Hello all.

Bienvenu à tous.

Guys, I gotta go (sleep), but really excited about this site!

bonne nuit :-)

hi all

I don't have time to stay long, but looking at our list of first questions, I'm kinda worried that most are either quite broad or general references

@Fx: I agree, most of the answers can be found instantly in any dictionary, including online.

My understanding of this site was that questions would be asked about things difficult to find in traditional references.

@Pierre303 indeed

I believe it should be clear right now

the same thing happened later in EL&U’s lifespan

and it was (and still is) hard to turn around

maybe we should act fast

@Pierre303 there are some hard questions, but it's always a bit difficult. Like @Fx says, EL&U still often has quite trivial questions...

@Raphink but we close them (mostly)

It's certainly much easier to find hard questions about TeX, Python or Ruby than about French ;-)

ok

anyone has rights to close questions already?

we all can vote

Yes I saw some vote to close questions already.

ok

Bonsoir à tous, je m'en vais pioncer ;)

@Fx @Pierre303 I encourage you to vote to close. As we don't have a “general reference” close reason, I use too “localized”

bonne pionce alors ;-)

@Gilles oui

french.stackexchange.com/questions/19

this, for example, is a clear general reference

@Fx And I may close it immediately if you want as I wrote it and it's clearly general reference

@LudoMC from EL&U experience, I think it'd be the right thing to do

we learnt things the hard way there

No prob, I know how it works :)

I spend quite some time on EL&U, actually, so I hope to help FL&U benefit from what I learnt there

I wish we could have some exchange with the GL&U community

@Fx french.stackexchange.com/questions/64/… marked as too localized, too

Cannot close it as it has answers but also voted it to close

in fact, the “How to Ask in Private Beta” clearly states: Avoid “easy” questions

how about french.stackexchange.com/questions/61/… ?

@Fx You're completely right and jumped too fast on this one.

As Raphink said, it's not that easy to find "hard" questions so that site opens to public beta with "right" questions in only one week

@Raphink I think it's general reference too

translation is fine by me, but not for simple, specific terms

OK, un bug à signaler: les tags ne peuvent pas avoir de lettres accentuées :(

héhé

Hahaha, cela va être effectivement dommage pour un site StackExchange en français.

unicode!

c'est pas sérieux

french.stackexchange.com/questions/60

another one that I feel is too localized :(

je suis d'accord

mais ça pourrait faire du bien à beaucoup de typographes de le lire

surtout chez Disney

La bêta se porte bien en tout cas, il y a beaucoup de questions et celles-ci obtiennent toutes des réponses

Très chouette site SE !

F'x => What do you mean by 'localized'?

@Louhike shouldn't have said localized

it's a general reference, really, which should be avoided

Y a-t-il une limite de réputation par heure/jour ? Ma réputation semble bloquée sur 316 malgré les upvotes.

though we can't close it as such (don't know why), so we have to pick between the choices offered, and Gilles suggested “too localized”

@Laurent par jour - la limite est 200

@Louhike Il n'y a pas de motif de clôture pour les questions trop élémentaires (ça n'existe pas sur Stack Exchange en général, mais English Language and Usage l'a). En attendant, j'utilise « too localized » parce que ces questions n'aident pas les visiteurs futurs (qui peuvent tout aussi bien consulter un dictionnaire).

Très bien, merci de vos réponses.

Mais, si un de vos réponses est accepté après que vous avez atteinte la limite, vous gagnerez un autre 15 points. Ça applique aussi aux "bounties".

bounty le premier jour @LaurentPireyn?

@Ninefingers Merci. Les points sont donc perdus ?

@Raphink Tu n'aurais pas du mettre la comparaison avec l'allemand en réponse. Ce n'est pas une réponse à la question principale mais juste une de tes sous-questions, il serait préférable que tu le mettes en commentaire.

puisque nous n'avons pas encore de modérateur, personne ne peut faire ce boulot-là ? (déplacer certaines réponses en commentaires, etc.)

il est pourtant bien utile…

@LaurentPireyn ah c'est complique - il dépend sur l'ordre des événements! On peut voir french.stackexchange.com/reputation pour les détails et pour recalculer la réputation une fois par jour.

@Louhike oui, je vais le mettre en commentaire...

@Raphink Merci ;)

what is pioncer? ;-)

@jez dormir, en argot

@NineFingers: What's the rationale behind the limitation? I don't feel like answering if I know I cannot earn any more reputation... :-(

ah

@LaurentPireyn heh, you've already got the greatest rep :-)

@Ninefingers: I'm tired anyway. Seeya!

