TRPG General Chat

KorvinStarmast

12:29 AM

@MikeQ I'd call that a good plan. thx for the tip. :)

nitsua60

1:57 AM

@JoelHarmon finished Mistborn.

2

Ben

4:25 AM

Is there a "Social" stack? or is this effectively it? haha

I am having some issues with our D&D group, not in regards to the game, more in regards to the people and their individual behaviours, and it's causing... issues.

However I'm not exactly sure how to deal with it, because I'm not sure who's exactly to blame. Myself, or them.

Miniman

There's an interpersonal stack.

Ben

Awesome :)

Mike Q

But if it's tabletop related then it may be topical for here too

Ben

4:47 AM

Not overly. The only time we really interact is during our meet-ups for game sessions, but I don't feel it's related to gameplay.

It's more the social aspect

I just get ignored and spoken over the top of a lot

BESW

5:04 AM

Interpersonal.se is... very niche.

Last I checked in, they were having trouble comprehending that some kinds of interactions that seem casual and non-threatening for some are existential threats for others.

trogdor

mmm

how sad

like how I absolutely hate all parties with more than like, 5 people

BESW

Relatedly, they tend to suffer from failing to differentiate "nice" from "kind" or "compassionate."

@trogdor More like, conversations about identity (race, gender, etc) can be amusing theoretical discussions for some folks but for other people in the conversation it can be a debate over their right to personhood.

trogdor

ooooh

@BESW well, those are all,.. adjacent things

but certainly not the exact same

BESW

Yeah. I've talked about this in the context of the Stack Exchange "be nice" policy, where "niceness" is often a way of prettying up things that are very unkind and completely lacking in compassion..

Kindness and compassion is often nice, but niceness/politeness/civility is often used as a fig leaf for refusing to be either of those things--for example, so long as you don't say certain words, you can defend being as mean as you like.

In the Interpersonal.se example I saw, someone was asking a very sincere question about how to handle it when other people demanded that he engage them on a very personal topic in a very uncomfortable way, and IP.SE meta dogpiled him with demands for justifying why he got uncomfortable when casual friends wanted him to have these very personal, uncomfortable conversations about the power imbalance between himself and those casual friends.

user15026

I like the idea of IPS.SE better than the actual experience, mostly

V2Blast

5:18 AM

I like the moderation of IPS.SE when I've come across it

I don't spend enough time there to comment on much else

anyway, a question:

BESW

It seems very useful for people in a very specific set of circumstances, but broadly unwilling to expand its perspective beyond that niche, and aggressively defensive when confronted with the narrowness of its applicability.

(A compassionate response to that person's question would have accepted his being uncomfortable as truth, rather than challenging his right to his own feeling. They weren't rude about asking him to justify his feelings, but that didn't make it any less insisting that he wasn't entitled to feelings they didn't understand or agree with.)

V2Blast

is it just me, or does [hexblade] seem overly niche to justify a tag?

(did hexblades even exist in older editions? I dunno the history)

BESW

@V2Blast Broad policy rule of thumb: don't mess with the tags until there's a problem we can give examples of.

V2Blast

Yeah, didn't plan on messing with it. That's why I'm asking here

BESW

We let folks come up with tags and we learn, from the use of those tags, how the site's tagging works.

V2Blast

5:23 AM

it doesn't have any usage guidance either

Miniman

@V2Blast In 3.5, they were a very crappy, underused base class.

V2Blast

(not that it really needs it since it's only on four 5e questions)

ah

Miniman

In 4e, they were a type of warlock.

Mike Q

@BESW I dunno about rudeness, but I know their stack has a pervasive problem about making cultural/social assumptions, which causes friction when anything deviates from it

BESW

A mediocre type of warlock, sadly, despite the awesome flavor.

Miniman

5:25 AM

In 5e, they're...well, you know.

V2Blast

lol, yeah

Miniman

And no one wants to hear me diatribing about this again.

V2Blast

The Forgotten Realms wiki page has this: forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Hexblade

with just one citation to a WOTC page from 2007, and the cleanup template says it's mostly copied from that page

BESW

I think it's useful to remember that terms aren't franchise-specific.

Dungeon World has Hexblades, for example.

V2Blast

Ah, didn't know that

never played it

I know many terms aren't franchise-specific but I didn't expect Hexblade to be a thing outside D&D

BESW

5:30 AM

Even setting that aside, though, all that's needed to justify a tag is that it describes a question's content in ways that makes it easier for experts to find it to answer it, and for other people with that same question to find it.

V2Blast

fair enough

on an unrelated note, I'm confused at the downvotes on my answer here:

-2

A: Can two Large (or larger) creatures flank two Medium creatures who might split attention?

