Jaami'at StackExchange al-Islamyya - 2013-04-09 (page 1 of 3)

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11:45 AM

@AlUmmatمجاهد, Regarding your question in Islam.SE about Uzair I found this, the Hadeeth is from Ahlul Bayt peace be upon them narrating a debate between the holy prophet peace be upon him and his family and Jews, Christians and ...:

Source: البرهان في تفسير القرآن، ج‏2، ص: 760-763

الإمام العسكري (عليه السلام): قال: «قال الصادق (عليه السلام): لقد حدثني أبي الباقر (عليه السلام) عن جدي علي بن الحسين زين العابدين، عن أبيه الحسين بن علي سيد الشهداء، عن أمير المؤمنين علي بن أبي طالب (صلوات الله عليهم أجمعين)، أنه اجتمع يوما عند رسول الله (صلى الله عليه و آله) أهل خمسة أديان: اليهود، و النصارى، و الدهرية، و الثنوية، و مشركو العرب.
فقالت اليهود: نحن نقول: عزير ابن الله، و قد جئناك- يا محمد- لننظر ما تقول، فإن تبعتنا فنحن أسبق إلى الصواب منك و أفضل، و إن خالفتنا خاصمناك «1».

3 hours later…

Al Ummat مجاهد

2:40 PM

@owari Thank you :)

Al Ummat مجاهد

3:07 PM

@owari Thanks for providing that, but it stops when the Prophet turns to الدهرية

can you provide the full?

2 hours later…

Al Ummat مجاهد

4:45 PM

@AlUmmatمجاهد, what u r discussing is not Islam, that's all. — Mohammad 1 min ago

@mohammad and how can you say that?

@mohammad can you give me one authentic hadith that music in general is halal ?

4:59 PM

@AlUmmatمجاهد, every thing is good unless its contrariwise
is proved! tell me to what u r referring that u say in general music is haraam!

Al Ummat مجاهد

@Mohammad see this then if you wish

sunnah.com/abudawud/43/152

furthermore Ibn Mas'ood narrated: "Signing/Music (unsure translation) plants hypocrisy in the heart just like water plants"

الغناء ينبت النفاق في القلب كما ينبت الماء الزرع

@AlUmmatمجاهد first tell me ur definition of "الْغِنَاءِ", i think u don't know what's ghena

Al Ummat مجاهد

@Mohammad It means signing as far as I know

if you wish you can consult a dictionary

Also Ibn Abi Dunya came with another hadith of a different face form Ibn Mas'ood

الغناء ينبت النفاق في القلب كما ينبت الماء البقل ، والذكر ينبت الإيمان في القلب كما ينبت الماء الزرع

library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/…

translation of the above "Signing plants hypocrisy in the heart just like water plants herbs, and Dhikr/remembrance of Allah plants Iman in the heart just like water plants "

@Mohammad furthermore, you were talking about listening to music to calm, well if you want to be calm one can do is just do Dhikr and read the Quran instead

@Mohammad for it is Allah Himself who said: " Those who have believed and whose hearts are assured by the remembrance of Allah . Unquestionably, by the remembrance of Allah hearts are assured." "

quran.com/13/28

@Mohammad Furthermore I suggest you see this

sunnah.com/nasai/38/3

ghena doesn't consider all musics, ghena is a special type of musics. when it's marked lusty and immoral

all musics are halal unless they're going to be included ghena

and there is a big differences between general musics and ghena

so u shouldn't mistake the definitions

Al Ummat مجاهد

sunnah.com/nasai/38/3

@Mohammad can you provide sayings of reliable scholars to support what you said?

5:15 PM

my language is persian

and we have many texts and books from what u r referring to web

i'm iranian

maarefquran.org/index.php/page,viewArticle/…

see that

ctrl + g غنا

and use google translate

the section about ghena and musics would be ur part

Al Ummat مجاهد

I am not that good in reading persian sadly

and as for using google translate I am not sure how, I haven't used it much in translating pages

we've rich refrences so what i say is not unlike what "it is"

Al Ummat مجاهد

@Mohammad can you provide some of those references so I can see them?

what that page is referred to is مجله صحیفه مبین –شماره 27

Al Ummat مجاهد

by any chance are you shia?

