Physics Town Hall Chat

Hi @LarianLeQuella: Before we start formally, why did you want to run for the position? If your motivation was inspiring other candidates to come forward, perhaps you can withdraw?

Manishearth

@RonMaimon Maybe there aren't that many candidates yet?

Ron Maimon

You mean that I should run and split the vote further? I wouldn't consider it. I want you an qmechanic to take it.

Manishearth

I'm still uncomfortable with the number of candidates (I would have really liked it if John/anna nommed)

Ron Maimon

12:47 AM

You guys are great, and the annoyance is great, so you aren't going to be rewarded for it.

Manishearth

Probably Larian feels that way as well about the candidates :/

Crazy Buddy

Me too... I expected Dilaton & John

Ron Maimon

I would have liked anna too, but some people want to spend their seventies relaxing.

Crazy Buddy

@RonMaimon Very true...

Manishearth

@RonMaimon :)

Crazy Buddy

12:49 AM

I saw anna's post in meta

Dylan Sabulsky

@CrazyBuddy, which post?

user1504

I'd rather have Anna spend time writing her excellent answers than closing spam

Crazy Buddy

@DylanSabulsky that pre-poll. she replied to dilaton

Larian LeQuella

I have looked over the candidate list, and I actually agree with Ron (What is the world coming to), but I also feel that while I may not be a physics powerhouse, I do have at least enough familiarity with astronomy and cosmology to be a valuable member of the team.

Ron Maimon

Hi @LarianLeQuella: I am asking you (if you withdraw, I'll stop harassing you, it's not personal) because your written platform and moderation policy on other sites have not been the kind that I have expected so far on the physics site. In addition, your areas of expertise lie elsewhere than physics. Please, can you clarify (before we start) if you can withdraw, now that qualified people have stepped up?

Manishearth

12:51 AM

@RonMaimon Oh, we cant

The nominations are locked

Ron Maimon

@LarianLeQuella: Oh, ok, nevermind.

Grace Note

Yeah, nominations are locked once the election phase has begun.

Crazy Buddy

@RonMaimon Yeah, they're locked. But, I believe you have a lot of expectations from Larian

Eh...?

Manishearth

David Zaslavsky

@Grace should we clear stars before this starts?

Manishearth

12:54 AM

@GraceNote Ought we unstar

Ron Maimon

@CrazyBuddy: Nearly nobody wants to be where they aren't wanted, and if you tell a person that you don't want them, it might be a prod. I don't want Larian as moderator, and I have said so to him, because I can't trust that he'll put scientific truth over policy, as I expect of all people who moderate physics, or any other site with science content.

Manishearth

?

Crazy Buddy

@Manishearth Hey Manish, you're a lot more active I see

Manishearth

@DavidZaslavsky jinx

Crazy Buddy

at morning

user1504

12:54 AM

I don't think it's necessary that Larian withdraw. But in light of his apparent history with Ron, it might be better if he adopted a completely hands-off policy with respect to Ron's questions and answers. Let other moderators handle that interaction.

Grace Note

@DavidZaslavsky I'm doing that right now but I'm also cheating and stealing questions as I go down the list.

David Zaslavsky

@GraceNote good call

Manishearth

@CrazyBuddy Well, normally I'm awake till 6:30 since it's vacation time. But there was the THC, and then I had an Android development workshop at 8:30, so I decided to wake up at 5:30 instead :)

Larian LeQuella

@user1504 Not having to do anything with Ron would be fine by me. It doesn't bother me, but it seems to set HIM off something fierce.

Dylan Sabulsky

I agree with @user1504; I think that is very fair. I mean he has the mod skills and some background in similar topics. With so many other mods, I think user1504's comment is good.

Crazy Buddy

12:57 AM

Shall I return within an 8 minutes break?

someone?

Grace Note

If you need it, sure, @CrazyBuddy.

user1504

@Manishearth: THC usually puts me to sleep...

Grace Note

If you have to leave early, that is also fine. I know you have to head to college right after this.

Ron Maimon

@user1504: That's fair, but it's not enough--- I am not personally afraid of Larian's moderation as much of the inexorable replacement of hand-off policy with hands-on policy that will come if he is elected--- I am just a test case, a canary, and this canary has died on skeptics, and died on meta.stackoverflow. I am just trying to make sure it's ok for folks who come here with ideas, that they will be heard and not censored, and that ideas will be treated fairly.

Larian LeQuella

LOL! @Ron... Seriously dude?

Ron Maimon

12:58 AM

I am purposefully grating, and purposefully honest, because tolerating this is required to allow science.

@LarianLeQuella: Yes, seriously.

Anna Lear

Well, it's a good thing then that we have multiple moderators and many site users who are able to reverse mistakes if any were to happen.

Ron Maimon

If you do not allow "You guys are full of crap", "this is complete nonsense...", "What Einstein says is not so stupid", and other Pauli-ism's.

Dylan Sabulsky

@RonMaimon, I see your point. I know you may disagree that there is a checks and balances system in the SE way, but I think with 6 mods there will be.