Neither creature is currently flanked regardless. The optional flanking rule is described on DMG p. 251 (with an image demonstrating it on the previous page): A creature can’t flank an enemy that it can’t see. A creature also can’t flank while it is incapacitated. A Large or larger creature ...

BESW

Because it's unintuitive AND excessively literal, inasmuch as it ignores the basic definition entirely in favor of the example for checking.

V2Blast

fair enough

BESW

"When a creature and at least one of its allies are adjacent to an enemy and on opposite sides or corners of the enemy’s space, they flank that enemy." That's clearly what's going on in this case.

V2Blast

Yeah. It also says: "A Large or larger creature is flanking as long as at least one square or hex of its space qualifies for flanking."
The problem is that the text is a little self-contradictory, in that the rule they propose for when it's "in doubt" whether flanking is going on directly contradicted by the basic description of flanking.

Guess I'll just edit it to point out the contradiction

BESW

5:40 AM

That would make it a much better answer. As originally stated you're just picking one of the contradictory statements and ignoring all the others.

And it's one of the least intuitive and weirdest.

V2Blast

I missed the contradictory parts originally

I disagree that it's really any weirder than the other way to interpret it though

Flanking's just a terribly designed optional rule in 5e

BESW

Wait, okay, I just read 3.5's version of that "draw a line" check and that clarifies that there is no contraction.

5e's text: "If the line passes through opposite sides or corners of the enemy’s space, the enemy is flanked."

> or corners

The line from middle to middle of the giants passes through two corners of each of the smaller creatures.

V2Blast

but it doesn't pass through "opposite corners"

e.g. top right and bottom left

BESW

I think a good case can be made that they intend the same check that 3.5 describes more clearly:

> If the line passes through opposite borders of the opponent's space (including corners of those borders), then the opponent is flanked.

The two corners in question are the corners of opposite borders.

V2Blast

if "opposite" wasn't an operative word there, then you could have enemy A to the creature's west, and enemy B to the creature's northeast or southeast, and still get flanking

BESW

5:46 AM

Mike Q

@BESW I think that section is just for when it's ambiguous

BESW

@MikeQ Agreed. I don't think, in this case, it is ambiguous at all within 5e's non-legalistic environment.

Mike Q

The question is asking if the flanking is cancelled, because there are now two creatures being flanked, each of which would get the attention of a different flanker

trogdor

@Ash seems appropriate simply from the descriptions

at first I was intrigued by it's existence but,.. oh well

V2Blast

edited

Mike Q

5:55 AM

@V2Blast I don't think the "draw lines from the middle and do geometry" works as a general rule because it's inconsistent

It would mean that two large (2x2) or two gargantuan (4x4) creatures can't flank 1 medium (1x1) creature head-on, but two huge (3x3) creatures can

V2Blast

@MikeQ: You should address the apparent contradiction in your answer as well, even if only to suggest that it's not a contradiction because (as you argue) the last section's only for when it's ambiguous

Mike Q

Otherwise the large sized giants and trolls would be like, "Argh! Me cannot hit puny human! If only me was slightly smaller or slightly bigger!"

V2Blast

@MikeQ That's not really "inconsistent", just perhaps "illogical"

BESW

See, I figure this is why in D&D all the larger creatures tend to be angry and mean.

V2Blast

Hahaha

BESW

5:58 AM

They're perpetually confused and possibly in pain just because they occupy multiple squares in a world designed for one-square people.

V2Blast

I'd believe it

BESW

In 4e, dimensionality changes on a fundamental level when moving from within a five-foot square to between five-foot squares.

V2Blast

does the universe explode

BESW

That is, inside a five-foot area things seem to map to our real-world geometry fairly well. But when you get bigger than that, it uses chess measurements: moving three squares is traveling the same distance whether you're going north or northwest.

Mike Q

There are some features in the PF splat books that give +1 foot bonus per level to certain stats, and it mentions that any extra distance above a multiple of 5 feet doesn't actually count

> Alchemist: Add +1 foot to the range increment of the alchemist’s thrown splash weapons (including the alchemist’s bombs). This option has no effect unless the alchemist has selected it 5 times (or another increment of 5); a range increment of 24 feet is effectively the same as a range increment of 20 feet, for example.

(source)

Apparently planck length in Golarion is context-sensitive

BESW

6:04 AM

If you take this measurement anomaly to its logical conclusion, then you can draw a 5x5 square room on the grid map and your in-game character walking around inside the room will identify it as circular because every point on the wall is equally distant from the center of the room.

But if you draw a circular room on the grid map, your character inside will find that it takes more distance to get to some edges than others, and identify the room as a square.

V2Blast

on a related note, I came across this question about flanking (under related questions) and the revision history clearly suggests it's about the original "D&D Next" playtest rules. was/am I right to revert the tag to [dnd-next-playtest] and fix the phrasing in the post back to "D&D Next" as it originally was?

