The Reading Room

12:28 AM

@Gallifreyan You just want your tag badge progress for the non-CW answer, don't you? ;-)

It doesn't matter though, since all answers that lead to successful challenges will probably end up deleted.

(At least, that's the way we've been doing it over on Puzzling.)

@Emrakul At the risk of starting another holy war ... I think all the very long discussion we had about CW a few weeks back was mainly about CW answers, and that SE says questions should "almost never" (whatever that means) be CW. The problem with a CW question is that it forces all answers to be CW, whether they want to be or not.

@Shokhet Definitely.

@Mithrandir So you don't want to hear about integration of holomorphic complex functions around keyhole contours using the residue theorem?

Rand al'Thor

1:05 AM

1

A: Can I ask about Sherlock Holmes books?

Not here ... As other answers have already pointed out, pretty much none of the Sherlock Holmes have any science fiction or fantasy elements whatsoever, making them firmly off-topic for this site. ... but on Literature! On the newly created (around two months old) Literature SE, Sherlock Holme...

^ plug for Lit on SFF

Riker

hey I know that asker

cool

Rand al'Thor

Very quick acceptance too!

16 seconds, wow.

That's hardly enough time to click on and read the answer.

Riker

yah

helka's on PPCG almost 24/7

Rand al'Thor

Oh, Helka Homba is the former Calvin's Hobbies?

Pretty sure I've met him on Puzzling.

Yep.

Also, +1 for a username inspired by Lord of the Rings and Watership Down.

Riker

@Randal'Thor yeah

Hamlet

1:32 AM

@BESW if you don't propose it I will :)

Rand al'Thor

@Hamlet I'm considering proposing Sergei Lukyanenko's Watch series for a topic challenge, on the grounds that it's a non-English work (with a good translation into English), but I'm not really sure how popular it is, either in Russia or in the English-speaking world. DVK and I seem to be the only ones around here who know the series, but we might not be a representative sample.

It's also fantasy, which you at least didn't want to see in topic challenges. But Watch questions tend to go quite unnoticed over on SFF, for whatever that's worth - again, pretty much just me and DVK participating.

Ugh. I want to improve my answer to the Twain question and also post a meta inspired by it, but both will have to wait.

user15026

@Randal'Thor I know of it, have plans to read it, just haven't yet

Rand al'Thor

@Ash Do. It's really good.

I very rarely find a book which appeals to me on a moral level, but the portrayal of Light Ones and Dark Ones, and the way our perception of them changes over the course of the books, is very well done and fascinating.

It's also very Russian.

user61230

@Randal'Thor [shrug] The truth is, I don't really actually give a crap whether it's CW or not. It's meta, it doesn't matter anyway.

user61230

If people really want it to not be CW, I'd be happy to change it back.

user15026

1:46 AM

@Randal'Thor I'm not sure if you mean that as a reason I should or shouldn't. I took a lot of Russian language in university, along with some Russian lit and Russian culture stuff :)

Rand al'Thor

@Ash Neither: it was just a comment (and, from me, something of a compliment). But if you already know a fair bit about Russian culture, that will only add to your appreciation of the Watch series.

user15026

@Randal'Thor Awesomesauce :)

user15026

Right now I'm reading a romance novel but the first Night Watch book is on my ereader, so I will get to it sooner rather than later :)

user15026

(I've read 108 books this year so far)

2

user61230

@Ash Dear lord, how do you have time?

user15026

1:53 AM

I read 800+ wpm, and I read a lot. :)

HDE 226868

@Ash In 2017, or over the past 365 days?

user15026

@HDE226868 Since January 1st

HDE 226868

@Ash . . . Wow.

