TRPG General Chat

12:37 AM

@Ben Could be worse. One time, I created a new local non-admin user, and it somehow managed to designate itself sole owner of the C drive. It couldn't do anything because it wasn't an admin, and no-one else could do anything because they couldn't access anything on C. We had to brick the machine and reinstall windows.

It is a conundrum.

@Miniman Oh.

Oh... n-no....

I don't know the validity of it, but a friend's brother was trying to make space on their PC for a new game, and somehow deleted "My Computer".

This was Pre-Vista

@Ben That...hmmm. I feel like that shouldn't be a major issue, but suspect it probably is.

@Miniman Well, it'd just mean you can't change anything on your PC. Lol

From a preliminary understanding, "My Computer" is just a management tool

Yeah, exactly.

It is interesting since it's not a shortcut or anything. So how they even managed to do that is in itself a mystery. Lol

12:50 AM

Well, you can remove it from the desktop and start menu, but after that, no idea.

1:18 AM

Question

If I have a belt of Giant Str (Fire Giant - Str 25), why would I boost my Str up to max? Just as a fallback?

Actually nevermind. Dumb Question

Um,.. I assume max is 25 and then that belt is useless?

@trogdor Max being 20

So the default max

Ah

Still,... If I had a belt that did that I would put other stats up I think

Even is strength is what I usually use for everything, Con is always nice to bump up

Yeah.

Just doing a build for a lvl 20 pc.

Even if no other stat is too useful for the character in question

1:30 AM

@trogdor Relephant rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/96489/…

@trogdor Though particularly important for a Barb

Yeah con is pretty important

@Ben Short answer - because the stat-boosting items in 5e are shockingly badly designed.

Not everyone needs it to be high but it helps not to have it in the negatives

@Miniman Fair point

I just figure worst case scenario if the belt gets removed, I'm not a level 20 barb with 12 str.

Lol

@Ben If you're guaranteed a belt of fire giant strength, that greatly changed the calculus on Bb20 vs Bb20-X/FtrX, in my book. It's still 40 hp you're giving up, but not the boost to attack bonuses and saves/checks.

@Ben Make your other magic item sovereign glue and glue the belt on =)

1:41 AM

@nitsua60 Lol. That's a good point :D

Maybe a bag of holding... could be useful

(probably too rare, though--I didn't summon the energy to turn 90 degrees, extend my arm 1 foot, and take the DMG off the shelf to look)

roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Bag%20of%20Holding#content

Is uncommon

Oh you mean the glue?

Ummm… Yup

Is legendary. Lol

2:08 AM

Ok... my brain has completely shut down. Lol

Trying to figure out my HP at level 20, starting at 15 con, 16 at level 4, then 18 at level 8, starting with 14 (12+2)

Does 171 sound right?

@Ben Only thing that matters is final con mod--remember that the changes are retroactive to max hp.

12 + 7*(level-1) + conmod*level.

The logic of that escapes me right now.

So, 12+7*19+4*20?

yup.

That gives me 225... sounds more accurate.

3:41 AM

Must stop obsessing over this answer that is outscoring mine. I usually don't mind but this one just isn't well supported at all... I just need to walk away.

@Rubiksmoose It's off so that means I turn it on… and just walk away!

4:11 AM

@Ben lol

4:38 AM

Oh my god probability calculations.

Stats for [1d20+0?d3+0:2d3++0*]
=======================================
Outcome | # of Trials | Odds      | Odds of Passing
     +1 |          57 |  31.6667% |       100.0000%
     +2 |          57 |  31.6667% |        68.3333%
     +3 |          57 |  31.6667% |        36.6667%
    +2* |           1 |   0.5556% |         5.0000%
    +3* |           2 |   1.1111% |         4.4444%
    +4* |           3 |   1.6667% |         3.3333%
    +5* |           2 |   1.1111% |         1.6667%
    +6* |           1 |   0.5556% |         0.5556%

TL;DR: my "universal probability calculator" can handle critical hits now.

I deliberately tagged the critical hits so they wouldn't merge with the non-critical stats, this is how it would normally render:

Stats for [1d20+0?d3+0:2d3]
=======================================
Outcome | # of Trials | Odds      | Odds of Passing
     +1 |          57 |  31.6667% |       100.0000%
     +2 |          58 |  32.2222% |        68.3333%
     +3 |          59 |  32.7778% |        36.1111%
     +4 |           3 |   1.6667% |         3.3333%
     +5 |           2 |   1.1111% |         1.6667%
     +6 |           1 |   0.5556% |         0.5556%
=======================================
Num of Trials: 180 (180)
Mean: 2.1

5:41 AM

Sup

10:36 AM

Good morning! o/

g'morn

Helwar

good whatever it is wherever you are to you too o/

10:57 AM

How's everyone doing?