David Zaslavsky

@DylanSabulsky there will be 4 mods

Ron Maimon

@AnnaLear: There are no checks and balances. I have never had a moderator action reversed, because other mods are never hostile to other mods, because they walk in their shoes. If you had anti-mods whose only role was to reverse mods, it might work.

Dylan Sabulsky

12:59 AM

@DavidZaslavsky, sorry, thank you for the correction

Grace Note

Welcome to the Physics Town Hall Chat

4

Manishearth

@DylanSabulsky Even with three mods there is (on Chem). We generally discuss most of our actions and we have reversed actions done by each other in the past. Don't know how much discussion happens with the physics mods though...

Grace Note

Before we begin, I have a big opening text. Please withhold all of your commentary and questions until after I clear through it all.

Ron Maimon

The fact is, moderation is usually a one-way street, closing questions and deleting them, without any checks. Other mods don't intervene. I'll shut up now.

Grace Note

We're just here to get to know the candidates and ask questions regarding the candidates views on moderation that may help in voting.

This chat is intended to collect answers on questions of moderation from the candidates. For the duration of the event, please limit your posts to questions for the candidates (and answers to such questions if you are a candidate) Please use the h bar for auxiliary discussion; off-topic conversation will be deleted silently so that we may stick to the Qing and the Aing.

Dylan Sabulsky

1:01 AM

so who starts?

Grace Note

A few notes about the format:

The format is open, feel free to ask your question(s) unprompted, however please be mindful of whether or not candidates have answered the previous questions so that they don't get behind and start missing questions. Other than that, feel free to jump in.

Candidates, be sure to use the reply feature so that questions and their answers are linked together. (Hover your mouse over the left of the message, click the down arrow, click reply)

It's a good idea to bold your questions (use ** or __ around it) to make them easier to see. When a question is asked, I'll star it - please star it yourself also to help! Please save stars for the questions so that candidates can refer to the star list to make sure they haven't missed a question.

I will clear stars and remove bold when they are not attached to a question.

@TimStone will be creating a digest version of the town hall chat after it is completed. This digest will take the form of a question on meta, containing all the questions asked as well as their answers for easier reading.

There's a system message up on the site, so we may get some stragglers joining us if they're around at this hour.

Crazy Buddy

Back in time... Just went for taking an ice-cold bath in morning :)

Grace Note

@ChrisGerig and @user1504 and @Larian and @CrazyBuddy and @Manishearth are the candidates that I spy present. Let us begin!

3

Crazy Buddy

Sure Grace

Anna Lear

@RonMaimon Lest we get into a "well, I've seen it/well, I haven't" argument, let me just note that there's us - the community managers. We watch the mods. You're always welcome to contact us privately if you feel moderators aren't acting appropriately. And with that, let's focus on the townhall. :)

Ron Maimon

1:05 AM

@LarianLeQuella: what is photon rho mixing?

2

Grace Note

I'll start off with what someone colorfully called... something that I forgot already, like a pride barometer or something. Anyway! What do you believe is or will be your biggest weakness as a moderator?

5

Ah, it was "Official false modesty meter calibration query". That was it.

Larian LeQuella

@GraceNote My lack of indepth physics knowledge to the point of most of the questions that are discussed here. My field (in terms of physics) is astronomy/cosmology. That said, I take my cues from the community, not by what I personally think is a right or wrong answer.

Manishearth

@GraceNote For one, I am only an undergrad student of physics. This means that I may not have the expertise to fully understand all posts. As a moderator, I know that I generally don't have to deal with such things, but if I do have to do with it, I may need the aid of a theory-savvy mod/community member

Ron Maimon

@LarianLeQuella: Do you think it is sufficient to listen to a mob to determine what photon rho mixing is? Or should you find out for yourself before moderating such a question?

Chris Gerig

@GraceNote In deciding when to delete comments and how many to be cleaned up but still preserve the content.

Crazy Buddy

1:08 AM

My weakness - Lets see... One big thing is I'm still an undergrad.
Several comments responded to my nomination, Rory's comment is good. Detecting good/bad questions. "I see a question - I like it and vote it up. There's a probability for other users to vote it down

user1504

@GraceNote I'm likely to have a low tolerance for crackpot questions. I've seen other physics discussion forums over the years have their signal to noise ratio degraded by too many crank questions, and I'd like to avoid that here.

Grace Note

Alright. Reverse side. What is one contribution you feel demonstrates that you can be a good moderator?

4

Crazy Buddy

@GraceNote How would I detect it? Maybe I have to discuss with someone about it...

Larian LeQuella

@RonMaimon I would of course research it. While I don't have indepth knowledge on a subject, I know where to find good information, and in this particular case I would discuss with the other mods

Ron Maimon

To all the candidates--- how important is it to you that people with absolutely no social skills are heard and protected from mob harassment?

Larian LeQuella

1:09 AM

@GraceNote Could you clarify: What do you mean by contribution? As in an answer to the site, or a trait that I would bring?

Grace Note

@LarianLeQuella Either way works. Whatever you think you bring to the table that best represents your capability as a great moderator.

