TRPG General Chat

Trogdor and I are resigned to playing twosies in Fate for the foreseeable future, and are learning that it's best if we keep each campaign to just one or two sessions.

user61230

Interesting, but makes sense.

user61230

9:13 AM

Also maybe a bit more variance in campaign style.

BESW

Most recently we ran Aeon Wave.

And I've joined Evil Hat's Patreon subscription: They promise to deliver a 30-60 page setting/adventure every one to two months, if I promise to pay them $4 each time they do.

user61230

Aron Wave interests me. How is it?

user61230

And I love Patreon.

BESW

@Emracool It's well put together!

Pretty typical near-future dystopia, nothing really stand-out about the setting itself, but well executed.

I was able to run the thing very easily and naturally. There were bits where it was obviously designed for a group instead of a single PC, but Trogdor chose his stunts and skills with that in mind (most of the premade PCs wouldn't have done as well as the one he chose, but that's why he chose that one).

user61230

Hmm, designed for 3-5?

BESW

9:21 AM

Yeah, it's got 6 premade PCs.

And despite being a very short premade with a clear start and pre-determined finish, it didn't feel like I was railroading Trogdor at all.

We made sure his character would want to hit the pre-determined finish line, and how he got there was up to him. The module gave me enough detail of the setting and major NPCs that I could cover anything he wanted to do, but not so much detail that I felt constrained or overwhelmed.

And a solid section of the package was dedicated to expanding the adventure to make it last longer, or expanding the setting if the players wanted to make it a full campaign.

In fact, it may actually have some replay value.

user61230

A classic, one could say. Well executed, clean, simple, and typical of its time, with a hint of rosemary.

user61230

(As an aside: I wish we had more LARPers on the site...)

BESW

Yes.

user61230

Not thrillingly spectacular, but poignantly apt.

user61230

I should be a wine salesman.

doppelgreener

9:25 AM

I feel like I should use something like this to help me with my group running Fate Core.

BESW

@Emracool Or a really weird video game reviewer.

doppelgreener

We still haven't been able to do that just because of the difficulty of getting four people in one place at once.

(when we do finally get together, we generally play something that isn't Fate Core)

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Something like what?

doppelgreener

A premade adventure.

BESW

Ah. Yes.

I am in the market for such things now.

I'm thinking maybe I should also see if @trogdor wants to rebuild the Dresden Files game into Fate Core and finish that up.

Unfortunately, the first Patreon offering from Evil Hat is also a near-future corporate dystopia.

I'm envisioning some bizarre plan where the world becomes a corporate dystopia in the near future, run by the authors of near-future corporate dystopias.

lisardggY

9:37 AM

Just like NASA engineers say they were influenced by early science fiction to become rocket scientists and space engineers.

Depressing dystopian scifi will bring about the end of the world as we know it!

Metool

@lisardggY Or how Otacon became an engineer to build giant mecha, like his Japanese animes!

lisardggY

@Metool The specific reference is lost on me, I'm afraid, but I recognize the general theme and sentiment. :)

Metool

[flop]

BESW

I recently watched Space Seed again, and was amused to see that in the 1990s we had developed transistor-based cryogenics.

Original Star Trek's vision of the near future was... what's one step up from dieselpunk?

lisardggY

My favorite bit of retro-futuristic technology was in the Lensman stories from the 30's and 40's. A huge fleet of spaceships was being coordinated by a gigantic switchboard, 50 foot tall, operated by a squad of people (ok, let's be honest here - women) on hydraulic chairs swooshing around conneting and disconnecting cables.

BESW

9:44 AM

@lisardggY Reviewing the progression of what are considered "women-only" jobs is very strange to me.

lisardggY

@BESW Computer programming was a very female-oriented occupation through the 60's.

BESW

Secretary and typist positions were a decisively male-only job for a very long time; Dracula's Mina learning shorthand was remarked upon repeatedly as a very women's-rights thing.

trogdor

@BESW that might be interesting

part of the fun was that Ben was playing it too, even if that was very off and on

with more off than on

BESW

Then, yes, the job of typist became increasingly a women's position for various socio-economic factors, and that led naturally to women being involved in computer programming because it carried many of the same skills.

trogdor

but it still might be cool

BESW

9:48 AM

Mr. Miyagi's RPG group: Ben off, Ben on.

trogdor

lol

sweep the schedule

BESW

Okay, I'm going to find ginger drinks for my mother. ttfn

doppelgreener

Ttfn!

doppelgreener

10:09 AM

Fun thing: this Fate Looms project involves a lot of data-binding. All the data is in a tree structure, meaning there's the entire app's data, which contains chat and tabletop data, and the tabletop data contains all the information about the cards and tokens on the table, and each of those cards has data about what's on the cards, etc.

