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2:02 AM
Anyone here work on Steampunk stuff? A new web magazine called Jukepop is calling for submissions for web serials. It's paying work through August. "steampunk, slipstream, fantasy, paranormal, sci-fi, dystopian, crime, mystery, thriller, and cross genre. "
@NathanCTresch - You have any recordings? Would like to hear. (I'm a guitarist, in a celtic trio right now.)
@NeilFein I havent sung in years except kareoke and rock band. I am planning on recording myself singing over some songs that I enjoy and posting it to my blog, soon, though.,
@NeilFein If I get my lovecraft story done in time, I could write something steampunk, I love the genre
@NeilFein Its the only alternate history genre that's popular among non-nerds, so, obv I'm going to like it as I love alternate history stories
1 hour later…
3:15 AM
@SomeNorCalGuy - I saw your queued edits:
Q: The advantages of using "Didn't have" vs. "Without" in a title

alexchencoI titled a short story "The Girl without a Soul". But recently I've been thinking on naming it "The Girl who didn't have a Soul." Do they mean exactly the same thing? Which is a more appropriate title for a short story? Is there an advantage to using one over the other?

This one - the edit is nice, but it's still asking for people to differentiate between two extremely similar titles. I really think this made more sense on English, and I'm puzzled why they sent it to us. (The conversation in the comments is not enlightening.)
I could give a good answer to it, because there are distinct differences in the connotations most people are going to have in their heads between the two words
Any way of making this less trivial?
I'm open to arguments here.
Didn't, since it includes a contraction, is less formal and most people are going to have a much different idea about the content and tone of the story
It's not at all trivial!
Q: What are the advantages to setting a word limit for a short story?

Craig SeftonIn the past when I've written short stories, I've found that setting a word limit tends to make my writing more focused and concise (generally, the limits have been imposed by a course I was taking). I'm wondering if there's an "optimal" word limit I could use to restrict myself when I start wri...

Nice edit! Reopened.
The two sets of words have very different connotations, even though you wouldn't think so
3:21 AM
@NathanCTresch - It just seems like the kind of hairsplitting they do over at EL&U. Not at all what we do here. But... get people to vote to reopen, or get another mod to agree with you, and I'll gladly back off.
If people want to do more stuff like this about titles, I guess that could make sense.
Oh, yeah, just added the tag.
Wait a minute, I had a thought.
Word choice is important, most especially in the title because it affects the overall reading in most readers minds subconsciously
Right, that's what I was driving at
I pulled a version of what you said above, about sticking in readers' minds. I added "As a short story title, what impressions will readers get from the different titles? " and reopened.
Your edit makes the question important
But I'd love to improbe that title.
It could be something like "variations on a title", but that could be many such questions.
Okay, this one:
Q: Please fix my resume!

KarsI need help making part of my resume more clear. Any suggestions that you have that will make the following statement more concise and readable would be appreciated. Objective: To work with a dedicated team of experts in a company where I can enhance my knowledge and skills. Also to wo...

@NeilFein Yeah. But this one really irked me. The ELU guys were REALLY dickish to him and then we weren't much nicer (me included). The whole convo looked like a pissing match between Writers & EL&U and this guy just wants to know which is the better title. Let him ask the question, darn it. /rant
3:31 AM
The edit helps, making the request for improvement more targeted. @justkt - what do you think? Is this a decent question or is it write-my-resume in nice clothing?
I agree about the argument in the comments; maybe I should clean up those comments?
@NeilFein sweet. thanks.
That question is what's prompted me to keep popping into the EL&U chatroom every so often.
Trying to keep a friendly relationship going.
Have told them to come here anytime and feel free to ask if we want a question.
@NathanCTresch for me the problem with the question wasn't "meh. they're the same" (they're not) but it's Is this a question language and grammar or is this a question of improving the quality of a written work
ie is this a Writers-SE question or an EL&U question
3:58 AM
I hate them, but I promise to be polite, @NeilFein
Of course. When are you not? ;)
When I get overly frustrated at someone else's obvious idiocy and I've engaged in a discussion with them I sometimes ditch my eloquence in an attempt to make them as frustrated as I feel, to be honest. :P
In general I try not to talk to people like that in the first place, however, and I'm getting better at detecting when someone is a well educated and well spoken retard. :P
You haven't done that here, not that I've noticed.
But there are some SE sites which I decline to name that make me feel similarly frustrated.
I'll go ahead and name one, ELU, and another, skeptics. :P
No, I've never done that here, nor in scifi, and I actually never did it in either of those places.
I was just feeling like it, so much that I left both sites
I'd prefer just not to deal with it than stick around where I might end up that upset
Not every site is for everybody. This is true.
4:08 AM
I'm a very passionate person.
I have the advantage of knowing quite well that I'm incredibly tolerant and polite, so that when these situations come up I can be sure that I probably didn't do anything to deserve it. :)
4:54 AM
A: The advantages of using "Didn't have" vs. "Without" in a title

