The Litter Box

user15026

2:26 AM

@jonsca cough Libraries facepalm

jonsca

Libraries needed some managing, Pets needs less managing

user15026

Yes! Exactly.

user15026

This one does not need to be babysat so much, because people here are super cool and the subject matter works better for the whole Q and A thing

Skippy

@jonsca cheers and I wish I had your knack of responding to things, micromanaging covers everything I was trying to say in an entire rant answer.

jonsca

2

Q: What are the risks of leaving a dog unattended in the car?

I see a fair number of people in my area leaving their dogs in the car while they eat at a restaurant. This doesn't strike me as a particular safe/healthy practice. What are the objective risks, if any, associated with leaving a dog locked unattended in the car (aside from risks of things l...

was a Clusterfudge

Skippy

2:30 AM

@AshleyNunn how can you reopen libraries???

@jonsca speak English clusterfudge ??

user15026

@Skippy What do you mean? As a site? We'd have to go through the proposal thing all over and restart

jonsca

lol clusterf***

user20683

@Skippy a rather special type of candy

Skippy

@AshleyNunn what happens to all the existing Q&A ? can they be merged with a new beta?

user20683

@Skippy You have to go repropose them on Area 51

Skippy

2:32 AM

@WorldEngineer thnx world

user15026

@Skippy They are kept and can be accessed in a question dump, but I have no idea if they would be merged into the new beta. I doubt it, as the problematic content was part of the whole reason it got closed

jonsca

@Skippy See the urban dictionary lol

user15026

It was a pretty big mess of things just not working out

Skippy

@WorldEngineer yeh, I read somewhere that the original beta was kept if the site was ever resurrected

@AshleyNunn oh :( if you want to go another round, I'll support it, but don't know much.. I can ask questions

user20683

@Skippy Library Science is a fairly specialized subject. The site suffered from people not understanding what it actually is and is not.

Skippy

2:35 AM

@jonsca ooh I like it!

user15026

@WorldEngineer That was definitely part of it

Skippy

@WorldEngineer naughty! telling me it's candy :P

user15026

@Skippy He is a terrible man :P

Skippy

@WorldEngineer hmmm what is it?

user20683

@Skippy The science of managing and cataloging information.

Skippy

2:36 AM

@AshleyNunn evil sending me into the world with profanities (it's not like I don't know any :P)

user15026

@WorldEngineer That is better than the like....paragraph and a half I was typing....

Skippy

@WorldEngineer hmm maybe the world is not ready for it, but it will be

user15026

(I get really excited about library stuff.....)

user15026

@Skippy Maybe someday :)

user20683

@Skippy Maybe, maybe not. Not everything fits well/has a large enough audience to work on SE

Skippy

2:37 AM

@AshleyNunn omg we are so alike! I can't cut to the chase.. it's so annoying and then someone comes along and sumamries in three words

@WorldEngineer well resurrect, and this time you guys go in seeing the pitfalls..

user15026

@Skippy It is worse when I get excited about stuff, like I am about LIS

user15026

(Library and Information Science)

user20683

@Skippy Not necessarily

jonsca

I read your mind and went back in time to recreate it

12

Libraries and Information Sciences

Proposed Q&A site for library and information science professionals, researchers, and LIS students who have industry-specific questions about information gathering, storage and retrieval, both digital and traditional as well as promotion of library services and spaces.

Currently in definition.

user20683

it would require enough people to sign on and gain momentum. It's much harder than you think.

Skippy

2:39 AM

@AshleyNunn I know it's so cute.. I wish my kids would get excited about libraries or any reltaed aspect

@WorldEngineer Yeh I have an idea, sigh

user15026

@Skippy Yeah, books are huge for me, I love reading and being read to and all to that

Skippy

6

Q: Why do people persist in creating duplicate or subset proposals rather than supporting pre-existing proposals?