Data-binding involves connecting values that you see on the app (e.g. the name of the card) to the right data stored in the programming.

it is a little too easy to mistakenly connect a particular thing you see to completely the wrong data, and have no idea why everything is suddenly completely broken.

lisardggY

Yes, databinding is a great way to have your app seem like it's working perfectly, but then suddenly have a completely random text displayed for all items.

Julix

10:54 AM

who all is still here?

doppelgreener

I am here!1

Julix

I just had an idea and I want to pitch it to someone before I go to sleep so I'll remember, you willing? :-)

I want to design a group of low level PCs, lawful bounty hunters out to get the "criminals" - and a group of chaotic misfits PCs--- in such a way that the mtual enemies complement one another's abilities for a balanced fight. Then I want to build the scenario around that and make it a one shot that can be played starting on either side; or that could be added as a side quest to an ongoing adventure where people have a party already (i.e. interfere, pick a side, watch or ignore)

doppelgreener

I'm willing, what is it?

[reads]

Julix

All of the characters should be interesting enough that you could use that one shot as the beginning of a wonderful adventure :-D

doppelgreener

Who controls the PCs on either side? Do players pick a side then play it together, all on the same side?

Julix

11:01 AM

DM gets one side, players the other - or in the integrated option DM is both (or has a guest DM for one party) and the players play their normal characters

in that case the parties would be small to avoid taking forever

All PCs would be really cool too, but I don't know if that can be done. Like run two separate games at the same time (1 DM per group) and then eventually they all come together and you don't have accidental DM metagaming (because they're not controlling any characters)... that could be fun for like a single event where you have a lot of people.

doppelgreener

Which system is this in particular?

Julix

pathfinder

doppelgreener

Ok, phew. One of the golden rules of 4e is that PCs should not be fighting PCs.

Julix

Right. Normally that's the case for pathfinder too - for social rather than rule reasons

but I have a mature group in mind. a university group called the altered reality club

doppelgreener

I dunno how likely you are to get a balanced fight out of two PCs in Pathfinder, since I'm not super experienced in that system, but if you can that could be quite fun.

Julix

11:08 AM

They could probably handle one group of PCs versus another group of PCs - as long as it's epci

Maybe even make the balance not part of the claim. it's part of the goal but the final product won't have capital letters saying "balanced" --- it'll be rp heavy and experimental and strange - great fun :D

doppelgreener

BESW's previous D&D 4e campaign actually did this: His players played as some characters who ended up in opposition to a Tiefling empire. In addition, he had them make Tiefling characters, and they'd have adventures covering the other side of the conflict. This took place over many sessions though.

Eventually, he had the two groups meet and fight each other as mortal enemies.

Julix

hahaha nice

doppelgreener

I am not entirely sure how he executed it. He might've actually had his players play both sides.

Metool

Hey, Julix, I have a question unrelated to this.

Have you heard of Legend?

doppelgreener

(But this was a major story event, you might not do that in a one-shot)

Julix

11:12 AM

could be even better than I thought. -- the lawful bounty hunters want to get you to jail - but what if there's no fight and the chaotics just come along and surrender? or if there is a fight and they're all arrested? - what if that happens early in the game?

No problem. They get dropped off at a jail, bounty hunters get a new contract (this time hunting NPCs) and go away with their GM, while Chatoics have to find a way out of that local jail -- and then the second group gets a messenger saying their people broke out... haha

@Metool don't think so

@Metool googled it. no idea what RuneQuest II is that it's based on, so still no clue what it's like or about :D

Metool

Just going to mention it. It's free, and pretty cool.

It's not the one by Mongoose.

Julix

@Metool good, because that one isn't free.

Metool

They actually had their legal people speak about it, and Rule of Cool has the name.

Julix

What? Rule of cool (tm) is now literally a tm? :D

Metool

Eh, just Rule of Cool LLC.

Julix

11:18 AM

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool

Metool

That's the basis of the name!

The very concept of the Kiss of Death, the device, amuses me.

doppelgreener

11:34 AM

joys of data binding: implement new feature, having no idea if it will work the way i want it to. refresh page hoping it will. see ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNS of new feature. inspect HTML. new feature appears to not even exist. poke around, fiddle with things. find out some goofy data binding i should have removed was erasing all traces of said feature's existence. feature works perfectly afterwards. woo!

