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12:00 AM
people are free to vote on reopening it like any other question.
 
but its kind of not easy
 
that's democracy for ya.
 
if it is on topic, valid and related to the faith and useful may be it should be opened
anyways I wanted to get it open :)
I will post about this on meta, just to get some attention
 
 
2 hours later…
2:04 AM
According to Quran/Hadith, what points to remember when choosing a bride/wife? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1523/according-to-quran-hadith-what-points-to-remember-when-choosing-a-bride-wife?atw=1 #wife
 
 
3 hours later…
4:43 AM
How do banks make money if interest is prohibited? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1509/how-do-banks-make-money-if-interest-is-prohibited?atw=1 #riba
 
5:38 AM
any mods online?
 
5:51 AM
just about to go to sleep - what's up
salaam
 
the answer in general
can i flag that answer
 
heh
 
for removal
 
yes please do
 
You mean 2nd answer?
 
5:55 AM
why don't you just DV and leave a comment for now
and flag for low quality
 
ok
@AnwarShah the CW one
 
i'm tempted to delete the one-line answer
 
well thats his answer
 
but i think we should give him a chance to improve it
 
yes, If i do, I'll do to the second one
 
5:56 AM
you dont like it DV
 
@Ashu what the problem with CW one?
 
the one-liner is not an answer
 
i mean to remove the CW tag from the answer
@Ansari yes i know
 
yes, I got the idea.
@Ansari flagged as such
 
@AnwarShah flagged as what?
 
5:59 AM
NAA
Not an answer
He introduced another topic in the answer
 
@AnwarShah actually i dont like tht flag because an answer can always be improved
or edited to fit the topic
 
But I flag, when I see a like that
on the current status of the answer
 
@Ansari thanks for spending time
 
you're welcome - thanks for bringing it to attention :)
we'll take care of it in a few hours inshaAllah
 
@Ansari TY :)
 
6:03 AM
Can I know, what the time in your location now?
 
@AnwarShah whose?
 
I wanted to know both.
But seems Ansari has gone
 
it 1:06 am in his place @Ansari
 
back
hahah yes it is past 1 AM here
 
@Ansari arent you going to sleep?
 
6:11 AM
Seems no.
 
@AnwarShah you live in india?
 
No.
but near
in the middle of India
 
middle of india isnt in india?
 
Replace White color in the Japan's flag.
not really middle.
 
wait KOREA!!!!!
 
6:13 AM
Are you kidding?
 
just a guess
 
replace white color with green color.
 
i dont know how Japans flag looks
but ill search just a asec
 
All white, in center a red circle - > japan
 
he's talking about bangladesh :)
 
6:15 AM
I live in Bangladesh.
 
yes i'm going to sleep in a bit
inshaAllah
 
We have green instead of white
@Ansari. good night
salam
 
@Ansari good night , salam
 
wa'alaikum ussalam warahmatullah
 
I need to go for power outage.
 
6:16 AM
@AnwarShah good bye
 
 
2 hours later…
7:49 AM
Is extra ibadah considered bidah? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1486/is-extra-ibadah-considered-bidah?atw=1 #bidah
 
 
3 hours later…
10:59 AM
Marrying a non-muslim http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1539/marrying-a-non-muslim?atw=1 #sourceidentification
 
11:22 AM
Asalam Alaikum
 
11:48 AM
Assalamu Alaikum
 
@yasar11732 Wa Alaikum salam
 
 
2 hours later…
2:02 PM
Assalamu Alaikum
 
@Ashu Wa Alaikum salam
 
@AlUmmat are you always online?
 
@Ashu most of the time :)
why do you ask?
 
Importance of Science in Islam? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1532/importance-of-science-in-islam?atw=1 #islamicrules
 
i thought the chat would be empty
 
2:09 PM
oh well I am working on other things and if someone comes in I ether catch them or they send something like the salams and I reply
 
oh good .... well how do you think a person should be rated - by the number of question he answers or by something else
 
by the quality of question and answer
or answer I mean
 
i think it should be based on the reputation to answer ratio
 
I don't really think that is fair, there are those with high rep and those with low, I really think it should be something other than rep
like the quality of answer
or the like the participation
at least something that will appear fair to all
do you understand @Ashu ?
Hello @AnnaLear how are you today?
 
