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12:10 AM
"This sentence has five words. Here are five more words..." #NationalWritingDay https://t.co/45Pn5IbYxW
 
12:57 AM
> You cannot hope
to bribe or twist,
thank God! the
British journalist.

But, seeing what
the man will do
unbribed, there's
no occasion to.
- Humbert Wolfe, "Over the Fire" from "The Uncelestial City" 1930
 
1:22 AM
“These hand-drawn pieces offer meticulous artificial wonderlands” Financial Times on #AnimeArchitecture… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877595821054676993
A neural network, trained on ancient proverbs, tries its hand at generating new ones. http://lewisandquark.tumblr.com/post/162097037117/ancient-wisdom-from-the-neural-network https://t.co/EdUijXLajp
 
user15026
@BESW I love all of the posts from this tumblr. They're fantastic.
 
Yup.
I may name an RPG character Hanger Dan.
 
user15026
I like Princess Pow, myself
 
1:38 AM
Oh, definitely. If I ever play a supers game, I will be Princess Pow.
@Shokhet See also The Manhattan Projects.
 
2:33 AM
One paragraph left in my close reading answer.
 
3:22 AM
And the close reading answer is complete!
@Randal'Thor @Shokhet @Gallifreyan @Mithrandir this answer is required reading. Like the concept of authorial intent, close reading will turbocharge the way you think and write about literature.
0
A: Why does the poem "Naming of Parts" contrast war with nature?

HamletThis question is best answered using a technique called close reading. What is close reading, and why is it important? Close reading isn't a hard concept to understand. It simply means reading something closely, i.e. paying careful attention to every word in a passage, and seeing how the exact wo...

I explain what close reading is, but even better, I give an example of close reading in action. I hope that this answer is clear, but if it isn't, please ping me or leave comments with questions.
You've all used close reading at some point in all of your answers. But you've never done close reading systematically, and you aren't aware of when you are using close reading and when you are not, nor are you aware of the differences between close reading and other forms of analysis. My hope is that by giving the concept a name ("close reading") and a definition, people will be aware of when close reading is necessary to answer a question and when it isn't.
@Randal'Thor it is particularly important that you take the time to practice doing close reading. Google is a powerful tool that can answer many different kinds of questions. But for many questions on this site, Google will come up short.
Close reading is a tool that can answer the questions Google can't answer. You need to understand what close reading is and you need to know how to do a close reading, so that (1) you understand when Google is appropriate and when it isn't, and (2) so you won't be left out of questions that can't be Googled.
Although my answer is long, my hope is that it isn't intimidating, and that it gives you all a tool that makes intimidating "literary analysis" questions answerable.
@BESW I would love your feedback on my close reading answer.
Anyway, I'm doing this because you all said that you wanted to learn to be experts, and that you didn't want to turn this site into a SFF but for books. I'm skeptical whether we can succeed, although we admittedly made progress with concepts such as authorial intent and the political, undefinable nature of literature.
Close reading is the next concept to master, and close reading is essential: you can't do anything literary analysis related without it.
 
3:40 AM
0
Q: Why does the poem "Naming of Parts" contrast war with nature?

HamletHenry Reed's poem "Naming of Parts" (which you can read online) depicts a lesson used to teach soldiers the various parts of their rifles. (Hence the title "Naming of Parts"). Interspersed between the description of the lesson is a description of a nearby field. For example, here is the first sta...

 
3:55 AM
-1
Q: Can you identify this story involving apple of wisdom

TheVillageIdiotI have read this story a long time ago. I remember some fragments like this: There is a young man travelling (maybe on a train). He starts talking to another passenger in same seat (or cabin). The other passenger has an apple. The young man wants the apple but stranger warns him that this is ...

 
 
2 hours later…
5:28 AM
0
Q: Books per school grade to read from public domain

Jeyhun NajafliWhere can I find the literature books for kids from public domain only (copyright free)? I am working with the team on Spelling Tests Online website and we wanted to add content for reading. It needs to be: Published before 1964 (copyright free) Relevant for reading to children from grade 1 to...

