Chat and stuff.

Welcome to the Electrical Engineering Town Hall Chat

We're just here to get to know the candidates and ask questions regarding the candidates views on moderation that may help in voting.

A few notes about the format:

The format is open, feel free to ask your question(s) unprompted, however please be mindful of whether or not candidates have answered the previous questions so that they don't get behind and start missing questions. Other than that, feel free to jump in.

Candidates, be sure to use the reply feature so that questions and their answers are linked together. (Hover your mouse over the left of the message, click the down arrow, click reply)

When a question is asked, I'll star it - please star it yourself also to help! Please save stars for the questions so that candidates can refer to the star list to make sure they haven't missed a question.

@TimStone will be creating a digest version of the town hall chat after it is completed. This digest will take the form of a question on meta, containing all the questions asked as well as their answers for easier reading.

There's a system message up on the site, so we may get some stragglers joining us.

For candidates, I spy among us: @W5VO @Madmanguruman

And, well, let's begin!

Very good. I'm ready to start!

same here

I guess I'll start off with a common question: A diamond will be attached to everything you say and have said in the past, including questions, answers and comments. Everything you will do will be seen under a different light. How do you feel about that?

(I can't star my own posts, only pin, so... thanks)

We have some others coming in - don't be shy to ask more questions while the candidates prepare their answers

New users often are not accustomed to the Stack Exchange system, and sometimes struggle to present themselves properly, either in the way they use the site or their attitude. How willing are you to work with "problematic" users, and at what point do you decide that someone isn't worth the effort?

@GraceNote I feel like I have behaved maturely in the community, so I don't have an issue with my previous comments and actions. I try to not take sides, and try to understand where everyone is coming from. This lets me feel better about having a more official stance in the community.

@GraceNote All new users obviously deserve the benefit of the doubt when getting their feet wet with SE sites in general. Other moderators and senior users have taken the time to steer new users in a good direction, and of course I am more than happy to take that time as well. I guess that someone isn't "worth the effort" only if they demonstrate unwillingness to put effort into improving their interactions with the site. Someone who's unsure but willing to keep trying is certainly worth helping.

When you see a question with major issues (poorly-written, argumentative, etc.), what tool do you reach for first?

Everything you vote on (both close and delete votes), once elected, will be a binding Super Vote. How will this change your voting habits?

@TimStone The best tool would be a sub-question comment, to give the original poster a chance to fix things up without downvoting. Downvoting should not be a first-resort tool in my opinion.

@GraceNote Obviously binding votes will require a calm demeanor and certainty. I would expect that for clear non-abuse situations, I would defer to comments instead of voting.

Moderating is a lot of work. Do you expect to be able to keep answering questions or will you spend all your time here moderating?

@GraceNote I expect that moderation will cramp my reputation, so to speak, but I intend to still put in my $0.02 on topics that I'm passionate about.

Relatedly a bit, Reviewing, acting upon flags, voting to close - all gets repetitive more so as a Mod because you essentially don't have vote limits. What steps do plan to take to keep from getting burned out? If you do get burned out, how will you handle this?

@GraceNote I'll answer that question a bit in reverse. A user isn't worth the effort when the user keeps causing issues with established users, and does not show any indication of improving their behavior. I will work with a user until it becomes clear that the user is unwilling to change.

@GraceNote I think that if moderation starts to become a chore, I would revert to a regular user's perspective and divert some of my focus to answering questions. That plus 'going outside', 'reading a book', 'having a beer' ... the usual stress-busting activities : )

Do you feel like a representative percentage of the community participates in your site's meta? Based on that, how strongly do you think feedback presented on meta should factor into your decision making as a moderator?

@TimStone My selection is usually (in order of severity, from least to most) Edit, downvote, close, flag.

Two highly respected members of the community get in a comment war on a question. They both flag each other's comments and are cussing and it is clear that this is beyond a heated argument. What do you do, what don't you do?

@TimStone I don't think the general population plays much with meta. That said, most of the power users in meta have good ideas about how the site should work, and their opinions are valuable. I certainly would take their thoughts into consideration.

@GraceNote I vote to close a lot, and many times I rely on the community to help decide on borderline questions. This will cause me to vote more cautiously, and in some cases not "cast the first stone".

@GraceNote Comment wars are challenging. It's important to identify misunderstandings that could lead to further escalation (comments taken as insults, for example) and take action to defuse the situation. Locking down a thread with both sides still 'hot' can be as dangerous as taking no action at all. Cooler heads need to prevail. I'll try to douse the flames as best I can.

Why do you want to be a moderator (i.e., as opposed to a user with privs via high rep?)

@Madmanguruman That did not answer the question for me. I don't see a statement of what action you would take. No need to correct if you do not want to, just sharing.

You strongly disagree with an action taken by a fellow moderator. How do you proceed?

@GraceNote I spend a lot of time on the site, but I don't answer a lot of questions. I focus on quality over quantity, and I hold my answers up to my own high standard. I look for As a result, I currently spend more time reading/improving questions and participating in community discussion. I don't expect it to affect my question answering rate significantly.