2:30 PM
well Asalam Alaikum I am leaving for a while
 
salam
 
@AlUmmat Hi there, I'm doing fine, thanks. Yourself?
 
@AnnaLear U HAVE A CAT !!!!
thats nice
 
yes, I do :)
 
mom doesnt allow me to keep one
:(
 
2:34 PM
My family always had cats for as long as I can remember. I eventually got one of my own once I moved out.
 
@AnnaLear Lucky you.... Dont you like persian cats? ... Their Kittens look sooo cute
 
@Ashu Persians are adorable. Lots of fur, though.
 
That message looked really odd out of context.
stops trying to picture cute, furry Iranians
 
@AnnaLear fur makes them cute
 
@Shog9 Hah. I was wondering if that'd happen right after I posted it. Thanks for playing along. :P
 
2:38 PM
@Shog9 LOL!
 
@Shog9 lol
 
2:55 PM
@AnnaLear @Shog9 do those hollow stared chat comments remain forever?
 
@Ashu They expire eventually, but I don't recall exactly when.
 
@AnnaLear oh thanks for letting me know
 
@Shog9 14 days.... now i know.
thanks
weird refreshing message.... i hate them
 
3:27 PM
I'm here if you are @Flimzy
 
3:53 PM
How should I suggest tag merge?
 
4:05 PM
@yasar11732 click on the tag, like so: islam.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/ramadan
there should be a "merge" link or something
 
@yasar11732 Create a meta post, tag it [retag-request], and explain why the two tags should be merged. A moderator will respond.
This gives the community a chance to disagree with the merge
 
@ashes999 I don't have that button.
 
Note that you can propose a synonym directly from the tag page, if you have enough rep
 
@Shog9 I added it here:
0
Q: List of tag synonyms and tags to be burninated or removed

muntooWe'll need to merge tags/clean up. In the answer below is a list of tags that need to be turned into synonyms. Concerning which tag should be made 'dominant', this answer says: The practice on similar sites (e.g. Judaism ) is to make the English word a synonym for the transliteration. In tha...

 
@yasar11732 yeah, it's a mod-only feature.
 
4:08 PM
oh, my bad
 
It is ramadan and ramadhan, they are same thing spelled differently.
 
i doubt they need to be synonymed since they're so similarly spelt.
just a merge should suffice.
question is which one to merge them into.
i'd lean towards "ramadan" because that's easily the most prevalent spelling among the English-speaking world.
 
yeah, agreed
 
also in accordance to wikipedia's standard transliteration rules.
 
Merging is a moderator-only feature that effectively retags a bunch of questions without leaving any trace of the original in the revision history. Unless there are a lot of them, you can accomplish the same thing by editing. Synonyms prevent the use of a tag in the future by automatically changing it to the synonymous tag when the post or edit is submitted. — Shog9 3 mins ago
^^^ @yasar11732
Also,
Please post separate questions for each set of tags that should be retagged / destroyed. This becomes impossible to track otherwise. Use retag-request, burninate to categorize them. — Shog9 2 mins ago
 
4:13 PM
@Shog9 ok.
 
a Big List 'o' Tags is only useful for a short time when handling massive cleanup efforts; normally you'll want room to discuss each tag set on its own merit
 
Should I make a new topic for this one? I think mods are already looking into it, and there isn't much need for debate.
 
i'll just do the merge right now.
if people insist on recreating we'll worry about synonymizing it then.
done.
 
@goldPseudo Thanks. I like our mods' response time :)
 
enjoy it while you can. i'm heading off to work right now :p
 
4:44 PM
What guidelines should we impose on questions to ensure quality? http://meta.islam.stackexchange.com/questions/298/what-guidelines-should-we-impose-on-questions-to-ensure-quality?atw=1
 
5:10 PM
tag synonyms for sharia are halal, haram and punishment? i dont think so ... correct me if im wrong
 
5:52 PM
@Ashu I think you should make a meta post about those kinds of things. That is what @Shog9 said.
 
6:33 PM
@Ashu I think that's the proposal -- that those will be tag synonyms or merged together at some point
 
@ashes999 I don't understand why my last question is off-topic?
 