 
 
2 hours later…
7:04 AM
@Hamlet it's very good that you wrote the answer; I'm sure it'll be immensely helpful. But I don't think that it should be on that question. It should be answered on the question 'What is close reading?'. Otherwise, it's very hard to point people to a question that isn't itself about close reading when they ask about close reading.
@Shokhet ...I'm not entirely sure myself what I'm asking. (Although Hamlet seems to understand...) I'm hoping that I'll figure it out soon :P
It's very annoying how I often am only able to read one or two of the books in a series, and then have to wait forever to read the next part.
 
I know people who have lists of series-not-yet-concluded, and estimates on what year they should check to see if the series is finished so they can read/watch the whole thing.
 
@Mithrandir Nah, I disagree. It's good to see close reading in practice, applied to an actual piece of writing. Talking about close reading in the abstract is all well and good, but you don't really appreciate it until you've actually seen it done and how powerful it can be.
 
7:20 AM
@BESW I wasn't even talking about series not fully released. I mean series that I pick up one book somewhere and then wait for years to get the next one, even though they've all been out for twenty years.
@Randal'Thor then what are we supposed to stick here?
10
Q: What is close reading?

HamletWhat exactly is "close reading"? How does it relate to the study of literature? Are there any instructions about how to do a close reading of a text/passage?

 
@Randal'Thor You can have your cake and eat it too, with one question about close reading, whose answer describes close reading and links to another question's answer which demonstrates close reading.
 
@Hamlet, thank you for your nice and detailed answer, which will hopefully be useful to many site users in times to come.
But I'm not sure I care for your assumption that none of us know what close reading is - see for example this answer of mine to see that I've been consciously close reading since February at least, as well as this and to a lesser extent this from January.
I'm trying to put this delicately, since I know you're trying to do a really good thing here, but to some people parts of your answer might come off as patronising - e.g. the way you keep repeating the phrase "close reading" (see? I've been doing some close reading of your answer about close reading! :-P ) It's possible to teach people while still respecting them :-)
I have some more thoughts about your very interesting answer, but no time to write them all down now - will be back later.
@Mithrandir Ah, that question already exists. Well, maybe a general answer there which references Hamlet's new answer for examples?
... as BESW just said.
 
That's exactly what I meant. :P
 
 
3 hours later…
10:30 AM
4
A: Story-ID Teenager in orphanage or prison

MarzipanherzFirst: thanks to you for reading the question and giving it a thought! After several failed attempts to google this book/story by the story fragments, I finally had the idea to look for a list of all Reader's Digest "Condensed Books" / "Selected Editions". Luckily, Wikipedia offers such lists i...

^ Nice! He solved his own story-id.
 
 
2 hours later…
12:43 PM
Polite comments in practice (#humblebrag):
Wow, such a nice community. Downvote in 10 mins! — TheVillageIdiot 9 hours ago
Don't take it personally; some users here dislike all [story-id] questions and downvote them habitually. Check out some of the tips here to see if there's any info that you remember but didn't think of when you asked the question; specifically, how long ago is "a long time ago"? You said Oscar Wilde, so it was probably English. Where did you read this? — Shokhet 8 hours ago
@Shokhet thanks for your advice. I am active on stackoverflow since beta and don't worry about down-vote. But not telling what is wrong annoys a bit. Yes, some of the further information I can provide. — TheVillageIdiot 3 hours ago
...I don't mean to brag, but this is what happens when people leave polite and constructively critical comments -- posts get improved, and everyone feels better. Just sayin'.
Hrm. I just saw someone send a new user to the tour page...I just looked at it, and it's great that it has the ask/don't ask pieces already there...but the example question (How to prevent unicorns from eating daisies) needs a little work. Do we have the ability to switch example questions yet?
What might be more useful is a meta "new users' guide;" I know Skeptics has had one for a while. Mi Yodeya made one recently, and added the link to the stock new user comments. I don't know if our scope is defined well enough yet for a new user guide.
(But I suppose there's nothing wrong with editing it as needed as scope and site best practices develop.)
@BESW That comic sounds...interesting. IIRC you've mentioned it before, right?
Yep. Even asked a question about it. :)
 