@TimStone I'm in a mentoring role in my current career. I get satisfaction from empowering people to grow and prosper, through guidance and sharing my experiences. I would like the same opportunity with this site and its users.

@Kortuk Fair enough.

@Madmanguruman you may not be able to edit now(more then 5 minutes), but if you would expand on what actions you would actually take I would appreciate it. This has actually happened multiple times.

They can find it if you reply to the question again.

@GraceNote Preventing burnout is very important. Repetitiveness and frustration lead to burnout. The moderator team should be willing to trade off responsibilities and give some mods breaks as needed.

Yeah, just post a second reply to the same question

@GraceNote From the top: I would try and identify any comments that may have been misinterpreted as provocation, and attempt to defuse the situation by clearing up those misunderstandings. I may also use private messages to insulate both sides from 'he said / she said'. If there is legitimate bad blood and neither side wants to back down, it may be for the best to close the question and let both sides cool off.

How would you deal with a user who contributes good content to the site, but consistently causes trouble in other ways (is rude, confrontational, makes bad edits/tag wikis, etc.)?

@GraceNote Being a moderator means being willing to 'take the heat' for these sorts of decisions. Just part of the job.

@TimStone I think that Meta participation is improving, but I don't think that it is the majority (number-wise) of users. Feedback on Meta is very important to me - it is how the will of the community is forged into a consensus.

@GraceNote Don't take sides, consider a brief suspension for users if the language is abusive, and delete offensive or inflammatory comments.

We're halfway through... yep, just Tim and I slogging through the traditional questions, haha

@GraceNote You are covering most of the questions I would ask, I dont have much experience with this :)

@GraceNote It's a judgement call, as are most things in life. I've had to work with people who produce good work but were utterly miserable to work with (rude, insulting, demeaning) - a certain amount of badness can be tolerated, but can quickly poison everything. I think I would escalate efforts to rehabilitate the user, but if the badness persists, I think I would cast them out.

That happens often, dont be scared to answer. When you start we will discuss what we do to deal with this.

@GraceNote I don't expect consensus. I would of course ask for an explanation, as the other mod may well be aware of something that I'm not. If I'm not satisfied with that, I would state my case and ask the other mod to consider my perspective. Ultimately, I don't believe I'd trump the other moderator's decision, since we're all peers.

A post is flagged. All moderators have looked at it. No one's taken action/cleared it because you're all unsure what to do with it. What do you do now when there is no consensus?

@GraceNote I'm trying to think up something new for once...but no luck so far, heh.

@TimStone I want the ability to help the community directly. I want to help make sure that potential issues are handled as quickly as possible, and help improve and grow our community.

@TimStone Inertia can be as bad as a hairtrigger decision. In a vacuum of indecision, I'd take whatever action I deem as appropriate. There can be no reward without some risk, after all.

A recent topic that's come up in Stack Exchange is the concept of being nice, or the "Summer of Love". How do you plan to focus on welcoming new users without lowering the quality on the site and while still maintaining the standards?

@jmort253 Comments and personal messages don't lower the site quality. They're the best tools to get new users up to speed quickly - comments to steer questions and answers in better directions, personal messages to get someone's attention without possible embarrassment.

@GraceNote I would first discuss the issue with the other moderator. If we are still at an impasse, I would ask all other moderators to participate so that the final decision would be more of a consensus than a 1v1 argument.

How familiar are you with the "moderation" tools available to normal users? (editing, closing, re-opening, flagging, 10k tools...)

Related question: We currently have a number of users whom often can be aggressive towards new users with quality concerns. They feel they are in the right as the questions low quality shows a lack of respect, although the same behavior is often acceptable on other forums. What ideas do you have for improving this situation, or do you find it acceptable?

@Shog9 I've edited many posts, and done my fair share of voting and flagging. I'm thissssssss close to earning the 10k tools (come on everyone, more power supply questions! lol) so I hope to have some level of moderation access 'very soon now' regardless of the election results.

@GraceNote If it is just being rude and confrontational, deleting the comments and rolling back changes, and giving warnings in the comments. More serious offenses would result in suspensions.

@Kortuk As with any public site, some people will hold your hand, and others will spank you. New users need to see that there's a mix of nice people among the bully-types, and need to be taught how to participate without inciting the 'haters'.

Is there anything about the way the site is currently run that you would like to change? If so, what would you try to change if you were to become a moderator, and why?

@Madmanguruman I was looking for a way to discuss how to actually improve it, yours just seems to imply agreement.

@TimStone Either act on the flag, or find a fair way to delegate "problem" flags, such as a rotating through moderators.

@Kortuk I doubt there's any way to change those stubborn types, given their rep and how they've resisted change in the past. Ultimately I think the best way is to empower the new users so they don't get intimidated and run to the hills.

@Madmanguruman Can I edit that to point to the question, or do you not want it as part of the transcript?

@Kortuk Go for it. I don't see any easy fixes to the problem otherwise.

(It'll get pulled in anyway :))

@jmort253 Comments are a good way to visibly address the issue, but care must be taken to ensure that the comments are not cold-shouldered or dismissive.