Julix

hehe, yay. :-)

I'm off to bed. it's 3:41 am here in vancouver

Metool

Oh, Canada, eh? Cool. Night then, from Winnipeg.

BESW

11:49 AM

Back.

Report: Mobiles and Shells don't have ginger ale or ginger beer, a random store on Marine Drive doesn't have them, Oka PayLess is 0 for 0, K-Mart has Schweppes, and the Micronesia Mall PayLess has Reed's Ginger Beer.

doppelgreener

@BESW Day saved?

BESW

@JonathanHobbs Yes!

My mom's sick --probably stress and jetlag combining to let something she'd been fighting off get hold-- and carbonated gingery drinks are the order of the night.

doppelgreener

Well chosen ;D

BESW

....Atompunk.

Atompunk is the next step up from dieselpunk.

Original Star Trek has the late 1900s being atompunk.

Rather literally, actually, ethos and all.

Also I am now searching "vin dieselpunk."

...I don't know what I expected to get searching "vin dieselpunk," but this is not it.

8

lisardggY

There's a cool short story by Bruce Sterling and/or William Gibson about atompunk. A sort of homage to the sort of future envisioned by 50's pulp sci fi writers.

Although it might not be specifically *atom*punk.

The Gernsback Continuum

"The Gernsback Continuum" is a short story by William Gibson about a photographer who has been given the assignment of photographing old futuristic architecture. This architecture, although largely forgotten at the time of the story, embodied for the generation that built it their concept of the future. The eponymous "Gernsback" alludes to Hugo Gernsback, a Pulp magazine science fiction publisher during the early 20th century. By using this title Gibson contrasts the future envisaged during Gernsback's style of science fiction and the present, "cyberpunk" era that Gibson was establishing. ...

BESW

12:02 PM

Inbar Rose

@BESW Excellent.

There is a cool setting/idea or whatever that might be interesting, that's all the post-apocalyptic-punk(?) where society has lost the ability to recreate the old technology but can still use it - so it looks very "punky" in that it's all put together from bits and pieces etc.....

BESW

You mean late Soviet Russia.

Inbar Rose

That is explored in many, many mediums, from tv, to movies, to books, to rpg's...

@BESW erm?

BESW

In many Soviet states, especially in the 80s, production of new technology for the average citizen was practically non-existent.

lisardggY

I think this is a standard aspect of post-apocalyptic scenarios.

BESW

12:13 PM

If you had a car, it was 20 years old and assembled from pieces of a dozen different cars, and part of a broken clothes dryer.

Inbar Rose

And what would you call that style of world?

BESW

The Russian or Cuban mechanic was more of a MacGyver than anything else, because he had no access to new anything, he could only repurpose old and increasingly broken parts.

Inbar Rose

So I ask again - what would this be called?

It's not necessarily post-apocalyptic.

lisardggY

@InbarRose I think the "punk" designation, vague as its usage might be, refers to a type of retro-futurism. It's taking a technological snapshot of the past and projecting it onto a future/alternate present where it remained the dominant technology.

Inbar Rose

@lisardggY Okay, I'll accept that.

So what's the opposite?

Using future (advanced) technology to work past (basic) technology.

lisardggY

12:18 PM

I think it's a trope of post-apocalyptic settings in general.

BESW

There's a TV Tropes page for that, if I can find it.

Inbar Rose

Yes - but it lacks it's own title. (afaik)

lisardggY

@BESW I'm looking too. :)

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScavengerWorld

BESW

I was about to link to that.

Also Schizo Tech for when it's only partly lost.

lisardggY

And various other spin-off tropes there.

BESW

12:20 PM

And it's the inversion of possession implies mastery.

Inbar Rose

And of course, Low Culture High Tech

Hmmm... I would say its a cargo-cult setting? (or something similar)

BESW

Probably not.

Cargo cults are about the attitude toward the stuff, not the way its used per se.

lisardggY

Scavenger-world would imply that people don't can't create or produce, but will always tinker and try to get things to work.

BESW

("Cargo cult" is also a meaninglessly broad but catchy term for a wide variety of behaviours.)

lisardggY

Cargo-cult would be more distant veneration of old things, usually focusing on the external, rather than functional characteristics.