@Mithrandir I'm planning on writing an answer to that question. But like Rand said, you don't really understand what close reading is until you do it in action. My plan for the answer to that question is just to link to good examples of close reading. I could give a definition, but a definition is essentially useless.
@Randal'Thor well, you're right, I was a bit condescending. And I've definitely seen you do close reading before in your answers. I've also seen you use the phrase close reading in chat before.
 
0
Q: A poetry perhaps a passage. Help me out in analysing why I always go wrong on my answers.

Mansi ManhasThe passage/poetry (I lack understanding): The answers I marked are the ones in red. However, the correct answers are the green. Now, My understanding is that the answers I marked are directly from the passage as it is. However, the correct answers seems to be different. Perhaps, a great unde...

 
12:58 PM
@Mithrandir @Hamlet, since you're around, can you help me understand Mithrandir's question? literature.stackexchange.com/q/2773/481
 
I'm not here. I'm standing in the supermarket bored out of my skull.
 
@Bookworm @all: on topic? On the one hand, it's homework (or test prep); on the other, the user wants to know what went wrong with their interpretation.
 
@Shokhet It's not a comic series I love, but that's not for lack of quality.
 
I just voted to close as too broad -- there are five questions there. But should answers on this site coach askers in basic critical reading skills?
 
1:03 PM
@Randal'Thor I repeated the phrase close reading because I was writing an answer about close reading. But I could see how it could be interpreted as being condescending; if there are any sentences that particularly bother you (maybe "I am now going to perform a close reading", which I saw as me just walking the reader through the answer, but maybe I'm wrong), please feel free to edit.
 
@BESW Mhmm. I meant interesting more as "interesting," but I suppose there was no way to read the slight sarcasm in that message without scare quotes. (I need my coffee.)
 
Ah, yes. "Interesting." It is absolutely that.
 
And to be honest, when I pinged you four; it wasn't that I found your answers to be different from the other answers on this site. It's just your active on chat. I would like the phrase "close reading" to enter into this site's conciousness and vocabulary, just like the phrase "authorial intent" did.
 
@Hamlet And I thank you for the ping. @Randal'Thor is kinda right that you can come off as patronizing at times, but I (I can't speak for the others) do appreciate learning new things about literature and literary analysis, and have "opted in" to your program, by telling earlier that I would like to be pinged for posts you thought were important and relevant to learning more about analysis.
 
1:22 PM
@Shokhet YES. This. I've been trying to tell this to active users (and even mods) on various sites for almost as long as I've been on SE. I remember constantly being at odds with someone on Puzzling (to the extent that the mods made us a private room to help us sort out our differences and stop carping at each other) because he liked to criticise and downvote and I liked to help and be constructive.
@Shokhet Interesting idea. I suspect at this point we wouldn't have many Lit-specific stock comments, but it might still be a useful resource.
 
@Randal'Thor :D
@Randal'Thor I don't know how clear my message was, but I meant to suggest a "beginner's guide to Literature.SE" meta post, not a stock comment list (though that may also be a good idea).
 
@Shokhet Being homework or test prep isn't enough to make a question off-topic. I'd say that could be turned into a decent question - it's essentially asking about close reading of a particular passage of text.
 