My observation of the Stack Exchange (SE) Beta Sites, is they need as much consolidated support from user to get them launched, up and out of Beta. Many fail. Once a site has become a thriving success, as the established SE sites people can then consider the wisdom of proposing more specified sub...

area51-meta proposal-scope valid-proposal

@AshleyNunn me too, I need to go to the optometrist though :)

@wor ^^ read my Q on area 51 , I do get it

user15026

@Skippy Ah, fair enough

user20683

@Skippy Cog Sci != Neuroscience != Psych

user20683

at all

Skippy

2:44 AM

@AshleyNunn I read online (which is not good for vision). as I can increased page sizes, eventually there won't be a laptop with a screen big enough to fit one of my letters on

jonsca

@WorldEngineer Ah, but on SE, that's the way it's worked out

Skippy

@WorldEngineer they are subsets and the Q is regarding how hard it is to get sites out of beta

jonsca

Yes, the name is not correct. Yes, we've debated it to no end

user20683

@Skippy Hardness is arbitrary, SE refuses to reveal their precise criteria.

user15026

@WorldEngineer Neurosci = shit that keeps me alive cogsci = shit that keeps me happy psych = stuff that attempts to explain my neuroatypicality

2

Skippy

2:45 AM

@jonsca agreed, that's the definition of Cognitive Sciences btw I hate that title

user20683

@jonsca Welcome to the great Programmers debate.

user20683

We should be Software Engineering or Development

user20683

since that's the site focus

Skippy

@WorldEngineer what do you mean by that?

user20683

causes non-native speakers no end of trouble

user15026

2:45 AM

@WorldEngineer With good reason I think

jonsca

Crap, because I wanted to find out my favorite programmer's soda, but I was a couple of years too late

Skippy

@AshleyNunn hahahahhahaha you should answer some questions!

user20683

@jonsca I don't think any of the Programmers mods drink soda...

jonsca

Well, I'll settle for figuring out how to set up my 3 monitors in a programming friendly way

Skippy

@WorldEngineer that's the problem, the site is good at programming and the Q&A there can be quality controlled, but there's a lack of experts on some of the other sites (like a famine)

@AshleyNunn I was meaning I loved your way of explaining it, it made me laugh.. funny enough it's the area I should've stayed in, but I got bored.. believe it or bot programming is more of a challenge

user15026

2:49 AM

(Message deleted because I revealed more medical history than I decided I liked)

Skippy

@wor SE refuses to reveal their precise criteria what do you mean by this?

user20683

@Skippy They won't tell people exactly what will allow a site to graduate.

Skippy

@WorldEngineer the problem ism the area 51 minmums cannot be applied across all sites.

a Q&A rate on pets would be diff to LIS or cogsci

user15026

@Skippy I suspect that those numbers aren't the only thing they look at.

user20683

@Skippy Feel free to bring it up. SE will not care.

user15026

2:52 AM

@WorldEngineer Oh, blunt, but true

user20683

They just won't. They will happily ignore me or you or anyone else.

user15026

They have their ways of doing stuff and it obviously works, look at the giiiiiiaaaaaaant network of THINGS AND STUFF

Skippy

@AshleyNunn ;) I do that all the time and just leave it there as some sort of "i dont'care thing- the interntet has taken over our freedom" kind of objection

user20683

@Skippy What freedom? Your freedom exists solely at the discretion of your government as does mine.

Skippy

@WorldEngineer this is very interesting and much of the casue of my frustration with Stack Exchange..

user15026

2:54 AM

@Skippy It's not that, entirely, I just have a varied and complex history I dont feel like explaining tonight.

Skippy

@WorldEngineer totally agree.. it's an illusion and there's no point in deleting anything in cyberspace,as it's still there

user15026

@WorldEngineer ....... :(

Skippy

@AshleyNunn and you don't have to.. and join the club

@wor the problem is, Stack Exchange wants these sites and is lacking some fundamental basics which I find disappointing.

user20683

@AshleyNunn Bear in mind that I live in a police state.

user15026

@WorldEngineer Come to Canada we have cookies

user20683

2:55 AM

@AshleyNunn Tempting

Skippy

There is not point asking for an expert site and then letting the masses and popular opinion run the site (as in the current SE wet up of votes etc)

@WorldEngineer where do you live?

@AshleyNunn everything I hear about Canada is good

user15026

@Skippy I live here it must be good ;)

Skippy

@AshleyNunn of course :)

user20683

@Skippy Still better than what Reddit or Yahoo Answers has. Here's an idea, go start your own thing.