26

Q: Does flanking always grant advantage, or is it up to discussion?

The rules packet does not provide any specific rules about flanking. However the rule does say that the DM has lots of leeway in deciding when to give advantage or disadvantage in combat. Should it be understood that flanking always gives advantage, or is the DM supposed to only give advantage ...

(It was asked in 2012)

BESW

That moment when you realize "Iä!" is just basically pronounced "Yeah!"

Tweeted by maxgladstone on October 15, 2018 at 5:18 PM

"She loves you, Iä, Iä, Iä!"

Tweeted by maxgladstone on October 15, 2018 at 5:20 PM in reply to maxgladstone

Miniman

@V2Blast Ugh, what a mess. The answers are a mix of Next and 5e, the OP accepted one of the 5e ones...I think you're definitely right, but no matter how it's edited it's going to confuse people.

BESW

Flag for moderator?

Miniman

I'm not sure what there is for a moderator to do, honestly.

BESW

6:13 AM

Close, delete, close for posterity?

Miniman

6:26 AM

I guess? I might just ping whoever is in chat next and point them to this conversation, rather than trying to explain in a flag.

@nitsua60 If you're about, ^^

The Oracle

6:55 AM

0

Q: Getting a "This question has been put on-hold since you loaded the page" popup when trying to flag my (closed) question on mobile

My question was closed as off-topic, and it was suggested that Board & Card Games would be a better location. Okay; that works just as well. So I went to flag to request migration. I was on mobile, so I opened up Chrome, opened the question, and tried to flag it. Except... This question ha...

bug

kviiri

8:13 AM

@BESW I always thought it'd be pronounced more like "Yay" or "Ayaa" in the Anglosphere, which keeps the basic point intact quite well :P

The Finnish pronounciation is quite to the English word "year"

Quite close even

Trish

8:56 AM

@V2Blast are corners opposite of one each other alowable?

T. Sar

11:07 AM

I have a question, but I don't know if is adequate to the main site.

It is about Call truce and similar feats. It is more of a game design question than anything else

My group (me included!) is bothered by this feat existence. We think that things like this shouldn't really be feats, and that Call Truce should be instead a regular use of diplomacy.

Joel Harmon

@nitsua60 So that's what, three books in five days? I take it you liked them.

T. Sar

Our idea is that Call Truce isn't _that special_ - it is just like grappling, charge, running or talking - it is something you simply _can do_ if you're at least a bit able with words.

Would there be a big impact of allowing this, and similar feats, be "built-in rules for regular actions" instead? For now I'm not requiring the feat to "call for a truce", but I would like some opinions on the matter.

Carcer

@T.Sar "what's the balance impact of effectively letting people have this feat for free" seems a valid question

we can't answer "why is this a feat and not just a thing you can do" because that requires divining the designer intent

T. Sar

@Carcer nods

Still, it feels a bit too opinion-based for the main site, so I'm a bit hesitant on posting it there.

That said, I wouldn't mind discussing it over chat!

BESW

It'd be quite doable if you tell us what your balance concerns are.

Joel Harmon

11:18 AM

One thing to note is your entire party has to just stand there and take whatever the opponents dish out, for a full round, which may or may not include you dying. Then you have to make a very hard check after that.

Since most combats I've seen in PF or the D&D systems are in the 4-6 round duration, this seems like a very last-ditch effort kind of thing.

BESW

Personally, I suspect it exists because systems like Pathfinder have a business model of perpetual additional material so everything gets re-legislated into smaller and smaller chunks over time.

...I wonder if anyone's done a D&D-like hack for social attacks against HP, like how FAE flattened the stress tracks into a single abstraction of staying-in-the-fight-ability which could be targeted physically, mentally, socially, etc.

(And not just 4e's ability spread shifts.)

doppelspooker

Mild shock! You think areas of basic human competency shouldn't be packaged away piecemeal prohibitively behind dozens of feats? :D

But yes that's kind of a design problem in Pathfinder

Joel Harmon

@BESW Not the same, but I was once trying to explain to a friend how the system's rules impact options available to the player and the DM. Far too late I came up with the idea of "simplifying" all the saves, armor, weapons, initiative, and dozens of offensive spells into skills for mundane/magical offense/defense, and ask how that might impact combat.

He was trying to argue that a "good DM" could use 5e's Advantage rules to simulate social combat to the same degree as physical combat. The DM would just fill in the blanks.

Carcer

what Call Truce gives you is the special ability of being able to do it in one round even against actively hostile opponents - as normally you cannot "make requests" of creatures unless their attitude is indifferent or better, and influencing them to improve their attitude normally takes at least a minute

doppelspooker

Feats like that coming into existence is a source of people pointing out how martial classes get nerfed. The feat's “Normal:” section functions as errata for how the game normally works, reducing the capacity of characters across the board. Alternately, the feat's existence implies you cannot do that thing without the feat anymore, or cannot as easily.

