The Reading Room

12:00 AM

Jorge Luis Borges was born on this day 121 years ago (24 August 1899).

Robert Herrick was born on 24 August 1591 but the English were still using the Julian calendar at the time, so I won't celebrate his birthday today.

Napoleon Wilson

Did you wait exactly for 0 UTC with that?

Tsundoku

I wish I could say that. I had only looked at the local time, CEST.

Napoleon Wilson

Well, then count yourself lucky you didn't post it a few seconds earlier.

Or let's all count ourselves lucky, since it was ultimately benefiting the integrity of this entire chatroom.

Tsundoku

A. S.Byatt, Paulo Coelho and Stephen Fry are also celebrating their birthday today.

Napoleon Wilson

My cousin is a Paulo Coelho enthusiast.

Tsundoku

12:07 AM

Australians will be saying why I waited so long to post those birthdays.

Napoleon Wilson

Not when they genuinely check the transcript and see it as the very first message of the day. That will make up for everything else.

Tsundoku

Sounds like an argument for not going to bed early. (Or for creating a bot that posts birthday reminders in the chatroom.)

Rand al'Thor

@Tsundoku It was securely on 75%, even above 75.0, a couple of weeks ago, but now it's around 74.5 again.

More excitingly, the QPD stat on Area 51 (moving 2-week average) went to 5.1 a couple of days ago. That's enough for "Okay" rather than "Needs Work" in the now-years-obsolete Area 51 scale, FWIW.

Tsundoku

I simply check the numbers on Area51, where the numbers are rounded to the nearest integer. We were at 73% until 17 February and reached 75% on 5 or 6 May.

Yes, I also noticed the increase in QPD.

Rand al'Thor

> I had rather have this tongue cut from my mouth
Than it should do offence to Michael Cassio

Shades of Mark Antony?

> I rather choose
To wrong the dead, to wrong myself and you,
Than would I wrong such honourable men!

(from memory, may not be fully correct)

Tsundoku

12:21 AM

“Immature poets imitate; mature poets recycle.”

Tsundoku

12:36 AM

@Randal'Thor Also, Antony repeats that Brutus is an honourable man, while at the same time providing arguments against Brutus's claim that Caesar was ambitious.

Bookworm

1:41 AM

0

Q: Why did Gimli think that Gandalf would sneak around their camp in the middle of the night, not say a word and scare away their horses?

I'm a quarter into The Two Towers. Just before Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli enter the Ent woods, they camp outside in the night as they suddenly see a sketchy, strange old man standing there, not saying a word. I've already forgotten the exact details, but he quickly disappears and they realize tha...

the-lord-of-the-rings

Rand al'Thor

8:19 AM

@Tsundoku Yes, the whole speech is a great case study of orator skills. Something which Shakespeare presumably knew well, given his ability to create words to captivate audiences in a different context.

Bookworm

8:40 AM

0

Q: Why does "it always turn out to be the King of Sweden"

In Reginald at the Theatre, Saki writes: [Reginald]: “There are certain fixed rules that one observes for one’s own comfort. For instance, never be flippantly rude to any inoffensive grey-bearded stranger that you may meet in pine forests or hotel smoking-rooms on the Continent. It always turns ...

meaning short-stories saki reginald

0

Q: What are Ibsen Dramas in particular mentioned in Reginald?

In Reginald on Besetting Sins: The Woman who told the Truth, Saki writes: [Reginald]: Children are given us to discourage our better emotions. That is why the stage, with all its efforts, can never be as artificial as life; even in an Ibsen drama one must reveal to the audience things that one ...

meaning short-stories saki reginald

Bookworm

9:05 AM

0

Q: Is there any evidence that Shakespeare studied or read classical rhetoric?

Several characters in Shakespeare's plays have strong skills in rhetoric and oration: for example, Mark Antony in the play Julius Caesar, who is able to sway the fickle populace of Rome from supporting the conspirators to hating them in a single speech. Shakespeare himself must have had some skil...

william-shakespeare

Bookworm

11:58 AM

0

Q: Which critic first claimed that Antigonus's dream was evidence of an earlier version of The Winter's Tale?

In an earlier question I asked, What evidence is there that Shakespeare revised The Winter's Tale after 1611? One of the arguments cited in the answer comes from Christopher Hardman's study Shakespeare: The Winter's Tale (Penguin Critical Studies. Penguin, 1988. Page 15): It has sometimes been s...

william-shakespeare the-winters-tale

Knight

1:51 PM

@EddieKal Hello

> Eructation of unhealthy souls
Into the faded air, the torpid

What can "the eructation of unhealthy souls" possibly mean? After contemplating on it for sometime, I came to conclusion that it could mean death, eructing of soul out of the body into the air (but how air can be faded?).

It's just about a single line in the poem, therefore I thought of not asking it on the main site.