Stock comments should include one for recommendations and story-ID improvement, for sure. We definitely have at least those. (And this is also related to custom close reasons.)
@Randal'Thor I know, I know. See the comment I left on that question:
Hello Mansi, and welcome to Literature. This question is a little too broad -- to help maintain a good focus on specific questions and answers, we generally try to keep it to one question per question post. The question may be closed for that reason (but don't worry, we'll reopen it when it's fixed.) Please also see our homeworks and tests policy. — Shokhet 17 mins ago
...what was rubbing me the wrong way with that one was mostly how broad it was.
@Randal'Thor Also, I'm still not sure of the exact definition of "close reading" (haven't read Hamlet's stuff yet), but it seems to me that this came from the critical reading portion of some standardized test. (And one of the blogs that Hamlet has linked to in chat differentiated between critical and close reading; I had that open in a browser tab to read later but lost it when my computer crashed.)
 
@Hamlet, re this comment: after reading your answer, I do have some further thoughts about the same poem, including based on close reading of other stanzas. But they feel more like extra additions to your answer than enough for a new answer. I'm torn over whether to post my own answer "inspired by @Hamlet's" or just leave lots of comments on yours.
 
@Randal'Thor I would not describe it as a close reading question :)
 
1:35 PM
Wow. Super edit, @Randal'Thor!
 
@Randal'Thor I would recommend writing a new answer; comments are hard to follow.
And I would not have tagged that question with the close reading tag.
 
@Shokhet I ain't finished yet :-)
 
@Randal'Thor 👍
@Hamlet That was the OP's choice.
 
@Shokhet oh, I didn't see that, my bad. Sorry @Randal'Thor
 
The tagging was terrible to begin with.
I'm still working on editing it.
 
1:42 PM
Someone needs to add usage guidance to 's excerpt. I haven't read it and know nothing about it, so I don't feel qualified to do that myself.
 
@Hamlet Yeah, having read it properly now, I agree that's not really close reading. It's just "understand what you've just read".
Although the OP is wondering if maybe they need to do a close reading in order to get the answers expected rather than the ones they've circled.
 
@Randal'Thor Passages and questions like these are very common in the "critical reading" sections of certain tests, especially the SAT.
@Randal'Thor I'm not sure if the OP knows what close reading is....I think that the tag just came up under "reading," just like came up for "passage."
 
@Shokhet Wikipedia is your friend :-)
 
Does no one else think that this question is too broad? There are literally five four questions in there.
 
Just for fun, here is 'The Baking of Tarts', which I now see in an entirely new light, from the title onwards. monologues.co.uk/Parodies/Baking_of_Tarts.htmSpagirl 14 mins ago
Oh good lord :-P
@Shokhet Not sure. I see your point, but OTOH the whole question is about the understanding of a single reasonably short passage.
Look at it another way: do we really want four or five separate questions out of this?
 
1:56 PM
Fair enough.
@Randal'Thor I don't have the time to answer the question (even though I'd like to); to do that, I'd need to coach the OP on how to read four different sections of that passage. That takes a lot of time and effort :/
 
@Shokhet And another one! :-)
 
@Randal'Thor Yep. You're on a roll today!
Could someone please make this into a question? Please? :P
.@pryce_d since you asked…. https://t.co/z4LFlisYfQ
 
@Randal'Thor LOL :)
 
2:41 PM
Transcribing is one of the most venerable and honorable parts of editing ;P
 
What is the symbolism of the final rise of the #Kraken? https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/1120/481
 
2:56 PM
2
Q: What does the author imply by using the phrase “open to attack” for the element of worship in patriotism?

Mansi ManhasSource: https://csatprep.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/rc-exercise-1.pdf Patriotism is a very complex feeling, built up out of primitive instincts and highly intellectual convictions. There is love of home and family and friends, making us peculiarly anxious to preserve our own country from in...

 
 
1 hour later…
4:20 PM
@AdamLear Two user accounts that have recently followed my Area51.SE proposal has the same gravatar. Does that mean the same person is following my proposal two times?
(I like how you can come in this room and ask.)
No asking Adam Lear in this room seems weird.
 
4:38 PM
Why is this room so quiet?
 
4:58 PM
@HenryWHHackv2.0 (1) no one will be able to answer this question unless you provide links to the two profiles in question. (2) is there any reason why you have to ask Adam this question instead of, say, posting a question on the area51 meta, where anyone can see and answer it?
 