Carcer

11:32 AM

the rules as written are that you cannot use diplomacy in combat, effectively: "Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future."

so

you could never do that thing without the feat, according to the rules

doppelspooker

The net effect is a feat like that existing changes (by implication or explicit errata) peoples' perception of the capacity of existing skills.

Carcer

they are adding a new way to use diplomacy which was previously not legal

doppelspooker

I mentioned martial classes though: magical classes don't get impacted by these nerfs the same way because they can pick up spells to do things like this, and they can afford many more spells than a martial class can afford feats, and a Wizard could pick up this ability within a few weeks or—if they already have it in their spellbook—be ready to do it tomorrow.

Joel Harmon

@doppelspooker But curiously, martial classes are less likely to have the Cha to pull this off anyway.

Carcer

I'm reading from the skill description of diplomacy, not the feat's normal section

the basic description of skill says: ineffective in combat

doppelspooker

11:35 AM

@Carcer well, “generally ineffective” doesn't mean “can't use it”. I could say "Wait! We have a common enemy!" or "Wait! We didn't do the thing you're accusing us of!" and roll diplomacy, right in the middle of combat, and that might well be very effective and have them no longer intend to cause us harm.

Joel Harmon

(though I suppose higher level characters could have skill points dominate the base stat...)

doppelspooker

But it's probably going to be useless against a gang of devils.

Carcer

I do agree the feat is dumb mind

it shouldn't be something you need a feat to even attempt - a special ability to let you do it faster/better wouldn't be completely out of order

doppelspooker

Yeah

It should've been a skill extension

“The diplomacy skill can has this mechanic now. You could always do this with diplomacy, but now there's a mechanic for it. This is a permanent extension to diplomacy. Everyone automatically has this.”

Carcer

but people don't want changes to the basic rules

the people want feats

117 new feats in this book of cooking-based character options, etc.

doppelspooker

11:39 AM

You're right

Carcer

(and 92 cooking spells!)

[slowly veers into Dungeon Meshi]

doppelspooker

This is food for thought about how a game could handle expansions as a paradigm

Carcer

can we talk about dungeon meshi instead

I remembered it existed recently and caught up on the last few chapters

doppelspooker

brilliant. a manga about a dude figuring out how to cook monster meat?

Carcer

sort of

doppelspooker

11:45 AM

when i played WoW, cooking was my absolute favorite skill. P

i made an effort to get absolutely every recipe on all my characters

Carcer

they do eat a lot of monsters

the basic premise is that this adventuring party has one of their members eaten by a dragon - the rest escape, but they need to get her body back before the dragon digests it fully in order to be able to resurrect her, so they rush back into the dungeon without supplies and get by eating monsters and dungeon fauna/flora instead

ooh, lunchtime

doppelspooker

12:32 PM

Topical!

nitsua60

12:49 PM

@Miniman looks like doppelwhateveritisthishalloween got there first =)

@JoelHarmon Oh, no--just the first of the trilogy.

doppelspooker

1:09 PM

@nitsua60 morning crew \o/

KorvinStarmast

1:22 PM

@Miniman My take on hexblade is that they overcompensated for not quite getting blade pact right. (though it's playable)

nitsua60

2:18 PM

@doppelspooker I guess that's what you get, living in the Far East (Atlantic).

doppelspooker

@nitsua60 yes :D

whenever i move back to australia, if i'm still moderating here when i do that, i guess i'll be the graveyard shift :)

KorvinStarmast

@doppelspooker both ends of the clock is good coverage

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast To be frank, I never got what the difference between the blade pact and hexblade were supposed to be (both in terms of mechanic theme or lore)

Carcer

yeah there seems to be some overlap betwixt them

kviiri

And I basically learned of Hexblade first through reading a ton of "it's so OP" postings everywhere that I never really cared much into looking at them :>

Also, I never really got the point of Blade Pact - it always seemed to me that their "cool thing" --- the blade --- is still inferior to the Eldritch Blast, leaving it mostly a backup option.

Colin Gross

2:34 PM

@Carcer I thought Hexblade was a patron option and Blade Pact was a pact option? You could be a hexblade + blade pact warlock.

Yuuki

Some people, myself included, like the idea of being a melee caster. Yeah, you could always just roll a Paladin but that gets monotonous after awhile.

@ColinGross You almost have to if you really want to use blade pact.

Colin Gross

@Yuuki Pigeon holed. Pigeon Hex!

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri pact of the blade is aimed at making the Warlock a 'gish' spell caster/melee mix. Hexblade is a patron. You can be both, if you want to.