@yasar11732 do you mean the lead-on-head thing?
0
Q: to melt lead and pour it into cold water over the head -- have a place in Islam?

yasar11732There are some people that melt lead and pour it into cold water over a person's head believing that this would cure nazar and/or evil spiritual illness. If you don't understand what I mean, see this youtube video. Is this have any place in Islam?

 
yes
 
I'm discussing with Ansari and GoldPseudo
did you see this question closed as off-topic: islam.stackexchange.com/questions/61/…
 
yes.
 
6:37 PM
So that question pretty well epitomizes our approach, which is "we talk about Islam, not Muslims"
to me, your question seems a lot like a question about a certain group of Muslims -- not about Islam per-se
although you could probably argue it either way, which is why I didn't close it, but just commented on it :)
what do you guys think @goldPseudo and @Ansari?
 
IMO it's a question asking about the existence of a basis for a practice
my vote is on-topic
 
@goldPseudo?
 
7:37 PM
Is there anyone else in the room right now?
 
@HasanKhan I am here.
 
me too.
 
i'm kind of around
 
See its really up to you guys to define whats allowed and whats not allowed to be asked but here are my two cents. This site is a good place to learn about Islam. Often people do things in the name of Islam which gives world the incorrect impression about what Islam is. Asking the justification or source of the ruling encouraging the behavior helps us learn about Islam.
Its not about proving whether certain group of people are right or wrong.
 
it's actually not to us. We're more of a police force than anything, operating on flagged and otherwise inappropriate posts and comments.
when it comes to defining what's allowed and not allowed, we have the same voice as anyone else in the Islam.SE community.
like the question I cited -- I am a diamond mod, and my question is closed as off-topic. That really underscores the horizontalness of the site -- we're all equals here.
 
7:42 PM
yeah the only criteria are the answerable-ness and on-topic-ness of a question
 
Where answer could simply be. There is no authentic hadith or verse in Quran supporting this behavior.
If there is, one can mention it.
 
Whether we call it on-topic or off-topic this question, it would make an example for future questions like this one, so we better give enough thought about this question.
 
it's not about answering it; it's about how we define the scope of the site -- and what types of questions we allow, or don't allow.
 
And I vote for on-topic :)
 
If certain hadith is misinterpretted or verse is mistranslated to justify the behavior then it would also help a great deal in understanding the issue at hand
 
7:44 PM
remember, we won't answer every question about anything related to Muslims; our focus seems to be Islam, not practices or beliefs of Muslims.
 
I stress its not question about Muslims, Its a question about a practice in Islam whether it is compatible, encouraged or has nothing to do with Islam.
 
@ashes999 Yes, but it is hard to draw a line in there.
 
Agreed @yasar11732, hence why I commented, discussed with other mods, and did not close it.
for example, we had that question about the night of baraat; I believe that was also closed as "muslims, not Islam"
@HasanKhan see my comments; we obviously won't answer every question related to Muslims -- not here. That's not what SE sites are for.
I don't really agree with it either, but I see the benefits of defining a site narrowly like this.
 
When it is first said that this site is for Islam, not Muslims, I thought it meant for questions like "How many Muslims in America" etc.
 
Btw any of you guys follow quranweekly by any chance?
 
7:49 PM
this totally needs to be brought up in meta.
i'd do it myself, but i don't have time to make an actual post right now.
 
@ashes999 Would you put this on meta?
 
God willing I'll do it myself, but it'll have to wait until I'm off work (in like six to eight hours).
which would be inefficient, since everyone's discussing it now. :)
 
to melt lead and pour it into cold water over the head -- have a place in Islam? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/1548/to-melt-lead-and-pour-it-into-cold-water-over-the-head-have-a-place-in-islam?atw=1 #bidah
 
@ashes999 your question is closed because you're not seeking an answer rather trying to prove a point
It feels more like an essay in itself
you could have simply asked does Islam allow killing innocent people in any condition?
It would be very on-topic in that case. Part of the problem is that people race to close or downvote the question rather than improving it
its a collaboratively edited site right?
 
@goldPseudo I am making a meta post than.
 