@Hamlet Well why open a meta when your not sure.
 
@Hamlet MSE (meta.stackexchange.com) might be the better place, actually. There are more eyes there. @HenryWHHackv2.0
 
Ok
Ok I admit it:
I like talking to Adam Lear.
 
@HenryWHHackv2.0 it's not quiet, there was a pretty involved conversation a few hours ago.
 
interesting
 
5:18 PM
@HenryWHHackv2.0 not every room is bustling, especially when it's a pretty small site :)
 
Ok
How is the book?
 
I just got some new ones, actually :)
 
nice! :)
 
5:31 PM
@Shokhet - would you like to help me formulate a question about whether the illustration on page 59 is part of the poem on page 98 or not?
(That does sound odd, doesn't it...)
 
@Mithrandir I have the book, but it's at home (I'm in school). Can you send pictures?
(Is this what you meant to ask with your Silverstein question all along?)
 
Something like that.
(top - p98 bottom - p59)
(gah. Afk)
 
I'm still not sure I understand the question, but it's still loads better than what you posted, I think, because there's actually this specific thing that you're wondering.
However, I still think it's pretty clear from the text (the poem mentions page 59! There is an eel acting as an electric cable on page 59!) what is going on.
 
Yes... but how does that work when reproducing the poem in other forms?
(this is going to be a new question if I can wiggle out a question here)
 
@HenryWHHackv2.0 In this case... yeah. Looks like this person followed with a guest profile and then again after logging in. I merged the two, so there's just one follow from that user now.
 
5:45 PM
@AdamLear Nice
 
@Mithrandir Well, you didn't say that before :) ...that can be a good, clear question, IMO.
Until now, unless I'm much mistaken, you hadn't mentioned reproducing the poem in other forms (media, other books, etc.). That's a new thing, and the eel poem is a good one for that.
 
Right. That's why it's a new question :P
 
👍
Still don't fully understand the first question, but I can see how it's part of your assumptions for the second question.
 
The first one is more 'how should you take the pictures into account when interpreting the poem'. I think. I'm not sure what exactly it was supposed to be, so I'm happy it got a close vote as unclear ;P
Unfortunately, that kind of slightly messes up Lauren's answer.
 
@Mithrandir That was me, after I failed to understand Hamlet's interpretation.
 
5:52 PM
@Shokhet I suspected that.
 
I'm a major fan of asking the exact question on Stack Exchange that you want answered. Asking the question differently leads to a lack of clarity kinda what we're experiencing now with the Silverstein question, besides the OP chancing getting answers that don't quite solve the problem. [cont.]
[cont.] IMHO, if you wanted to ask a question about the eels from the start, @Mithrandir, you should have just asked that question, and used the material from literature.stackexchange.com/q/2773/481 as part of the foundation of that question.
(I also don't think you needed all four poems. That shows research effort, I know, but I think one or two should have been enough. But that's just a side note.)
 
Heh, I almost added a fifth, just because I liked the illustration :P
 
@Mithrandir At which point I think we run into literature.meta.stackexchange.com/q/686/481
 
Anyway, I'll see if I can figure out a good way to ask the eels question at some point later tonight.
 
Aright. Good luck with that :)
 
 
3 hours later…
8:51 PM
@Shokhet posted. Feel free to chime in with any improvements.
 
9:06 PM
1
Q: How is the connection between the picture on page 59 and the last line of 'Allison Beals and her 25 eels" shown in other publications of the poem?

Mithrandir"Allison Beals and her 25 eels" is a poem in Falling Up by Shel Silverstein. It describes how Allison uses 24 eels - shoelaces, earrings, ladle, etc. The 25th, however, is different. The poem ends like this: The 'lectric one was a lamp that could shine, And one got a new job on page fifty-n...