BESW

12:24 PM

> Nowadays the term "cargo cult" is often used as a metaphor for superficial imitation of a certain process without even basic understanding of its mechanism. Those south pacific natives weren't worshiping cargo for nothing. They observed how military forces were constantly getting food and supplies without doing any actual (by their standards) work.

> The only explanation that made sense was "military activity is some kind of religious ritual rewarded by spiritual deities with all the goods". So, with the military forces gone, natives have tried to reproduce the rituals - that includes imitation landing strips, wooden radio towers, coconut headphones and body paintings in form of military insignias. The metaphor originally was coined by Richard Feynman, who used it in phrase "cargo cult science".

(TV Tropes source)

Inbar Rose

Punk Punk and Scavenged Punk seem close

lisardggY

I like how the Live Action TV references for Scavenged Punk lists Doctor Who, Community and Sesame Street.

BESW

Scavenged Punk sounds about right.

@lisardggY I immediately checked Literature for The Borrowers.

lisardggY

Although listing "Honey I Shrunk The Kids" is stretching it a bit.

BESW

Mmmh. Yes.

lisardggY

12:27 PM

You might as well just list MacGyver there as well.

BESW

One of the major points of the original Borrowers novels was the notion of finding yourself in a world filled with objects crafted for purposes you cannot possibly use them for.

(I loved those books. They were a delicious mix of wide-eyed wonderment, down-to-earth practicality, and warring cynicism and hope over the state of mankind.)

Inbar Rose

This page on Ragnarok-Proofing is great! :)

Damn that site... You can't escape, each link leads to more links!

lisardggY

12:44 PM

That's TVTropes for you.

Julix

1:34 PM

didn't go to bed. :-(

now I doubt I'm gonna :D

Inbar Rose

2:29 PM

Okay - I finally managed to leave the loop of tvtropes :)

lisardggY

Wow, that was a rough one.

doppelgreener

@InbarRose I count roughly 2-2.5 hours. An impressive time.

Inbar Rose

2:56 PM

heh....

it kept taking me round and round... at some point I was reading about some strange stuff.

Like Hitlers Time Travel Exemption Act

Julix

3:30 PM

I just did some concept art for that goblin white haired witch with hair like snakes... it's still in progress but it's coming along nicely

Inbar Rose

4:05 PM

@Julix Cool :)

I read that question. Most of what I had to say about that would not be a good answer for the site.

GMNoob

4:49 PM

anyone know the quick answer to this?
http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/31471/how-can-i-convert-dd-next-saving-throws-into-defences

Alex P

@GMNoob Writing one right now.

GMNoob

@AlexP thanks

Alex P

You want to convert "d20 + monster_save vs. 8 + caster_modifiers" into "d20 + caster_modifiers vs. ?? + monster_save" right?

GMNoob

yep

Alex P

@GMNoob My "quickie" answer is that ?? is 14. I'll write up why in a sec.

(Someone just posted 12, which changes the math slightly but is more in tune with how the d20 system favors whoever is rolling just a bit.)

GMNoob

5:01 PM

They just changed it to 13 :)

If the normal usage of d20 is to favor the person rolling, then I would assume that when switching who rolls, you should favor the target not rolling :D

ROFL, either stackexchange is playing tricks on me, or people are editing their answers like crazy. I saw two answers, now I only see 1 :D

Alex P

@GMNoob They are editing them, yes.

GMNoob

5:22 PM

Are you going to answer, or should I accept Niel's?

Alex P

I posted one but I'm writing an addendum now about how sometimes it matters WHO is rolling

@GMNoob Generally I wait a few days to accept because it encourages other people to look at the question more. You certainly don't have to -- if you're happy, you're happy. Worst case you can also just move the check mark later (not so for bounties)

GMNoob

@AlexP good point

The Oracle

5:50 PM

0

Q: What do we do about closed questions with bad tags?

So, this question was closed because it's a video-game question. It's tagged with rpg-theory because, well, presumably the asker couldn't find any more appropriate tags and just tagged it with something. So, here's the problem: It soooo not an rpg-theory question, but now it shows up at the t...

Alyksandrei

7:41 PM

[poke] anybody there?

Alex P

What's up?

Alyksandrei

I have a question, but I don't think it's quite right for the site. I was hoping to get help here, either with actual answers or fixing it for main site posting.

Alex P

Okay.