Skippy

@AshleyNunn the internet has cookies ;)

user15026

2:58 AM

@Skippy haha mine are tastier and often have chocolate chips

Skippy

@WorldEngineer true much better.. I have thought about starting a blog.. but I couldn't be bothered and I upset too many people, so it wouldn't end well :P

@AshleyNunn now I crave chocolate

user20683

@Skippy Upset people...That sounds like the perfect recipe for a blog.

user20683

I mean Ann Coulter totally does that

Skippy

@WorldEngineer hahahah

user15026

I would make brownies but then I would have to do a whackload of dishes

Skippy

3:00 AM

@AshleyNunn oh I love brownies, so does my son.. he makes them himself!

@wor where are you fomr?

user20683

United States

Skippy

@WorldEngineer one interestng thing about the US, is its almost like a bunch of mini countries within one, there's so much diversity between states

Skippy

3:18 AM

Omg someone tagged one off topic question with the WRONG tag!!! the world is coming to an end!!!

6

Q: What should I consider when deciding to purchase pet insurance?

What factors should I consider when deciding whether to purchase pet insurance?

health

there are so many bigger issues that need to be addressed on the site, than removing the reptile tag, the pet-insurance tag.. can people go and review some of the answers posted??

user15026

I don't think it is a terrible tag. The question could work, maybe, i think. I mean how do you tag something like that, really, anyhow?

user15026

@Skippy I dunno, I think any attempt to edit and make site content better is good.

user15026

Or to ask about how something should be done

user15026

It is all about making the internet a better place. :)

Skippy

4 hours ago, by jonsca

@Skippy I think having quotes are fine as long as it's not the entire answer (and yes, I'm familiar with your style from CogSci, and in general I think it's fine there as well). I think people are micromanaging the site a bit too much. Certain things need to be nipped in the bud (like blind, malicious plagiarism), but other things can be cleaned up later (like extra tags, marginal answers, etc.).

@jon sumes it up when he refers to the site being micromanaged. Seriously it's just exhausting and people need to use some logic

user20683

3:28 AM

@Skippy Take a deep breath, you're gonna give yourself high blood pressure.

user20683

The site's gonna be fine.

user20683

Programmers was so, so much worse than this.

Skippy

@WorldEngineer seriously I agree. I have a java assignment, I will go and do that

user20683

and this isn't even bad

Skippy

@WorldEngineer I can imagine, I have heard rumors.

user20683

3:29 AM

@Skippy Worse than the rumors

user20683

:)

user20683

bye

Skippy

@WorldEngineer lol

@wor I may be on Stack Overflow or Code Review later today :P

you never know, even Programmers

user20683

@Skippy Just keep in mind the site scopes, they are vigorously enforced.

Skippy

4:22 AM

6

Q: What signs should I look for in my children to know they are ready for a pet

My children are rapidly approaching the age in which they will start becoming responsible enough to manage a pet on their own, and my wife and I want to encourage this to help teach them the responsibility of caring for someone else, and to place someone else's needs before their own. However th...

children

6

Q: What should I consider when deciding to purchase pet insurance?

What factors should I consider when deciding whether to purchase pet insurance?

health

-3

Q: Which dog breeds are the most suitable for families with small children?

Are some dog breeds better than others for families with small children? What is it about these breeds that makes them more suitable?

dogs children

user15026

Why are you posting these here

user20683

I am curious as to the same thing. Context please.

Skippy

-4

Q: Can I give my cat human medicine?

Is it safe for me to use human medicine on my cat? Are there occasions where it is OK to give my cat human medications?

cats health medicines

2

Q: Can I give human medicine to chickens?

