I may have no business being here, but I'd like to just hang around and maybe ask some questions. Tell me to go away any time :)

Stupid automatic freezing script.

Hey, @LiamW :)

Did I miss some drama? Why was Sachin Shekhar suspended?

room topic changed to Android Town Hall Chat: meta.android.stackexchange.com/questions/1163/… (no tags)

I'm not sure if I'll be here in person or not, but will try to attend today's chat if I can

Don't worry if you can't. I believe you were a hesistant on this time slot.

No candidates yet, but there is 40 minutes left and I know a good portion didn't even start their time blocks until the time.

Al suggested he would have questions for me to ask but then he didn't post any.

Hi everybody :)

Hey Flow

Hi all :)

Hey Liam

Hello everyone.

Hi

Hey Flow, Liam, dymutaos.

Just FYI: My m key makes some problems. So please excuse the typos that will result from that...

Welcome to the Android Town Hall Chat

Before we begin, I have a big opening text. Please withhold all of your commentary until after I clear through it all.

We're just here to get to know the candidates and ask questions regarding the candidates views on moderation that may help in voting.

A few notes about the format:

The format is open, feel free to ask your question(s) unprompted, however please be mindful of whether or not candidates have answered the previous questions so that they don't get behind and start missing questions. Other than that, feel free to jump in.

Candidates, be sure to use the reply feature so that questions and their answers are linked together. (Hover your mouse over the left of the message, click the down arrow, click reply)

It's a good idea to bold your questions (use ** or __ around it) to make them easier to see. When a question is asked, I'll star it - please star it yourself also to help! Please save stars for the questions so that candidates can refer to the star list to make sure they haven't missed a question.

I will clear stars and remove bold that is attached to anything that isn't a question.

@TimStone will be creating a digest version of the town hall chat after it is completed. This digest will take the form of a question on meta, containing all the questions asked as well as their answers for easier reading.

There's a system message up on the site, so we may get some stragglers joining us if they're still up at this hour.

For candidates, we have @LiamW and @Flow with us currently.

Let's begin, then, shall we?

Sure, let's start the chat.

I'll start off with a traditional question. A diamond will be attached to everything you say and have said in the past, including questions, answers and comments. Everything you will do will be seen under a different light. How do you feel about that?

Lets go :)

(Oh, and I can't star my own stuffs)

@GraceNote I don't think that it will influence my behaviour. I always try to show my best side and put in my best effort.

@GraceNote I guess I don't know what I feel. It shouldn't influence my behavior, and I will probably continue posting as I do now, but probably with a more 'formal' attitude (if I believe it is needed, for example when commenting on a closed post due to a duplicate). Most likely, it will stay the same as it is.

Do you feel like a representative percentage of the community participates in your site's meta? Based on that, how strongly do you think feedback presented on meta should factor into your decision making as a moderator?

@TimStone TBH I do not think that enough members participate on the meta, from when I have looked. It isn't very active, and only the high rep members seem to use it. Some new members do use it, but not often. I believe that, as this is the case, people should take the meta with a grain of salt - it is OK if a suggestion is up voted by 30 people, but what if other users of the site that don't use meta don't like it?

@TimStone I am active on meta, so yes, I do fell like a representative percentage of the active meta users. I always considered meta as the place that makes the rules. So the feedback is very welcomed and if it's the opinion of the majority, everyone should follow that.

@TimStone However - they could have had a say, but, by not using the meta, they didn't. So I would probably just use it as it is.

When you see a question with major issues (poorly-written, argumentative, etc.), what tool do you reach for first?

@TimStone Comments - to notify that user to try and improve. If I understand what they are on about, the edit button. If after a while, nothing has changed, the close or delete button.

@TimStone Edit, downvote or flag. More or less in that order

Is there anything about the way the site is currently run that you would like to change? If so, what would you try to change if you were to become a moderator, and why?

@TimStone I don't think there currently is anything about the way this site is run that I would change. I believe it is run fairly, and like all other SE sites - change is bad, after all.

How do you feel your participation as a moderator will affect your everyday use of the site?

@TimStone Hmm, every SX sites has some major issues if the site becomes big with a lot of questioners and only a few experienced people. I think the biggest problem right now on SO and maybe in the feature on AN.SX ist the quality of the questions. IMHO we need a better way to do some kind of QA .