5:26 PM

yes

Al Ummat مجاهد

@Mohammad ok. Well I have no wish to argue this point then, what we believe in is different and maybe based on two different things

furthermore I delete not only your comments on your answer but also some of mine because they were off topic

the point of comments is to try to help improve a question or an answer

I have left mine inviting you to read the FAQ and add some citations to your answer

furthermore I am a Muslim

@Mohammad furthermore I welcome you again to our site

we don't have many shia members on here

thanks bro

Al Ummat مجاهد

@Mohammad also a suggestion for your answer/s so others can avoid confusion, add some where that mentions that it is a shia view or according to the shia

or something of a sort

Islam is Islam, different visions are not true.

Al Ummat مجاهد

@Mohammad very true

5:46 PM

the things that in islam are prohibited, are the things that has disadvantages

to mind, body and soul

Al Ummat مجاهد

@Mohammad yes

and Music has it's disadvantages

just like it can control ones emotions

it can control what one think of and so on

It has been said that when Music and the Quran is put together in the heart

one or the other will get kicked out

one will find many putting Music above the Quran

the words of God

that has been sent down as a cure, and guidance for mankind

Now there is the Anasheed

which started out innocently

but now is like rock and roll

well emotions are inner sides of a person, and a music just bolds and not controls what's existed! it doesn't control anything but let u remember things and in some ways u need and really u need musics to be calm

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo yep, it is a great way for shaytaan to tamper with us

it doesn't control

but it can make us feel angry some times

and at other feel sad and at other happy and at other confused

it's not related to shaytaan. i said it already, heavy musics and ghena is something else

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo furthermore we don't need Music to be calm, because Allah our creator the one who knows us best told us about Dhikr, the remembrance of Him, and told us to remember Him, that is what can make us calm not music

@revo Music is Music, just like water is water

now if you want to talk about poetry, that maybe something different

but music...

The Prophet himself put fingers in his ears when he heard a pipe being played

5:55 PM

don't confuse musics with remembering God

suppose u're with ur mother in home and u feel good when ur mother is beside u

that makes u come

u remember ur mom

and u feel better

in some situations!

Al Ummat مجاهد

Those who have believed and whose hearts are assured by the remembrance of Allah . Unquestionably, by the remembrance of Allah hearts are assured

quran.com/13/28

calm*

talking to friends, family, remembering good memories ... can make a relaxation like musics

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo but Allah is not my mother, he is my creator, when we truly remember him we always become calm

not sometimes

i don't say that with remembering God we don't get calm

i say there are many other mediums that u can get help from

and that's not problem

Al Ummat مجاهد

then isn't the remembrance of Allah far more greater then music?

5:59 PM

do u think drinking milk is better that water?

that's not a good compare

it's a time that u need milk

but whenever u feel thirsty u need water

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo no there isn't, help only comes from Allah

and when we need help we turn to Allah

nothing else

not music not poetry not water and not milk

anyway where did the discussion about milk come from? I don't recall mentioning that

can u get help from Allah to write your software codes down when u r stuck in it ?

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo can you find help without the help and will of Allah?

don't change the issue, just answer

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo it is not me who changed the subject

as far as I remember we were talking about Music

then talking about who to turn to when we need help

I need to go make my dhuhr ظهر salat I will be back Insha'Allah

6:05 PM

we are talking step by step

so every step has its own topics

bon apetite

Al Ummat مجاهد

I am back

ok so if we talk step by step

then if Allah himself says if we remember Him, or through remembering Him we can be calm

@Mohammad would we then need to go to anything else seeking to be calm?

I mean why make it hard on oneself, our Creator has given us the best prescription to being calm

if we go to other then that seeking to be calm, would we not be ignoring what our Creator said?

and if we Ignore what He said, do you think we would be calm? in a state of peace?

furthermore I am not at all likening music to the remembrance of Allah

1 hour later…

7:28 PM

@AlUmmatمجاهد so u don't need PC because allah is there

@AlUmmatمجاهد, ur reasons is completely wrong

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo what does PC have to do with being calm?

we are talking about calmness not computers

can u remember ur friend every second ?

God makes for us "things" that with them u can do things to get closer to him

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo is that an excuse for not remembering Allah? I am not saying we can remember Him all the time, but we should try, after all it is Allah Himself who said this life is a test

@revo yes, no doubt, but we are talking about calmness

u can't ignore the calmness from music

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo no, nor can we ignore that Music can make us forget God and make us forget worship and make it easier for Shaytaan to get to us

7:32 PM

nothing except "BADS" can make us forget god

music is not bad

please disable "image loading" from ur browser

u shouldn't see images

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo what are you talking about now?

furthermore Music cannot be bad, but just like Alcohol isn't bad to a point, it's bad/evil is far more greater then it's good

Allah said everything should be ignored and just if u want get calm think about me and remember me ?

yes or no ?

