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3:14 AM
@silvermaple it can be moved... but
actually... since it's already closed, you have to 'reopen', then 'close'->'offtopic'->'move to meta'
 
I see I see
 
I don't see how you can get something approaching an authoritative answer out of that question
 
Oh yeah, that's why I thought it would be good in meta
and also that way we can direct people to that discussion should that question pop up again
 
eh... 'acceptable in meta because it has no rules' is a different thing from 'good in meta'
I actually think we do ourselves harm by moving closed, OT questions over to meta.... when someone starts typing in a new question, they don't see the popups
 
that's a good point
I was thinking like the resources question
We got a really good guide there to point people to now...i use it myself for reference too
 
3:22 AM
Yeah... but that's a slightly different situation
 
true
 
The resources thread is essentially a huge, community-moderated list
For fuzzy questions... you can make some -okayish- ones on meta... but they're not going to be as nice as that one is
 
Yeah, it's much more subjective
 
We could probably do a pretty nice "IME tricks" meta-question... haven't figured out how to put it together though
 
Well anyway, very long weekend, but hopefully with it behind me I can focus on my studies and being a better community member now :D
catch you around :D
 
 
1 hour later…
4:34 AM
@jkerian I think a lot of people learn how to use their input methods more or less by trying stuff until it works.
 
There are some handy tricks people know, though
 
I never learned all the details of kinput2+canna back when I used it
It's only recently that I learned some basics
 
I'm thinking of things like xe for ぇ
 
I always typed てぃ as texi
but you can type thi, which is shorter
 
ssb
what's the best IME, anyway
i love google IME but i don't have experience with others
 
4:36 AM
Some of them vary from input method to input method; on Anthy I can type wyi for ゐ
I think on OSX it's whi, but I'm too lazy to check.
 
ssb
on google just typing wi gives that
 
On some input methods, you get うぃ from wi
Which makes sense, since うぃ is more common
 
ssb
i'm pretty sure on google you'll get that first but the next conversion option will be ゐ
 
I can type うぃ and convert it to ゐ with space, though
 
ssb
i'm on linux now and just trying with anthy apparently ゐ is the default for wi
 
4:37 AM
Yeah, I just checked on my mac: ゐ is not a conversion option for うぃ on the OS X input method.
 
On mozc I get うぃ when I type it, and ゐ as the first conversion option.
Which seems reasonable to me.
 
You have to type wyi to get ゐ on OSX.
There's also variance in how to type small letters; I think x works on everything, but on some you can also type l
 
ssb
i usually use l
 
So some people start out typing てぃ as teli, then you end up getting てり after switching OSs...
 
ssb
it's worked on every ime i've tried
interesting that there's such variability
 
4:39 AM
I always use x.
 
Again, OS X is the odd one out: l converts to ラ行 on OS X.
 
ssb
x is probably more reliable
 
Except for the normal things.
 
I use h when possible. てぃ thi
 
ssb
but L is right there on home row!
 
4:40 AM
Like しゅ and such.
 
I use the shortest available entry, so I type si and tu, not shi and tsu
 
ssb
it took me a long time to break the habit of writing tsu and shi
 
Only a crazy person would type sixyu for that! I use shi and shu personally.
 
ssb
for some reason i feel frustrated when i see japanese people write it syu
 
I also type lots of small っs not by xtu, but by typing kkkkkkkkkk<backspace>
っっっっっっっっ
 
ssb
4:41 AM
i'm so anglo-biased gosh
 
I use ttttt, but yeah.
 
syu is fine but I don't like the y key as much as the h key. It's all the way over there.
Well, I use whatever letter. Not k specifically
 
ssb
Also a lot of japanese people use h instead of f
 
Oh yeah, I type f.
 
ssb
i still feel major 違和感 when i see someone write hukuoka
 
4:43 AM
The hu representation for ふ is nice when trying to explain some derivations though.
Which is why si is sometimes nice instead of shi.
And tu instead of tsu.
 
Well, I was just talking about wa-puro entry, not Romanization I'd use for explaining something
 
Yeah, I know.
 