8:05 PM
@HasanKhan I disagree. I've been saying from the start that I want expert questions. To bring in a "how do they justify X" by itself is, in my opinion, not expert enough; anyone can ask that. Doing your homework first and bringing up points of discussion are what differentiate this from just random forums and easy questions.
Read all the comments on that question. That will help you understand better.
There are also similar questions closed. I think Robert set a good precedent.
 
Here is meta discussion
0
Q: Should melting lead question be on-topic?

yasar11732The question Chat discussion I think this question should be on-topic because it is asking for basis of a practice. It has been said that this question should be off-topic because "islam.SE is about Islam, not Muslims". However, what I understand from that is questions like "How many Muslims ar...

 
until we get to that level of quality, we can help edit each other's questions to get there
 
just posted an answer
0
A: Should melting lead question be on-topic?

ashes999There are other questions on this site that pretty much define our scope. In Stack Overflow, this started with the famous "what is the favourite soft drink of programmers?" question. Which lead to the realization that tacking on "of programmers" could allow virtually any question to be asked. Sa...

@Ansari how is it that the Barat question wasn't closed? It seems very similar.
 
I think we should expand what is meant by islam.SE is about Islam, not Muslims. As Islam and Muslims aren't mutually exhaustive.
 
hmm not sure
 
8:16 PM
So if a Muslim does something in the name of Islam, is it about Islam or Muslims?
Not sure where to draw that line.
If you ask me, if a Muslim does something in the name of Islam, it is either part of islam, and on topic, or bidah.
I think asking if something is bidah or not should be on-topic.
I am going to add that to meta post :)
 
Robert set a pretty strong precedent. I'm not sure where we're going to go with this.
 
@ashes999 I don't know what do you mean.
 
0
Q: Should melting lead question be on-topic?

yasar11732The question Chat discussion I think this question should be on-topic because it is asking for basis of a practice. It has been said that this question should be off-topic because "islam.SE is about Islam, not Muslims". However, what I understand from that is questions like "How many Muslims ar...

 
13
Q: Islam SE: Not an Muslim Peer Support Group

Robert CartainoI recently closed a question which raises an issue we've only just been skirting around. Remember that the purpose behind an "Islam Stack Exchange" is to build a compilation of knowledge about the subject of "Islam" — You cannot reasonably hope to cover any possible questions of interest t...

 
@ashes999 Ok, I read that and agree with that. But what I am not sure about is that if my question was in "extra curricular topics" Robert was talking about.
 
8:26 PM
Yes, it's a grey area.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:38 PM
Salam Alaikum
 
wa 'alaykum assalaam
 
how are you today @goldPseudo
?
 
alHamdulillah
 
Alhamdulillah :)
 
just trying to work out an answer (in my head) to @yasar11732's meta question.
 
9:40 PM
Wa Alaikum Salam
 
which, God willing, i'll post when i'm off work.
 
how are you today? @yasar11732
:)
@goldPseudo Insha'Allah
 
@AlUmmat Good Elhamdulillah, you?
 
@yasar11732 good Alhamdulillah
 
@AlUmmat Did you see my last question?
 
9:42 PM
the one from the meta?
 
yes, and the one mentioned in it.
 
this one?
Should melting lead question be on-topic?
 
Yes.
 
I agree with you
both points actually
i read the question, the one your meta postr is about, it does not seem off topic
 
right now i'm leaning towards on-topic, but not constructive.
 
9:51 PM
Hmm, why not?
 
think of it from the perspective of the answers you expect:
if it's a yes, you'll get a good answer. "Yes, it has an Islamic basis, because evidence, evidence, evidence."
if it's a no, there is no good answer. "No."
 
but @goldPseudo that's fine - lack of quality answers is not a bad thing
it sends some kind of message
 
Jeff Atwood on January 17, 2011

In Good Subjective, Bad Subjective, we made a pretty solid first stab at defining a constructive subjective question, one that I’ve been happy with so far.

Constructive subjective questions:

inspire answers that explain “why” and “how”. tend to have long, not short, answers. have a constructive, fair, and impartial tone. invite sharing experiences over opinions. insist that opinion be backed up with facts and references. are more than just mindless social fun.

tend to have long, not short, answers. have a constructive, fair, and impartial tone. invite sharing experiences over opinions. insist that opinion be backed up with facts and references. are more than just mindless social fun. …

 
@Ansari what do you mean
 
hmm
never mind then
 
9:54 PM
if you could somehow rework the question so it would have a good answer, whether the practice is islamically based or not, it would be fine.
 