@LaurentPireyn I believe to ensure people with an awful lot of free time can't use that to their advantage, if you see what I mean? A lot of experts find they easily hit the rep cap - Jon Skeet aims to hit it every day on SO, Thomas Pornin hit it frequently in crypto's private beta (he's a cryptographer).

Bonne nuit !

Oui, bonne nuit!

@Pierre303 (and the rest) why is it so good to close relatively simple questions? I'm not sure I buy the explanation that it 'drives experts away from the site'.

Jon Skeet is not a human

Personally, I'm turned off sites that close a lot of questions.

@Raphink: +1 lol

@jez the idea of the beta is to set the level/style of the site

precisely

so we try to get questions that reflect as much as possible what we would like to see in the future

and 'elite questions only' kind of sucks.

and since it's a people's dictature, it's the people that dictate the rules...

meta.french.stackexchange.com/questions/9/…

That's my opinion above

We don't people to ask question that can be answered easily with a simple search on the internet

don't want*

I don't see a problem with a relaxed approach

like yahoo answers ;-)

@Jez “elite” ≠ “the answer is not the top Google result for the question title” :)

All other SE sites also close "general reference" questions (ie question you can find in wikipedia or in google by following any of the first results)

right

OK, so I've written my first question, I welcome all feedback

french.stackexchange.com/questions/72/…

if typing the question title into google yields an obvious result, it's not a good question

and I'd actually like to get an answer to that :)

if wikipedia has a whole article about the subject, it's not a good question

@Fx : hehe, I wish I knew ;-)

@Fx Seen it and already upvoted cause this is a good question :)

@F'x Great question but nobody seems able to answer :D

Just waiting for an expert now... :)

upvoted and stared it

expert fishing

I'm gonna ask my step-mother tomorrow (former french teacher)

@Raphink Well, maybe, but "not answered anywhere else" isn't the only good reason for asking a question here. One may also want a more concise or thorough answer.

actually, I have a good source of questions: I have started to re-read Le Bon Usage, which is mostly descriptive, and every page or so I wonder “why?”

so be reading for me going through it page by page

I never think there is any harm in well asked basic questions, but I think care needs to be taken. A general reference basic question may ask for the not-necessarily-obvious "why" which might be different to the fairly straightforward "what". So I'd caution trigger happy vote to close; although it can be undone by a vote to reopen.

@Fx But will the "why" questions be all on-topic cause I'm not sure there is an explanation for everything

@Jez A site that duplicates a dictionary or wikipedia is boring. If I want Wikipedia, I know where to find it.

@F'x I would love to have this book but the prise is * gasp*

Closing questions is an essential part of having decent quality.

@LudoMC I’ll try to ask only those that are on topic

@Gilles Most questions, even simple ones, aren't exactly duplicating a dictionary.

@Gilles I would marry this quote if I only could :)

@Jez take the “Accents on capital letters” example

@Gilles that's what we call, in English, "bleedin' obvious" :-)

the question is, which and how many questions to close.

@Ninefingers It's especially important to avoid elementary questions in the private beta. You can take an expert site and introduce elementary questions to it. You can't take a free-for-all site and make it attractive to experts.

@Louhike it was a birthday present from my wife (who knows me quite well)

un expert en conjugaison ? french.stackexchange.com/questions/79/temps-surcomposes

@Jez As many as there are bad questions.

Better close half the questions immediately if half the questions are bad.

Je ne connaissais même pas les temps surcomposés !

@Louhike idem

What makes or break the site is not quantity, it's quality.

@Louhike: en fait, j'ai quelques exemples

mais je ne suis pas sûr d'eux

comme

@Gilles my point was that deciding which questions are 'bad' is tough

A recent example: the Cryptography site stayed a long time in private beta, because it had very few questions. But they were high-quality questions with high-quality answers, so the site is going well.

@Jez It's our job for the coming week

après qu'elle a eu été renversée par un camion, elle a commencé à faire attention pour traverser la rue

@Gilles I don't entirely agree. If StackOverflow had had 2 questions / day when it started, it would be dead as a dodo by now. It got big by allowing pretty much any half-decent question. I find it hypocritical for (eg.) Jeff to turn around and say that 'easy' questions should be closed aggressively.

