The Reading Room

2:20 AM

@Tsundoku Looks good, except I'd wonder about "incident" as a motif. I definitely would not put it first among the list of possible motifs, as the tag wiki for theme currently does. The tag wiki for motif, which specifies "kind of incident," is better. Also, objects can be motifs—if powder puffs show up in several houses in a novel, I'd start wondering what's going on with powder puffs in that novel.

@bobble Congratulations! 🎉 On the second acceptance, I mean, not on the broken brain.

Alex

@verbose Broken brains deserve congratulations too.

verbose

@Alex k

verbose

2:40 AM

@Alex thanks for the upvote. I just revised that answer to put the punchline first.

bobble

5:02 AM

So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night

verbose

@bobble g'nite @bobble

Bookworm

6:17 AM

0

Q: "If you walk long enough." -Lewis Carroll (Alice in wonder land)

My friend and I got into conversation about the following passage from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland: “Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?" "That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat. "I don’t much care where--" said Alice. "Then it doesn’t...

verbose

8:29 AM

Hey @Tsundoku these arrived today:

Thoughts: (1) Good editions of the works (2) Good introductions and commentary (3) It is advisable to buy both volumes; the Companion has much critical apparatus that refers back directly to the Works.

Minuses? (1) The Works volume is very heavy. The Companion is about half the number of pages. (2) Print is tiny. I wish they had just incorporated the apparatus that's in the Companion (e.g., textual notes) alongside the specific work to which it belongs, and divided the whole thing into two or three equal volumes.

Finally, I bought these in paperback. I would recommend hardcover if that option is affordable.

Also, the Works does include Macbeth and Timon, but the editors explain that the reason is that the Middleton scenes make more sense in context rather than presented individually. At least for Macbeth, the Middleton scenes are typographically distinct from the Shakespeare ones.

I hope the Middleton topic challenge does get enough votes some day.

Bookworm

9:14 AM

0

Q: What does "skimmish" mean, in this eye dialect?

This is perhaps a surprising instalment in my sequence of Watership Down questions, being about human dialect and nothing to do with rabbits at all. Of course, it comes from the chapter "Dea ex Machina": "Why don' you do somethin' sensible," he said, "'stead o' bidin' there 'ollerin' and carryin...

meaning richard-adams watership-down

Rand al'Thor

9:31 AM

Only nine people have more than 100 posts here. Currently, the highest counts of Q or A are: Tsundoku A (444), Rand Q (411), Gareth A (387), Rand A (382), Tsundoku Q (222), EJoshuaS Q (204), verbose A (165), Mith Q (159), Matt A (117), Spagirl A (114), Knight Q (99).

b_jonas

10:13 AM

@Randal'Thor @Tsundoku I need a bit of help about the Os Lusíadas topic challenge announcement literature.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1515/139 . I want it to link to the texts at pt.wikisource.org/wiki/Os_Lus%C3%ADadas and en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Lusiads_(tr._Mickle) , but the post currently says “Below is Tsundoku's original presentation” so I can't just trivially edit it into the list

Note that that English text is incomplete, only has the first four chapters.

But I think at least the portugese text would be worth to link, because it's plain HTML pages rather than archive.org's OCRed layouted text.

Ah wait, you linked to the original text on Project Gutenberg, which is also plain HTML, so it's not much of a difference. Then maybe we don't need those links.

Tsundoku

@b_jonas Feel free to change the text to "Below is Tsundoku's original presentation with a few updates" and edit the text directly. (The alternative is adding text below the original presentation.)

b_jonas

Ok.

Do we have a tag for questions about real world geography as referenced in fiction works, such as literature.stackexchange.com/q/2329/139 ? I'm asking a question like that.

Tsundoku

We don't have anything more specific than setting.

@verbose On the OUP page for Works, the only options I see are paperback and e-book.

@verbose And it's the same for the companion volume (which I plan to buy anyway).

verbose

10:28 AM

@Tsundoku oh that's sad. The copyright page for Works says, "First published 2007, first published in paperback 2010*. Similarly the Companion says, "First published 2007, first published in paperback 2013*. Maybe the hardbacks are OOP? Checking on Amazon (which I know you don't like), the hardcovers are available only used or, if new, at ridiculous prices (over $400) from third party sellers.