 
9:37 PM
@Hamlet Actually, this is a question which can be answered in general. SE gravatars are produced by taking some sort of hash of the user's email address (maybe IP address too?) So if two users have exactly the same gravatar, then they're almost certainly the same person with two accounts - probably at least one unregistered, since otherwise the accounts would be merged automatically.
cc @HenryWHHackv2.0 ^
@Shokhet Best of all, it looks like it was an educational edit. Compare the first revision of that question with the OP's next question. It's great when people learn so quickly about how to format and present their questions :-D
 
9:55 PM
Hey kids! Science! Mysteries of the Quantum Universe from @ParticularBooks https://t.co/XrTOvD0Xlq
 
10:08 PM
Horse-riding librarians were the Great Depression's bookmobiles http://smithmag.co/8vdcKu
 
10:48 PM
I've made a contribution to the topic challenge, even without having got hold of the book. I hope it's a sensible question.
Perhaps one for @BESW?
 
2
Q: Were the contributors to "The SEA is Ours" all already established authors?

Rand al'ThorThe SEA is Ours is an anthology collection of steampunk stories by various South-East Asian authors, including names such as Olivia Ho, Marilag Angway, and Timothy Dimacali. I know very little about either steampunk or South-East Asian literature, so none of these names were familiar to me; howev...

 
Ca-ching!
 
11:02 PM
@Randal'Thor Yes, I saw that. Well done!
@Randal'Thor 👍
@Randal'Thor The OP did say that she was going to keep this in mind for future questions:
@Shokhet Thank you for letting me know. I would keep this in mind for future questions. — Mansi Manhas 9 hours ago
 
@Shokhet Lots of people say things like that without meaning them, and then make equally poor posts next time. In this case, actions have spoken louder than words :-)
 
@Randal'Thor That's true. (tbh when I saw that comment, I was thinking, "Well, what about this post?" ...you and Hamlet fixed it up quickly enough, though.)
 
11:20 PM
Who are all the Priestesses and Gods in #InCryptid? https://literature.stackexchange.com/q/2765/481
 
user15026
@Feeds aww yay! <3
 
@Randal'Thor Anthology tags on meta. I suppose you decided that your question made the mark that Gilles spoke about in the last paragraph of his answer?
@Ash You're very welcome :)
If you're on Twitter, feel free to retweet that -- the Twitter account (and your question) deserve some more attention.
 
user15026
@Shokhet Shiny, I just might do that when I get a chance later :)
 
user15026
I've been compiling a list myself as I re-read them. It won't be exhaustive but it will be a start!
 
@Shokhet I reread that post before tagging my question. And yes, I thought that comes under the last paragraph: a question about this specific anthology rather than any one of the stories that comprise it.
 
11:24 PM
@Randal'Thor Okay.
I originally started writing that message before rereading Gilles' answer, when I still thought that consensus was "no antho tags at all." I posted the message anyway after paying more attention to the answer after reading it again.
 
AFAIK (correct me if I'm wrong), the SEA is Ours stories were written specifically for that collection and haven't been published separately. So a tag might make sense even for questions about individual stories, since the argument of Gilles's first paragraph doesnt' apply here.
But that's a discussion for another time.
@Hamlet OK, I'm not sure if I get it. You said my Holmes/Moriarty answer might not quite count as close reading, but how is it not "reading something closely, i.e. paying careful attention to every word in a passage, and seeing how the exact wording of a passage creates meaning"?
I thought I'd more or less understood what close reading means, but it seems it's more specific than I'd realised.
 
11:57 PM
0
Q: Do the stories in "The SEA is Ours" accurately portray the essential aspects of South-East Asian culture?

ShokhetThe SEA is Ours is this month's topic challenge. The purpose of these challenges is to increase the diversity of the literature that we discuss on this site. This is important for a number of reasons, among them to increase our understanding of cultures other than our own. Therefore, I'd like to...

 
And if my book weren't stuck on a boat somewhere I might be able to answer it. But I'm not in a SEA culture myself, much less familiar with all the many different SEA cultures represented in the anthology.
 

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