Yuuki

The designers decided to put all of their Blade Pact fixes in the Hexblade patron instead of actually fixing Blade Pact.

kviiri

@Yuuki Yea, I can dig that, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't normal blade pact actually quite bad at that? Do you actually get spells that work well with melee?

KorvinStarmast

2:36 PM

If Pact of the blade had brought with it medium armor proficiency at level 3, I think a lot of complaints about it would have been addressed.

Yuuki

@kviiri It is, in fact, quite bad at being melee.

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Between spells and invocations, sort of, but the MAD issue raises its head again and again, in re ability scores.

For example, if blade pact were allowed to cast mage armor over the warlock's inherent light armor, most of the problem solved, invocation wise.

Bladesinger does a much better treatment of gish

kviiri

@Yuuki Yea, hence my earlier comment regarding their cool thing (the blade) being mostly a backup thing.

Colin Gross

@KorvinStarmast Tough to stand up in melee without a breastplate

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri What I liked best about blade pact was the sword being available anytime, anywhere.

kviiri

2:39 PM

@KorvinStarmast Yea, I can imagine that being of great if situational utility

doppelspooker

@KorvinStarmast yas

kviiri

Eg. for getting at Grima at Denethor's court when Gandalf isn't with you.

KorvinStarmast

@ColinGross if you go studded leather, +3 invocation(per my idea), and dex, you have an OK medium armor thing ... but not tanky

Colin Gross

@KorvinStarmast Isn't studded already an options as it's light?

KorvinStarmast

@ColinGross But it does not work with mage armor ... the invocation gives mage armor at will

Yuuki

2:40 PM

@kviiri Well, it’s a chicken and egg thing. People like Blade Pact because it’s themed as a melee caster. The problem is that Blade Pact sucks as a melee caster.

Colin Gross

@KorvinStarmast mage armor for free at will?

Why wear armor at all at that point?

Mike Q

@ColinGross Because warlocks get a limited number of invocations

Yuuki

I think the idea is that the invocation will allow you to stack mage armor on top of light armor.

KorvinStarmast

@ColinGross-> Armor of Shadows: You can cast mage armor on yourself at will, without expending a spell slot or material components. But by rule, mage armor can't stack with any kind of armor. Hence my suggestion to make an exception for blade pact

Colin Gross

@MikeQ I don't think any of them grant free unlimited use of an L1 spell though

KorvinStarmast

2:42 PM

@ColinGross Oh yes they do! :)

Xirema

@ColinGross Quite a few of them do. A few even give at-will use of some L2 spells.

KorvinStarmast

@ColinGross My archfey/chain pact lock had speak with animals invocation. All day, every day, 1st level spell.

Colin Gross

@Xirema I see. What's the level requirement for those?

KorvinStarmast

2

Colin Gross

@KorvinStarmast At L2 you get at will L2 spells?

KorvinStarmast

2:43 PM

Beast Speech and Armor of Shadows come on line at level 2.

No, at will level 1 spells, but just a few of them.

kviiri

@Yuuki Yea

Colin Gross

I stand corrected.

kviiri

There's "melee caster" (as in, a caster who uses spells to support their melee) and a "melee caster" (a caster who also can do melee as a mostly separate thing).

KorvinStarmast

@ColinGross See also Mask of Many Faces : at will, disguise self

Colin Gross

Oh yeah... there it is Armor of Shadows. At will mage armor.

KorvinStarmast

2:46 PM

In a party without a cleric, one can try: Eldritch Sight You can cast detect magic without expending a spell slot.

Colin Gross

@KorvinStarmast Can't wizards already do that as a ritual?

Carcer

yes, but that takes ten minutes per cast

which could be implausible in some circumstances

KorvinStarmast

@ColinGross Where I think Warlock shines is as pact of the tome/ritual casting, utility, to help a party. (yes, wizards can) Collect ritual spells ...

Colin Gross

@KorvinStarmast Not the eldritch blast glass cannon as ranged support?

KorvinStarmast

Dyndrylliac made a nice post over at GiTP about his level 1 Sorc, X warlock (got to 13 IIRC) that was pact of the tome.

@ColinGross You can always have that, regardless of pact or patron

EB is a defining Warlock Feature

Xirema

2:49 PM

Armor of Shadows (no prereq): Mage Armor (L1)
Ascendant Step (level 9): Levitate (L2)
Beast Speech (no prereq): Speak with Animals (L1)
Chains of Carceri (level 15, Pact of the Chain): Hold Monster (L5) (limited to once per creature)
Eldritch Sight (no prereq): Detect Magic (L1)
Fiendish Vigor (no prereq): False Life (L1)
Mask of Many Faces (no prereq): Disguise Self (L1)
Master of Myriad Forms (Level 15): Alter Self (L2)
Misty Visions (no prereq): Silent Image (L1)
Otherworldly Leap (Level 9): Jump (L1)

KorvinStarmast

@ColinGross (The Feylock/Chainlock I played chose repelling blast as an invocation; I had a number of successful "knock them off the cliff" or "down the stairs" moments ... we did a lot of wilderness adventuring

Xirema

All of those invocations permit at-will, no limits casting of those spells.

