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1:50 PM
SO have some mod flags suggestion prog might want:
16
Q: Should you start coding whilst young?

Les BriggsI was talking to a younger cousin and he expressed a desire to start programming. I was unsure what to tell him, as I started when I was very young on a BASIC computer. He's over 18, and I always feel that people who are meant to program start young or have an interest from a very early age. I t...

I'd welcome opinions before I force it upon y'all
 
sigh
 
@MarcGravell That would probably stay closed on PSE as well
 
fine - I'll leave it
 
I don't understand why that alone is criteria not to move it, but again, categorization mania
 
wait... so do you want me to move it and close it? that can be done...
 
1:56 PM
That question fails most of the guidelines for the site. why migrate a question to another site if it doesn't add value?
 
that is kinda why I was asking - you are more familiar with the specifics of PSE
 
i would close it on SO (which it is) and a lot of Jeff's advice for situations like this is to delete it
 
indeed; I was very tempted to delete it. SO isn't going to miss it
 
can't say that's what he would say for this particular quesiton. but that's been the answer a lot for questions that don't belong on either site
 
I do like this though ;p
34
Q: Please stop using Programmers.SE as your toilet bowl

Mark TrappStack Overflow users have been using the "off topic - belongs on Programmers.SE" close reason as an alternative to all the other close reasons. It'd be helpful if people actually read the FAQ and the guidelines for six subjective questions before voting to migrate questions like: What's your fa...

well put
 
2:01 PM
That pretty much sums it up
I do appreciate you asking about migrating questions. We've gone through a ton of migrated questions on our side that had to be closed
 
if it's going to be deleted I agree, but if it's going to sit somewhere closed and locked, I'd rather it be on the more appropriate site
 
Didn't we already have a few "am I too old to start coding" type questions? This seems similar.
 
Good point. that sounds very familiar
 
2:48 PM
@Walter: why no running for moderator elections?
 
Life is too busy. I only agreed to be a temp mod because... 1. they asked nicely :) and 2. it was only until elections could be held
 
@Walter: too few candidates. It's depressing.
 
user2334
It'd be helpful if people used their powers to vote to close instead of/in addition to flagging a bad question. Tell your 3,000+ rep friends!
 
@Pierre303 I expected to see more candidates, too. You should throw your name in, too. :)
 
@Pierre303 You could always rethink your decision not to run yourself...
@AnnaLear I asked where his nomination was too but sadly it's an active decision not to stand rather than having just not got round to it...
 
user2334
2:54 PM
@Pierre303 It's easy to sit on the sidelines and let others make the tough choices, but we need our active members taking a more active role in how the site is run. You should reconsider and nominate yourself.
 
@MarkTrapp At the same time, it's better to have someone not run than end up with a reluctant mod.
 
@Mark: I act as a moderator already thanks to my 10k. The way that I see this community is at odds with the role of moderator as proposed. And the rules in place which do not completely agree with.
ouch, when I reread my sentence, it hurts.
 
@Pierre - Are you disagreements that great? You already manage to play a fantastic role on the site with those rules in place, would they really prevent you being an equally good moderator?
 
user2334
@Pierre303 That's one way to see it. But it's an odd thing to complain about a lack of nominations when you yourself haven't stepped up.
 
user2334
If you want to take an active interest in how the site is run, get involved!
 
2:59 PM
Mark: let's face it, I don't like the way some questions are closed. When someone comes here to ask for help, closing his questions is very hard
 
@Pierre303 A site without boundaries is ... well, 4chan
 
@Jon: Yes I accept the rules. I try to discuss them often. For exemple in my questions that are often bordeline. How to be a good moderator with that history ?
 
@Pierre - Surely better to have moderators who understand the issues and struggle with them first hand rather than someone who looks at the rules unquestioningly?
 
@C. Ross: I agree, I don't want to remove boundaries. I would like to push them a little bit more that's it. I think that we should try to help any programmer that needs for help. I'm very sensible to that distress, so when I see someone literally kicked out, it hurts me.
 
Surely the point of this site is that we're all learning, the moderators included. The day we get mods who think they have all the answers we're in trouble. I'd rather have smart committed mods who are aware they're fallible and are open to things changing and can make intelligent decisions when called upon.
As a moderator you could give people the leeway to see if things do work out. I'm not saying ignore the FAQ but there is plenty of scope for interpretation, taking an edit before close approach and so on,.
 