Rand al'Thor

@Ash Wow.

user61230

Tell me your secrets, O Ash. [pricks myself on the blood-altar]

user15026

1:54 AM

This should hopefully list everything I've read

Rand al'Thor

@Ash Ask more questions about them! :-)

user15026

Crap, nope, only works for me when I am signed in

user15026

Hm.

user15026

Ah, there we go, that works

Hamlet

@Randal'Thor definitely sounds interesting. My hesitation is that we already have one Russian book challenge that's been highly upvoted: I would probably prefer to focus on another region for now.

user15026

1:55 AM

@Randal'Thor A lot of them so far haven't really prompted questions but I should noodle on it some

Rand al'Thor

@Hamlet Yeah, that's another reason I'm holding back. I guess I'll keep it in reserve and maybe post it at a later date.

Hamlet

FYI if you didn't see Ash's link here it is: goodreads.com/user_challenges/6987377

user15026

(Fair warning, some of those are erotica. Just as a heads up.)

user61230

I need to know how you reach 800 wpm, though.

Hamlet

@Emrakul speed reading, I'm guessing. I've tried it but I always get tired.

user15026

2:01 AM

I've always read really fast since I was a kid

Hamlet

@Ash advice?

user61230

Do you experience any noticeable drop in content comprehension at high speeds?

user15026

I don't know how I do it, I just do

user15026

@Emrakul I read at the same speed all the time.

user15026

I don't do anything special, I've never like trained for it

user15026

2:01 AM

I just read

user61230

Huh. Quick question: do you have a voice in your head reading words as you read them?

Hamlet

@Emrakul you could try this: tim.blog/2009/07/30/speed-reading-and-accelerated-learning

@Emrakul I would be shocked if Ash does

user15026

@Emrakul Sometimes

user15026

It depends on the book.

Rand al'Thor

How does one measure one's wpm?

I'm curious now about what mine is.

user61230

2:03 AM

@Randal'Thor Reading speed tests online will do it.

Rand al'Thor

Hey, would that be an on-topic question for the site?

user61230

I passively read ~300-400, and around 400-500 if I'm trying to read something quickly (when I've had enough sleep).

Rand al'Thor

It's about reading skills, which is kiiiiiind of about appreciating literature?

Hamlet

@Randal'Thor in my mind, no. The productivity stack exchange is a better place. And they probably already have a question about it

Rand al'Thor

@Emrakul What is this "sleep" of which you speak?

user61230

2:04 AM

@Randal'Thor About four hours.

user61230

Here's a minimalist reading speed test.

Rand al'Thor

in Mos Eisley, Dec 13 '16 at 19:28, by Rand al'Thor

Jun 25 at 11:34, by MannlyMann

@steelerfan sleep is for the week

user15026

900 words, 85% comprehension according to that test

user61230

510 wpm, 100% comprehension

user61230

900 is insane, esp. on a computer

Rand al'Thor

2:13 AM

@Emrakul Eh. I get 345 wpm (and 82% comprehension), but a) I'm tired, it's past 2am, and b) that text is not the easiest to read - dry and full of figures and statistics. I could feel myself reading a lot slower than normal.

user61230

@Randal'Thor That's reasonable. 2 AM isn't a great time to take a cognitive processing test.

Rand al'Thor

I'll try again with a different test some time when I'm more awake.

user61230

Makes sense!

Rand al'Thor

> Research shows that reading is around 25% slower from a computer screen than from paper.

Really? Why?

I would've guessed that I'm faster at reading from a screen than paper, at least these days after all my practice on SE.

user61230

Possibly sans serif. Sans fonts are harder to distinguish.

Napoleon Wilson

2:59 AM

That sounds pretty reasonable. It seems way more comfortable to read from paper.

BESW

3:45 AM

2016 Tiptree Awards.

Gallifreyan

5:28 AM

@BESW we have a course called "Physics for Poets", based on the book of the same name

amazon.com/Physics-Poets-Robert-March/dp/0072472170

user15026

5:58 AM

@BESW and now I have added more things to my to read list..

BESW

6:24 AM

@Ash bweheheheh.

user15026

Also I started Digger tonight, it's absolutely fantastic so far. I'm only 75 pages in, but I'm having fun.

BESW

Yey!