In what way do you feel that being a moderator will make you more effective as opposed to simply reaching 10k or 20k rep?

@Manishearth I think I will maybe do more mod work and less answers...

@Manishearth I believe that I will probably become more active, however I may let others answer questions before I do, and concentrate on moderating.

@GraceNote Good question. I live in the UK, which is ahead of other time zones. I could moderate moderator flags, when the other mods are asleep - which I would not be able to do had I gained 10 or 20K rep.

@GraceNote I think a >10K user has already all he need to moderate. But there are some cases only diamonds can handle. The amount of those cases increases with the size of the site. Therefore more mods are needed. Isn't that the reason we increase the moderator positions from 3 to 5...

What is one contribution you feel demonstrates that you can be a good moderator? This can be an actual post, your process, or any other activity you feel is indicative of your potential accomplishments as a moderator.

For those who will concentrate on moderating and reduce time spent answering questions, will you still be able to get enjoyment out of the site? That is, how will you keep yourself from 'burning out'? (I personally enjoy answering questions and am not sure if moderating is as fun).

@GraceNote Edit and flag history - also that fact that I am currently top of the rep leaderboard for month and week, and second for quarter.

Flipside time. What do you believe is or will be your biggest weakness as a moderator?

@dymutaos By drinking lots of caffeinated tea ;) Really - I would like to help this site, and I will get enjoyment from that.

See? I were right. ♪

@dymutaos Naaa, I think I always will be an Android Enthusiast. Enjoyment guaranteed. But my time is limited. So if I have to do mod work, the time for answering questions reduces. But that doesn't mean I wont answer a question if I am able to do.

@GraceNote The fact that I have school 6 hours a day MON - FRI, so I can only come on after that - not that that will impact anything. Maybe also the fact that I tend to take sides occasionally, but I haven't done that for a while.

@GraceNote Good question, I have to think about it.

A post is flagged. All moderators have looked at it. No one's taken action/cleared it because you're all unsure what to do with it. What do you do now when there is no consensus?

Maybe that I am not a native speaker

@TimStone That's a case for meta discussion

@TimStone Depending on the flag, I would see what the site thinks using the meta.

@Flow Could you please use message replies? chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/7143455#7143455

Uh sorry, I thought the @ notation is exactly the same

@Flow The direct reply helps link it to the correct question, and makes the digest process easier to run.

@GraceNote got it

@GraceNote Should I go back and fix the previous ones?

@Manishearth That would be handy.

In the mean time, back to interrogation, let's continue our trend. Of the other candidates, who is the one user you think would be most qualified for the position of moderator, and why?

@GraceNote On it....

@GraceNote (though given the slow pace of the chat the implicit reply will work just fine too)

@GraceNote Flow, without a doubt. He has been here a long time, has been a solid contributor, and has amassed more than 10K rep. He has a large edit count, as well as a decent flag count as well as numerous useful badges.

@TimStone Yeah, that's why I didn't want to point it out (and I also avoided posting a new question until a reply was already given to my previous).

:)

Do you view moderation as proactive (acting on unflagged content), reactive (processing flags), or both? What do you feel would be most like your moderation style?

@GraceNote To be honest. I think that is Liam. He is highly motivated, native speaker that shows great interest in the site. Although he is relatively new I would give him the chance. But onik and jlehenbauer are just as good. So it's a close call.

@eldarerathis Both. I believe that I should check to make sure the flags are correct, but also make sure I view new questions and ensure they follow the FAQ and guidelines.

@eldarerathis Plain moderation is purely reactive. But that doesn't prevent anybody from acting on unflagged content. On the other site. before the new review queues I looked at every new question and nowadays I just look what's up on the review queue. It saves some time and with more and more questions per day, looking at every new question becomes nearly impossible. Although I flag/downvote/vc a question here and there.

We're at the halfway mark now, just to make a note of that.

How would you deal with a user who produced a steady stream of valuable answers, but tends to generate a large number of arguments/flags from comments?

@GraceNote Very good question. I would suggest to them that they continue their answering, but ensure they think about their comments before they post them. I would recommend that as a valued contributor (to answers), they should know the rules. I would ask them to follow them, and then I may have to resort to drastic measures (times suspensions etc).

@GraceNote Depends on the type of comments he leaves. I never encountered that case on AN.SX. But if I agree with the comments, which is likely if it's a big amount of flags, I would contact him and ask him to stop that behaviour. I like the friendly and polite tone on SX and would like to keep it that way.