Derpy

Polymorph in a creature than can eat leather, then eat the belt.
... wait, wrong game.

Drag and Drop

1:14 PM

Hi, everyone!

Ahoy there matey

Hiya

Drag and Drop

@kviiri, karate shop salute to you too

@Xirema Tell me more!!!

2:21 PM

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/135453/is-there-a-list-of-faer%C3%BBn-equivalent-of-christmas-traditions

Does this need any particular edits, could be too broad?

NautArch

@StuperUser I think that's good.

I don't know the answer, but that's a pretty specific question.

Cracking!

NautArch

@Ben that's why i rebuilt the stats with an 8 str :)

@StuperUser I also keep reading your name is StuporUser. I need more coffee.

eimyr

@nitsua60 kickstarter.com/projects/ardensludere/…

Hopefully the coffee will drag you out of your :sunglasses on: stupor

CSI: Waterdeep theme

2:27 PM

@StuperUser forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Midwinter

I don't know enough to type up a proper answer, maybe someone does

but that's a start

@goodguy5 that is a splendid start, I'll get au fait(rûn) with those and could write up an answer

I feel like gnomes are going to be your best bet. they seem the most whimsical and likely to do anything christmasy

Dinosaur Princesses: a story game for all ages (Kickstarter)

3

thanks for cleaning up eimyr's link

2:43 PM

@StuperUser Is there a Naughty vs Nice list or does St Nick use a 3x3 alignment grid

Lawful Nice
Kinda Average
Chaotic Naughty

Q: Can I cast major image every day to make a new illusion?

why does this question have a bunch of downvotes?

-4

Can my 11th level Wizard cast major image at 6 level and make a new illusion once a day that lasts forever until dispelled?

oh, probably the edits

The question has been through several major revisions.

yea

@doppelgreener I like the idea but could it be simulated (emulated?) in GSS?

Mesozoic Sky Stories

2:48 PM

I really hate how hard it is to dislodge or improve a selected answer that is out of date and/or wrong.

@Rubiksmoose How do other stacks handle it? It must happen on S.O. right?

A: When rules change but votes don't, how to handle it?

I think they don't. I wrote a meta on it and once you've done the things on the list you're pretty much out of options.

8

Here are the options available to you if you disagree with the top voted and/or accepted answer: Your options #1 and #2 are acceptable but other answers have covered why #3-6 are not. Instead I will cover the range of options you do have within the SE system to deal with cases like these. In gen...

Hmm...

I can't be sure about that since I am only active here, but that is my impression. It is just something inherent to the SE system.

The answer that is bugging me is this one rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/116513/…

Fwiw @SirCinnamon you also have an answer on there that could probably be improved by addressing JC's claims, even though he disagrees with your RAW

@Rubiksmoose :0 link?

2:58 PM

oh, neat. if you reduce disintegrates damage (to zero), it doesn't do anything.

@SirCinnamon Second answer here

Top answer is just wrong. I made edits to make it slightly more right, but there is no way to fix the logic :-/

And I'm not a fan of how they tried to, dishonestly IMO, cite the JC tweet.

@goodguy5 Yup! I have no idea what you could use to do that, but that would work. Also, just being at 0 HP works. Though you will die due to damage eventually if not immediately.

ARGH ME TOO ANGRY TO DISINTEGRATE

imagine a barbarian-shaped pile of ash that continues to make attack rolls

hahaha

3:14 PM

@Rubiksmoose I'm struggling to reconcile the tweet. JC is an authority on RAI but he says it means X RAW but I don't really agree

@SirCinnamon I really don't see much room for confusion personally. I think it is hard if you are thinking about what makes sense for the spell (which is RAI), but the RAW simply has a miswording in it which creates an unintentional loophole.

Being at 0 HP means you cannot be reduced to 0 HP until your HP changes from that.

@MikeQ I mean, if you want cute dinosaurs solving peoples' problems, sure! This looks a bit different though.

@Rubiksmoose SO handles versioning kinda badly. It's one of the issues that is on the company's radar, but I think it's one of those things that's not yet at the breaking point, and most solutions wind up giving us a state of affairs that's kinda sorta worse than what we've currently got.

I mean, there's times we could really, really do with versioning, but it usually gets resolved by existing tools, like simply asking about Pathfinder 2e instead of Pathfinder.

"If the target is at zero points from a result of this damage..."
(as in, should be)

no, that still doesn't work.

