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12:24 AM
@Randal'Thor I don't think "text" = "written document"; see 8a in Merriam-Webster. That's how it's typically used in literary studies.
 
12:36 AM
I edited the tag wiki excerpt and full tag wiki to clarify that oral-to-textual transitions are part of the tag's scope
 
12:47 AM
@Tsundoku Thanks for sharing. Interesting read. I tend to find Marvell difficult. I should give it another shot; the only poem I know well is "To His Coy Mistress," the only one I've not found difficult.
 
12:58 AM
0
Q: Dostoevsky avoiding censorship

Daniel WalkerIn the opening paragraph of "Crime and Punishment", two locations are mentioned only by first and final letter; the rest of the words are replaced with underlines. My translation has a footnote that said Dostoevsky refrained from using the actual names because of censorship. What sort of censor...

 
 
1 hour later…
2:27 AM
If a certain crown was planning to, say, ask a question about sign language literature and/or write up a topic challenge proposal, what language tags would the crown use?
Would we want to distinguish between e.g. ASL and BSL?
 
@bobble good question. I have no idea.
 
2:55 AM
0
Q: "Switched off at the main" phrase meaning

ZenBerryI've encountered the following phrase in a Geeves and Wooster book: He had been beaming like a searchlight until I mentioned this aspect of the matter, and the radiance suddenly disappeared as if it had been switched off at the main. I'm trying to guess the meaning of the phrase "at the main" h...

 
 
2 hours later…
4:52 AM
(Puzzling answer is completed, and the "Sexophonists" answer is next on my mental list.)
 
 
4 hours later…
9:06 AM
quiet in here innit
 
LOUD NOISES
@Tsundoku Mm, I don't know. Most of it is actually relevant to the question, like where the text can be found (online or in print). The first paragraph could be removed. The last set of bullet points is a list of example questions, so after verbose has posted all of them as actual questions, we can remove that section too :-)
@verbose Good then. And I see you've edited the tag wiki excerpt to cover oral literature too, so everything is solved and we have two more questions to tag .
Oh, you mentioned that in the next chat message. Silly me reading one by one.
@bobble Yes, ASL and BSL are not mutually intelligible.
 
9:24 AM
we now have three (count 'em, three) questions of which I'm aware that are basically the same unanswered question which has a pretty boring answer.
 
9:43 AM
@Randal'Thor And I added yet another answer listing the questions that might need a tag, so there :P
 
1
Q: What's the first appearance of the rhyme about "He died defending his right of way"?

A. B.There's a little poem that goes something like this: "Here lies the body of Thomas Grey, Who died defending his right of way. He was perfectly right as he sped along, But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong". Looking up this poem reveals many versions, with any number of variations on the nam...

 
@Bookworm oh yeah this one also needs both and . I added it to the list in this answer
 
10:07 AM
@Randal'Thor ... I wasn't actually planning to post the sample questions as actual questions?
@Randal'Thor I think I disagree with you about the fingerprint question. The material aspects of a given edition, such as its illustrations, cover art, etc. are part of a work's textual history, I believe. The sample questions in both the meta answer and the tag wiki do include "Were there illustrations? How were they used?"
 
10:59 AM
@verbose I was half-joking, but seriously, if they're good/interesting questions about the topic of the challenge, why not actually post them?
@verbose Doesn't "history" imply some changes, though? Like how a story passed from oral to written form, or manuscript to printed, or differences between editions. Not things like just "what does this illustration mean?"
 
 
2 hours later…
@CowperKettle I used to have a book light which was much more compact, just clipped on to the page.
Can't find any pictures of that model online, but something vaguely like this (only flatter and broader, spreading the light more widely, and sitting closer to the page):
 
@Randal'Thor I switched to reading books from the screen in mid-zeroes.
It was way cheaper, because English-language books cost an arm and a leg.
I read the first 3 or 4 books of Harry Potter on a CRT monitor, attached to Acer Mate 33 with 486 DX2-66 and 12 MB RAM
 
1:21 PM
@Randal'Thor and , then?
 
@bobble I suppose so. Does the tag character limit allow the full unabbreviated names?
Mar 24 at 20:50, by Rand al'Thor
@Tsundoku I'm trying to get through things in a careful order of progression: finish writing new audience-specific texts for SFF's custom close reasons (it's a learning curve for me), then do the same for Lit's existing custom close reason, then start a meta on the proposed new custom close reason.
@Tsundoku Some new progress in my to-do list :-)
 
0
Q: Audience-specific texts for our "recommendation request" custom close reason

Rand al'ThorLast year (2020) saw some changes to the question closure system across the SE network. One of the changes was to introduce audience-specific texts for custom close reasons, so that the OP, close voters, privileged users, and the general public can all get slightly different versions of the same ...

 
Ey, just under.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:08 PM
0
Q: Did Leonardo da Vinci really say this quote about flight?

Rand al'ThorThe following quote is frequently attributed by the internet to the famous 15th-16th century polymath Leonardo da Vinci: Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return. It's well known...

 
4:33 PM
Noooo I clicked on my reputation tab :-(
That 40k figure is going to go to zero now.
 
no one but you can see that
What does the (29) after your helpful-flag number mean?
 
I know, but I'm one of those weird people who spends years not clicking their reputation tab, to let the number grow.
On SFF it's at 92k.
 
Having any sort of hanging notification would irk me
 
@bobble Number of declined flags. (Mods can see that figure on everyone's profile.)
 
Also, seems like your latest meta post is affected by this meta-meta bug report
 
4:36 PM
@bobble I don't think of it as a notification, since it's only visible from my own user page. I do check my global SE inbox and rep dropdown.
@bobble Not necessarily: the "featured on meta" box is one of the most heavily cached things on all of SE. Give it a day or two before expecting a new meta post to appear there.
 