(Except for the once-per-creature limitation on Chains of Carceri)

Carcer

that one needs you to be pact of the chain, doesn't it?

I know some of the invocations are limited by pact.

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer Yes

@ColinGross I also loved my Sprite, the scout. Really handy

Xirema

@Carcer That one, yes. The other invocations I listed do not have pact prerequisites.

There's also a few more invocations that permit once-per-long-rest casting of some other powerful spells.

Bewitching Whispers (Level 7): Compulsion (L4)
Dreadful Word (Level 7): Confusion (L4)
Gift of the Depths (Level 5): Water Breathing (L3)
Minions of Chaos (Level 9): Conjure Elemental (L5)
Mire the Mind (Level 5): Slow (L3)
Sculptor of Flesh (Level 7): Polymorph (L4)
Signs of Ill Omen (Level 5): Bestow Curse (L3)
Thief of Five Fates (no prereq): Bane (L1)
Trickster's Escape (Level 7): Freedom of Movement (L4)

... Are all invocations that permit once-per-day casting of certain spells.

KorvinStarmast

2:58 PM

@nitsua60 cheese vote cast for our cheese collection at meta.

kviiri

Speaking of that, I think the starred notice would attract more attention if it was more explicit about what it was about.

2

David Coffron

3:41 PM

@KorvinStarmast I made a support celestial Warlock with this in mind and you can put in a lot of work

Healing Light is very strong (it's like a bunch of free healing words)

And frostbite does really good

Not quite as good as vicious mockery (I would go magic initiate bard if I played this character again), but on weapon attacks it's real nice

JohnP

@CodyFerguson - Chatting here can probably get you an answer to your scrying question.

David Coffron

@JohnP idk if pings like that work if he hadn't visited the chatroom

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron Diamonds can global ping users.

David Coffron

Really. Ok

Yuuki

Although the syntax for a global ping is slightly different than just @<Name>.

David Coffron

3:52 PM

Had no idea

kviiri

@<dark runes that would bring other users to the brink of insanity><Name>

2

JohnP

@DavidCoffron Yeah, it's called a "superping".

David Coffron

@JohnP that's a nice feature.

JohnP

I thought the question was answerable, but the PTB decided otherwise. But, it was a good chat type question.

@kviiri Yes, mods have a grimoire that is damaging to the mind. It explains a lot.

kviiri

What's a PTB

ACuriousMind

3:59 PM

Powers That Be

David Coffron

@kviiri I was wondering too but didn't want to ask

kviiri

I wonder if this is my first time getting back to back stars

2

JohnP

Heh, @kviiri you're on a roll.

kviiri

noooo now I'm an accomplice in frivolous starring x(

7

NautArch

@JohnP what question?

JohnP

4:04 PM

Man, I'm so tempted to star that.

Carcer

@NautArch it's been deleted now

JohnP

@NautArch There was a question about how to detect magic scrying of the party in a homebrew system that didn't have that capability built in.

I was basically stating it would have to be language situation based, with magic users feeling it stronger, yadda yadda. Halfway through typing it got closed, and subsequently deleted by owner.

David Coffron

Uh... what did I do wrong in this search parameter? Do I use user id instead?

ACuriousMind

@DavidCoffron yes

You can't use the name because usernames are not unique

NautArch

@JohnP oh weird. Was this your question? Are they using Scry or something eles homebrew?

Carcer

4:11 PM

@NautArch the system was entirely homebrew

not D&D

JohnP

@NautArch Dunno. Not my system, but IIRC completely homebrew

NautArch

@Carcer oooooh

then nm

Carcer

i.e "I'm designing a system, at the moment there's only a mechanic for detecting magical effects that target a creature, how should people detect magical scrying?"

kviiri

Here's a link to the question for those who can see deleted content

Carcer

ah, right, I skimmed it a bit quickly first time

on re-read I think it's probably answerable though more explanation of how magic in their system/setting works might've been required

David Coffron

4:18 PM

@Carcer idk. Feels very idea-generation to me. "How do I narrate this?"

Might be a good subjective there somewhere though

NautArch

@Carcer yeah, if we can get a full explanation of magic in their setting it may be answerable.

nitsua60

4:36 PM

@KorvinStarmast Thank you! I hope it ends up in the top 25 (a few more votes wouldn't hurt...), and don't completely look forward to the logistics of time-sharing the thing. Or, frankly, the kitchen-hygiene implications of time-sharing the thing.