Rand al'Thor

2:08 PM

A roombaed question that seems worth keeping.

@Knight Nothing wrong with a question about a single line of a poem.

Knight

Oh thanks Rand, I shall wait for Eddie else I will ask it there.

Eddie Kal

@Knight Hello! From Burnt Norton again?

I am not fully awake yet. I would suggest posting on the site and if I can make sense of the lines I will write an answer later today

Tsundoku

3:09 PM

"Not here the darkness, in this twittering world." (T. S. Eliot, Burnt Norton)

@Knight Eructation means belching. According to T. S. Eliot and the crisis of meaning, the lines are "a haunting evocation of commuters travelling by tube to work".

The metro belches forth the commuters.

Knight

3:50 PM

@Tsundoku Really? I took Eructation = Eruption.

How in such a serious poem one could talk of belching?

Tsundoku

4:08 PM

@Knight (1) There is no reason why a serious poem cannot mention belching. (2) Eliot wasn't always serious. He was an avid reader of detective novels and the author of Old Possum's Books of Practical Cats (which the musical Cats is based on).

North Læraðr

burp

Tsundoku

^ This is not serious literature, though.

North Læraðr

burps in disagreement

Joking lol I have no idea what you're talking about

Knight

Maybe

Tsundoku

Maybe what?

Eddie Kal

4:11 PM

@Knight I don't think "belching" necessarily makes the tone un-serious

Knight

@Tsundoku :)

Eddie Kal

Off the top of my head I can't think of any examples, but I am sure we could find poetry that talks about "spewing people out"

Knight

@EddieKal But it doesn't make that formal sense as other lines.

North Læraðr

@EddieKal Ooh I can quote the Bible

In Revelations God talks about how he'll "spit out" or lit. vomit as a metaphor

Eddie Kal

@NorthLæraðr Go for it. Scripture quoting is fun.

North Læraðr

4:13 PM

Let me see find the exact verse

Hold on grabbing my Greek Bible

Revelations 3:16 "So, because you are lukewarm - neither hot nor cold - I am about to spit you out of my mouth"

The Greek word for "spit" is hemesai (I think that's the transliteration), which literally means to "vomit"

Eddie Kal

@NorthLæraðr There you go.

Great example

North Læraðr

It's not poetry, but it's an extended metaphor

I gotta get to class, but I'm pretty sure I can find examples from Psalms as well, which is actual poetry

Tsundoku

And then there's the whale that spit out Jonah.

North Læraðr

True, though that's more of a story

Knight

Let me make this clear, I always believe and agree with @Tsundoku sir's analysis and his replies. I'm just presenting my own thoughts on what he said (i got the feeling that he could be in humorous mood)

North Læraðr

4:18 PM

@Knight Lol

Tsundoku

Belching is obviously not a lofty subject for a poem, which may explain why Eliot chose the more unusual word "eructation", which, as far as I know, comes from the medical world and thereby retains the poem's seriousness.

Knight

So, what it could mean for an unhealthy soul to belch?

North Læraðr

@Tsundoku So the "not serious literature" comment was to my burp statement

Knight

Unhealthy in what sense?

Tsundoku

It's the unhealthy souls that are being belched out by the metro.

Knight

4:23 PM

Metro? train?

how they entered the poem from nowhere?

Tsundoku

I assume they entered by metro, but where from, I have no idea. ;-)

North Læraðr

@Tsundoku What

Eddie Kal

@Tsundoku My understanding of Knight's question is "How did they (metro or train) enter the poem?"

"They" referring to trains

Tsundoku

@Knight In the article I referenced earlier, the author makes a connection with The Waste Land, especially the "Unreal City" section: "A crowd flowed over London Bridge, so many, / I had not thought death had undone so many."

Reading the "eructation" lines from Burnt Norton as referring to the metro is a plausible way of making sense of them. I don't know if there are other plausible explanations.

Knight

@EddieKal Yes

Tsundoku

4:37 PM

@EddieKal I was joking; hence the ;-).

Knight

@Tsundoku Are you reading I sing my body electric?

North Læraðr

lol

Wat

whatever

Tsundoku

@Knight I'm not a fan of Walt Whitman. I find he sounds too pompous.

Knight

He mentioned that parodical part also, so I thought to make everything crystal clear :)

Eddie Kal

I don't think my brain is functioning. I need my morning Maxim (coffee). I've been meaning to respond to some messages here from the day before yesterday.

Knight

4:42 PM

Okay, I will make a main site post in a cosmetic way

:) it will look fresh

Bookworm

4:54 PM

1

Q: Is there a Reader's Guide to Hunchback of Notre Dame?