What does the orange 5 next to "Mod" mean?
 
bobble's curiosity about mod tools is aroused
@bobble Number of my posts which have been helpfully flagged.
 
must learn how all the things work
I managed to poke a mod in the Lair a while back to see how the flag-handling interface looked
 
For the record, 4 of those 5 are from me flagging my own posts, asking mods for tag synonymisation or comment undeletion.
The 5th was a closure flag on one of my early questions which ended up closed and deleted.
must not get bobble addicted to main meta
 
'tis too late
I visit nearly every day
 
4:42 PM
You don't have an account there.
 
Don't need one to read or edit
 
If you had one, I suspect you'd be sucked in very quickly.
You're probably one of the people who can best understand why I don't have an account on the private SO Team for moderators.
It's a pain sometimes as I can't even see posts there, and need to ask CMs for screenshots when they post important mod announcements and stuff.
Most other mods can't get why I don't just create an SO account and join the Team.
 
But if you did, you'd feel obligated to be active and keep up to date on everything?
 
But then I'd feel more tempted to vote/comment/participate on MSO discussions, and would probably spend a lot of time on posting in the mod Team too.
I imagine the Team has a lot of questions from newbie mods which I could probably answer, or a lot of discussions where I might want to add my 2p.
There's already enough SE sites taking time out of my life, thankyouverymuch.
 
SE replaced my casual gaming habit, so I already had a chunk of time to devote to it.
 
4:49 PM
@bobble Not exactly obligated, just ... more places where I'd feel I have something to say/contribute.
 
5:16 PM
The topic challenge proposal I wrote up for sign language literature has 4 links at the end: the ASL literature Wikipedia page, an ASL-BSL poetry festival's website (for lots of poetry/analysis), a website with videos/translations of more poetry and folk tales etc., and a Tsundoku-bait introductory textbook on the subject. Anything else that would be useful? (Obviously I've also written a little blurb at the start about why it's interesting)
 
Sounds like you've already got a lot of useful info.
 
What are the chances Tsundoku would buy the Tsundoku-bait textbook? :P
posted D: first time making a topic challenge suggestion!
 
0
A: New Literature SE Topic Challenge Suggestions Thread

bobbleSign language literature There is a thriving community of folks who produce literature in sign language. Some of the same elements of "regular" literature are present, such as repetition, symbolism, a kind of "rhyme" for poetry, etc. However the fact that humans are performing the literature, wit...

 
Upvoted!
I'm sort of surprised that user111 never discussed sign language as part of his scope-stretching exercises here :-)
Seems like a really interesting topic challenge to learn more about less mainstream parts of literature.
 
5:33 PM
A possible concern is, since we don't have video embedding, any questions would have to make do with an English text translation in the question itself, which loses important meaning.
 
I just looked at the meta post about the and I agree with Verbose's answer
 
a tree!
 
5:49 PM
@PrinceNorthLæraðr answers? :-)
 
Oh, true
I meant his main answer
 
@bobble Mm, I think we can ask SE to enable video embedding for the site if there's enough support for it.
Other SE sites, like SFF and M&TV, have it.
 
A large part of their content is visual, though
 
@bobble done
 
hello dearest mith
 
5:58 PM
\o
 
 
1 hour later…
8:17 PM
@bobble Sign languages aren't based on the spoken languages of the country or area where they are spoken. That's why ASL and BSL are unrelated. ASL developed from (a) French sign language.
(I just taught this to me HCI students this week.)
 
My question was more about whether we would want to disambiguate sign languages at all, but I realized that was a silly question later.
 
Well, most people don't know that there are different sign languages or in what way they differ.
Until the early 90s there were four different sign languages in Flanders alone, until users of those languages agreed to harmonise things.
Sign language avatars are also language specific.
 
I have one excellent book where the two child protagonists, both of whom are fluent in different but related sign languages, are forced to learn to communicate entirely by signing - which of course leads to compromising over whose signs to use for which words etc. (side plot, but I found it just as interesting as the main plot)
 
Here is an example of a sign language avatar telling a story in ASL: youtube.com/watch?v=oUclQ10BsH8. Unfortunately, VCom3D appears to have discontinued work on it.
@bobble Oh, do you have the title of that book?
 
hmm, let me go hunting through my shelf
 
8:25 PM
There is International Sign (without "language" at the end of its name), which is sometimes used at conferences, but it is more a vocabulary than a fully developed language, it seems.
 
Huh, can't find it on a quick search through the downstairs book-shelves. Time to Google.
 
@Tsundoku Is that kind of like the Esperanto of sign languages?
 
Museum of Theives. Child protagonists Goldie and Toadspit.
 
Used to cross language barriers but not a "first" sign language for anyone.
 
It has a very strong message of the folly of trying to control everything, and that some wildness is important for childhood and life in general
 
8:30 PM
@Randal'Thor I don't know enough about to to say whether the comparison holds. Esperanto is a fully developed language, though.
 
Are all fully developed sign languages "constructed", or did some of them evolve naturally like most spoken languages did?
 
@bobble *Thieves
 
I assume that they evolved naturally. The fact that the use of sign language was at some time prohibited in the education of deaf children also seems to speak against the theory that they were constructed.
 
@bobble It's a good thing that there is a sample chapter.
 
8:44 PM
I'm not sure what that was supposed to mean
 
@bobble The Tsundoku-bait?
 
Yes, I got you were referring to that. I wasn't sure what the implication was of you message, however.
 
@bobble makes sense here.
@bobble It is not worded as a question about the name's significance.
 
Would apply?
 
It would apply to the question. (Even though the answers suggests something else.)
 

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