A user contacts you through channels outside of Stack Exchange (email, Twitter, etc) to voice their disagreement with a moderation decision. How might you handle the situation?

Going forward, what do you see as the biggest hurdle for Android Stack Exchange and how will you tackle/deal with it?

@eldarerathis Has this happened before? I would ensure that they know why I made the decision, and ask them why the disagree - I would then give them the reasons for my decision. I would ask them politely, to attempt not to directly contact me, but accept that it may be OK in certain instances.

@LiamW: I know of at least one instance where it's happened, yes (not to me personally)

@eldarerathis If there is a policy that explains my decision I will point him to that. Otherwise, and that depends on the type of disagreement, I would ask on meta for consensus/feedback. Always explaining that if he thinks that he is right, meta is the way to change policies.

@GraceNote Tricky question. I believe that the biggest hurdle would be the fact that we are growing at a quick rate, and that the site may not be able to cope (due to lack of users). I would attempt to gather more users, and ensure everyone gets their share of the site.

@GraceNote Something has happened in the last month or so. We had an increase in traffic/questions. But I have the feeling the questions are mostly low quality from drive by users that seek for help. While there is nothing wrong with asking questions, the quality of the question increases the chances for a good answer. I think we need a shorter version of "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way", that, for example is displayed to every new user that tries to ask a question here.

How to Ask Questions The Smart Way: catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

@LiamW I'm not sure I understand. If we are 'growing at a quick rate', doesn't that mean we are getting new users?

@dymutaos Correct, however not all answer - most ask one question, the vanish forever.

For example that section is a good best practise for every SX site: catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#bespecific

I guess this segues into my next question a bit easily. New users often are not accustomed to the Stack Exchange system, and sometimes struggle to present themselves properly, either in the way they use the site or their attitude. How willing are you to work with "problematic" users, and at what point do you decide that someone isn't worth the effort?

Also, we're at the 15 minute mark now. This is usually when I suggest for participants to consider slowing down on asking questions as we approach the close, but I imagine that isn't necessary here, haha.

Oh man, how did I forget to ask that one? :P

@TimStone I actually skipped it for a while before asking it finally, haha.

@GraceNote I would be relatively willing to deal with problematic users - but people skills aren't my strong point, and I would be worried that I may make things worse. I would try my hardest however, and point them to handy FAQ's and meta posts. I would give up if the user doesn't take my advice, and continues to step out of line, even after multiple emails/messages etc.

@GraceNote The most important question this evening. I think we need a good solid FAQ, that warmly welcomes new users and explains in easy words what is expect from then and how the site works. I don't like the idea that a mod has to explain that to every new user again and again. "Problematic" should be reminded about the etiquette and if nothing changes appropriate actions should be considered. But that depends on the individual case.

In my experience, the community usually takes care of "problematic" users by steadily reminding them to be polite or to improve their posts.

That kind of peer pressure usually works best :)

Stealing this one from an older Town Hall but I think I should adapt it into a normal question... What is your subjective assessment of how this site has been progressing in terms of popularity and quality? Do you get more questions than a year ago? Better questions? What about answers? Do you attract new great users? Is the site succeeding and improving, in your eyes, basically?

@GraceNote Due to the fact that I haven't been here long, I am going to find this question tricky to answer. I believe that believe that this site is getting more popular, and that the amount of questions is increasing - the same can be said for answers. I am not sure we attract new great users, but we attract new users. I believe that the site is succeeding and improving.

@GraceNote I think that AN.SX has it's native space in the stackexchange network. The site is very popular according to the traffic stats. And we do have more questions then a year ago. See also my meta post: Statistics about Android Enthusiasts. Not sure if we attract new users, but everyone that struggles with a 1800000 pages thread on XDA is very happy on AN.SX. The site is on a good way, although the diversity of the Android ecosystem makes it hard to answer every question.

How many Android devices do you own and utilize on a normal basis?

We will never be like TEX.SX, although that should be our goal :-D

@GraceNote I own 3 Android Devices. A Galaxy S running CM10, and Thinkpad Tablet running stock Android and a Kindle Fire running CM10. I use mostly the SGS and the Thinkpad Tablet. The Fire lies around the living room.