Nathan C. TreschThis may seem like a trivial distinction, but as a title choice it's important as the title conveys an overall sense of the tone of the story. First of all, the use of the contraction don't is less formal than without so it might be best to consider the verbiage you've used throughout the stor...

All done.
2 hours later…
6:35 AM
@NeilFein thoughts about my answer? Too long?
7:10 AM
Kudos on all the cleanup work, guys... way to go :D
@NeilFein @NathanCTresch @SomeNorCalGuy
@Standback I just answer questions man. :)
@Standback I wish there was more traffic, my answer was awesome but it's not gonna get a lot of votes :(
4 hours later…
10:57 AM
@NeilFein: This is partially a reminder to myself, but we've got some near-dupes on a very common question - where to find readers/reviewers for my work?
Here are three that are linked to each other:
Q: What's a good resource to find Beta Readers for short stories?

user2325I'm currently in the market for beta readers, particularly for short stories. I've finished an early draft for a contest, and I'm hoping to hear some feedback. I'm open to reading the work of others as well. Thank you.

Q: Internet communities where I can read/rate/review short fiction, and post my own?

BradCSo what active internet communities are out there where I can post my own short fiction, for others to read, rate, review and discuss? (Note that I'm not asking about local writer's groups, or collaborative story sites, or writing contests, or forums about writing, all of which have been asked h...

Q: What are good places to post your work where it will be read by others?

ClaudiuSeeing this site and reading some of my ridiculous stories that I wrote a while ago makes me want to start writing again. I know I'll be more enthusiastic if I have people reading my work and commenting on it, and that will also be great feedback to improve my writing. I also don't want to pester...

Not only are the questions quite (but not entirely) similar,
the answers hardly address the differences... so an answer to one may actually be more appropriate to another.
We might also have some other dupes of these; I'll look at this later.
3 hours later…
1:39 PM
uNF, another answer in the can!
1 hour later…
3:01 PM
@Standback: hi there, it's lit.se again with a last minute migration possibility. Sci-fi seems unsure about this one, and it occurred to me that it might be pretty applicable to writing:
Q: Why was the Harry Potter series so popular?

Ben WilliamsThere are a number of universities that offer courses on Harry Potter and many academic works on the same. Given such scholarly interest, has there been any sort of consensus on what made the series so popular? What are the major theories, who proposed them, and how are they supported?