"If the target's health is 0 hit points after taking this damage"

@doppelgreener i mean it does seem like a tough problem honestly.

@goodguy5 I think that isa great way to put it.

@Rubiksmoose How does this apply to other "reduce to 0 hit points" effects though

are unconscious folk immune unilaterally? Giant spider bite for example

3:27 PM

@Rubiksmoose yes, very

@SirCinnamon be carefule to conflate 0 HP and unconscious. Obviously in the case of the QA we are talking about they are not the same condition.

@Rubiksmoose but an unconscious person is at 0 HP

@SirCinnamon but not every 0 HP person is unconscious.

And not every unconscious person is at 0 HP

if we accept that damage at 0 is not damage that reduces you to 0, then being at 0 for any reason makes you immune to a bunch of things

But yes, someone at 0 HP is immune from any triggers that depend on being reduced to 0 HP RAW

3:31 PM

Does it really?

@SirCinnamon Sure, but RAW is RAW only. Clearly RAI is not that.

How many effects are there really that this affects?

But wait, there is precedent for using common sense rather than a strict literal reading, such as "total" actually meaning "at least a total"

@SirCinnamon We don't really have a choice but to accept that because that is whawt RAW says. We aren't responsible for making excuses and contorting RAW until it makes sense.

@Rubiksmoose right.. which is kind of why my interpretation of "reduced to 0 HP" included damage at 0 HP because it seemed to be of the two ways to read it, the one that the rules aligned with

But what we can do is just admit that RAW makes no sense and offer alternatives.

@MikeQ Sure, it is one reason why playing a strictly RAW game is...not advisable.

3:34 PM

Rules As Summoning Ritual For Eldritch Visitations (RASRFEV)

There's nothing wrong with admitting that the source we are working from is imperfect and offering common-sense solutions to issues arising from that fact.

@Rubiksmoose Yeah, for sure. That's been a healthy philosophy to apply to multiple games I've had fun playing.

@SirCinnamon I don't really see the multiple ways that you do.

@Rubiksmoose My reading of "Damage reduces you to 0 HP" was "You take damage and end up at 0 HP"

@SirCinnamon But that is not what "reduce" means

Reduce means to go from some other value down to this. It doesn't mean going from one number to the same number.

3:38 PM

@Rubiksmoose Well you get reduced below 0 which reduces you to 0

@SirCinnamon There is no HP below 0.

@Rubiksmoose Exactly

and HP cannot be reduced to below 0.

@SirCinnamon I guess I am not understanding you. There is no way to get "reduced below zero"

When you are at 0 HP you take damage, but instead of reducing your HP it causes you to fail death saves.

Or, if you take enough, die instantly.

@Rubiksmoose when you take damage at low HP you calculate "how far below 0" you go and if that number > max HP you die. Otherwise you go to 0

negative HP isnt a mechanic but it's part of that calculation

@SirCinnamon Sure, but that is not an actual HP reduction. IT is just a calculation for that mechanic.

Your HP never changes there.

3:43 PM

I know

You take damage, your HP stays the same, if the damage you take exceeds a certain amount you die.

0 - [damage] ≡ 0 mod 1

problem solved

@MikeQ P NP complete!

P = NP for values of P such that P = NP.

Let N = 1

thus P = NP

qed

3:54 PM

I'm calling the Clay Mathematics Institute on TWO PHONES

hahaha

4:06 PM

businessinsider.com/p-vs-np-millennium-prize-problems-2014-9

a million bucks for ya

P = NP for values of P (payout) = $1,000,000.

Q: Should my fighter really punch that werewolf?

0

A werewolf has the following in its stat block: Damage Immunities: Bludgeoning, Piercing, And Slashing Damage From Nonmagical Weapons That Aren't Silvered And as established in the errata, unarmed strikes aren't weapon attacks. Weapons (p. 149). Unarmed strike doesn’t belong on the Weap...

dnd-5e rules-as-written unarmed-combat

First I thought it was a silly question, but then I remembered it works exactly like that in Morrowind.

@kviiri So this is ~~rules lawyering~~ creative rules interpretation based on the wording of the immunity being to "nonmagical weapons that aren't silvered"?

@Yuuki Yep

And your unarmed strike technically not being a weapon.

4:15 PM

it's RAW jokery

I mean, I approve, because it's a hilarious oversight in how the unarmed strike / weapon / immunity stuff is written

This is exactly what I expected from someone with a Knob Goblin Chef avatar.

that's KoL, isn't it?

Yes.

been a while.

