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verbose
verbose
4:29 AM
@Bookworm Real places in the HNQ
 
3 hours later…
verbose
verbose
7:19 AM
@Bookworm Murderous Macbeth in the HNQ
 
2 hours later…
Mithical
Mithical
9:12 AM
@verbose Those Macbeth questions keep getting HNQed.
 
3 hours later…
Mithical
Mithical
11:48 AM
@Bookworm Please don't VTC spam, just flag it.
 
3 hours later…
Bookworm
Bookworm
2:20 PM
0
Q: Using euphemistic words, is it a feather in a cap or wasting reader's time?

SaravanaRecently, I came across a friend who called his sister a crazy girl just because, she uses "I mean", "What I try to convey is?" as precursors in her conversations. For long, I thought those are niche substances and adds beauty to one's conversations. Take for instance, Salman Rushdie's novels. Mo...

salman-rushdie
 
1 hour later…
Tsundoku
Tsundoku
3:39 PM
People who don't see that Macbeth had thought about murdering Duncan before seeing his wife again are suffering from a kind of cognitive dissonance, trying to hold on to the opposite idea. The clues are just too clear.
I don't share Matt Thrower's rosy-tinted view of Macbeth as a tragic hero. It's plainly wrong.
Gareth Rees
Gareth Rees
4:04 PM
@Bookworm This seems like a reasonable question but OP could have presented it better. I've done my best to rescue it
Tsundoku
Tsundoku
4:57 PM
"These are not the words of someone who wanted to patiently wait until Duncan's death" - This is immediately after he has been named the Thane of Cawdor without taking any action such as killing the previous holder of that title. Wouldn't a more natural interpretation of those lines be that since he was granted the Cawdor title "without my stir", the title of king may fall into his posession in the same way? I don't see how those lines don't mean "I may become king the same way I became the thane of Cawdor - without doing anything". — Mithical ♦ 8 hours ago
There is something I don't understand about this comment. If "without my stir" is an argument against the thesis that Macbeth had considered murdering Duncan before I.5, does that mean "without my stir" means something else than "without murdering Duncan"? If it does not mean that, does it mean "without violence"? Does "stir" refer to a different kind of action?
Mithical
Mithical
@Tsundoku I read it as being equivalent to "without lifting a finger" - i.e. doing nothing but waiting. The title of Thane of Cawdor was given to him without any effort on his part, and so, if "chance will have me king", then chance can do the same with the title of king - "without my stir". ("stir" meaning to move.)
Tsundoku
Tsundoku
That makes it sound very innocuous. If he had no violence in mind, how do you explain his strong emotional reaction, the mention of "horrible imaginings" etc?
'"stir" meaning to move': But what is "move" a euphemism for?
Mithical
Mithical
@Tsundoku I don't think it entirely rules out that he had violence in mind, but that those are the wrong lines to use to support that he does. If anything, the "without my stir" lines, coming after the "...whose murder yet is but fantastical" bit, show an internal debate in Macbeth's mind; he does initially consider violence, and then changes his mind, thinking that it may happen without any effort on his part, and has to be convinced again by Lady Macbeth.
That would more or less be my answer to my own question, if I were to write one up ;)
Tsundoku
Tsundoku
"he does initially consider violence": and that violence is not murder?
After all, the "legal" way of becoming king was not open to him, by his own admission.
Mithical
Mithical
5:14 PM
@Tsundoku Not sure where that's coming from. It most likely is; "Whose horrid image doth unfix my hair [...] against the use of nature? My thought, whose murder yet is but fantastical" displays that he is considering "horrid" acts (i.e. murder); he then changes his mind, declaring "Chance may crown me without my stir" - it may come to pass in the same way as the Cawdor title - and then has to be convinced again to actually undertake the assassination.
I just think that using the "Chance may crown me" lines as proof that he was considering murder is the mistake.
Tsundoku
Tsundoku
'that he is considering "horrid" acts (i.e. murder)': so now you are saying he had considered murder. That seems to be what you were asking. Your question was not whether he had decided to murder Duncan, but whether he had considered it. And that appears to be the case.
Mithical
Mithical
@Tsundoku That is indeed what I was asking. I now have an opinion on the answer, based on the answers received and further studying the text. :)
Tsundoku
Tsundoku
Excellent.
 
3 hours later…
Bookworm
Bookworm
8:28 PM
0
Q: Why does Mr. Fogg set out on his trip around the world in 80 days?

MithicalIn Jules Verne's Around the World in Eighty Days, Mr. Phileas Fogg, the main protagonist, interrupts his exact routine and sets off for a journey around the world, with 20,000 pounds on the line if he fails to complete that task. Stuart, whose turn it was to deal, gathered them up, and went on: "...

jules-verne around-the-world-in-eighty-days
verbose
verbose
8:49 PM
@Tsundoku The comment I made was simply agreeing with @Mithical that quoting "chance may crown me king / without my stir," then immediately saying those are not words showing Macbeth is willing to be patient, is a non-sequitur. The rest of your argument is fine.
Gareth Rees
Gareth Rees
9:27 PM
@Bookworm This is still racking up down- and close-votes. It would be helpful if the voters could explain what changes they want. Is it the opening sentence that's the problem? This is personal motivation, useful to understand where the OP is coming from, so not something I want to just remove.
verbose
verbose
9:51 PM
@GarethRees It's opinion-based to ask whether periphrasis "is a feather in the writer's cap or wasting reader's time." If the question asked what purposes periphrasis serves in this specific passage, or how it has been received, or whether there have been any critical studies of Rushdie's use of periphrasis, fine. But as asked, the question seems really subjective.
OP isn't even asking specifically about Shalimar, he's asking whether padding in general is a good thing. If you want to revise the question further to remove the introduction (which tells us that the motivation is not specific) and change the concluding question (which solicits opinions), fine, but that would be a very different question from what OP is asking.
 
1 hour later…
verbose
verbose
11:25 PM
@Bookworm Hey @Randal'Thor, we need you to weigh in. You're the only 20k+ rep user who has yet to be involved with this question.

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