3:15 PM
@ladenedge - The answers are all people speculating and theorizing,not answering a question. The truth is that nobody knows the answer. Unless someone else here wants it, I'd say no thank you.
It should go to scifi/fantasy, @ladenedge and @NeilFein
Unless they don't want it. May I ask?
If I were sff, I wouldn't want it there either. Let it enrich the Literature archives, I say.
Fair enough, thank you!
@standback - All three are list questions. Either close 'em all, or merge them into one big reference question and CW it. What's current policy on CW reference questions?
Thanks for asking!
(If the upcoming library science site opens, though, it might be appropriate there. Once the site is archive-ized, can questions still be moved out?)
3:43 PM
So, I'm interested in devoting some of my time as a mod here, and I understand that it's put to some kind of a vote? What is the process for that like, I have no idea?
@NathanCTresch - When a beta site is launched, mod elections will be held.
You can nominate yourself then, and that'd be great!
I don't know what that means, "when a beta site is launched"?
Also, thanks very much for the assertion that it would be great, I appreciate the vote of confidence. :)
Okay, here's the general way these sites are created:
Being here helping with this site helps me keep my mind focused on my goal of writing, and obviously it helps with my writing as I write all the time.
There's a site called Area 51, where people propose sites like cooking, library whatever.
People commit to proposals, and if enough people commit and ask example questions, then a site is launched into probate beta, then into regular beta.
That's where this site is now.
3:46 PM
Aye, I've seen that and marked some interest in some things
If gods of Stack Exchange think the site is doing well, it's launched as a full site, with a design of its own.
If not, the site is canned. Like what's happening to Literature now.
Does that make it clear?
But, what I'm saying is that we're already in beta, so, are you saying that when some other site goes into beta there will be elections here?
No, it's independent of other sites. When the SE people decide to take this out of beta, then we'll have elections.
I see.
And how long might that take?
I have no idea.
I wish I did!
At this point, I think it's basically a matter of getting more people here,posting and answering questions and - importantly - voting on questions.
We need more high-rep users here, with close-voting privileges, and editing privileges, and so on. So the community can properly run the site without so much in the way of moderator intervention.
Hence all the concerns with publicity.
3:53 PM
I could pay money to advertise for us. :P
Actually, there's a thread on Meta asking for ideas about publicity. We've made inquiries to the SE people to see if there's money for advertising. This is not a joke at all. We'd love more ideas there.
@NathanCTresch If the Area 51 stats are to be believed the biggest problem, it appears to me (as a layman) that the BIGGEST problem is the amount of questions per day. A healthy beta is 15. less than 5, you have a problem. Writers is: 1.6 questions per day
Or am I wrong on that?
No, it is a problem. But the questions we do get are being answered, and we're doing okay encouraging good answers.
The theory (as I understand it) is that
more people here will solve the problem of questions per day.
As long as it's more people doing a good job like people are now, and not just moar users to bulk up the numbers.
Maybe Monday's chat should be about publicity.
The problem, as I see it is that we get 1.6 questions for every 1,000 daily visits. At that rate we will need (a little rough math) about 10,000 visits/day. I don't think publicity will solve that quickly.
What the problem seems to me is an inability to convert page views to question asking (or are the Writers ratios in line with other fully fledged sites?).
@SomeNorCalGuy - That could be. How do we do that?
4:03 PM
I made my opinion known yesterday. It got shot down in flames, but I made it known
@SomeNorCalGuy: Which was that? Was this the "OK more questions from EL&U"?
For to remind: Be a little loose with the rules as to what is an acceptable question on writers and then tighten up when we graduate
Okay, someone from the Stack Exchange team will be attending our chat on Monday.
Just heard.
the elu xfers are like 1 question a week. not enough to matter, really
@NeilFein is that a good thing, a bad thing or a neutral everybody act natural thing?
@SomeNorCalGuy - I asked them if they would, so it's a good thing.
I figure to answer some of these questions about site growth.
4:06 PM
My own feeling is (and always has been) that we need more active users. Which is very different from pageviews.
Means we don't need just any pageviews,
we need the particular users who actually have questions to ask.
Well, I can ask more questions. :)
But I'd have to think about them
@NathanCTresch: By all means :D
Is poetry on topic here?
4:08 PM
so, the bulk of the regulars are answerers not askers?
Very true.
@NathanCTresch - Please ask more questions. So we can close them mercilessly. Because the mods are evil here. <cracks knuckles>
maybe meta Q: How to encourage more questions of quality from the existing community
J/K, I promise to be nice.
4:10 PM
We've had variations on that too :)
what were the answers?
I'm most interested in the people who do pro work. Neil edits; Kate writes; Monica's a tech writer; Smithers has... something I honestly don't recall.
I'd imagine these are the people in best position to come up with questions that deal with the pro (or at least, semipro) side of field.
I posted a pro question, haven't gotten any answers.
But we don't seem to see that too much, I'm afraid :-/
I'll keep doing that, but it doesn't work if these questions aren't answered.
4:13 PM
Unanswered pro questions are way better than not asking them to begin with.
Q: How can a practical learner get up to speed on APA quickly?