Larian LeQuella

@RonMaimon Irrelevant. The answers should stand for themselves.

Manishearth

@GraceNote (1) My activity on the mother meta and multiple child metas (Phy, Chem)--I like discussing policy and community building. (2) My moderatorship on Chem.SE -- no hitches till now :)

Crazy Buddy

@GraceNote I'll always be around. Rather than cleaning up messes, helping other users, I have just now entered into community-building. Like I say everytime, I'll follow the Etiquette and help with new users. I generally prefer not to vote down new guys

Dylan Sabulsky

@LarianLeQuella, Can you explain to us what your background in Astronomy and Cosmology is? I think what expertise you DO have will be useful here; we see questions on astronomy, cosmology and orbital mechanics with decent frequency. We see we have a few passionate undergraduates here; I would like to be familiar with what your base knowledge is. I don't mean this as an inflammatory question; I think you can contribute and through this maybe you could answer some people's doubts.

2

Ron Maimon

1:11 AM

@LarianLeQuella: Is it sufficient to listen to a cross section of opinion to determine scientific truth, or must you understand it deeply yourself? If you don't understand it yourself, would you butt out completely?

Chris Gerig

@GraceNote My knowledge of physics and use of rigor in math, coupled to my nit-picking of tags and not having people demand homework solutions.

Larian LeQuella

@GraceNote My experience modding Skeptics and Astronomy as far as having familiarity with the tools. Also, I have a laize faire attitude to many types of mod activities as long as actual community standards are not violated.

Dylan Sabulsky

I know you were in the air force, which is promising to say the least.

user1504

@GraceNote I think you'll see if you look at my comments and contributions to meta that I try to calm down angry discussion while still helping to ensure that unpopular points of view are heard.

Larian LeQuella

@RonMaimon If I have no understanding of the subject matter, yes I will butt out. If communityy standards are violated (i.e. You're being an unmitigated jerk) then I will take community level standard actions.

zephyr

1:13 AM

@LarianLeQuella what would your moderatorship bring to the community which would compensate for the potential loss of our 2nd most active member?

Grace Note

I appear to be on a roll of some sort, so I guess I'll continue in the same direction. Of the other candidates, who is the one user you think would be most qualified for the position of moderator, and why?

4

Dylan Sabulsky

@ChrisGerig, I like that policy on homework! We get a lot of intro/freshman physics questions, with no thought added too them! No work, no conceptual questions! I've been guilty of answering a few.

user1504

@GraceNote Qmechanic.

Manishearth

@RonMaimon Well, it depends on the "mob harassment" in question. Generally, these things ought to be locked and discussed on meta, calling a community team member in if necessary. In the end, it depends on which party is breaking the rules. If it is a content dispute (I'm right! No, I am!), then the dispute ought to be migrated to chat with possible post locking. Escalate to meta if it gets worse.

Larian LeQuella

@DylanSabulsky Undergradutae level with some graduate courses along with a storng hobbyist level

Dylan Sabulsky

1:14 AM

@GraceNote Qmechanic, hands down.

Crazy Buddy

@GraceNote OK.. QMechanic (or Manish)... After seeing many comments - I wouldn't stand a chance

Larian LeQuella

@zephyr I don't intend to do anything to drive Ron away. Again, I never look at his questions or answers unless they are flagged by the community.

@GraceNote EASY: Manishearth!

Ron Maimon

@Manishearth: What do you think of a hands off policy, where you do nothing unless absolutely required?

2

Dylan Sabulsky

@LarianLeQuella, that sounds great. I think concerns about your prep may not be valid; you are at a level with many other candidates I would think! I'm satisfied, thanks

Manishearth

@GraceNote Qmechanic, he is an active theoretical physicist, and has already been doing a lot of janitorial work in the past. A lot. After that, Larian, due to his experience on Skeptics.

user1504

1:16 AM

@RonMaimon I think it's important that they are heard when there's real content in their rantings. There are some participants who add nothing though.

David Zaslavsky

If I'm not interrupting, another repeat: For candidates who are also moderators of other SE sites, how do you expect your duties on the other site to affect your ability to moderate physics.SE, especially with regard to the time commitments involved?

4

Manishearth

@RonMaimon Depends on what you mean by "absolutely required". If a comment discussion gets heated, there's nothing that bad about migrating to chat. If people are concerned about the voting till the dispute is resolved ("The wrong answer may get upvoted!"), I'd be happy to templock the post. I would only voluntarily (without being asked) lock a post in the context of a content dispute if absolutely required--if the participants in the dispute aren't willing to move to chat.

Crazy Buddy

@DavidZaslavsky Please excuse me. I'm not discouraging this. But, other moderators - I say, They've already got their chance. Why greedy for more? If they're becoming, what would other users do?

Larian LeQuella

@DavidZaslavsky I figure that it will actually help. It will give me more familiarity with tools and procedures. Also, it will motivate me to check around more often.

Ron Maimon

@Manishearth: Why move them to chat at all? Why not ignore them?