Mick

9:55 AM

Should vague ramblings written on loo rolls be on-topic? Just askin'.

Mithrandir

Yes.

Feb 13 at 9:35, by BESW

If a napkin scrawl question is otherwise answerable, the napkin don't matter to me.

BESW

11:50 AM

Hah, I'm epigrammatic.

Rand al'Thor

12:19 PM

Mos Eisley is having a movie night for Starship Troopers this Saturday. Thought people here might be interested, even if the film is not really based on the book. If you're interested in attending, you can register here or just turn up on the night.

2

@Hamlet Do we need two pinned messages about how meta >> chat?

doppelgreener

1:31 PM

@Randal'Thor it might help drive the point home. :D

@Gallifreyan Apparently right now on here, George Orwell is the most asked about author, and 1984 is the most asked about book.

Napoleon Wilson

2:18 PM

Unsurprisingly.

Hamlet

3:40 PM

@BESW ugh, we really need help with our reading challenge. Most people are interpreting it as "obscure scifi from a western country that's not English speaking", which doesn't really fix the underlying problem the reading challenge is trying to address.

Gallifreyan

3:51 PM

@Hamlet WHAT DID YOU SAY?

What's wrong with meta? Can't reach it

Ah, now I see. They're moving. Most inconvenient.

DVK-on-Ahch-To

4:08 PM

@Randal'Thor There's at least 2 more interested users on SFF. And I suspect @Gallifreyan might be interested in The Watches

Hamlet

@Gallifreyan I said "ugh, we really need help with our reading challenge. Most people are interpreting it as "obscure scifi from a western country that's not English speaking", which doesn't really fix the underlying problem the reading challenge is trying to address."

@Gallifreyan I think the challenge you proposed is a good one, and I upvoted it

Gallifreyan

@DVK-on-Ahch-To you're here! Valorum is in Mos! It must be Christmas!

DVK-on-Ahch-To

Quiz: what's your record (how long since you started) for a book you have STARTED reading, didn't finish reading, but genuinely intend to finish reading at some point

3

Gallifreyan

@Hamlet Didn't it have ~9 upvotes? I didn't see any negative comments either

Hamlet

But I think most of the subsequent challenges aren't very creative

DVK-on-Ahch-To

4:10 PM

@Gallifreyan It feels like Chrstmas weather wise. I feel like that squirrel from Ice Age (i haven't actually watched the movie, but I like it on general principles because it makes me think of @steelersquirrel)

Hamlet

@Gallifreyan I literally just said "I think the challenge you proposed is a good one, and I upvoted it"

Gallifreyan

@DVK-on-Ahch-To I want to read them after everyone pinned the films, but I genuinely don't have the time

Hamlet

@DVK-on-Ahch-To probably 10 years (the book is the bible)

Gallifreyan

@Hamlet I know! :) Thank you for that. I just didn't see any interpretations yet, neither in chat nor in comments

Hamlet

@Gallifreyan and had you let me finish, you would have heard me say "But I think most of the subsequent challenges aren't very creative"

DVK-on-Ahch-To

4:11 PM

@Hamlet OK, I should probably narrow this down to works that can be realistically read within a week. I don't think it's feasible to read entire Bible in under a year.

Hamlet

Which I stand by. It's good to have one "obscure scifi-style-book from a western country that's not English speaking", it's not good to have 10.

Gallifreyan

@Hamlet mine isn't creative, it's just the only book I could think of that is 1) translated to English and 2) isn't a well-known classic

I wanted to propose an O. Henry challenge, but I think everyone already knows about him

DVK-on-Ahch-To

@Randal'Thor - sorry, I'm definitely not in for your movie night. (1) IRL stuff usually prevents me from participating in most SFF ones given their typical scheduling; (2) I'm not showing up in Mos after Wad threatened me; (3) I can't stand The Bug Hunt: The Movie; as you can surmise from my SFF posts :)

Hamlet

@Gallifreyan you were the first person to propose an "obscure scifi-style-book from a western country that's not English speaking", therefore you are creative.