3:06 PM
I can do that without being a moderator. I think most of the question I posed on META were very unpopular because they questionned the system in place. That single fact prove I should not represent the authority in place. It would be hypocric don't you think?
 
user2334
@Pierre303 They added metrics to each nomination on people's participation on meta: I'm almost certain the reason why only 4 people responded to your question is because most of the nominees don't ever visit the meta to begin with.
 
@Pierre303 - I don't think there's anything wrong with questioning things, so long as you're not unilaterally changing rules yourself. I think a lot of people will respect the mods more if they don't think they're blindly obeying the rules.
At least one candidate is running on a platform of anything goes within reason, I don't see you being any more extreme than that.
 
@Mark: yes very true... @Jon: good point
Dan McGrath: why did you remove yourself ?
 
You do make a good point about the difference between being 10k+ and being a moderator. There is a case that it's just more grief for little more real influence.
 
3:22 PM
What are the differences Mark? What extra tools you have?
 
For one we see all the questions that are flagged for moderator attention
there's usually a bunch to address each day
 
user2334
@JonHopkins I think that's a common misconception about being a high rep user/moderator. It's really not about influence, but about paying it forward and pitching in to keep the site on track. Moderators and high rep users have no more influence about what's allowed on the site and what isn't than a user who registered today
 
@MarkTrapp That's a good point. We all play by the overall SE rules at the end of the day.
 
@MarkTrapp - But isn't that what the 10k users are / should be doing?
 
user2334
@Pierre303 Perhaps the most important feature I've found so far is that you're no longer acting in a bubble. You have direct access to others in the same position with the same goals in trying to maintain the site. I can understand how the problems Gaming.SE faces relate to the problems Programmers.SE faces, for example
 
3:27 PM
@MarkTrapp Excellent point. That's what I found to be the most useful
 
user2334
@JonHopkins Yes. You brought up "real influence", which isn't a big part of moderating/10king
 
Don't you think 3 moderators is not enough ? Today Chris, Walter and you are very active. Is it enough?
 
@peirre along those lines, what happens if a mod becomes in active? Can the be replaced easily?
 
user2334
@Pierre303 three domain-specific moderators seems to work just fine: at any time I'm active, either Walter or ChrisF is active. And a lot of issues that require a second look aren't Programmers.SE specific, so I can run it by other moderators
 
user2334
@Pemdas Yes. Super User has run through about a half dozen IIRC
 
3:30 PM
do you go through elections again, or someone just get appointed?
or does
 
user2334
next one in line
 
so we keep back ups?
 
user2334
Yeah: there's going to be a 4th place, 5th place, etc. finisher in the election. They'd likely be the first alternates
 
That's part of why Mark and I were asked to be temp mods, some of the existing mods were running into time issues and couldn't be as active as was needed
 
@MarkTrapp - That's slightly terrifying given the number of candidates at the moment. Someone could end up moderator by default.
 
user2334
3:36 PM
@JonHopkins well, to put it into perspective, we have more nominees than Super User or Server Fault. Stack Overflow is the only site that gets a plethora of nominees.
 
user2334
Actually, we tie Super User
 
And we've got 10 which is more than I'd thought.
 
user2334
CSTheory.SE only has 3 (for 3 slots), GameDev.SE has 5 for 3 slots
 
user2334
We have 11
 
OK, so people are unlikely to get anything by default.
 
user2334
3:40 PM
No. Well, someone will be the unlucky person who winds up being the only person not to make it past the primaries.
 
Jon: yes that's worrying.
 
why?
never mind...I thought the fact that 1 person would not make it past the primaries was worrying...now i see that is not what you meant.
 
what is worrying is the number of candidates.
I mean, good candidates. There is already great ones, more than the 3 available seats
 
maybe that it why there are not more candidates. All of you in chat right now have a pretty well known presence on the site. I don't see much of chance for anyone else. That might discourage people a little.
 
@Pemdas - I'm not sure that many of the people in here are running. Walter isn't, Pierre isn't, I'm not.
 