Tsundoku

That must have been a small print run, then. Go figure.

b_jonas

@Tsundoku I'll try to see if there's more than two such questions, and if so I might add a tag.

oh wow, we have a lot

https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/1758/139 "Is The Lord of the Flies set on a real island?" https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/11936/139 "Which London streets mentioned in Doyle's Sherlock Holmes stories are fictional?" https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/5917/139 "
Where is Momo set?"

I think we should create a tag

verbose

How would that tag differ from setting?

b_jonas

but I'll wait a bit for chat's feedback

Tsundoku

Creating a tag for every setting or location would be a bit over the top, wouldn't it? Does anybody specialise in stories set in specific locations?

verbose

10:35 AM

@Tsundoku Maybe look around for a used hardback in good condition? The books should last a long time (good paper quality, etc) so the hardback would be an advantage I think. My complete Chaucer is in paperback, my compleat Shakespeares (I have multiple) in hardback.

b_jonas

I thought it was more narrow, but it looks like most [tag:setting] questions do ask about this or something closely related. There are exceptions: https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/10829/139 "
Can the social commentary in “Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas” be applied to the present?" https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/9064/139 "What date does 'Ender's Game' take place?" https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/11818/139 "In what year do the events of The Giver take place?"

verbose

@b_jonas yeah we'd've to retag a bunch of setting questions and I don't know that if I were to have it in mind to ask such a question, I'd think of geography; setting would come to mind.

b_jonas

literature.stackexchange.com/q/730/139 "When do the events in The Valley of Fear take place?" literature.stackexchange.com/q/2349/139 "Do Holmes and Challenger coinhabit the same fictional world?"

Tsundoku

@verbose I bought the original Norton Shakespeare (Greenblatt & co) as a student and never read a single play in it. But I'll see if I can find a hardback Middleton. (No luck on Buchfreund.de, though.)

verbose

@Tsundoku This is apparently the first edition of Middleton's collected works that includes his masques, pageants, occasional poems, etc., so I don't think there's an equivalent hardbound Middleton in an alternative edition. The paperback is fine, there's nothing wrong with it (except for its being really heavy and the print being tiny) so I'm probably just fussing too much

(and the tiny print probably won't bother you as much as it does me; I'm an old man, remember.)

(and in any case the hardback would also have tiny print.)

Tsundoku

10:44 AM

Amazon UK has a hardcover edition Collected Works "from £150.00" (used). But I don't buy from Amazon, let alone Amazon UK.

verbose

@Tsundoku Can you even buy from Amazon.uk post Brexit?

Tsundoku

"Please Note: Price shown includes UK VAT. If your shipping address is outside UK, VAT may vary or an import fee deposit may be collected at checkout." So yes, but you will bleed for it.

What a win for the UK :-P

verbose

I suppose you could go to Ireland, get to Belfast since there are no border controls on the island, then buy the book there, and then smuggle it back to Germany.

Tsundoku

I'd rather not smuggle in a Covid-19 infection by travelling now.

verbose

I actually have no idea how the island of Ireland works post-Brexit. I think there's no passport or customs control between Northern Ireland and the Republic, and the border is in the Irish Sea, but I'm really not sure. I was following the discussion closely last year, but then I sorta got wrapped up in the US election and now I've lost track. Is Ireland reunified at last?

Yeah, I got two texts the same day regarding COVID. The first said, "You're now eligible for the vaccine!" The second said, "Due to a supply crunch, we have no appointments available for the vaccine!" Sigh.

I want my Fauci ouchie, dammit

Tsundoku

10:51 AM

Post-Brexit (although Brexit isn't really over yet, based on recent news), the UK has even more reason to hold on to every bit of real estate it has outside Britain.

verbose

wait, what recent news?

Tsundoku

There was something about the EU accusing the UK of not respecting part of the Brexit deal.

verbose

oh

How is Gibraltar doing? Do they have to go through passport control now? That must suck

Bookworm

0

Q: Where is St. Lawrence island in Africa, mentioned in Os Lusíadas

Os Lusíadas chapter 1 verse 42 mentions a certain Saint Lawrence island in Africa. But this name doesn't seem to be used in modern times. What island or other geographical location does this refer to? The relevant text from the original Portugese is: Cortava o mar a gente belicosa, Já lá da b...

setting the-lusiads luis-vaz-de-camoes

verbose

Like, I'm not even sure Barbary apes have the mental capacity to understand stuff like passports and border controls

Tsundoku

10:54 AM

I believe Gibraltar narrowly avoided a hard Brexit. They couldn't afford to monkey about, I guess.