Gallifreyan

@Hamlet I like that logic

DVK-on-Ahch-To

4:15 PM

@Hamlet I though The Fastest Gun in the West is only applicable to SE rep; not to getting kudos on chat :)

Gallifreyan

Lemme propose the Witcher series and Alan Moore

Hamlet

@Gallifreyan in my mind, those are still "obscure scifi-style-book from a western country that's not English speaking" (I see fantasy as being very similar to scifi)

Matt Thrower

@Hamlet Just so you know, I've deleted that unsatisfactory answer. I think I'll refrain from answers until the question of whether references are required is resolved. I was under the impression that they weren't.

Gallifreyan

@Hamlet Alan Moore is from UK, if that is of any relevance

Mithrandir

4:36 PM

@DVK-on-Ahch-To A week.

Bookworm

1

Q: Is there any connection between the TombQuest books and the associated game?

Let us take the book series TombQuest, by Michael Northrop. This book series is published by Scholastic, and they have a website for it. This series is a multiplatform, which means that there is a game associated with it. Like the-39-clues (which is also a multiplatform). In that game, the connec...

Gallifreyan

5:03 PM

How to get 58 upvotes with 6 words:

58

A: How do I show my wounds to Robbie?

Take your clothes off, my dude.

Bookworm

0

Q: What is a Pooh?

Winnie the Pooh is our favorite ball of fluff that likes to eat honey in the Hundred-Acre Wood... but where does he get his name from? Specifically, where does "Pooh" come from? I know that Winnie comes from a real bear that was the pet/mascot of a Canadian Army that was named after Winnipeg tha...

name-significance a-a-milne winnie-the-pooh

Napoleon Wilson

@Hamlet May I ask then what is obscure enough for you?

Hamlet

5:19 PM

@NapoleonWilson I'm sorry, but when did I say that the problem with these books is that they aren't obscure enough?

The problem is that all of the proposed challenges are science fiction and fantasy books from western countries.

Mithrandir

Wooohooo!

The author retweeted my tweet about this question!

2

Napoleon Wilson

@Hamlet Never, I guess. I'll reformulate my question into "What kinds of works do you expect then?".

Mithrandir

We have our first question on Literature Stack Exchange about #TombQuest, by @mdnorthrop! Do you know the answer? http://literature.stackexchange.com/q/2079/58

Tweeted by tombquestwiki on March 16, 2017 at 4:29 PM

And the author retweeted it.

So maybe he'll come answer it now ;)

Hamlet

@NapoleonWilson I would like to see proposed topic challenges about a diverse group of genres and cultures.

Not a bunch of topic challenges about science fiction/fantasy books by western authors

Skooba

5:34 PM

@Bookworm if someone wants rep they can probably tugs on some strings here..... youtube.com/watch?v=1mgXbzJzIZE

Mithrandir

He was named after a swan.

Skooba

@Mithrandir Goog...*Good*... follow the rabbit hole...

Mithrandir

Don't, you'll get stuck...

> If you happen to have read another book about Christopher Robin, you may remember that he once had a swan (or the swan had Christopher Robin, I don't know which), and that he used to call this swan Pooh. That was a long time ago, and when we said good-bye, we took the name with us, as we didn't think the swan would want it any more. Well, when Edward Bear said that he wanted an exciting name all to himself, Christopher Robin, without stopping to think, that he was Winnie-the-Pooh. And he was.

Skooba

5:45 PM

3 views and 3 upvotes... thats a good rate of return :P

@Mithrandir what about the arms getting stuck and having to blow flies off his nose?

BESW

7:34 PM

@Hamlet [gasp] You mean the site's attempt to solve its diversity problem is running into trouble because of its diversity problem?

Hamlet

7:50 PM

@BESW it's a little disappointing, but I shouldn't be surprised.

I just thought that maybe, just maybe people would take time to understand what Emrakul was saying instead of just seeing "topic challenges" and ignoring the rest of his post.

@BESW what are some good Pasifika stories?