3:52 PM
@Pemdas I think there's a correlation between not being well-known (for lack of a better term) and low levels of contributing in a moderator-like capacity.
 
ok..., but you Anna, Mark, Pierre, ChrisF, Josh K, Ryan Hayes...6 "great" candidates for 3 positions
@anna, some of it is just how long you have been around though. The site is only 4 months old...that not a lot of time for "newer" people to make a name for themselves>
 
It's not too hard to get noticed on SE sites, especially smaller-than-SO ones. Answer stuff (preferably well), comment, come back often. I don't think having more "famous" users would increase the number of candidates.
 
if we were old then I would probably agree with you.
older
 
@Pemdas That's fair. My impression of my own involvement is that it is relatively recent (beyond just idly checking in and answering a question now and then), but I don't recall the last 4 months that well, so it's probably wrong. :)
 
Anna you are too humble
 
4:03 PM
You don't get to #4 on the user list just by idly checking in and answering a question now and then. :)
 
@Brant I'm honestly still not sure how that happened exactly. :) I've definitely been more active in the last couple months than at the beginning, though.
 
Anna: I've been watching you for a while, and you are one of the most consistant user. This is a great quality.
 
@Pierre303 Thanks. :)
 
Consistency is the most desirable trait for a moderator.
I'm surprised at the angst over the number of candidates for moderator. If there were many more than there are, I'd be concerned that some of the candidates were taking the commitment and responsibility too lightly.
I'm quite pleased with the slate.
 
@AnnaLear I can tell you how it happened... we all upvoted your answers. no magic there. :)
 
4:19 PM
@Walter Mystery solved. =)
 
The real magic was in the number of really good answers :)
 
so...pierre...you have been stalking anna? ;)
 
Room got busy, should Have checked in earlier.
 
this is first time that I have ever see it active at all
 
Josh: pretty rare isn't ?
@Pemdas: I'm a gentlemen
 
4:27 PM
lol
 
@Pierre303: I think any major chat room activity is rare.
At least they are never active when I check in
Though I am spending less time refreshing pages now that I added all my tuned RSS feeds
 
nice...i need to that
to do
 
I think all that'll do for me is make me refresh Google Reader instead. :)
 
@AnnaLear I have NewsFire sitting on my desktop so it's a bit more out of the way
And targeting tags is much better then the general feed.
 
How often do we reelect mods?
 
4:33 PM
@Pemdas Every year?
I'm not quite sure
 
pretty sure its once a year on the trilogy sites. obviously the SE sites aren't that old yet
but i'm sure they'll follow the same schedule
 
Ok...so what privileges does a moderator have that a 10k user does not?
 
@Pemdas Edit everything, and all your actions are binding
 
@Pemdas: Higher voting on closes, access to flags, and "moderator tools" which I'm not sure what else.
 
plus you can view more personal information
 
4:39 PM
You have access to the moderators chat room for all SE mods.
There are a lot of tools that most users don't know exist. I didn't anyway...
 
tools that not accessible once you reach 10k?
 
yes
 
Yes
10k is really about the "tools" section where you can view questions that have pending close votes / delete votes
 
10k tools are okay, but nothing really mindblowing. Mostly just statistics for highest/lowest voted questions and answers and such.
 
As well as some nice extra information like recent edits and voting frequency
Agreed with @AnnaLear, they aren't amazing.
Even viewing flags is very watered down unfortunately
For example, if you flag something as spam or offensive I see it, but anything else (mod. atten) I can't.
 
4:43 PM
Can current mods vote? It seems like that have an unfair advantage in the information department.
vote in the elections I mean
 
Yes, we vote
 
@JoshK Can't dismiss flags either. Can only see that they're there.
 
@Pemdas why would it be unfair?
 
@AnnaLear: Can mods dismiss flags?
 
@JoshK I think so? Walter can say for sure.
 
4:45 PM
@JoshK yes
 
I thought they just "fell off" if they didn't get 6
 
they age off as well, but you can dismiss them
 
maybe not unfair, but you can definitely get a better idea of candidates activities and perhaps promote people based on information other users don't have
 
user2334
@Pemdas it's no different than incumbency in other elections. The incumbent always has an advantage due to inertia
 
@Pemdas I'll tell you how I'm evaluating the candidates. I go into their profile (same as what you have access to) and I go through all of their activity to see answers but mostly comments
 
user2334
4:47 PM
But it's not like moderator votes count more or anything
 
fair enough
 
@CRoss Interesting, I didn't know that.
@Walter: Can just mods go through that?
Have access to the activity tab I mean
 
nope, everyone should have access to that
 
That's what I thought.
 
someone can correct me if i'm wrong
 
4:50 PM
Well I can view it, could be a 10k thing but I doubt it
 
has anyone else looked at Yi Jiang's election research tool?
 