I (well, currently my wife, but I plan to as well) am trying to read Victor Hugo's Hunchback of Notre Dame in a beautiful faux-suede edition that we received as a gift. However, there are various references to French history and the like that would be nice to understand, plus an untranslated Gree...

french-literature victor-hugo the-hunchback-of-notre-dame

Tsundoku

5:44 PM

@Knight About your question What authors/poets try to convey when they use antitheses or things similar to it?: "I’m looking for instances where the use of antitheses is self-evident and the context demands its use": I'm not sure this is answerable. Also, lists of examples are strictly speaking off topic.

In addition, "what they [the authors] actually have in their mind?" is also unanswerable since that is a black box.

Knight

"Also, lists of examples are strictly ..." are you referring to my examples?

Or the examples that answer may contain

Tsundoku

@Knight You explicitly ask for instances. That's what I mean by "list of examples".

Knight

I'm sorry but I'm finding a little difficult to understand. List of examples will be off-topic? Can you please show me an example of it?

Tsundoku

It asks for an open-ended list; that is generally frowned upon on SE, just like recommendation questions.

Knight

oh okay

"what they [the authors] actually have in their mind?" and this will make it "opinion-based", right?

Tsundoku

5:52 PM

@Knight It's not opinion-based but unknowable.

Knight

Yes

But generally when we ask "what they had in mind?" we mean "what you think they had in mind?'

Tsundoku

I don't think we ask that type of question here. Interpretation is about what the text means, not about what the author intended.

Eddie Kal

@Randal'Thor I finally got around to reading your linked discussion and its linked discussions. I appreciate it. Very interesting and helpful. I am glad to see the Star Trek question was eventually reopened and well received, and I find myself in total agreement in the way it was handled

Knight

Can't we say what we interpreted is what author intended?

Tsundoku

@Knight The same text can be interpreted in wildly different, and often contradictory, ways. It is highly unlikely that the author had every interpretation in mind that critics later come up with.

And many texts are anonymous. What does the author's intent mean then?

Eddie Kal

6:00 PM

@Randal'Thor But to be honest, and I feel safe being honest this moment, I don't think the Hermione sexual assault question was given careful consideration and serious research it deserved.

Knight

@Tsundoku I agree.

Eddie Kal

I have only read bits and pieces from the Harry Potter books. I have seen the movies but it was a while ago and I don't remember what the scene at issue is like. But I wonder if the question would have been better received if it had been "Is 'Hermione is sexually assulted by Draco' a possible interpretation?"

Knight

On 3rd September it's Doraemon's birthday.

Bookworm

0

Q: Understanding the meaning of "Eructation of unhealthy souls" in T.S. Eliot's Burnt Norton

In the third section of Burnt Norton we find these lines Eructation of unhealthy souls Into the faded air, the torpid Eructation have two meanings Belching Eruption So, if we take up the second meaning then "eructation of unhealthy souls" could mean death, that is soul is erupting out of the ...

meaning poetry t-s-eliot

Eddie Kal

@Randal'Thor I doubt such a question would have fared any better. How about a question about bestiality in Harry Potter?

Dumbledore’s Queer Ghost: Homosexuality and Its Heterosexual Afterlives in J. K. Rowling’s Harry Potter Novels P. 88

For this reason I think the Hermione question wasn't given its due credit. Of course the initial question had some terrible flaws but I understand where the question came from.

Eddie Kal

6:37 PM

@Randal'Thor Shame they are not here any more.

Eddie Kal

7:13 PM

@GarethRees I see. This makes sense. What I had in mind was a question like this one most likely came from a curious mind, but an instructor could also put it in an assignment. And a not-so-noble student who lighted upon this Q&A could totally turn Tsundoku's answer into a write-up and turn into as their assignment.

@Mithical I am hearing about this for the first time. Looks like an interesting project that resembles SE in a lot of ways.

@Knight So here is just one of the issues with defaulting to "he". Why "he"? Why not "she"? And to a lot of people either one is offensive.

Knight

@EddieKal Why they find it offensive?

Eddie Kal

@Knight Non-binary

Knight

Many friends of mine say that my voice sounds like a girl's soft voice on phone, but I don't take it offensive.

Bookworm

1

Q: How much time did one canto in Dante's Divine Comedy represent (if any)?

Dante's Divine comedy is divided up in Inferno (Hell), Purgatorio (Purgatory), and Paradiso (Paradise) – each of these consists of 33 cantos. Now I'm wondering if there is any indication about how long one canto would be, or if time exists in none, one off, or all of the cantiche? I know he start...

dante-alighieri

Bookworm

7:49 PM

0

Q: Did Jorge Borges write that it takes two to write a novel?

Did Jorge Borges say that all great literature is filled with ambiguities and obscurities? That it takes two people to write a novel, one the writer and the other the reader. If so, could you source it? Many thanks.

writing-process

Tsundoku

8:08 PM

@Knight (1) How would you react if they referred to you as "she"? (2) You are a sample of one. You can't expect the rest of the world to react in the same way as you do.

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