Neil FeinI'd like to learn the APA style guide, so that, in addition to the fiction and general non-fiction I work on currently, I can start accepting academic editing jobs. However, I know very little about the details of APA and I don't know what the best strategy is for learning it. I also understand i...

Q: Is Scrivener involved in the editorial process, or is it strictly a writer's development tool?

Neil FeinIs there any reason that an editor should know how to use Scrivener? I generally see manuscripts after they're out of draft but before proofreading. (I'm an editor.) However, I see a lot of talk about Scrivener on this site, and I'd like to know more about what it can do. I've read the develo...

Because it gives us content - even the stubs of content - that nobody else has.
Oh, wow, this one is old:
Q: What are widely-used UK-English style guides?

Neil FeinIn the UK, what are the equivalents to Chicago Manual of Style, the Associated Press style guide, Yahoo, APA, MLA, etc? Most importantly, what are their intended audiences? (AP is used for journalists, Yahoo for the web, APA for academia, et cetera.) I'm specifically asking about style guides t...

pros/semi pros will ask amazing important questions that should be the seasoning and not the meat
@Standback I'm going to transition to being a pro writer, for certain.
4:15 PM
Every question that's too tough for us... is an invitation for new members of that level.
@SomeNorCalGuy: Not amazing. Not important.
Just... hard to find.
Okay, that's a good point. How do we leverage these questions that pros would be interested in answering?
Meta tags!
That's what SE's good at.
Seriously, I'd like to ask another question about Scrivener.
How do I ask: Do professionals use Scrivener, or is it strictly an amateur's tool? without it being a list question. "So and so uses scrivener", etc.
4:17 PM
Are the bulk of potential Writers SE regulars professional writers, semi pro, amateur or budding, do you think?
I just don't know. My guess is the latter, based on the questions, but that's just a guess.
Q: Revision tools in Final Draft

neilfeinAre there revision features in Final Draft, similar to Track Changes in Microsoft Word? While I can get the program to show added text in a different color, deleted text is not tracked as far as I can tell. As you can see, Word shows text that's been crossed out, an advantage to editing someo...