I have
Very interesting
And well done too I might add
I especially like the filtering and ordering ability
The only thing I would like to see added would be a table like comparison of the candidates
 
37
A: Moderator nomination possibly useful statistics

Yi JiangAh right, the page Benjol was talking about in the comments is about finished. It pulls in a pretty impressive amount of information by using an obscene amount of API calls to the Stack Overflow API. It's all client-side, so please do not set it to auto-refresh every minute, or else it will eat t...

 
Yi Jiang work is amazing. It changed how I viewed a couple of candidates.
 
it's even more important on SO b/c of the TON of nominees
 
5:16 PM
anyone else notice a surge of questions about SMS lately?
 
on SO or PES
?
i notice a constant surge of "what programing language should I learn"
 
A constant surge?
 
lol...yeah I suppose that language doesn't make sense.
I just feel like it is ever 5th question asked
every
 
That topic does seem to arise quite often, and why shouldn't it? Perhaps it is simply my subjective perception, but it seems to me that new language are popping up all of the time.
How many languages are now running on the JVM? It seems to be the toy/personal language platform of choice these days.
And there's never a reasonable answer to that question.
 
That's why it was recently added to the FAQ as a type of question that's off topic
 
5:30 PM
I wish there was a better way to encourage checking the FAQ before posting questions.
 
I'm sure that someone around here can code up a few quick RegEx's to identify questions that might be FAQ-worthy.
ooops..forgot the <sarcasm> tags.
 
5:43 PM
Arg. I ran out of votes yesterday at some point and it told me to come back in 23 hours.
Six to go.
 
Josh...close votes?
 
@Adam No, up / down votes
I run out of close votes less often
Flags are more common
 
I didn't even realize that there was a limit on up/down votes. Feeling sheepish now.
 
Lol. I think it's 35 a day
But it could be lower.
Unfortunately those don't scale with rep like other votes.
 
35 seems like a reasonable amount, especially given that it is probably there largely to limit irresponsible, careless or cheating behavior. Is that number shared across all of the SE sites?
 
5:56 PM
No, it's per-site.
I run out pretty often. A lot of question turn up many answers worthy of an upvote.
 
@AdamCrossland It's per-site, so I can vote on SO / SU / etc, even M.P.SE but not the main site.
 
6:42 PM
Good morning all. First time I've ever woke up and I couldn't scroll back to the last messages I saw before bed. :)
 
Morning Dan. :)
 
@Pierre303m I withdraw because I felt there was more than 3 other nominees who I would vote above myself.
s/303m/303/
 
lol...i just made a comment about the phenomena earlier today
that
 
Am I the only one who isn't thinks of a rifle every time I see @Pierre303's name (even though I know that's not why he put 303)
 
possibly
 
6:46 PM
wow, I'm tired... s/who isn't/who
 
i am not particularly tired
lol
could be the energy drink (read: caffeine)
 
mmm, caffeine.
I fear that if I had caffeine now I shall never get back to sleep
 
7:02 PM
Coffee... great idea. Running on 5 hours of sleep on a Monday is a little rough.
 
I'd just leave that as a general "Coffee... great idea. Monday is a little rough" :)
 
@DanMcGrath Edit accepted. :)
 
@Dan McGrath: how are you sure of that? Are you a psychic or something? I would have voted for you.
 
If you're interested in being a moderator, you should definitely nominate yourself. Even if you don't win, you might end up modding anyway if the elected mods get too busy and can't fulfil their commitment.
 
@Anna: Dan already did, but he removed himself
 
7:10 PM
@Pierre303 I know.
 
Now Renesis introduction is interesting. programmers.stackexchange.com/election
 
Nice. I was wondering if he (she?) would run.
 
Thank you Pierre, It does mean a lot. I'm definitely not psychic; I just felt that I would vote for several of the nominees above myself. It seems absurd to run in an election when you yourself would prefer the others.
I can still vote to close and edit questions now that I'm 3k+ here, just like I use to do on SO.
 
@JoshK the daily vote cap is 30. it's documented... somewhere... struggling to find it...
 
7:16 PM
Its in the SO faq stackoverflow.com/faq
 
Suffrage × 171 Used all 30 votes in a day
and on the badge page
 
and the P.SE faq for that matter programmers.stackexchange.com/faq
 
That's it. Thanks.
 
Does this mean reputation of some 100K users has been built on fraud?
 
7:20 PM
@Pierre303 how so?
 
I just read the blog post instanceofTom suggested. It suggests fraud is quite common.
 
But it also says they came up with algorithms to combat it
 
I would be surprised if it wasn't.
 