Manishearth

1:21 AM

@DavidZaslavsky I doubt it will affect it in any negative manner. Moderating Chem goes like this: Check front page, fix stuff, possibly close stuff, lurk. (And some discussion with other mods in the mod room). It takes very little time, so it won't interfere right now. If it does interfere later, I'll have to balance the two. A positive effect is that (1) I already am used to moderating a science site, (2) I can steal chemistry questions (j/k)

David Zaslavsky

@LarianLeQuella good point. I was thinking more with respect to time, if you have any comment on that (I edited my post)

Ron Maimon

To all the potential moderators: suppose every other moderator agrees a question should be closed, but you think it should be reopened. Will you reopen after they all tell you not to?

4

Manishearth

@CrazyBuddy It's not something to be "greedy" for--we want to help the community as mods, we nominate. As David has repeatedly said, moderation isn't as "glamorous" as it seems :)

Larian LeQuella

@DavidZaslavsky As @Manishearth said, mod actions are much easier than answering questions!

user1504

@LarianLeQuella: I can see from your history that your activity in physics pretty much stopped after May 5. Where have you been?

3

random

1:23 AM

How would you handle a user who has a personal grudge against you and runs around with their hands in the air no matter what you do just for the sake of calling you out?

7

Chris Gerig

@RonMaimon I doubt that would ever happen. But the desired answer is 'no', as I am probably misunderstanding the legitimate reason.

Manishearth

@RonMaimon Well, SE policy dictates that comments are not for discussion (the medium is anyway inadequate). Chat manages this better. And keeps it off the main question. Remember, we still have to hold up SE policy, unless we are allowed to use a different site-only policy (ask meta for that)

Larian LeQuella

@user1504 Astronomy SE closed back then, and it broke my heart. I have been weeping quietly in a small celestial corner. ;) (In all seriousness, I actually was just taking a break for a while)

user1504

@random In most cases, I would ask the user to take a break. I'd ask other moderators if they saw the same problem I did. In Ron's case, I'd be somewhat more careful. He does control my food supply after all.

Larian LeQuella

@random hehe, does this have any specific meaning? In all seriousness, I would need to confer with the other mods on something like that, and perhaps escalate it to the community directors.

Crazy Buddy

1:26 AM

@random Maybe, trying to talk with him. But, a chit chat wouldn't work for a "grudged" guy. Talk with other moderators personally. Then handle him rightfully. Well, I believe moderators do have a lot weapons. They have the utmost power you know... Put him under a timed bin, etc. like that

Grace Note

In what way do you feel that being a moderator will make you more effective as opposed to using the privileges available after reaching 10k or 20k rep?

4

Chris Gerig

@GraceNote Simply because I won't reach 10k in a desired time interval.

Manishearth

@RonMaimon Discuss with them in chat, if I haven't done that already. Maybe ask the community via chat/meta. We will have 5/4 mods on this site--enough to be able to hash out a resolution. If I still disagree, I would ask meta, like I said, but I wouldn't go directly against their collective decision. That being said, I have reverted mod actions on Chem a few times--but that was after leaving a note to the other mod (and asking him/her to discuss it with me if necessary)

Crazy Buddy

@GraceNote Moderators don't require privilege because they are the ones who contribute themselves towards community-development. This means they are far more than "trusted users". They've to do the clean-ups

Manishearth

@random I wouldn't. I'd let the other mods handle it, making a statement of my own if necessary. In such cases, I would take off my moderator hat and act like a normal user in the context of that meta discussion.

Larian LeQuella

1:28 AM

@GraceNote I think my focus is not so much on answering questions here, but rather giving back to the community by keeping it useful (as opposed to a Yahoo!Ask setting). Thus I doubt that I would get to those point levels. I am a fan of the SE community, and as such want to give back to it.

Ron Maimon

Which of the mods is willing to buck the other mods on conscience, while being the odd man out? Anyone?

random

@user1504 As Ron Maimon's pet hamster, is there any collusion with his running around hammering another candidate again and again? Simply put, is he your Super PAC?

3

Crazy Buddy

@RonMaimon No. We don't because we have meta, a private discussion zone (for moderators only) like that. What's that for? Maybe we'd discuss there and try not to reopen...

user1504

@GraceNote I'm not sure that moderator powers would make me particularly more effective than having earned 20k+ reputation. The moderator diamond conveys a little authority, but not as much as having earned the respect of your community. In any case, the question is moot for me. I'm not going to hit 10k any time soon.

Larian LeQuella

@RonMaimon Since I wouldn't be discussing the content of an answer, but rather community standards, I would be more inclined to say that the rules themselves would determine my actions, not me.

David Zaslavsky

1:32 AM

@random you're not helping

Manishearth

@GraceNote Well, I am rather familiar with SE policy, like I said, so I can help enforce and build upon it as a moderator. I don't have 10/20k tools yet--and if I did,I still wouldn't be that effective with them--there are a lot of restrictions on those tools that make them useful only if used by all the >10ks. I don't think that's happening currently (I hope we can change that)--a lot of the 10k+s have no interest in cleaning up

user1504

@random No, I do not collude with Ron. My biography is meant to indicate my respect for him and in particular for the anti-authority, judge-for-yourself principles he espouses. However, you should not believe anyone's claims about their identity on the internet. I might well be a dog.