My dad used to medicate our non-livestock chickens with human drugs by dosing their water supply. We have medicated using ampicillin, vitamin C capsules, and sometimes multivitamins. The chickens have never reacted negatively to the medication. According to Can I use human medicine on dogs?, so...

health chickens medicines

Curious a range of closed questions

and a great discrepancy in votes

user15026

There is no way to explain why people vote how they do

Skippy

I am wondering why

yes, but it is necessary to evaluate these things, if we to understand what works and doesn't work for the site

I honestly think much of this has to do with the author of the post, rather than the quality of the post. In which case, unpopular authors are best to refrain from posting, as it's counterproductive for effort put in and results of what the community wants.

anyway, I'll go off site for a while and study

user15026

4:27 AM

@Skippy Uh....a) unproveable, b) unenforceable

user15026

and like....I think a small subset of questions does not valid data make

Skippy

oh and why my attention keeps being drawn to these things, is I keep getting downvotes for posts that are old and haven't been bumped and I don't see this happening to other people's posts

user20683

@Skippy Curious...

user20683

Perhaps even inexplicable...

user20683

I do wonder...

Skippy

4:29 AM

@AshleyNunn it goes way beyond that.. but I don't want want to go into it. tried on meta, and keep getting downvoted.

@WorldEngineer I had a downvoted post on meta that went into this a bit mre.. the effort of a researched anser having the same or less vote than answers with two lines (literally)

user20683

@Skippy Meta downvotes are different

2

user20683

They indicate disagreement not quality

Skippy

I have deleted these meta posts, as every attempt I make to bring this up, is npt addressed

@WorldEngineer I understand that, by downvotes, I mean people are not interested in reviewing this (on meta)

user15026

@Skippy I am not sure that is a correct assumption

2

user20683

@Skippy Perhaps it is not seen as a problem.

2

Skippy

4:32 AM

@WorldEngineer it is for me, I'm wasting my time researching and makeing effort to answer Qs when someone's two lined answer gets more votes, meaning this is what the community wants.

@AshleyNunn I'm too meticulous, don't force me to provide statistical evidence, I might after I've handed in my assignment

user15026

@Skippy It is not something you can prove, first of all - you cannot definitively say why people vote unless they expressly tell you

Skippy

@WorldEngineer I've gone through this site with a fine tooth comb and am despondent about what the community values in answers at times.. and it's too commin

user20683

@Skippy No one is forcing you to stay here. I think you've valuable things to say but if that's how you feel then perhaps a hiatus might be a good idea.

Skippy

@AshleyNunn a voting trend can easily be proven by statistics Ashley

user15026

and also, like.....remember, this is just one tiny internet place, with a lot of people with a lot of opinions, and sometimes, we just wont ever know why they think the way they do

user20683

4:34 AM

@Skippy No, there's no such thing as statistical "proof", only correlations.

user15026

@Skippy A trend in downvotes or upvotes, yes, and we have systems for that, but not a trend or an explanation clearly for WHY people don't like particular questions or naswers

user20683

correlation != causation. Stats 101

user15026

if there is something fishy going on in your votes, either teh script will catch it and reverse it, or you can bring it up on meta or in a flag for mod attention, etc

Skippy

@WorldEngineer I think so. Do not misunderstand, it is not the issue of my popularity, but the issue of what content is valued on the site.. and whether or not the time and effort into contributing to a site that values some of these answers I've seen upvoted, is the question

@AshleyNunn it's nothing fishy at all it's an indication of wha tthe community values

@WorldEngineer yeh, I don't want to get into an argument over semantics, I'm not a statistical expert, so using laymans words.. I mean it can be demonstrated what type of posts the community prefers

user15026

@Skippy It could be the style, the content, it's Wednesday, etc

Skippy

4:38 AM

@AshleyNunn Wednesday? lol now I'm confused

Please don't misuderstand.. It's a bit dejecting to see what the community wants and values.. I am not complaining about my own rep (how on earth could I?) the issue is how posts are voted and the possible reasons why, coupled with the notion that some answers seem more popular than others and serisouly, some of answers that are upvoted, it's a really poor indictment of the standards that are being set in private beta.