@AlUmmat I only meant that a lack of answers means that no one on this website has enough expertise to answer that question
 
@Ansari ok
 
it's the basic trap of proving a negative. the only real way to have enough expertise to answer "No" authoritatively is to know everything ever.
 
Possible no answer -> "That practice began some-number years after prophet's (s.a.w) death and is based upon (something) tradition. In time, people started to think it has something to do with Islam"
 
if the question was worked like "Such-and-such scholar claims that the lead-in-water thing is valid. What were the evidences used to make this ruling?", i feel it would be perfectly fine.
 
9:57 PM
yes @goldPseudo but how can you know whether there exists an answer or not
 
that's the crux of what's really rubbing me the wrong way on this question.
 
To be honest, I am 80% sure it is bidah :)
 
i mean how do you know it's necessarily a proving-a-negative question
it's only proving-a-negative if you're reasonably sure there are no "yes" answers
 
(not this question in particular, this is hardly the first i've seen on the site that's rubbing me in the same wrong way)
 
(just playing devil's advocate - i support reworking the question a little bit to be more answerable)
 
9:59 PM
devil's advocate?
 
But I don't know any scholar who supports this.
 
isn't devil shaytan?
 
@AlUmmat it's an English idiom: he's pretending to disagree with me just so we can go through both sides of the argument.
 
ok
 
the problem with the proving-a-negative model is the fact that the "no" side is decidedly uninteresting to answer.
and allowing it opens the door to literally any number of uninteresting questions.
 
10:05 PM
But you don't know if you will get a no answer, that is point of asking in the first place. Even though no answer would be uninteresting, question itself might be interesting.
 
"Does Islam forbid eating cucumber sandwiches on Sunday?" "Is there any Islamic basis for programming on a boat?" "Were any of the early Muslims diabetic?"
 
@goldPseudo All those questions elicit this response "Why would it be"
in my question, the answer is "some people doing it."
 
Skeptics.SE gets around this problem by only fielding questions where the original claim is made by a reputable source. i.e., "some people doing it" is not a valid claimant.
 
well i get that
but my contention is that if one can do enough research to get reputable sources making the claim, one may as well not ask that question
it's a judgment call
case by case
my vote is to let this one stand after a little editing
and perhaps @yasar can look into whether anyone serious makes this claim
 
i honestly don't know the answer to this problem (yet). but this is, i feel, a very real problem that needs to be addressed.
 
10:10 PM
@goldPseudo some people is crowded enough to make people believe this is a legitimate part of Islam, so I think it is valid claimant.
 
i'll try to get my thoughts straight and more coherent in an actual post after work, God willing.
 
@goldPseudo You mean the question itself or meta discussion?
 
the meta discussion.
i have zero input into the question itself; this is seriously the first time i ever heard of the practice.
 
I made a little bit of research today, a source claim that it has shamanistic roots. But I heard people recite al-falak and al-nas while doing it (along with lots of different things)
 
people do all sorts of things to justify non-islamic practices :)
where i come from, if you wear a cap and face the qiblah while doing something - it's all good
 
10:14 PM
Problem is I can't find any English resource to show you, because I don't know what to search for. It has a name in Turkish, I am not sure if it has name in English.
 
reworking it to something like "Muslims in Turkey do such-and-such, and claim it's an Islamic practice. I've read through such-and-such and have never seen any evidence of this, so I was wondering where this practice comes from?" would be answerable.
(but then it's questionably off-topic)
 
Hmm, I just found exact question on different website:
 
the "yes" answer in that case would be just as interesting as your original question "yes it's islamically based because evidence evidence evidence"
the "no" answer in that case would also be interesting, "it's originally derived from evidence evidence evidence but there's little to no evidence linking it to the practices of the prophet or the sahaba"
so its on-topicness is just a issue of if it's about "islam" or "muslims". i feel it's on the on-topic side of that line, but that's just my opinion.
 
10:59 PM
Great answer: What kind of pets can I keep in my house? http://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/610/what-kind-of-pets-can-i-keep-in-my-house/611?atw=1#611 #cleanliness
 

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