@GraceNote I own 2 Android devices. My SGS2, and my Arnova GBook. I use my SGS2 all the time, and my GBook (which isn't that good), to listen to spotify offline at night ;)

My SGS2 runs CM10, whereas I just managed to root my GBook with difficulty.

Well, since we're approaching the end by now... closing thoughts from the candidates?

@GraceNote Hmm. Closing thoughts. I believe I could bring to this site as a moderator - I could improve flag times for when the other mods aren't online, and I could help with the general 'moderating' of the site. I believe I satisfy the pre-requisites of a moderator, and I believe I understand the theory of moderating on the SE network :)

@GraceNote I'd like to thank everyone involved in Android Enthusiasts: staff, mods and the active users. Take your time to vote.

This marks the end of our Town Hall. Thank you to all of the candidates for their time, and to all others who came here to ask questions and to support the candidates. Good luck to everyone as this election approaches its close!

@GraceNote And So would I @Flow. I believe that this site can prosper - don't forget to vote all!

As mentioned, @TimStone will be making a digest of this that will be available after this at some point. Candidates who could not make it to this event are free to come in and post their answers to all of the questions. TimStone will delay making the digest until all answers are in.

Thanks for coming guys, enjoyed reading your responses and best of luck in the election :)

Thanks @BryanDenny

@BryanDenny Thanks :)

(Could I get a pin on the closing thoughts question? ♪)

Thanks to everyone for applying. Even if you don't get the moderation, I'm thankful you guys are actively helping this site grow in quality.

@GraceNote Can't you pin yourself? O_0

Since 2 mods are hear. I'd like to ask @BryanDenny @eldarerathis about how they see the feature of Android Enthusiasts. If you got the time

@Manishearth I can't star my own messages.

@Flow: Sure, I've got time

@GraceNote Ah, star... not pin :P Looks like you unpinned it anyway :)

@Flow the future? Well, historically, we've been growing quite a bit. But as it was mentioned, we get a lot of of "one-off" users that come and ask a question and never return. The hardest problem for us is retaining users and keeping good people around to provide answers

If you guys have any questions about being a mod or anything we could probably field that too

@Manishearth I did, as I got some stars. ♪

:)

@BryanDenny Sums up my thoughts largely. In terms of visits and questions we're definitely growing, but the subset of members that actually answer questions is unfortunately fairly small

Personally, I've seen a lot more flags of late than there used to be (just means that we are growing and need more mods :) )

@BryanDenny I saw the same increase of flags.

I think we might hit some growing pains as we continue to get an influx of newer users, since there aren't as many regularly active users to keep up with editing, flagging, and the like.

@BryanDenny That's just the mod candidates trying to inflate their helpful count :P

But, by the same token, I've also been seeing more new users around answering questions and making other good contributions, which is a good sign!

@Manishearth haha! :)

@Manishearth Oh no, you realized :/

is realized spelt with an s or a z?

I thought it was an s :/

Both

both

Depends on which brand of English you use.

American English is a "z", but the rest of the world likely begs to differ

British, as I live in England ;)

UK vs US

grammarist.com/spelling/realise-realize

Does anybody know which big site linked us? I assume that something like this happened, because of the increase in traffic

@Flow No idea - you could use a site to check backlinks though...

The vast majority of our traffic is still Google

google, stackoverflow, xda

But the spike in nov here data.stackexchange.com/android%20enthusiasts/query/77392/… and the increased new user flag count can't be a coincidence

nothing in particular. a HUGE amount from google

andevcon.com/AndevCon_IV/index.html

Okay, I see that too, like nov 16ish?

androidpit.de/tipps-zum-akku-fresser-mobilfunk-standby-teil-8

backlinkwatch.com/index.php

That one I have no idea. Google hasn't changed its ranking algorithms or anything recently, has it?

I recall that when they did last time we saw an associated dip in our view counts suddenly

"associated dip"?

I forget exactly what they did, but right after they made a big (fairly public) change a lot of sites saw a decline in their analytics data

from the data I see, we dropped in visits in october and then it spiked by a lot in mid-late november.... but... if that dip didn't exist, then it looks like it is a linear increase of visits

It's still pretty substantial

Hopefully: more visitors = more quality answers

Anything the current mods would like to say to the candidates? I have no more questions for you guys atm. But if I have one I know how to reach you :)

Keep up the good work and thanks for volunteering your time to moderate

^^^ Exactly that :)

Even to the candidates that don't win, a willingness to volunteer is always great to see

Keep up the good edits, questions, answers, and flagging

Thanks to all, and will do :)

Thanks! Then it's back to "compiler implementation" for me. Bye

Cya, I'm also out too. Thanks again for coming

Well, I'll start making my RNG

Is anyone still there?