Ron Maimon

To all potential mods: Do you agree that rules are bullshit, and that you need judgment and bending over backwards to make sure people aren't silenced?

Jaydles

@zephyr, @ron Maimon, let's keep it civil please.

Grace Note

We're at the halfway mark. Actually, it was 3 minutes ago. Let me remind that this event is for asking the candidates questions. If you have discussion, especially towards other participants who are not candidates, please do not bring it up in here for the duration of the event.

3

dmckee

1:34 AM

@zephyr That is uncalled for.

Larian LeQuella

@RonMaimon Ron, rules exist for a reason. You can't arbitrarily disregard or dismiss them for one person's sake. However, i understand that you and I have a "history" and am totally fine with not touching any of your questions or answers, no matter how many flags pop up... math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html

Dylan Sabulsky

For all the candidates, how will you try to deal with the flow of strictly homework questions from Freshman physics?

7

Chris Gerig

@LarianLeQuella That is a bad decision, a wrong decision, a stupid decision, and a decision that implies you should not be a moderator. QED

Crazy Buddy

@DylanSabulsky Like David does always, I'm doing it still... Perhaps, indicate them our homework policy, making them aware of closing questions, explain them how should they ask, etc..

Ron Maimon

@ChrisGerig: You might have just earned my vote.

zephyr

1:36 AM

why did someone clear my star?

Chris Gerig

@DylanSabulsky It is immediately closed until they have demonstrated their attempts and confusions. And then the responders must not simply reveal the answer, but should only provide sufficient hints. QED

Michael Mrozek

33 mins ago, by Grace Note

I will clear stars and remove bold when they are not attached to a question.

Larian LeQuella

@DylanSabulsky Which goes to my Yahoo!Answers comment earlier. I think those should be closed due to the community standards.

user1504

@RonMaimon I think rules are very useful tools. Some level of judgement is always required in applying them. In the case of one user, a question probably deserves closure as "not a real question". In the case of another user, we may have a newbie struggling to ask a good question.

Manishearth

@RonMaimon Well, as moderators we have to uphold the rules, so we can't really do that... If by "people being silenced", you mean suspensions--then I must say I don't like suspending a user unless absolutely necessary. That being said, I do think that a few rules aren't that good (as you said, bullshit). I still will uphold these, though I will probably try to get a policy change via meta/MSO.

Grace Note

1:37 AM

This is more for those who haven't been moderators elsewhere, but if you want to stab at it anyway... A diamond will be attached to everything you say and have said in the past, including questions, answers and comments. Everything you will do will be seen under a different light. How do you feel about that?

6

Dylan Sabulsky

I like the hardline responses I am hearing to just close them. I understand the need for help, but posting the question and no conceptual issue or at least work is not for here. Go to physics forums for that, right? Thanks for your answers @LarianLeQuella, @ChrisGerig, @CrazyBuddy

Larian LeQuella

@ChrisGerig While not a discussion it's something I cleared with Grace earlier. I don't want to drive Ron away, and he is displaying a "I'll take my ball and go home attitude towards me personally. I have no feelings one way ort another towards Ron, but he appears to display a persecution complex in regards to anything I do

Chris Gerig

@GraceNote Meaningless, and hence don't care.

dmckee

Allow me to note that some offhand comments I made back in 2008 and 2009 (on Stack OVerflow) would look pretty silly with a star next to them. Thankfully my history on physics was shorter and calmer.

zephyr

@LarianLeQuella does that not bother you? Doesn't it seem like the judgement of such a prominent community member should be given some weight?

Manishearth

1:39 AM

@DylanSabulsky Let it pass as long as they are conceptual questions; worry about it only if there are just too many. "Solve this" homework dumps should be commented on and closed (maybe with a time gap, though that's not really necessary since closing is a temporary state for improvement).

Chris Gerig

@LarianLeQuella No, you could never have cleared this with Grace because it goes against the flow and purpose of SE. No one gets off.

Larian LeQuella

@GraceNote I tend to be someone that is more lighthearted than most. I figure it will at least make things more fun. :)

Shog9

@ChrisGerig That's why there's more than one moderator per site...

And also us.

Ron Maimon

@Manishearth: By people being silenced, I mean, some crazy guy asking a -11 voted question which asks "does regge theory of linear trajectories explain why space time is curved?" who has 20 knowledgable people saying that he is a crackpot. This is Joel Scherk. I want to know if you will you make sure the theory is protected from deletion, and the comments and answers preserved, no matter how stupid and crazy it sounds?

3

Dylan Sabulsky

I dig that Manish. A bit nicer, but it allows room for something to be learned.

Crazy Buddy

1:40 AM

@GraceNote Maybe the old-time moral - you'll get every thing for what you have done :-)

user1504

@LarianLeQuella This is totally unacceptable. You're calling Ron a crackpot because gets a few points on a list that John Baez wrote for laughs? Do you really think his physics answers are incorrect? If so, you have no business moderating.

dmckee

@ChrisGerig Moderators often agree to lay off users for a while in order to avoid the appearance of a personal grudge...