I'll be sad if he gets downvoted anyway

I don't really play it these days but I still keep my monthly donation up because I thoroughly enjoyed every minute I spent on that game and it's only $10 a month.

The writing is absolute top-notch and everyone on that team deserves every dollar they get.

4:22 PM

> Damage Immunities Bludgeoning, Piercing, And Slashing Damage From Nonmagical Weapons That Aren't Silvered

Wow, that casing

I can't decide how I feel about the implications of that unarmed strike werewolf question

That's actually a thing at least according to roll20

@doppelgreener You could totally read that as complete immunity to bludgeoning and piercing damage. And then immunity to slashing damage from nonmagical nonsilvered weapons.

wew ambiguous english

oh thank god, slagmoth gave me what I needed

@doppelgreener dndbeyond's entry is a saner: " Damage Immunities Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing from Nonmagical Attacks that aren't Silvered "

4:26 PM

eh..... I don't know.

If it was "Bludgeoning *Damage*, Piercing *Damage*, and Slashing Damage From Nonmagical Weapons That Aren't Silvered" then maybe you could interpret it that way

but as written, no sane English speaker would even humor that argument.

My pre5e characters always started with a cold iron crowbar and a silvered dagger

just in case

@goodguy5 One of my PCs used to work in a cocktail lounge that catered solely to kenku customers.

It was a crow bar.

hyuk hyuk hyuk

Monster-hunting tip: If you cast Ray of Frost on an iron dagger, it becomes a cold iron dagger

XD

"chill metal"

wait hang on

does chill metal not exist in 5e

GreySage

4:32 PM

@Carcer Is that like Jazz mixed with Heavy Metal?

no, it's just metal except you get stoned first, I think

If you use a potion or compound to break off a piece of someone else's dagger.
You have an alchemical sliver dagger

Chill Metal is like Calm Animals but for metallic creatures

3

If you have a French glass dagger that you melt and re-cast, it's a "still verre" dagger.

Fill a flask up with melted cinnamon candies.
For a potion of fireball. (decided against the whiskey joke)

4:36 PM

@Carcer One thing I miss is how a lot of AD&D 1e spells were reversible. Chill Metal would be a cool reversal to add to Heat Metal.

@KorvinStarmast however, I do NOT miss that they were all separate spell slots.

If your character's age and Charisma are high enough, they become a Silver Fox and their unarmed attacks count as silver

@KorvinStarmast given the trend with 5e you'd think that'd be something they'd added

create water and destroy water
some other things.

Detect Magic and Ignore Magic

Disintegrate and Integrate

4:39 PM

@MikeQ I added an answer: wear silver rings on fingers, punch werewolf. MIght work. Sweet Gypsy Rose would be hell on lycanthropes if she were a monk. She has rings on her fingers and bells on her toes ... silver bells, at Christmas time? (start at about 0:41)

@MikeQ Fireball and Firebnone.

2

@MikeQ Differential and Integral

Pass With Trace

Message and Neatage.

Scrying and Slaughing.

Cone of Cyoung.

Spiritual Youapon

4:43 PM

Friends and Fribeginnings

@MikeQ That would be pretty funny

Novicetection from Good and Evil.

that one took me a minute

Levitate, Ashertate, Reubentate, Simeontate etc.

<-- whoosh

huh

4:45 PM

Guise Self

Meteor Swdisarm.

If you're playing an elf, Disguise Self disguises elf.

@kviiri golf clap

Poststidigitation

that crowd is looking pretty thin. I cast

meatier swarm

4:47 PM

Prestianalogitation.

Telestarboard, for the right nautical travel ..

@kviiri I can't focus on any other letters than "ianal", don't judge me.

Confusion and Profusion

Wholly Aura.

^woolly?

4:48 PM

Akin to Levitate is Strausstate, and their nemesis Leetate and Wranglertate ...

Magic Hittile.

@goodguy5 Holy Aura -> Holey Aura -> Whole-y Aura.

Or Magic Mistersile?

Also, for the opposite of Fireball, Hireball.

@kviiri Magic Hitile. It always misses.

Ethefakeness.

4:49 PM

@Yuuki ah. I was thinking of hide aura (which may or may not exist)

Sheal?

@goodguy5 You mean, Conjure Lead Cloak?

I also dislike how many bolts there are, and still nowhere near enough rivets, screws or nails.

Conjure Someimals

Expeditious Retrick

@MikeQ actually, that's a legit idea for a spell.

4:52 PM

Insect Plague, Outsect Plague.

This makes me want to present discount spell books.

Mage Disarmor

@MikeQ Mage Legor.