@Raphink I tried to find an example that sounded good

@Louhike : ma prof de français au collège ne les connaissait pas non plus, et dans le bescherelle c'est une petite note en bas d'une page je crois.

@fx et tu as bien trouvé

most of these seldom used tenses are mostly there so the system is complete

ils permettent dans transposer tout un discours du présent au passé, par exemple

s/complete/complex/

Du coup ça m'intéresse d'avoir des explications dessus, je vais voter pour la question

j/k

oui

@Jez Again, no, the experience of creating SE sites (both SO and the many SE2.0 sites) shows that quality is more important, and you can make a good site that starts with 2 questions a day if they're very good.

@Raphink non; "après que" + présent, donc ta concordance doit garder le passé composé simple

après qu'elle a été renversée, elle a commencé…

si je ne m'abuse (SJNMA)

@Raphink La page wikipédia n'est-elle pas suffisante là aussi (principalement la paragraphe Sémantique) ? Même si le sujet est en effet bien moins commun que d'autres.

@F'x You have a little mistake in your answer. It's "exemples" not "examples"

@Gilles You can, but it's probably not a good idea for a thriving community.

@Fx bien vu

@Louhike you can't get me to sauter from français to English without quelques petites mistakes :)

@Gilles and are you going to dispute my assertion about StackOverflow and its number of questions?

@ludomc la page wikipedia est assez complète, mais je trouve qu'il est difficile de trouver de bons exemples de phrases courantes et non "forcées"

@F'x I can only agree with all the mistakes I made in english :)

@Jez: I think we should strive to have a relaxed way of doing things

but today as the first day is a good day to say, maybe, some things like: let's do our best and avoid “general reference”-type questions

ouvrir un site français si tard le soir en france et en semaine, c'est pas une bonne idée ;-)

Je suis bien d'accord, c'est pas sérieux

heh

we won't have to close lots of questions if they're not asked, because there aren't any to begin with

à part ceux qui ont déjà 215 de réputation pour aujourd'hui, tout le monde va se coucher trop tard

ok je me couches maintenant. bonne nuit!

@Jez Sigh again, it is a good idea for a thriving community.

bonne nuit @jez

@Jez Le problème que j'ai avec la question sur la majuscule est que ça prendrait une réponse beaucoup trop longue.

@Jez Yes, I do dispute it. I wasn't in the SO private beta, but I've been in other SE2.0 betas, and driving a site down in the private beta is not a good idea, it's very hard to recover from an influx of low-brow questions.

@jez Bonne nuit

yos

Are you guys stalking me???

Grace, rum, ect...

Bonjour.

@Fx obviously the chat isn't private.

Haha, obviously

allez, au lit

bonne nuit les gens

Sorry, A.P can't speak English. :)

@Fx Mais tu parles Anglais? Pourquoi?

Idem, zou au dodo

Bonne nuit!

Opps, said the innitials of my name.. :(

Pareil, je vais me coucher !

Bonne nuit

Good night from me too.

@rumtscho thanks for testing!

I think quality is important, but quality does not necessarily imply expertise. It's about encouraging expert, well written answers. I think the volume in private beta will be easily manageable and I think editing questions to make them "quality" where possible will have the best outcome, unless they really can't be salvaged.

@Cerberus dur dur de changer sans cesse de langue

je le fait au boulot, mais c'est plus naturel à l'oral qu'à l'écrit

@Fx Capito.

@Fx C'est difficile partout. Mais c'est un peu plus facile si on parle les deux languages assez bien. Le Français, c'est très difficile pour moi.

très, with an s

et tu te débrouilles très bien

@Fx Ah oui, je le sais, c'était qu'un "typo".

e molto melgio che mi italiano

ou un truc du genre :)

@Cerberus typo ==> coquille

@Fx Io no lo creddo!

@Fx Ah, merci bien.

@Cerberus not even good enough to talk with the ragazza (back when I spent some time in Sicily) :(

Quella ragazza?

@Cerberus girls in general

Ah, capito.

anyway, I should go and get some rest

ciao tutti

À Paris, tout le monde parle en Anglais avec moi, mème si je commence en Français.

Adios!

à plus tard édouard !

later alligator

Tot ziens!

@Jez Remember the page you had to click through before asking a question:

french.stackexchange.com/questions/how-to-ask-beta

Avoid “easy” questions

Think like an expert

"easy questions", c'est un peu ambigüe, non?

mais de toute façon c'est le genre de question que l'on devrait résoudre sur le site meta, pas dans le chat :)