This question of mine over on Super User isn't getting any answers.
Should I ask for it to be migrated here?
I think it'd be on-topic.
@NeilFein I think that it would be good to ask "Is Scrivener generally considered a tool that a professional would use, and why?"
And point out that appeal to anonymous authority, making a list of who uses it
Doesn't actually answer the question
Seems like it's pretty open to people speculating, though.
And to people adding answers with "just saw that this author also uses it".
Well, all questions are to a certain extent
4:21 PM
Yeah, tahts why I said to say in the question that appeal to anon authority doesnt answer the question at all
Because it's a fallacy
@NathanCTresch whoa, whoa, baby slow down. spread those questions out.
Is there any way to save questions as drafts? There isn't, is there?
nope. there isn't
Er, no reason to spread them out?
I had the ideas both at the same time
fair enough
@NathanCTresch - Both of those questions are kind of vague.
And the question about metaphor quality - you're asking what makes a metaphor "good". Define good?
Not to be ungrateful, of course. Thanks for asking!
BTW, just upvoted your answer on the scientific papers question.
In response to my own question about stats I looked at the stats of other graduated sites when they graduated from beta to see how Writers SE compares
4:32 PM
What did you find?
To see where we need to be to please the SE Gods
we're close. ish.
Writers: We have a very healthy opportunity to grow our number of questions a day.
Our daily visits is good, could be better
We have 1.6 Q a day. EL&U had 12.6, SF&F had 8.2, Skeptics had 5.7
I'd just add to that: Please make questions good, that can be answered without too much speculation.
Better fewer good questions than lots of vague ones.
But this is why I think we need a larger community. Because a push to ask more questions will only result in a temporary increase.
BUT EL&U was getting 12.6 Q off of 830 visits. We get 1.6 off of 1031
Really? That's interesting. I'd like to know why.
@NathanCTresch - I think those two questions about metaphors might do better as one question. What does everyone else think?
Whats the difference between "dreamed" and "dreamt"? -- that's why
Writers won't/can't have those kind of questions
4:37 PM
Okay, I'll edit my questions
@NeilFein Yeah, I split them to artifcially add more questions, thinking that they were different enough to justify it
If that was wishful thinking on my part I'll change it
If the one about metaphor quality were expanded to be more specific, it would make a great question on its own.
Not saying they have to be one question, just throwing that out there.
SF&F might be a better yardstick. They graduated with 8.2Q from 1632 Daily visits.
When you dig a little deeper the "problem" is that Writers baseline community is one of answerers not askers. our answer ratio (which is great) is 150-200% of other sites who graduated from beta.
@NeilFein: Because questions like "what is the origin of word X?" and "what is the difference in connotation between X and Y?" are much easier to phrase, polish, and ask than our usual subjective crafty fare.
"Should I write in Starbucks or in Dunkin Donuts?"
"Hey, writers: Mac or PC?"
Here's an idea for an initiative:
Let's declare expertisii.
Regulars can choose a subject to be "in charge of."
And ask, say, one question in that subject every week.
4:46 PM
That is the problem. A significant number of good, important writer-ly questions have subjective argumentable qualities to them, which is antithetical to the typical stack exchange site
i dunno - what's the plural of "expertise"?
Better go ask on EL&U! :P
Point is - It's not a one-time rush; it's a steady flow.
And it's one which lets members go deep, rather than wide.
What's the incentive for people to do this?
They want the site to not be closed down . }:-)
thats a good reason
Isn't it, though?
4:50 PM
@Standback expertises
@NathanCTresch I like mine better.
@NeilFein does my edit make the question meaningful, or should I jsut stick it in with the other?
I may seriously go ask that at EL&U
Let's see what kind of answers it gets.
@Standback I might too if I wasnt a latin nerd
Er, it's canonical in OED
4:51 PM
It's a decent question, a little vague, but the people here are good about giving good answers.
It will be closed as general reference, maybe, because there's no debate
(Although the answer may well be "throw metaphors at the wall and see what sticks".)
It can't be what you said as it doesnt have a latin root, and it also doesn;t end with -us
Cactus, Phallus, are pluralized -ii beacuse they are descended directly from latin
And they end with -us
Yeah, but this is English and not Latin. We play a little hard and fast with the rules. Especially in the age of crowdsourced facts
4:54 PM
(apologies for my extremely spotty activity right this moment - watching my daughter before rushing out to rehearsal. Probably will be able to talk about all this more at length at some later date.)
There's no references anywhere to it being anything else in literature, if there were you ccould make a descriptivist argument that it's acceptable
But there isn't so prescriptivism wins the day and it's prescribed in OED, which is considered the most official source for word definitions and forms
additionally, in english one of the things we don't do is play hard and fast with words that we inherited from Latin, as the reason we inherited them is because they were proscribed in some form.
You can ask in ELU, and they might even give you a different answer because they are douchey like that, but it would be wrong
(I've studied linguistics a great deal)
Again, crowdsourced facts. Gotta love it.
Ask what in EL&U now?
The plural of expertise.
4:58 PM
Isn't expertise the plural of expertise?
expertises vs expertesii, or something I think
But anyway, not douchiness, but there is a question about latinate plurals, so it would probably be closed as a dupe.
IT's expertises
Well, at least they would give the right anwswer in that case
I was saying they are douchey at ELU becuse they accept wrong answers
shrugs We're not the ones who accept wrong answers.
The askers are the ones who do the accepting.
Hey, askers are always allowed to make a bad decision. They're like customers in that respect.
5:01 PM
I don't know why you would think it was expertesii, though.
It came to English via French.
That;s what I said in the backscroll
Well, I didnt say the french, but I said it didnt have a latin root
Well. Expert is from Latin, innit?
@KitFox I got so frustrated with helping people at ELU because of the constant douchey passive aggresive downvotes with no explanation of correct answers
5:04 PM
I can understand that.
The latin word for Expert is "artis".
I got my 10K and spend my time cleaning.
Not that I spend a lot of time at that.
But expert comes from experīrī, neh?
@KitFox Most especially frustrating was the downvotes and rude comments from people who are ESL, clearly didn't have a great command of the language who were being snarky about idiomatic meanings
Yes. That really makes me angry.
But I am well over 10K, so downvotes don't bother me so much.
5:22 PM
So, I was mistaken
Obv I should have known, @KitFox, DERRRRRR its french obv it came from latin
5:58 PM
Can I get some feedback on this potential migration? Would this question about revision tools in Final Draft be on-topic here? Because this would open the doors to questions about using Word, Scrivener, and so on here.
Q: Why is there religion in the HP wizarding world?