The choices you make for entry and analyzing words are unrelated, I think
 
ssb
i've never met anyone that actually usd the direct kana input method though
i wonder how many people actually do it that way
 
I use it on my phone
 
ssb
4:44 AM
i don't mean the kana tenkey style
i mean on a full wasd using the hiragana buttons instead of romaji
 
I think ento (who used to hang out in this chat) uses an alternative input method
Not kana input, though
 
When I was in Japan I saw a bunch of such keyboard in the stores so I imagine some people must use them
 
People use kana keyboards by typing romaji.
 
ssb
all japanese keyboards have the alternative hiragana keys on them
 
The extra conversion keys come in handy, is all :-)
 
4:47 AM
I mean, ones with just the hiragana.
I saw some cool rollable keyboards too. I kind of wanted to get one.
Haha, creepy. I just typed "rollable keyboard" into Google, didn't click on anything, then opened up Amazon and it gave me suggestions for foldable keyboards.
 
ssb
wow
 
The other thing I think is useful to know with an input method is that you can add stuff to the dictionary
Which might sound basic, but...
Having tried a bunch of input methods, it's not always obvious that you can do that, let alone how to do it
 
ssb
the thing i like about google ime is that it keeps track of that automatically
 
Keeps track of meaning it syncs?
 
ssb
i mean if I type some made up word like ぷぷぷぱー
the next time i type ぷ ぷぷぷぱー will show up in the suggestions
 
4:55 AM
Ha
 
ssb
i just wish it were cross platform
 
Yeah. Annoying when you typo though.
 
ssb
somehow it seems to be smart enough that it doesn't show typos if you don't keep using them
 
I'm not sure if that's quite the same thing, though. How do you add conversions? Like (bad example) I made up the reading しかうま and assigned it to 廌 so I could type it
 
ssb
maybe some kind of lexical garbage collector
 
4:57 AM
Since it looks like 鹿 and 馬
 
ssb
ah that is interesting, i haven't tried that
 
I added a lot of 部首, parts of kanji and other glyphs to my input method's dictionary
And I think some kanji names
It might be more applicable to my situation than yours, since the default dictionary on Anthy is kind of cruddy.
It's got a lot of stuff in it, but it's missing things it shouldn't be
 
 
4 hours later…
ssb
9:13 AM
Just got home and looked at google IME's dictionary. You can add the word, reading, category (seems to be parts of speech by default), and a comment
 
 
3 hours later…
11:49 AM
When writing a polite but not formal letter to somebody and you're talking about a close friend of your's, would you put a honorific after his name?
 
 
1 hour later…
ssb
1:06 PM
@小太朗 i'd go with さん
 
 
2 hours later…
3:11 PM
huh... I was about to comment that I miss Derek's contributions to the site... then I noticed that he hasn't updated his blog-like thing since around the time he disappeared from here.
 
3:29 PM
Hm. I've been going crazy trying to remember/figure out this single word reply to some action a person has indicated they are going to take that effectively means "please do," if I recall correctly. Maybe sort of like ぜひ, but I thought it started with a た sound?
@ssb Nice avatar. ;)
 
@jkerian His blog like thing used to have a rather good article on ~のだ
I can no longer find that article.
It came back!
But the date is different. It seems he reuploaded it. There was one that I read that was before 7th Sept 2012.
 
3:50 PM
@Flaw I need to get him a copy of JSL :)
 
What's JSL?
 
That's very similar to Jordan's explanation.
@Flaw "Japanese the Spoken Language", a romaji-based textbook series from the 70s that everyone on the internet hates... and I think is the best introduction to Japanese that I've seen published
 
Also, unrelatedly, this:
1
Q: How are Japanese words spelt in English?

Andrew GrimmI sometimes see native speakers of Japanese misspell English words derived from Japanese. For example, I've seen "Kyusyu" instead of "Kyushu", and "tunami" instead of "tsunami". (I've also seen "geisya" and "ninjya".) Apart from wasei-eigo words such as "salaryman", are English words that come ...

I see a ping pong game happening soon.
It doesn't feel like a Japanese question to me.
 
hah
let me bonk the ELL mods on the head... one sec
 
If it asks about how the Japanese would romanise it, then I suppose it would be a fringe case for our site.
But if it asks how would English render it, then it seems quite definitely to be an English question.
 