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo He said that if we remember Him we can be calm, now that we know that would you rather do that or go the long way and the risky way trying to get calm? like if you know food is in your house but you can go to a restaurant far far away would you rather go to that restaurant or eat the food in your house?

music is not risky, that's ur conception

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo that is what you say, if you want to listen to music go right ahead

it is your choice

I cannot stop you

7:37 PM

yea actually i'm trying to give u a better view about what can u do with islam

islam is not tough

it's simple

it's great

and it doesn't make u don't enjoy things that u can get joy from

but all of them

should go through rules

that are called islam

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo no, it is not, that is true. But when something is bad for us we are told of it, and just like alcohol is bad for us so is music

Islam is what we need to do

not what we want to do

u r talking about ghena

not musics in general

every thing has bad effects and good effects

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo so does salat have bad effects?

what about the rememberance of our Lord, does that have bad effects?

if not

then not everything has bad effects

furthermore we are warned about those things that have bad effects

like gambling

i'm talking about musics, alcohol and usuals

Al Ummat مجاهد

fortunetelling

Music

and so on

Alcohol

7:41 PM

u r mixing every thing to gether

Al Ummat مجاهد

Zina

@revo well, don't you know that Music can lead to zina?

Islam says do not look at Na Mahram

is it true ?

ghena yes but musics in general no

clear if u r talking about ghena or not

ghena is different from musics as i said

continually before

i said u r talking about ghena or musics in whole ?

u should separate them, it's like that u say "Liquids are bad" because it includes Alcohol!!!

Al Ummat مجاهد

fine

@revo can you provide a Hadith supporting Music being halal?

so?

maybe later because i should search and see if there is one! but i said ghena is also a type of music, but Haraam and the others are halaal

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo and what you say you must back up with truth if what you say is truthful, I have given you a number of Ahadeeth and an Ayah

now it is your turn

@revo I can wait :)

7:53 PM

every person on the planet has a "Conscience" and it comes from God. u can distinguish bad and good by it. So whenever u feel something is good it's because of that "Conscience" and when u listen to it and do it, u're a muslim.

when u know something is bad but u do it

that comes from Conscience

when u know something is good

and u like it

that's it

Islam wants tell us, listen to that words and inner inspiration that God put in u

and do it

that's all

u think that guys that are not muslims won't go to heaven ?

Al Ummat مجاهد

so how many people actually listen to their Conscience? and how do we know that what we get is from God, have you forgotten about the Whisperer? and how do we know that we are just trying to hear what we want to hear?

@revo is that a trick Question? see what Allah says, then come back to me and you would have answered your self

Salam

Al Ummat مجاهد

@owari Wa Alaikum salam

Conscience is fixed! every person knows what's good and what's bad. but they maybe preferred to do the "bad". Conscience for all people is the same

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo furthermore all I am asking is atleast one or two Ahadeeth that support your claim that Music is halal

7:57 PM

it comes from Allah

Al Ummat مجاهد

@revo yes, and how many people listen to it?

have you forgotten about SHaytaan

@AlUmmatمجاهد This is the full version of the Hadeeth:

Al Ummat مجاهد

about our desires?

Source: البرهان في تفسير القرآن، ج‏2، ص: 760-767

الإمام العسكري (عليه السلام): قال: «قال الصادق (عليه السلام): لقد حدثني أبي الباقر (عليه السلام) عن جدي علي بن الحسين زين العابدين، عن أبيه الحسين بن علي سيد الشهداء، عن أمير المؤمنين علي بن أبي طالب (صلوات الله عليهم أجمعين)، أنه اجتمع يوما عند رسول الله (صلى الله عليه و آله) أهل خمسة أديان: اليهود، و النصارى، و الدهرية، و الثنوية، و مشركو العرب.
فقالت اليهود: نحن نقول: عزير ابن الله، و قد جئناك- يا محمد- لننظر ما تقول، فإن تبعتنا فنحن أسبق إلى الصواب منك و أفضل، و إن خالفتنا خاصمناك «1».

i listen to it and i'm talking what's true

Al Ummat مجاهد

7:58 PM

@owari ah thank you, Insha'Allah I will get to reading it :)

@revo then if it is true then there is also proof to support it

people can make themselves think that their Conscience is telling them pig is halal, but in reality Shaytaan is whispering to them and they are listening

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