> Goats and monkeys.

b_jonas

@verbose :57376697 I think it has a few British soldiers besides the barbary apes.

Tsundoku

11:14 AM

@verbose I think I have not yet shared this Thomas Middleton link.

verbose

@Tsundoku ooh nice. There's another collection: The Selected Plays of Thomas Middleton, edited by David L Frost

if you wanna add it to your list

And Five Plays edited by Loughrey and Taylor for Penguin Classics

Sorry I know you loathe Amazon but it's the easiest place to find that the book exists

and then go buy it elsewhere

Tsundoku

@verbose Funny that that edition wasn't on my list, since I own a copy of it. I have added it now.

verbose

@b_jonas So tempted to say, "eh, same difference," but I won't, coz I don't want to upset Randolph and the other pommies on here. :D

verbose

11:36 AM

@Tsundoku Yes, it has A Mad World, My Masters which the Penguin Classics edition doesn't have. If you want to add the list of plays that the Penguin Classics edition has to your page: A Trick to Catch the Old One, The Revenger's Tragedy, A Chaste Maid in Cheapside, Women Beware Women, and The Changeling.

Tsundoku

11:47 AM

Thanks. Done.

verbose

yeah so the eight plays I had prior to purchasing the Collected Works were the five in the Penguin, A Mad World from Frost, the stand-alone Regents Michaelmas Term, and A Game at Chess in an anthology of Renaissance drama

I just noticed that your page doesn't list the Regents Michaelmas Term:

Middleton, Thomas. Michaelmas Term. Ed. Richard Levin. Regents Renaissance Drama Series, gen. ed. Cyrus Hoy, advisory ed. G. E. Bentley. Lincoln, NE: U of Nebraska P, 1966.

139 pages

dunno whether it's still in print

Rand al'Thor

12:46 PM

@b_jonas I love that type of question (and on SFF there is a geography-specific setting tag, real-location), but here different types of setting questions - geographical, temporal, etc. - are all lumped together into one tag. I'd guess the majority of setting questions here are about geographical settings, although there's a few about other types too.

@Tsundoku In theory yes, if they're familiar with those locations and would be able to recognise them from descriptions in books. (I agree that location-specific tags are unneeded though.)

Tsundoku

1:07 PM

@verbose That one's definitely out of print, but The Changeling in the same series is still listed on the U of Nebraska P website.

@Randal'Thor Do we have any location-identifiation-request questions? (Would they even be on topic?)

Rand al'Thor

1:20 PM

@verbose I'm not a British soldier :-)

@Tsundoku Sure, a whole load of them tagged as setting.

Steinbeck, Homer, Mary Gentle.

Tsundoku

Ah, yes, I see.

Rand al'Thor

I'd forgotten about What's the evidence for “Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde” being secretly set in Edinburgh?, but have now added it to my meta list of promised bounties.

b_jonas

1:58 PM

@Tsundoku I don't know, but some people do specialize in geography, so at least for books in real world Earth settings (as opposed to some fictional geography like Middle-Earth or wherever Game of Thrones is), there are specialists.

Also I think many of those questions are about the geography of Britain, which definitely has specialists.

Eng Lit Learner

2:40 PM

0

Q: "Fine, fine that" - meaning in a snippet (a story)

Reading a story by A. Blackwood: “Singular,yes, these last words of dying men,” the tall man was saying, “very singular. You remember Newman’s: ‘More light,’ wasn’t it?” The bookseller nodded. “Fine,” he said, “fine, that!” There was a pause. Mr, Jenkyn stooped lower over the pens. “This, too, w...

meaning meaning-in-context literature

Rand al'Thor

3:01 PM

@Bookworm This question might be one I'll have to leave without accepting an answer. Two different answers, both (IMHO) plausible and decently argued and supported with references, but the answers themselves are very different from each other.

bobble

3:29 PM

@verbose only got one ping from that :D

Bookworm

7:19 PM

0

Q: What might "And God, for a Frontier." mean in "I am afraid to own a Body—"?

Would some of you, gentle readers, help me in understanding of the second stanza of I am afraid to own a Body— by Emily Dickinson. Double Estate—entailed at pleasure Upon an unsuspecting Heir— Duke in a moment of Deathlessness And God, for a Frontier. This is my humble understanding of the stan...