TesserexPlease forgive any blasphemy in this question. Every winter, Hogwarts students return home and celebrate Christmas with their families. But when you think about it, why would wizards be Christian? I have to imagine how Jesus would appear from a wizard's point of view. Why would people from a ma...

Some days people irritate me more than others.
@NeilFein If the question is: Should questions on writer-specific software like Scrivener (that I am trying but not loving) be allowed in Writers, then I say yes. BUT...
I'm listening!
THAT specific question I do not think would work well in Writers because it appears to be asking a question of a technical nature regarding a feature of a word processing program
Okay. Will ask for the migration.
6:09 PM
Well, hold on
Asking for help with a tool that writers use seems like it's on topic for here
To me
Then again, where else would you ask it? It doesn't seem to be getting much traction at superu
Perhaps the dividing line is if the question concerns writing or editing, it belongs here. IF it's about the tech specifically, we send it to Super User.
@NathanCTresch I agree. But the way the particular question is worded (perhaps because of the forum) makes it of a technical feature-y nature
I'm thinking the same thing.
Questions on the tools Writers use should always be on topic.
6:12 PM
So "how do I handle revisions in Final Draft, which has no robust revision tools?"
I dont see the question
Oh I see
Q: Revision tools in Final Draft

neilfeinAre there revision features in Final Draft, similar to Track Changes in Microsoft Word? While I can get the program to show added text in a different color, deleted text is not tracked as far as I can tell. As you can see, Word shows text that's been crossed out, an advantage to editing som...

Erm, well, he's obviously asking about writing
Sure, he's asking a very specific question
@NeilFein Or some variation thereof
But, I might ask that also
6:13 PM
Just wondering if moving this here would invite a lot of "How do I print in Microsoft Word" questions.
@NeilFein Close as off topic or migrate as you would anything else
I'm gonna write a variation on that question and put it here.
Okay, how about a "how do I create a manuscript template in MS Word" question ... would that be on topic here or in another forum?
Not that -I- have that question. But someone could.
Good question. I think it's better off on Super User.
I hate a play it by ear rule. But we'll just have to run it up the flagpole and see who salutes.
6:25 PM
I'd prefer to see it here, TBH
I think it's on topic, writers need help with their tools as much as anyone
And who better to ask than a fellow writer
OK, Im gonna go for now. I got younguns that need some outside time
Awesome, ttyl brother
6:40 PM
Q: How to handle screenplay revisions in Final Draft?

Neil FeinI need to revise a screenplay in Final Draft, and I'm finding that the revision features in the program are poor. Are there any ways to introduce revision features in to Final Draft, similar to Track Changes in Microsoft Word? If not, what kind of workflow could give me the same benefits of keepi...