It will only continue in this line when it goes public. Unless we get some experts here

I am disappointed that's all

there's a lot of good stuff here and people with a lot to offer

there is a lot of mediocre posts being upvoted, and I don't see how that adds value to the internet

some of the two liner answers are in a stream and offer little difference than some forum formats

I'm expressing disappointment is all

I was hoping for more

user15026

No network site's content is going to be perfect, but we try the best we can :)

Skippy

10

Q: Putting a cat into a carrier

It seems to be close to impossible to put my cat into a carrier. I'm not sure whether he is afraid of closed spaces or doesn't like being restrained or what, but it requires two people to put him into a carrier. What can I do to make it easier on my cat and me to get him in the carrier?

cats behavior

One answer consists of one sentence (1.5 lines) and has a score of 3

user15026

Because three people thought that info was valuable.

user15026

remember, they may have also upvoted other answers on that as well

Skippy

an for the record, I have no issues with some of my post being downvoted, I have issues with other similar quality posts being upvoted

user15026

5:06 AM

It can entirely be completely different people doing all of that voting

user20683

Sympathy upvotes are a thing

user20683

there is no stopping them

user15026

And it might not even be that!

Precious Tijesunimi

6:38 AM

@Skippy Congratulations!!!!

Skippy

11:14 AM

Do we seriously want a pooping tag? The most upvoted tag for cr@p and it's assoc synonyms is [tag;feces]. I retagged the pooping posts and the OP is very attached to his pooping tag...

pets.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/pooping

17

Q: Should we clean up "pooping" and "droppings"?

We have tags for pooping and droppings. These seem to be the same bucket of questions; should there be a synonym here? If so in which direction? I'm not sure how I feel about "poop" as a tag name.

discussion tag-synonyms

Skippy

12:30 PM

I think this answer has to much content from a single source and possibly violates copyright law. As @psubsee2003 points out the majority of the content is from one source. — James Jenkins 6 mins ago

In response to this

4

Q: Why are onions dangerous for my cat or dog?

Someone advised me not to feed my cat or dog foods with garlic, onion and some other regular household food, as it is bad for my cat and can make my cat sick. Is this true, how would it make my cat sick?

dogs cats health diet

serisouly if you people don't want me here, just say so and don't nitpick on things. It's f****** ridiculous

And I cited three references that I drew my info from.. It seems if I had of answered

onions are bad for your pet and you shouldn't give them human food with onion it would have been well received. I swear to God, I

am going to ask a diamond mod to post one of my answers, I bet you it get 4 times the votes a typical answer I post gets, lots of compliments and no negative feedback.

jonsca

12:52 PM

I think people get a little freaked out by self-answered questions, and I'm not sure why, they are certainly welcomed on the network (and the means for asking them is built into the UI!)

3

Skippy

2:59 PM

@jonsca I think so, it was meant well, to give the site some results on a google search, when it goes public. I know ti doesn't matter, it was given this extra week, I thought it would give us a chance to really launch well.. But you know me, I gotta calm down and not get so involved.. I don't know why I get so worked up.. when I'm one tracked on a mission, I get like this.. (in this case a mission to lauch)

user15026

4:46 PM

@Skippy As someone who knows a lot about copyright stuff, you aren't actually doing anything wrong in that particular sense.

jonsca

I didn't think so either, that's why I was incensed with the comment. If that were true, we'd have to delete 3/4 of the answers on Bio and CogSci

user15026

Yeah, pretty much

jonsca

Either way, even if it were plagiarism, the post should have been flagged, rather than the user confronted directly. We all know each other, but it could seriously inflame a situation with someone new to SE or the site.

user15026

Yeah, most definitely. Calling people out is a nasty thing to do

Skippy

5:11 PM

@AshleyNunn thnx Ashley :)

@jonsca and thnx Jonsca.

I really appreciate it guys.

night all very late here

jonsca

Don't worry so much about the launch, either, the CMs should be back online next week

(this coming week, I should say)

18

A: Are we missing anything to end the Private Beta?

Just a brief administrative note: We typically do our private beta evaluation just about now, but the entire Community Team is in New York this week for a Summit meeting. The site seems to be doing well overall, but the evaluations and related activities are being deferred until next week when w...

Monica Cellio

6:47 PM

@Skippy self-answered questions are quite legitimate on SE, but they do have a higher bar for many voters. That in combination with your voluminous posting may be deterring some people; it can look like rep-hunting. (Obviously I am not saying anything about why people vote the way they do in this case, as you can never know why people vote.) Relax and let other people ask and answer questions; you are not personally responsible for the initial, pre-launch content.