JohnP

@DavidCoffron It could have been very well framed as a "I don't have this in my homebrew. How can I introduce narrative to lead the players to developing capability 'x' because of situation 'y'?"

@nitsua60 Have an upvote. I think I'm pretty solidly locked in for 2nd, but somehow that conglomeration of puns has garnered 14 downvotes.

nitsua60

@JohnP Thanks! It's hard--on meta.SE I don't have enough rep to see up/down tallies, so I'm sorta guessing on where "pure upvote" stands.

Cody Ferguson

:@JohnP Thanks for adding me to the chat! I did not ask the scrying question, however! My question pertains to where the main heroes of the Forgotten Realms are during the Tyranny of Dragons story line. Mainly, looking at examples in existing stories like Out of the Abyss, I hear Drizzt shows up.

JohnP

you're at +19 upvotes, so that ties you with the 404 cheesse not found post.

Carcer

whoops

but now that you're here

I think this is regarded as a pretty common problem with the Forgotten Realms in general

JohnP

4:42 PM

Drizzt isn't in Out of hte Abyss.

I could have sworn that you had asked the homebrew scrying question. Can someone who can see deleted check that?

Carcer

i.e. you can't go two steps without tripping over some kind of legendary hero, what are they all doing?

@JohnP rpg.stackexchange.com/users/47422/julia-witham

JohnP

@Carcer Agh. I pinged the wrong person. :|

@JuliaWitham - You can ask your homebrew question here, and there are a few different ways to frame it to have it last on the main site as well.

@Carcer Drinking for free on their status?

Carcer

@JohnP "Orgy at Alustriel's" is a canonically plausible albeit unlikely answer depending on the timeframe

GreySage

@nitsua60 That "question" is really weird. It's just encouraging random things with cheese, for no apparent reason?

JohnP

@Carcer Or any timeframe with a carefully worded appeal to Velsharoon.

@GreySage They are celebrating the 10th anniversary with a lot of cheese moving (As in "who moved my cheese")

GreySage

4:46 PM

No reason beyond the obvious, "Distract the masses so they'll stop questioning us", I mean.

Carcer

@GreySage ... I mean, if you actually read the question and follow the links you can see the tenuous chain

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Players Tummy Book, which is published after the Players Hand Book, and contains recipes for food in the campaign world

JohnP

ugh.

:p

Dang. I need ~7k more to see deleted ??.

GreySage

@Carcer very tenuous.

KorvinStarmast

@JohnP Right, so get to answering, eh? grin

JohnP

4:53 PM

@KorvinStarmast Oh, I have so many more questions than answers, unfortunately. Unless you suddenly get a rash of 2nd edition or Pathfinder questions. I don't know much past that.

Carcer

people still ask pathfinder questions on the reg

2e AD&D not so much though

GreySage

@JohnP We had a bunch of Pathfinder in the last few days

Carcer

also, for more obscure systems, you can just read the rules and tell people what they are.

there's a lot of points in that.

[goes home]

JohnP

Yeah, mostly it's a time thing.

GreySage

@Carcer Works for non-obscure systems too

JohnP

4:57 PM

I'm not on every day, so often I get there after there is a good answer already.

I def need to get to 3k for the close votes though.

Colin Gross

@JohnP How close do the votes have to be for you? Generally, I prefer those that are within 3 of each other. Really feels like my vote matters.

JohnP

@ColinGross Not sure what you mean? When I review on a site where I don't have a mod-hammer, if I feel it's off topic, I vote accordingly (Or vote to leave open). I don't wait until the majority say before voting.

Colin Gross

@JohnP So a vote doesn't have to be close for you to cast your ballot?

JohnP

@ColinGross Only on sites where I moderate. There my vote is binding, so I have to really feel it is off topic/broad/whatever to close it. Everywhere else, I just vote, once I'm familiar enough with scope to do so.

Colin Gross

@JohnP For binding votes, I recommend twine. Some people, especially mods, claim nails work the best... but for me, it's better to just tie it up nicely with a bow.

KorvinStarmast

5:12 PM

@ColinGross String theory for Mods, I guess. :)

Colin Gross

@KorvinStarmast When you're a mod every vote looks like a nail.

Delioth

Anyone checked out the test-within-a-test of Pathfinder 2e trying to revamp the Resonance system (Resonance=only for worn items expended when you put them on, 10 points flat; Focus=Boost magic item power on-use and use school/domain/ki powers; No expenditure needed to just use a plain potion, but baseline effects lowered across the board)?

