing with him as a DM again.

Once our current campaign is over, that is.

Carcer

Yeah, it's Starfinder

NautArch

@Carcer From what I've read about pathfinder, that seems very crunch for a one-off or short trial. But 13th Age may have the same issue.

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