"Come on down to Haventerford's Handy Spell Shop!"

Do you folks know what was France's top defense versus spellcasters before WWII?

Why, the Magi-not line, of course.

4:55 PM

"For only 50 gp, you can get a custom spell book containing such favorites as "Magic Mist Aisle", "Eject Weevils and Foods", and "Furball"!"

Create What? Err...

XD

Goodbury, for when it's too late for Goodberry.

@goodguy5 I did stuff like this at my table. The spell lists were just the market-approved spells. Writing the spell differently could cause other effects

And my personal favorite spell that I came up with.

Leomand's Portable Outhouse.

4:58 PM

@kviiri Mehberry works in a pinch though.

e.g. Someone sells cheap bootleg scrolls in a back alley but they're "buggy". Maybe a wizard forgot a semicolon while writing their scroll of Haste and now it's a scroll of Waste instead.

afk meeting

They're like pistachios. Every 10th one is terrible and deals you 1 damage instead of healing you.

Leomund's Tiny Nut

That does something... Else

5:01 PM

It conjures exactly one nonmagical acorn

@kviiri groan that can be heard across the Atlantic Ocean

@KorvinStarmast :D

@goodguy5 Another approach for "buggy bootleg scrolls" would be to roll and consult the wild magic table

@goodguy5 In your portable outhouse?

@Rubiksmoose I prefer Evilberry

May as well complete the set with Lawfulberry, Chaoticberry, and Neutralberry

5:19 PM

Okay, so handling crits now, I reran the stats for @Ben's various Barbarian choices. gist.github.com/Xirema/93662f3620542223a8af6b106ea6802c

TL;DR: TWFFS Barb17/ChampFighter3 is extremely competitive, but is still slightly edged out by a TWF Barb20.

Incidentally, taking crits into account pushed TWF Barb above 2hBarb. The extra attack's ability to crit ends up being pretty significant.

Also, Barb17/ChampFighter3 is nearly identical to Barb20 (both TWF) at lower enemy AC values, but begins to lag behind more severely when the AC differences are more stark. I suspect it may catch up if the AC is ludicrously high (30-40 range).

@kviiri Back when Leomund was buff, he had Leomund's Tiny Gut.

@KorvinStarmast Nice :D

Yup, there's an advantage the hybrid build gains when AC is too high to hit with anything other than a crit.

Stats for Roll [[Primal Champion Battleaxe 2h vs AC40]x2]
====
Total Possible Rolls: 4.0E10 (40000000000)
Mean: 3.300000
Median: 0
Mode: 0 (3.61E10)
95% Range: [0,+37]

Stats for Roll [[Primal Champion Short Sword TWF vs AC40]x2+Primal Champion Short Sword TWF (Off) vs AC40]
====
Total Possible Rolls: 1.7414258688E13 (17414258688000)
Mean: 3.400000
Median: 0
Mode: 0 (1.4930550042624E13)
95% Range: [0,+28]

Stats for Roll [[Fighter Dip TWFFS Short Sword TWF vs AC40]x3]
====
Total Possible Rolls: 1.7414258688E13 (17414258688000)

(But also, AC26 is the highest listed in the monster manual, so an AC of 40 is, like I suggested, ludicrously high)

5:38 PM

(Also, it's mostly mooted by the Giant's Belt, since that negates the benefits of Primal Champion, and the TWFFS Champion Fighter almost certainly hits the top under those conditions)

Yeah, the Belt really changed the calculus on that one.

@nitsua60 I also underestimated how much crits would factor into the overall calculations. TWF as a Barbarian becomes a lot more appealing when you remember that a single crit will overtake most of your other damage output.

Morning all

Another 3am start for me!

@Ben Hey, speak of the devil.

@NautArch outdid himself did he? Hehe

5:45 PM

Nautarch's advice from yesterday pretty much still holds, FYI. Take the belt as your very rare item. If you for some reason get denied the belt (because reasons), you can use the stats I generated to figure out which build has the most DPR.

It's TWFFSChampFighter3/Barb17/wGiantsBelt >> TWFBarb20 > TWFFSChampFighter3/Barb17 >> TWFFSFighter1/Barb19 > 2HBarb20.

@Xirema Stats... which were?

@Ben These. gist.github.com/Xirema/93662f3620542223a8af6b106ea6802c

Oh right, so you didn't mean stats like attributes?

@Ben Well, it's a probability distribution. It's the stats of how much damage each build does.

(on average)

Right

5:49 PM

(and minimums/maximums in the raw stats later)

Once again, my apologies but I'm just going to have to believe you haha. The numbers don't speak to me lol