@Madmanguruman It expanded the answer for me in a positive way and gave me a more clear view of your thoughts :)

@TimStone I wanted to give them the option of being "on the transcript"

:)

@Shog9 I haven't had access to the "10k tools" since EE.SE was in beta, but I am very familiar with the moderation tools available to normal users - I use most of them regularly.

We're nearing the 10 minute mark... though I don't think we're running into issues there, haha

@TimStone Perhaps new users could get a moderator-approved list of 'good' and 'bad' questions/answers/comments as part of a sign-up orientation, much like the examples of good and bad questions listed when the site was on area51. This may help with those early questions that tend to get scrutiny.

@TimStone I feel that some new users may not stick it out if their first few attempts at interacting aren't successful. There is a bit of a learning curve associated with the site, admittedly. Maybe the first few actions a new user takes (new Q, new A) should need moderator approval before the hounds get released...

Tags are currently a point that is starting to come up on meta, what ideas do you have on ways to improve the way we are currently using the tag system?

@Kortuk The issue isn't the insistence on adhering to a higher standard, the problem is usually in how the high standards are articulated to the new users. Often, these users have valid points about the quality of questions, but they choose to act somewhat rude. The solution is to work with the existing users to explain things nicely, and to help encourage the new users to improve the quality of their questions and answers.

@TimStone The organization on the site (tag-wise) hurts my inner OCD. This would be my first priority project (after day-to-day moderation duties).

As we approach the close, final thoughts from the candidates?

@Kortuk Perhaps some auto-tagging logic may help - if certain keywords in the questions match defined tags, auto-populate the tag field.

Some nominees may not have the highest meta participation rates. How important is this, and will you commit to spending more time on meta?

oops, sorry, I saw "final questions" instead of final thoughts...

@jmort253 I don't have to be the last question

@jmort253 You got it in before the hour was up, I think we can accept it. ;)

@Kortuk Tags are tricky. With the flat tag structure (no hierarchy) there can be some really bizzare combinations that fall under a single tag. Tags should have better definitions (tag wikis) and non-trivial organization needs to be discussed in Meta. Cleaning tags is going to be a massive project, and I am willing to undertake it.

@jmort253 Meta participation is to me a moderator requirement. It's where the 'big issues' are discussed, so participation there is needed. I'm one of those meta lurkers - I read but don't generally talk. That being said, a new role would change my perspective and responsibilities, so obviously more meta participation would be no problem for me.

Well, that closes up our hour. Thank you to the candidates who could show up, and all participants who could make it. I know this was a bit of an... unorthodox time with little warning

Candidates are free to continue to answer questions they haven't reached yet

I think I got to everything. Thanks for the forum. Please remember to vote, everyone!

Good luck to all of the candidates, and I guess more sooner point, get some rest!

@jmort253 Meta participation is very important to me. It is the official way for the community to interact with moderators, and it is where the community and moderators come to a consensus on site policy. I believe I spend a decent amount of time on Meta now, but I can see the need to increase participation as site policy needs further explanation from an official source.

@GraceNote @TimStone thank you for helping put on this Town Hall Chat, I know we all appreciate the effort.

@GraceNote I'll take this first :). Since there are so many guys with more knowledge then me, I've always taken a step aside for them to give better answers, and spent more time in chat or meta. So I'd just continue in that direction, answering only where I know it can make a difference

@GraceNote Well diamond or not there is my name and my face attached to every post of mine, so I already take care of the quality of my posts. Other than that, I accept my limits and the fact that I can be wrong; fortunately this site allows to clarify yourself and correct some errors.

@GraceNote I'm quite fresh on the site, and I know the feeling when you don't know exactly how this strange site works. Therefore I try always to be as polite as possible when someone shows some misunderstanding. At the same time I know that it's not that hard to get in the mechanism if one is willing to, so I expect a bit of effort by the new users.

@TimStone Comment, and possibly edit. If I'm in doubt, I usually flag or try to discuss with other mods/users in chat. Anyway I always look for the best tool available, being it comment, edit or vote to close.

@GraceNote As said before, also as a common user I try to make sure that I'm taking the right action, so I wouldn't cast a vote to close if not sure about the need.

@TimStone I really like the discussions that raise in Meta, and as I said I spend quite some time on it. Most often I see only the usual ~10 members as active there, and their opinion is always interesting. Moreover, you can see all the different points of view about the site.

@GraceNote I'd invite them in a private chat to discuss in private (this applies to every long discussion). Then I'd try to listen to each one's reasons and mediate, keeping in mind that probably they are both adults and have their reasons, but also that there are things (like the mechanics of the site) that have a reason to be what they are.

@TimStone As I said I like the site and I'd like to see it growing in users and content. Since my technical contribution is not sufficient for me, I'd like to give a significant support to the staff, and give some relief to the existing mods.

@GraceNote First, examine again my position to make sure that I'm convinced about it. Then I try to discuss with him on chat, while looking for previous occurrences of that discussion and for evidences proving one or the other position. If it's a topic that needs debate, we may rise a Meta post to get the opinion of the community. If I'm proven wrong, I'll take a step back and accept the situation.