3:53 PM
Admitedly... he asked on the wrong site... it should be ELU, not ELL
 
I'm slightly confused because the question seems to have confusing perspectives.
The question asks for the appropriate English spelling, but the premise is from the perspective of native Japanese spelling it wrong from a English-based system of determining correct spelling.
The judgement system that governs "correctness/wrongness" was not properly established; it seems arbitrary and it is difficult to provide a answer.
@jkerian (Back to JSL) Why does the internet hate it?
@jkerian. Also, what happens when a question is migrated? If it receives votes here, then it gets migrated. Does the vote count reset?
 
@Flaw It uses romaji... even worse... it uses a non-Hepburn romaji
@Flaw I've been asked by the community team NOT to re-migrate, as apparently it breaks things
 
Votes and rep points get messed with?
 
4:09 PM
Apparently the forwarding links between sites break
Hmm... how do you express "broken link" in Japanese?
 
リンク切れ ?
 
4:26 PM
Wow. JSL is going at about $100 at my bookstore
 
yikes
 
But it's out of stock
 
Observe the review histogram at amazon: amazon.com/Japanese-The-Spoken-Language-Part/dp/0300038348
The explanations of grammatical points are MUCH deeper than anything I've seen anywhere else in a textbook.
 
Ah, there's the complaint of "grammar before vocab"
Without grammar, the vocabulary will just sit around each other without the meaningful connections being known.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:37 PM
afternoon all
I finally got a twitters, does anyone know a good twitterer to follow for Japanese?
 
7:18 PM
@silvermaple I mostly follow go players... so I won't be too much help
 
haha
 
合同表彰式 (ひろふみのブログ☆) 今日は(もう日付が変わりましたが)合同表彰式でした。大倉喜七郎賞、秀哉賞、棋道賞、昇段&新入段の表彰がありました。私は六段の免状を頂きました。久しぶりに、この表彰式に出席することが… http://bit.ly/ZoBDYE
 
i found a couple searching around
followed!
because why not?
Do you know if エスコート has the same meaning as "high class prostitute" in Japanese, in addition to the mundane "bring someone somewhere" meaning?
 
Not sure... my dictionary searches aren't coming up with anything
 
I just found the regular meaning so i'm assuming that's all there is
 
7:27 PM
I have got to quit following Atwood on twitter. Roughly half of his posts force me to remember that he CAN create an excellent product, even if he may be wrong about nearly everything else.
 
7:39 PM
I might do this... if I could remember my twitter password
 
 
2 hours later…
9:23 PM
My friend is reading a book that has the following sentence: すると、高畑は外国人のように両手を上げる仕草をした。
外国人のように・・・?
 
9:40 PM
@jkerian Go easy on WendyKidd, she's even newer to moderating than us :-)
Though it does seem weird that we keep getting migrations without being asked. (Well, for values of "keep getting" = "twice")
 
@snailplane Yeah... I didn't actually bother. 1 isolated case does not make a pattern worth complaining about.
The other migration was from... was it linguistics?
Not remembering atm
 
I was referring to the migration from Martial Arts
 
oh yeah... that one :)
 
I don't recall one from Linguistics
 
I must have just been browsing the linguistics one recently... Our total inmigration is only 4
So far we're 1/4 for leaving them open
 
9:44 PM
What are the other two?
 
Ah-ha, the first got re-asked at Linguistics after being closed twice, and the second was actually on-topic
I was thinking about editing out the second question from this question and leaving a comment that they can post it separately if they want: japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/11518/…
Right now I'm just leaving it the way it is.
I don't really like having two answers squished into the space of one
 
@snailplane Yeah... split it out... I sorta wish there was a mod-tool for that
 
What I read on MSO was that all we can do is either ask or edit
Okay, I edited it out.
I left a comment saying they can repost the second question
I get why people think two questions about text that appears in proximity are related, but that definition of related isn't useful here. There's no logical dependency between the two, so the answers to them are necessarily unrelated
So it breaks the voting system and fails the "will future users always want to learn both of these things at the same time?" test
 
10:43 PM
Hopefully my latest question isn't off-topic. I don't think it is, but I wouldn't be too surprised if people disagreed
 

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