Colin Gross

@Delioth Sounds complicated

Delioth

Focus also being a relatively small pool - 1 or 2 from Ancestry plus Charisma, noted that classes which make use of Focus points (Clerics, Monks, Paladins, Wizards, etc) might gain more

I don't think it's too complicated - it's also noted that this is just testing if there's something neat in the system that makes it worth keeping - Resonance becomes something that you mostly won't think of outside of buying items (since you have 10 points, always and forever, it just serves as a limiter on how many magic items you can wear without restricting you to slots)

David Coffron

@ColinGross from a 5e perspective? Very., from a 3.5e perspective? not all that much

Delioth

5:21 PM

Focus is kinda neat too; it's a small pool (as of current, 9 points is the maximum ever) that lets you use magic items or school powers; Like a Wand you can use 1/day, and spending a point of focus lets you use it as many times as it has charges, or you can use an Invisibility Potion for 1d4 rounds or you can expend a point of Focus with that to extend it to an hour

I think it plain doubles healing from potions if you expend a Focus, and some of the idea is that if you have e.g. bracers of arrow deflection that are usable 1/day, you could expend a point of focus to use them again

Colin Gross

@DavidCoffron Language parsing is less complicated than 3.5.

Mark Wells

@Delioth Any indication of what problem that's intended to solve?

Delioth

@MarkWells Empowering players to make meaningful decisions for impactful moments - doubling that potion's effects are a pretty big boost, especially when you only have a few of those points per day (realistically, a Fighter might only have 1-4 Focus points)

JohnP

@nitsua60 - By my count, the RPG cheese post is in the top 25 now. 22nd.

Mark Wells

Doesn't that end up pushing players toward 5-minute work days?

Now in addition to the wizard being out of spell slots, the fighter can be out of awesome points

kviiri

5:37 PM

I guess 5-minute work days are less of a problem if everyone runs out of juice after 5 minutes. (I still wouldn't recommend those, though)

David Coffron

@kviiri Does impact balance though and breaks the narrative a bit imo

(impacts encounter balance*)

kviiri

@DavidCoffron Well, we could assume those points are intended to balance 5 min days

(I won't assume it)

Delioth

I haven't really found it to be an issue - yeah, everyone has their awesome points, but they're not something you'll need every fight. Since they're available for use in consumables to boost them but not strictly required to use a consumable as Resonance v1 was

Like, drinking a healing potion still heals you whether you use awesome points or not, it's just the difference between "good" healing and "saved the fighter from 1 hp to max" healing

kviiri

Now that we're on that topic, does PF2 have any sort of mechanism against 5-minute adventuring days?

Or is it just "up to the GM to handle" like before?

Delioth

Well, at the very least there's 10-minute mundane healing for up to 6 characters with 1 check

Along with a few other 10-minute activities

So there's a sort of de-facto "10 minute short rest" built in - where the Medicine-trained person treats the party's wounds, the shield-user bangs Dents out of his shield, the Knowledge-trained people identify items, etc.

And you can repeat any of those things as often as you like, but if you critical fail the Medicine check specifically the party is bolstered against specifically that character treating their wounds (so if you have 2 people keeping Medicine up, you'll be super-fine)

Treating wounds is Con Mod * Level healing on the targets

(the target's mod & level)

Mark Wells

5:50 PM

Wait, does that mean that if you regular fail the Medicine check then you can just try again?

Delioth

Yeah

Or if you succeed, or critically succeed. Takes 10 minutes each time

Mark Wells

Maybe I'm too old-school for this, but crit failing a Medicine check should be much worse than that. like you put a tourniquet on their neck, or amputate the wrong hand

Delioth

Yeah, and that's also not at all what you're even trying to do

If you're attempting to put any tourniquets on or amputating parts while you're treating wounds of 6 people over 10 minutes, you have no idea how any of this works

Mark Wells

Okay, good point

Yuuki

Also, you're not really supposed to be using tourniquets at all, IIRC.

Delioth

5:54 PM

It's not a "major surgery" or "save from immediately deadly wounds", it's a "clean & bandage wounds, suture if needed, apply herbs or medicines, etc"

kviiri

I think it'd be an extremely untasteful use of the already sketchy "crit fail skill" game.

Yuuki

Critical failures are pointless. The player is already feeling bad because they failed the check and therefore couldn't do what they wanted to do.

Delioth

Critical failure on that check is something more like failing to do it specifically in that timespan. Maybe you forgot to stock up enough bandages last time in town and had to spend the 10 minutes making more, or you dropped all the herbal remedy into the dirt and spent the time trying to salvage what you could, or you started suturing up a wound and your thread got tangled

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki Critical failures can, on occasion, have comedic effect (depending on the tone of the game at the table). But I mostly agree with you: they are pointless-to-punitive in far too many cases.

Delioth

Wait but crit failure also has the extra point of not being able to do it again for the rest of the day; I guess it'd be more like ruining your supplies (but enough that you could recover in the day)

Plus, Pathfinder 2e only has crit failures for specific things, and there are specific effects. Often, normal failure on things still has an effect

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