And I thought that maybe, just maybe, people would think critically about their constant diet of western science fiction and fantasy.

BESW

@Hamlet Not Moana. [wry]

Hamlet

@BESW duh

Gallifreyan

Oh come on, meta is still down

BESW

Welp, just posted a suggestion for Release the Sun.

Gallifreyan

@BESW you can use meta? I cna't access meta for some reason

BESW

8:01 PM

I'm special.

Hamlet

@BESW thanks, appreciate it

Mithrandir

@Gallifreyan some people can, some people can't. Try going directly to literature.meta.stackexchange.com

Gallifreyan

BESW

@Hamlet I'mo think about how to suggest Albert Wendt's works. He's a famous, respected, but increasingly controversial figure in Samoan literature.

(Mostly controversial just in the sense that his work decades ago paved the way for new writers who, in the process of building on his legacy, can see further and think more grandly than he could.)

@Hamlet What about an autobiographical account of a KGB agent's life and defection?

I feel like there'd be material for questions there, but I'm not sure exactly what.

Hmm. My Uncle Napoleon draws from the Persian well, but is sufficiently different, I think.

There's already a Story of Your Life question.

The SEA is Ours.

Mithrandir

8:24 PM

> Good question! (I often use the London gear from Book 2 & the flaming sword from Book 3 in the game.)

-author

BESW

Actually, @Hamlet, do you think The SEA is Ours qualifies for the challenge's goals?

It's an English-language anthology of steampunk stories by and about Southeast Asian folk.

ooh, Neither Wolf Nor Dog.

Hamlet

@BESW is it easily accessible (either online or through a library)

@BESW what about more recent Samoan authors?

Mithrandir

Should I ask the author to come write an answer here?

BESW

@Hamlet Amazon has it in Kindle and paperback.

Mithrandir

8:40 PM

mobile.twitter.com/mdnorthrop/status/842421935464157186

BESW

8:51 PM

@Hamlet Maybe some of these women? Most of the contemporary Pasifika authors I'm familiar with are unfortunately difficult to get access to outside of very localised publications.

It'd hardly be fair to suggest that people try to get their hands on a copy of a magazine issue with a single print run of less than 500 and no digital options.

Gallifreyan

9:08 PM

It turns out I couldn't go to meta because of HTTPS Everywhere plugin

Mithrandir

Ah, right. That's what they were saying in TL.

Gallifreyan

@Mithrandir I guess the plugin is useless now on SE anyway

Hamlet

9:44 PM

@BESW makes sense

BESW

The problem that most literature about Pacific Islanders isn't by Pacific Islanders is an ongoing one, though places like Samoa have been working to change it for a few decades longer than places like the Marianas.

(I live in the Marianas.)

To the best of my knowledge, for example, nobody --not even limited local press-- has published Peter Onedera's Nasarinu, a theatrical script portraying the Tumon leper colony.

I only know it exists because I saw it produced at the University of Guam Theatre.

user15026

10:11 PM

@DVK-on-Ahch-To That's a good question. I tend not to leave books unfinished, but now I am trying to think if I have anything that would fit that...

user15026

@BESW I really want to read that at some point :)

user15026

But I keep running out of book money because of your recommendations ;)

Rand al'Thor

10:52 PM

@Hamlet I'm not seeing that, tbh. I think once again you're worrying too much about something which is only seeming to be a problem for a short period - like that time not long ago when you were fretting about the site being overrun by ID questions because we'd had two or three in just a couple of days.

3

Don't worry, I have a few more topic challenge suggestions up my sleeve - better than Blake.

Including one author who ... well, I wouldn't be surprised if nobody else in this room a) has heard of him and b) can pronounce his name.

user15026

@Randal'Thor Now I'm curious :)

Rand al'Thor

@DVK-on-Ahch-To I've only started doing that recently. Until the last few years, I'd either finish a book or discard it altogether. Now I have a small pile of books I've set aside to possibly return to at some point, including Dostoevsky's The Idiot and Hardy's The Mayor of Casterbridge.