(That was an invitation to say what your question is. :) )

Alyksandrei

Character concept: an expert archer (longbow & throwing daggers) who is also highly academic (lots of skills, esp. Knowledge). What feats/abilities would you consider "essential" and/or "recommended"? 3.PF; freely available on the internet only; official only (no homebrew). I'm not interested in classes/archetypes except as references - just the abilities. Links to non-SRD sources required.

Not well formatted currently, but that's the essence of my question.

Alex P

PF, so I've got nothing. Someone else in chat might have an answer, though.

Alyksandrei

7:52 PM

3.5 is fine if you know anything useful!

@AlexP Am I correct in believing that this sort of question is too "list" and only good for asking in chat?

Alex P

@Alyksandrei I don't think it's a "list" problem, necessarily. But it's kinda in that space where it's both too specific and too vague for RPG SE.

I could see it working out if it was more like "How do I get lots of skills/Knowledges with a martial character?"

Not sure, though.

Alyksandrei

@AlexP that's what I thought. I'm still interested in answers, though. Wonder if anyone else is on who could answer...

Lord_Gareth

8:12 PM

I can

@Alyksandrei - Okay, just finished reading your question. You, ah. You're aware that this is going to be excessively painful, yes? PF's archery support is a hideous mockery of one's hopes and dreams. Its support for mundanes with skill points is worse.

Alyksandrei

@Lord_Gareth Yup. Prolly never gonna use the character, but I'm interesting in trying to build it anyway.

Lord_Gareth

@Alyksandrei Pathfinder's Arcane Archer is a significant improvement over 3.5s, you could snag some Fighter/Wizard (or straight Wizard if you don't mind late entry) and snag that

Alternately, just play a wizard with a bow.

Alyksandrei

@Lord_Gareth ... specific class abilities or feats, please

Lord_Gareth

@Alyksandrei I read that request. There's a reason I ignored it; what I suggested is less about the specific abilities and more about, "You'd have a high Intelligence and all the Knowledge skills as class skills."

The feats Pathfinder has that support having lots of skills...don't.

They let you use skills without being trained in them

Alyksandrei

@Lord_Gareth that's ... not really my issue. I'm actually going to cherry-pick my abilities, skills, etc. using Custom Characters (found it on a site somewhere). Which is why I'm not going to ever play it. Nobody's gonna let me use that method of character building.

Lord_Gareth

8:18 PM

@Alyksandrei There aren't specific abilities to help. I mean, yes, there's archery feats but when I said there's no archery support in PF I meant it.

Alyksandrei

@Lord_Gareth Well, I found some cool-sounding (yes, they're not particularly impressive) feats and abilities on d20PFSRD, so I was kinda just looking for recommendations on what others thought were best/most necessary. And I'm not limiting it to strictly PF, which doesn't mean I'll get anything better.

Lord_Gareth

@Alyksandrei 3.5 can snag you Knowledge Devotion (CompDiv IIRC), Nymph's Kiss (bonus skill points), the splitting weapon enhancement, the force weapon enhancement, and Greater Manyshot

Order of the Bow Initiate (CompWar) has a close-combat shot thing

Alyksandrei

@Lord_Gareth links please?

Lord_Gareth

@Alyksandrei Since I don't pirate and they're not OGL? No.

You'll find Nymph's Kiss in Book of Exalted Deeds

Splitting and Force should be in Magic Item Compendium

Greater Manyshot is somewhere

Over the rainbow

Alyksandrei

@Lord_Gareth thought so. I don't have those ... just Core, SRD, and whatever links people can give me.

Alex P

11:04 PM

We just played BW. I was a-robbin' all these rich people using a magic harp. But then I stole the best treasure of all: a Byzantine princess! Now we are off to see a sorceress who, all things considered, is probably an evil giant spider.

Alex P

11:32 PM

("We" includes the Byzantine princess. Also Olrun's thief buddies. Because all of their treasure is worthless until they can get someone who can take it off their hands, and normal leads have dried up so they're stuck with asking the magician.)

(If they were genre-saavy the thieves would give up now because, for whatever reason, our game has a rather unfortunate but altogether organic tendency to kill off ally NPCs as soon as a new one is introduced.)

BESW

So, I just gave this answer:

1

A: Are some badge awards delayed?

Badges are calculated at regular intervals, not all the time. Processing badges--especially badges with multiple criteria--takes resources, so the site is automated to check for new badge qualifications at certain intervals rather than running that check constantly. The next time the site check...

And had to work really hard not to write "badger koalafications."

Alex P

11:51 PM

Why fight the urge?

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