ME

I guess I'm too late... Had to work late today.. :(

@SurajBajaj Any questions?

Or are you here to answer the THC questions?

I'm going to read the discussion first..

kk :)

@SurajBajaj It's alright.

I guess most things may be discussed already..

@SurajBajaj You can still answer the questions

@GraceNote That would make me feel more responsible. Though my efforts will continue to be the best, I will have to put extra time as a moderator. As a moderator, my actions on the site should be an example to the AE community.

@TimStone I am open to feedback. And believe if opinions on meta make sense to me, it should affect my decisions. After all it's a people's site, you have to consider everyone's opinion and hear everyone's voice.

@TimStone Depends. If poorly written, edit button would be my first choice. If argumentative, I would prefer leaving a comment. Down vote would always be my last choice. I would rather try to improve (and ask the author to improve), than just down voting. However, last choice is still a choice! :)

@TimStone One thing I would want to change is requirement of 50 rep to add comments. It makes new users add comments as answers, which is ridiculous! I have seen a lot of posts like that on StackOverflow and a few on AE as well. And hence new users often gain too many down votes.

@Manishearth Less answers. More time on the site. More editing and moderator work. However, I would still like to answer as many unanswered question as I can. It's sad to see so many questions go unanswered.

@GraceNote I think reputation is more based on answering and moderation is about keeping the site clean and helpful as as possible.

@GraceNote One of the most active users on the site, one of the top editors (in recent times, as I am a comparatively new user). Top new user...

@GraceNote Add to that: Being an Android developer and a computer engineer, I am technically sound. :)

@dymutaos AE is a newer site. It has a lot of potential as Android community is growing each day... It will a feeling of joy to be able to help such a good resource. That will certainly bring a feeling of enjoyment. :)

@GraceNote Weakness.... Umm.. Not really but being a developer I need to spend some time in dev work. However, I have AE opened in a tab be it at work or at home! But yeah, when it's high time coding I will have to get off AE for some time.

@TimStone Meta, chat, communicate with other mods to discuss. Have a good discussion on meta and then decide.

@GraceNote Flow. He has a great contribution. Though I have not been able to follow any of the candidates. This is what I am guessing from the stats.

@eldarerathis Both. You need to proactively dig around to see if anything's wrong. Also respond to the flags by other users.

@GraceNote Well, wherever I find any such comment I will act on it. Ask them to be careful and be friendly with users. Everyone's opinion matters but it has to be put in the right way. It hardly matters how much rep you have if you don't know how to behave.

@eldarerathis What happens on Stack Exchange, stays on stack exchange. I would request that person to use SE channels to raise his concern. Contacting me in person won't help.

@GraceNote It would be great if new users can be redirected to a page or a video that explain them stuff about the site. As of now, I think reputed users should avoid down voting new users. They may have not understood the rules and format of the site very well. They will need time to adjust to the environment. Instead of simply down voting and flying away, explain them DOs and DON'Ts. Add comments to their posts, edit them. Make their entry to AE a happy beginning. :)

@GraceNote I am poor guy I tell ya! :( I own one (keep changing between CM 9 and 10, and other experimental ROMs) but I use bunch of them. :) You will find most of my friends' and family members' devices lying around me. I keep playing with them and also use them for testing my apps and experimenting some new stuff. :)

@GraceNote Well, I am really glad I nominated myself. To be honest, I was thinking about my new-ness on the site. But this whole process has helped me understand a lot of things about moderation and the way this site works. It also helped me connect to awesome people like you all. I don't know about results of the election, but this will certainly help me keep my contribution going and may be improving. And sorry for the delay. I had to work real late.

I hope I have not missed any question. If I have feel free to ping me back. I will try to answer ASAP. For now... it's 2:30AM here in India. I have to go sleep now. Alvida! :)

Thank you much, @SurajBajaj!

Thanks to you guys too. Keep up the great work. Cheers and have a good day!

Hi @SurajBajaj thanks for your answers

Not sure if somebody relatively new will be elected so soon. But your contributions are always welcome and I have to say, I like your answers.