We are trying to moderate and letting things get personal is counter productive.

Larian LeQuella

@zephyr No it doesn't really bother me because I have no stake in this. There are rules and standards, and we are supposedly civilized human beings. If someone has a personal problem with me, it is on their conscience, not mine.

Crazy Buddy

@RonMaimon Maybe this should be answered by a mod. I don't know their tools

user1504

@DylanSabulsky In most cases, I'd leave a warning that the question will be closed if it is not rewritten to very high standards. Most of those homework questions are indistinguishable from spam.

Chris Gerig

1:41 AM

@dmckee Which is precisely why it is your duty to be objective and don't ignore a problem.

Dylan Sabulsky

I'll group that along with Manish. Thanks, I like your responses

dmckee

No, Chris. Sometime your duty is to let others take care of a situation, because however impersonal you are it will look personal. THere is no getting around that.

David Zaslavsky

@dmckee maybe better if we stick closely to the questions for now

user1504

@RonMaimon I'm not sure there's any point in doing this. It's wasted effort if you lose the final vote anyways.

dmckee

It also serves a check on possible misuse of moderation powers.

zephyr

1:43 AM

@LarianLeQuella you are sidestepping the question. Ron thinks that your moderatorship will be bad for the community. Do you think you are justified in ignoring the judgement of such a prominent contributor?

Manishearth

@RonMaimon In such cases, I'd ask for the help of the other mods and act after a group discussions. Remember, posting your own theories can be considered off topic (see the "mainstream physics" part of the faq). Such things ought to be locked, moved to chat for the time being, and unlocked when they get resolved. Maybe closed if they aren't mainstream

random

How do you educate users who use the site as their own blog when they cling to a notion of freedom of speech to justify posting anything and everything regardless of scope and topic based on having a registered account?

3

Chris Gerig

@random This is a stupid question. He by definition gets kicked off for not adhering to the scope and topic-based structure.

Crazy Buddy

@random Try to advice them - through chat or somewhere - even a private message... Warn them of their activity. If not - WEAPONS away

Manishearth

As a moderator, what areas of site cleanup/site building do you plan to focus on?

4

Dylan Sabulsky

1:45 AM

I'm interested in what the candidates will bring to our community. They will be on more and will hopefully also answer more questions along with their mod duties. I think @LarianLeQuella will add answers to astro and cosmo, @ChrisGerig to mathematical phys questions and perhaps heavy math quantum stuff. What can we expect new candidates to bring to our community in terms of answers?

2

Grace Note

We're at the fifteen minute mark. Consider slowing the pace as we reach the close of the event.

dmckee

@CrazyBuddy Well, that's always worth a try, but...

Crazy Buddy

@dmckee any suggestions then..? perhaps- a pinch of advice ? :-)

David Zaslavsky

@CrazyBuddy If I remember correctly, you've said that you are not (yet!) a fluent English speaker. Do you think there is a chance of you misunderstanding people's comments while moderating, and if so, how would you prevent this from causing problems?

6

Chris Gerig

@Manishearth As stressed already, appropriate (de)tagging and appropriate steps to posting HW questions.

Larian LeQuella

1:46 AM

@random It would be time for using moderator tools (i.e. the mod chat) to make sure that I am not misconstruing some community action. I keep saying that I am liaze fiare (i.e. I leave things alone) unless there are flags. In that case, I would probably defer to a community manager on grievous violations. I don't do or take anything personally, but there could be appearances of that on anyone who has a persecution complex.

dmckee

@CrazyBuddy You just have to be aware that sometime you'll have to unleash the guns anyway. It's always painful but it is sometimes needful.

Manishearth

@DylanSabulsky I doubt it matters much--my answers will be on basic undergrad physics. As a moderator, I personally would keep at my current pace of answering, maybe improve it to what it used to be. Remember that on the main site, the diamond means nothing on an answer.

Ron Maimon

@Manishearth: Would you disallow non-mainstream thoughts from the site?

Crazy Buddy

@DavidZaslavsky Yes, David. sometimes, I'd definitely get a misunderstanding. Just Maybe - I could ask help from other mods privately like you or dmckee.

Larian LeQuella

@Manishearth Astronomy and cosmology in terms of content. Otherwise edits for grammar and spelling. Also, if there are references, prevent link rot and quote relevant information, etc.

David Zaslavsky

1:48 AM

I would point out that moderating has severely reduced my ability to answer questions. I expect the same is likely going to be true for whoever is elected.

Larian LeQuella

@DylanSabulsky Astronomy answers, like I did before my precious site was eaten. ;)

Eugene Seidel

It's spelled "laissez-faire"

Manishearth

@random Discuss, notify via chat, notify via mod message, suspend if it continues. It's completely OK if the content is on topic, though...

Dylan Sabulsky

Thanks @DavidZaslavsky, duly noted.

user1504

@GraceNote I've certainly said some less temperate things in my time here. If someone asked about them, I'd point out that the moderators would have been within their rights to close the egregious ones.

jrg

1:48 AM

@DavidZaslavsky I was about to say that. Mine dropped significantly.