Any suggestions about making this more specific to the process of writing and revising would be welcome!
Thanks for all your help so far.
7:17 PM
@nathanCTresch - Your question about metaphor quality has gotten two very good, targeted answers.
BTW, I changed my screen name, if anyone cares, that is
I wonder how long that takes to go in effect
@NeilFein I upvoted them but people are less likely to provide good answers to accepted answer'd questions
Weird. Screen name changed in all of my SE's but not in Chat. Weird
So ... what was the cliff notes version on how to handle critique requests? Did we come to an agreement? I'm finding the Meta posts on critique to be less than clear on the matter.
1 hour later…
8:47 PM
@JedOliver - The closest we have to a quick version:
In general: Post a bit of writing, have specific questions about it. "Make this better" or "what's wrong with this" or "proofread this" will be closed.
Oooh ... a concise response and a flow chart
I notice there isn't an upper threshold on length. Is that wise?
We discussed that. We decided to avoid specifying length, for now.
Yeah, I remember. Post 25 pages? Sure, but noone will read it.
I was thinking maybe we should have a suggested limit ... 500 words? maybe?
But there's a limit on post length, looks like it was 30,000 characters in 2009.
What purpose would that serve? Are people posting too-long critiques? Let's not solve problems we don't have.
True enough
8:56 PM
When @NathanCTresch tries to post a 100,000 word novel here, we can worry about it then. :)
I had a thought on the whole critique thing. Then I realized that we would have to be the only site that does something different.
My idea was an open-ish forum. critique.writers.se.com. But that won't work. We'd be the only forum with something like that
@NeilFein Yeah. good luck with that.
Yeah, stuff like that's better on dedicated free-for-all forums.
And if anyone seriously posted the text of a long work here, it becomes creative commons.
@NeilFein I thought there was a recentish discussion that said essentially that you retain copyright on posted excerpts...
Did I misread that part. I remember seeing a badly drawn illustration...
The Meta SO thread? Yeah, but if you read the comments, it's actually not all that clear. SE legal has yet to make a ruling on this.
I understand there's never been a test case of anything like this.
Personally, I can't imagine an excerpt, posted for the express purpose of improvement, would be an issue. But someone could in theory argue that the excerpt is the core of a derivative work.
I have no idea if this would survive a court challenge.
How does photo handle it? They get subs all the time.
9:04 PM
Good question.
Looking now.
In terms of critique, etc. the closest sister site I can find is Photo, and I'm looking at how they handle a lot of the stuff we have questions on
These are the only two questions tagged CC there, and neither addresses this.
BTW, Audio/Visual has audio samples, Stack Overflow has code examples. So same problem there.
OK, so, without rehashing, let's see if I understand the situation as it stands...re: critique & SE's CC nature
An illustration: I write a short story, post an excerpt here and that story later gets published as a collection...
9:20 PM
@Jed - The problem is that we haven't been given any clear answers.
Stack Exchange needs to have a policy on this, and they don't. We have asked for clarification, and will share that when have it.
I would have to have a blurb that said "...and portions of Keeping Your Ford Tempo Alive appeared under a Creative Commons license at writers.se.com..."
Yeah, that makes no sense.
So that's SE's legal dept
It would have to be. I assume they have one.
This is a problem...
9:24 PM
They could fix this with a fairly straightforward statement, I think.
Because I think one way Writers could continue to establish itself in the writing community is to provide a crowdsourced discussion of brief excerpts of written work ... but that dog won't hunt if writers have to be concerned about losing control of their intellectual property
Perhaps you could bring this up on Monday's chat? I'd love to hear how this could be melded with the existing SE Q&A engine.
For my part, I'm assuming that these legal concerns will be addressed at some point. There are too many ways this could be a problem with too many sites for them to ignore the problem.
What if the content wasn't hosted by SE and a link was provided to a blog or other off-site file
That would circumvent the question entirely
I assume that's a different case. Depends on what's in the SE terms of use.
If meta.photo is correct then providing a hyperlink to your intellectual property will not subject it to the possibility of falling under SE's Creative Commons policy
Which makes sense, actually
9:50 PM
It sounds like it.
It's funny. I thought photo would have a lot of "critique my work" requests. They don't. The only discussion they have on it instructs people to go elsewhere for critiques.
The closest they have is their pic-of-the-week discussion, which takes place in meta and explicitly states that critiques are not needed nor are they wanted
10:17 PM
Audio allows something similar to our critiques. Post a mix of a song, ask a specific question. I did one for this question about recording a djembe.
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11:19 PM
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