@Hamlet Agreed. (But you must be using a very unusual definition of "western" if you're calling Russia a western country.)

@DVK-on-Ahch-To Fair enough. But to point (2), I will say that Wad is not only no longer a RO of Mos but hardly even comes in there any more. I've only spoken to him about twice in the last several months.

Napoleon Wilson

Well, I guess it's "western" in the sense of that diffence between "established literature" and "stuff the "elites" deem inferior" that's discussed here so often.

Russian is certainly not too far away from the "treaded path of literature taught in western cultural elites", or not as far away as African, Oceanian or otherwise indigenous literature would be.

Rand al'Thor

@Gallifreyan joke?

@Hamlet Starred. That's the whole point of the topic challenges. But again, I don't think we're really having a problem with this (at least not yet).

@NapoleonWilson True.

Rand al'Thor

11:19 PM

@Ash The only trouble is, his works probably aren't going to be easy to get hold of :-/

user15026

@Randal'Thor I'm still curious though :)

Rand al'Thor

That's the spirit ;-)

user15026

I mean if you're not going to tell me, that's fine.

Rand al'Thor

I'm just going to let the suspense build up.

So that when I actually post it as a suggestion on meta, everyone will upvote it.

user15026

Sure.

Hamlet

11:35 PM

@Randal'Thor maybe I should wait. But it certainly seemed like the topic challenges were trending that way, and maybe this discussion will convince people to reverse course

Napoleon Wilson

@Randal'Thor Using meme's from things you haven't even seen? That's the true spirit of a Star Wars abstainer! ;-)

@Randal'Thor Or be disappointed by it underwhelming the expectations. "Oh, that guy? Meh, heard about all his stuff in school. And that name's totally spellable!" ;-P

Hamlet

@Randal'Thor I think I remember someone saying something about never finishing Wheel of Time

Rand al'Thor

@NapoleonWilson I just got it from Valorum's movie night announcement meta post.

@NapoleonWilson Or that. (But I said pronounce, not spell!)

Napoleon Wilson

@Hamlet That's the disadvantage of letting the community choose their challenges. Either you want to guide the site in a certain direction and thus select the topics yourself, or you let them vote on their stuff. Trying to guide them by telling them what the challenges should be about is a nice idea and a noble goal, but it doesn't guarantee the community doing the "right" thing.

Rand al'Thor

@Hamlet I'm still in the middle of it, yes.

@NapoleonWilson There's also no guarantee that the highest-voted topics will actually be picked for the challenges.

Napoleon Wilson

11:42 PM

I guess.

@Randal'Thor Ah, I see. But shouldn't that be even easier then?

Hamlet

@Randal'Thor I won't be selecting the challenges FYI

Rand al'Thor

@NapoleonWilson Some names are easier to spell than to pronounce. E.g. if they involve letters which are pronounced differently in that person's language from how you might expect.

Napoleon Wilson

Hmm, also true, I guess.

Rand al'Thor

Then there's names like Skrzypczyk which are hard either way, unless you're used to that kind of name.

Napoleon Wilson

Now I'm really pumped for that guy's weird name and unearthly oeuvre.

@Randal'Thor I'd say the trick is not worrying too much about all the consonants and just letting it flow, like scripchik, but that's more of a gut feeling that genuine knowledge about stuff like that. But once you leave away those vowels too, things are completely fair game for anyone not versed in that language.

Like Krk.

Rand al'Thor

11:50 PM

@NapoleonWilson Almost right. "Skzhip-chik" is closer; there's actually no "r" phoneme in there.

Napoleon Wilson

Hmm, that's indeed interesting. If anything I would have thought the "z" to be superfluous.

BESW

@Ash Newest book on my list is Neither Wolf nor Dog, which is notable as a white man's novel about Native Americans which was received well enough by First Tribes that it's been turned into a movie produced entirely by them and heralded as one of the first films to ever capture the contemporary Native American reality.

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