Ron Maimon

To all moderators: Are any of you willing to say "I will allow all thoughts, mainstream or not mainstream, to be heard without prejudice, determined only by technical accuracy inasmuch as I can determine for myself?"

Larian LeQuella

@EugeneSeidel Thanks, typing too fast to keep up!

Manishearth

@RonMaimon Not sure... I probably would disallow such thoughts if it becomes a big issue (too many comment wars, etc). Otherwise, the community already handles these pretty well.

Crazy Buddy

@DavidZaslavsky True - I have seen your past & present posts. You'll become weak. Thats only true for a professional. Not for an undergrad. They have a lot of time with popcorns and so they could do the job with higher priority :-)

Ron Maimon

@Manishearth: Would you censor cold fusion?

Larian LeQuella

1:51 AM

@RonMaimon Ron, you don't dictate community standards. I cannot state that unequivocally. I take it you have read the FAQ here, and there will be instances where rudeness and threats (and the like) will not be tolerated.

Chris Gerig

@RonMaimon Another stupid question. The point is, if there is no math there to back it up, then it is likely (and justified) to be prejudiced.

Art Brown

Any thoughts on linking questions to relevant previous questions? I have a terrible time finding old stuff here. I've noticed qmechanic does a lot of linking. I suppose it requires wide domain knowledge.

7

Dylan Sabulsky

good one @ArtBrown

Manishearth

@RonMaimon Since I am not too knowledgeable about it, I have not expressed any views upon it on meta yet--they have too little weight in this case. These decisions are best left to those mods/community members who know the topic well. My own opinion on the matter (which I haven't voiced yet, since it has little weight) is that these should be handled on a per-case basis. If the community objects OR if there is heated discussion, then worry about them, otherwise just keep a watch.

Larian LeQuella

@RonMaimon I know not meant for me, but I don't censor answers or questions based on the subject. Remember, community standards. Topics aren't really dictated by community standards as long as ON TOPIC.

user1504

1:54 AM

:7133169 I'd love to see the duplicate questions more quickly closed. We spend a lot of time answering the same questions. I'd also like to deal with a certain set of cranks who've been making a lot of noise lately.

Chris Gerig

@ArtBrown Just takes patience, and is obviously a good idea for those interested/willing.

Crazy Buddy

@ArtBrown we'd just need to follow flags and do cleanups. Linking is perhaps not necessary. Many would flag for us. If we have got some knowledge in the field, we'd be happy to do the relating job. Even the SE engine shows related questions in side bar. Moreover - who are we? we are the members. We should've read several related questions already...

Manishearth

@RonMaimon (cont) If the community comes to a clear consensus on this, I shall follow the new policy.

Grace Note

As we approach the end, parting thoughts from the candidates?

Ron Maimon

@Manishearth: If there is consensus that all cold fusion should be deleted from the site, and everyone agrees, will you buck them all and say "no way"?

Grace Note

1:56 AM

You can ask, @DavidZ. My question isn't meant to be the final question, it's just the last one I ask.

Crazy Buddy

why remove the question... David - C'mon please add up

Larian LeQuella

@ArtBrown I wish that SE had a function like the old (old) Digg site did when you submitted stories. That would make it easier to do that. In the case that I could find the linked question, I would allow that, however it may need a refresh on an answer, so keeping repeats open could be beneficial. Again, community standards would drive the action.

David Zaslavsky

@GraceNote oh ok then

For the candidates (only!), is there something you think the current moderation team is doing wrong, that you would try to get changed if elected?

6

Manishearth

@ArtBrown Well, there's always the "linked" and "related" sidebars that do most of the work for you. I sometimes get some deja vu, and then do a search to find related questions to link/CV-dupe. But it';s a great idea that we should focus on crosslinking more, I may look into that the next time I check out new questions here

@LarianLeQuella We can get a community blog if we have enough willing to participate.

Larian LeQuella

@GraceNote I love the whole SE concept and community! I am here to give back. That is my only stated purpose.

Manishearth

1:58 AM

@RonMaimon Nope. Unless there are arguments for keeping the specific case.

Chris Gerig

@DavidZaslavsky The awareness of people simply answering homework-style questions, defeating the purpose of homework.

user1504

@DylanSabulsky I think our moderator duties are largely separate from answering questions. But since you didn't include me in the list: I know quite a bit about QM, QFT, stat mech, particle physics, and string theory. I'm particularly interested in the mathematical details of these subjects.

David Zaslavsky

@ChrisGerig so, do you mean we should allow people to answer homework-like questions? Or are we not as strict about shutting them down as you think we should be?

Dylan Sabulsky

@user1504, I apologize! And thanks for answering! I'm into statmech in a big way myself, glad to see someone else who is into it.

Manishearth

@DavidZaslavsky Not really. I would prefer if we were stricter regarding one-liner/link only answers, and maybe mandate that answers should have some concepts involved. (We already sorta do, but there are a lot of tiny answers in the LQ queue. No problem in deleting them, but our current policy disallows it)

Chris Gerig

2:00 AM

@DavidZaslavsky Latter.