Skippy

11:29 PM

@MonicaCellio bit offensive. what type of moron do you take me for? ;) Glad you pointed out I wasn't solely responsible for the content here. Oh, so it IS a community... hm then why did I keep asking the community what they thought about posts and hm... even asking people (like I asked you) to stop having prolonged debate over petty isses (ie one tag on one question) and to perhaps review content and em... even contribute..

11 hours ago, by jonsca

I think people get a little freaked out by self-answered questions, and I'm not sure why, they are certainly welcomed on the network (and the means for asking them is built into the UI!)

^^^ @jon sums it up beautifully.

If a site is desgined and encoursges self answered Q

pets.stackexchange.com/help/self-answer

Blog - Stack Exchange: It’s OK to Ask and Answer Your Own Questions

Jeff Atwood on July 01, 2011

The FAQ has contained one key bit of advice from the very beginning:

It’s also perfectly fine to ask and answer your own question, as long as you pretend you’re on Jeopardy! — phrase it in the form of a question.

So …

if you have a question that you already know the answer to

if you’d like to document it in public so others (including yourself) can find it later

it is OK to ask, and answer, your own question on a relevant Stack Exchange site.

To be crystal clear, it is not merely OK to ask and answer your own question, it is explicitly encouraged. …

Why on earth would the user with the highest rep here, by 700 rep points! be rep hunting?

As for the volume of my posts, yes I can imagine people can be put off

If they were volumes of mindless garbage, I could see people have reason to complain

Are they @mon volumes of poor quality posts? Or do they add the the site?

user15026

@skippy I think you need to remember we aren't trying to attack each other here, just helping as best we can

Skippy

on Cognitive Sciences out most prolific user has posted 304 times, the second most 130 times. I have not hear anyone criticize the top users volume of posting

Relax and let other people ask and answer questions; you are not personally responsible for the initial, pre-launch content.

user15026

You seem a little intense sometimes, I think.

Skippy

@AshleyNunn ^^ this is a personal comment. I do not like being spoken to like I am a complete moron.. perhaps the volume of my posting is indicative that erm.. maybe I'm intelligent and capable, with a good grasp of the content matter, rather than an imbecile who feels solely responsible for the site

@AshleyNunn and some people here seem ignorant at times, I don't think, I am sure, there are also some highly intelligent people, with good knowledge of some of the subjects matters.. not particpating in chat often enough.

user15026

@Skippy Calling people things like ignorant and the like is not going to make people feel comfortable talking to you about issues.

Skippy

11:40 PM

@AshleyNunn don't lecture me that people aren't trying to attack me and then publicly attack me

user15026

@Skippy Intensity is not an attack, it is usually a reflection of passion for something, which you totally have here! You are totally passionate about this site, which is totally awesome.

Skippy

@AshleyNunn I suggest you back track and see who opened the door to this type of slanging match.. I am merely illustrating the effects of your comment. Calling someone intense doens't make them feel comfortable coming here and talking about things

user15026

@Skippy I didn't mean to offend you, I was just trying to indicate why people might feel uncomfortable, because they don't have the same passion as you do, or think about things the same way, so it might be overwhelming at times.

user15026

Neither behaviour is good or bad, they just are.

Skippy

@AshleyNunn omg please, don't turn a criticism into a praise, it's just irritating/ The best thing you can do, is drop it. One thing I am not tolerating here is being patronised

user15026

11:43 PM

@Skippy I was never criticizing you, I was actually just pointing out the difference between how you approach the site and how other people might.

Skippy

@AshleyNunn I am so glad you pointed this out, having no knowledge or reflection upon how the human mind works, I would have been endlessly ignorant.

I don't want to continue

user15026

@Skippy Fair enough, I apologize that my attempt at help went so badly.

Skippy

But if people want to chime in, and argue semantics, I'm not going to sit back and be talked to like I'm a child, by people, many years, sometimes decades younger than me.

And before people hike off and go that doesn't give you the right.. ask yourself, with age comes experience, does this count for anything

user15026

@Skippy We all come from a range of experiences, so we all have different stuff to offer. I was just trying to express that.

Transcript for