Larian LeQuella

@DavidZaslavsky I don't think the current mod team is doing anything wrong. I am surprised they aren't running again (or is there a rule against that, I haven't been a mod that long on Skeptics). As for changes, isn't that handled by the community directors.

Grace Note

This marks the end of our Town Hall's official time. Thank you to all of the candidates for their time, and to all others who came here to ask questions and to support the candidates. Good luck to everyone as this election approaches its close!

2

As mentioned, @TimStone will be making a digest of this that will be available after this at some point. Candidates who haven't finished, you are free to continue answering in here until you reach the end (and anyone who couldn't make it is also allowed to answer post-fact) - this end only signifies the end of new questions, not the time you have to answer.

David Zaslavsky

Thanks @Grace and other SE people

Crazy Buddy

@DavidZaslavsky NO. I bet you're still doing the job. Once, I had a negative thought on dmckee. (seen through his harsh comments) the first time I joined (about some 3 months ago), but now - I give respect to his comments. So, No - I think current moderators are a good fit. They are physicists

@GraceNote Thank you Grace...

Larian LeQuella

@GraceNote Thank you Grace!

Manishearth

2:01 AM

Thanks! :)

David Zaslavsky

@ChrisGerig huh, perhaps we could discuss this in the main chat, I know I for one would like to be strict about closing those down

Crazy Buddy

And, I think now, I could go - I'm dead, I'm late - with my end semester exams.

Grace Note

Since there's still some answering (and we have some more candidates coming up later tomorrow or today who couldn't make it today), I'd like to still hold off on discussion in here while the others are answering. Please maintain all discussion over in The h Bar and remember you can copy the permalink to quote if that's necessary.

David Zaslavsky

@LarianLeQuella this is an election for additional moderators to supplement the current team

Grace Note

Aww, @CrazyBuddy, sorry! I should've said earlier that you should've just ditched us for your exams.

Eugene Seidel

2:02 AM

Good luck with your exams, CrazyBuddy!

Larian LeQuella

@DavidZaslavsky Ah! That makes sense now. ;)

user1504

@DavidZaslavsky Generally, I think they're doing a fine job. I've indicated elsewhere that I'd be a little more aggressive with some of the crank questions I've spotted, but other than that, I have no real complaints.

drake

To all candidates: What do you think about the number of questions which are posted? Too many, too few?

3

Manishearth

@drake Too many not-so-conceptual ones, too few really good ones. We nee to improve quality. Our community may not be able to handle more quantity yet. As graduated SE sites go, we're still pretty small, though...

Larian LeQuella

@drake I have been absent for a while, so I can't fairly answer that question. However, a quick perusal, I find myself in agreement with Manishearth

drake

2:11 AM

Are you going to do anything to improve the quality? What?

user1504

@drake I'd like to see more high quality questions, and about the same number of questions overall at the moment. I want to see questions which attract helpful and knowledgeable users, so that the community becomes stronger as it grows. On the flip side, I'd like to see fewer questions which turn off these users. None of which makes me unique.

Manishearth

@drake Commenting on new questions, asking that they clarify what concepts they are asking about and emphasize those. Maybe move meta for stricter restrictions on qs. Though my primary focus (in the context of quality) would be on non-conceptual/tiny answers--like I said, current policy allows them.

→ 10 messages moved to The h Bar

drake

Wait, wait.

Manishearth

@drake ?

Dylan Sabulsky

To the h bar !!!!! XD

user1504

2:26 AM

@GraceNote If elected I will serve. But you should consider voting for Chris Gerig or Manishearth. I've been impressed by their answers tonight. Chris, in particular, seems to have put a good deal of thought into how to deal with unconstructive questions.

Manishearth

11:30 AM

THC 2012

11 hours ago, 1 hour total – 189 messages, 19 users, 112 stars

Bookmarked 51 secs ago by Manishearth

anna v

12:26 PM

@user1504 I just want to say that your compounding anonymity with a userxxx does not help in distinguishing your contributions from a number of userxxxs. If you seriously want to become a moderator at some point you should adopt a recognizable nametag. That can also be anonymous but it will help us build a data base about you. It is only lately that I identify you as "1504".

@user1504 I mean a data base in our head.

Alenanno

@annav Yeah, I agree with that. It is just a matter of "fast recognizing" a person by its nickname.

Tim Stone

4:39 PM

@GraceNote In just a bit, actually, in case anyone was getting impatient and/or curious :)

Grace Note

@TimStone We've still got candidates to respond, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't know how long you usually give 'em.

Tim Stone

Ah

Well, I usually try to wait until they're almost all in, if only because I can't edit in their replies if they show up too late (shakes fist at edit rate limiter)

I've got some work to take care of anyway, so I'll see where everyone's at after lunch.

Grace Note

Okiedokie.

By the way, Android Town Hall Chat in 1.5 hours.

Yannis Rizos

→ 18 messages moved to The h Bar

Tim Stone

Aye

THC 2012

Transcript for

Physics Town Hall Chat