"I reformulated my queries, and I found that there were many, many more suspicious upvote patterns than downvote patterns. More than five times as many! I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, since the value of a single +10 upvote is fairly high. " Jeff Atwood
 
@Pierre303 They remove votes that they determine to be fraudulent and the rep associated with them.
 
7:22 PM
me too, in a tech/programming circle of course there will be people attempting to game the system
 
Ouch, that blog post is quite old ;) 2008 ;)
 
Some people lost rep when the algorithms first came out because some of the votes they got turned out to be suspicious.
 
That is the downside of points-based-sites
 
That is the downside of [ reward ] - based - [ anything ]
 
The Skeet query.
 
7:27 PM
Whats worse than people gaming up votes is the follow the leader herd mentality that many of us appear to engage in. Namely when a user with (very) high rep responds to a question, their answer is a magnet for votes, and will receive more up-votes than if the same answer was posted by a lower rep user
 
Hey guys, I think we should try to do something to make this chat worthwhile. Instead of referencing programmers.stackexchange.com in my bookmark, I'll reference chat.strackexchange.com/rooms/21/programmers. So when I connect daily, I'll be in chat with you since you will do the same ;)
 
I kind of like sitting in the chat... it has the side effect of monitoring new posts without me having to refresh the page.
 
Exactly, that feature is great
And we can discuss the question and potential moderation actions, before doing them.
 
Yeah... why are more of us not in here?
 
probably because this is first time that it has been active in at least the last 35 days
 
7:32 PM
Uptick of interest and activity because of the moderator election?
 
I am even more surprised with the (lack of) population in the SO Tavern chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/5/the-so-tavern-general
 
@Anna, that is exactly why I first started hanging in here despite it being inactive
 
@DanMcGrath @AnnaLear likewise
crickets
 
7:49 PM
pin drop
 
chirp
 
afternoon
 
Morning
 
Hi @John
 
anyone here play around with the SE APIs yet?
 
7:57 PM
Not I
 
Hmmm, SO is going to have a big problem in 5 years time.
 
Oh?
 
I don't disagree, but what prompted that thought?
 
It is hard to see it not becoming what it is trying to fix (A repository of incorrect information). In 5 years, a lot of the top voted answers could evolve to be incorrect due to progressions in the programming languages
 
8:08 PM
That's happening already to some extent. Most C# questions start with a series of comments asking for the .NET version the poster's using.
 
I definitely have experienced that, I have seen deprecated solutions in accepted answers for questions
 
What I see happening is a ton of now incorrect answers being the highest-voted and accepted answers
and being the first google result
 
If they are smart, they will evolve some features into the SE sites that allow the community to address this issue
 
I think it should balance out over time. People have the same problems over and over (in general), so the same questions will make it back to the front page and get newer answers.
 
I know that if there was an outdated answer, and I had a button I could click to flag it as so, that I would be proactive in using it
 
8:13 PM
@instanceofTom, that is actually a good idea imho. There will probably have to be some restrictions around it (age of question, silver/gold badges for tags in the Q, etc)
@AnnaLear
 
I dunno... I think that unless the outdated answer is somehow wrong (beyond simply being dated), then just putting up a more current answer is a better way to go. The question would then be less localized.
 
I like the flagging idea
 
@AnnaLear At what point do you not close as a duplicate? Also, there is a big push to search first. Yes, some people post duplicates anyway, but I would like to think that is just the tip of the iceberg with the majority searching for there answer and using that
 
Though if the domain is very specific moderators might not be qualified to determine that
 
Why don't you open a question on Meta.SO and ask this there. I think it's worth raising
 
8:15 PM
@Anna, how would you deal with giving that answer proper visibility? I don't think people will be very active in unaccepting deprecated answers to accept new more current ones
 
I will. But I felt a discussion was in order, which would have been inappropriate for a Q&A site :)
 
It'd be appropriate for meta :)
@DanMcGrath As users come and go the knowledge of questions that have already been asked will change as well. So the new question might not get closed. Or closing it as a duplicate would draw attention to the original question and it could be "resurrected". It's difficult to predict exactly how it would go down... I think it could work, but I may be a bit idealistic.
@instanceofTom True. I don't think answer acceptance really matters in that scenario, though. If a question's answers cover different language versions (i.e. .NET 2.0, 3.5 and 4.0 or Python 2.x vs Python 3), then it's a useful question regardless of which answer is the accepted one.
Well, rather Python 2.x vs Python 5 or whatever it'll be in 5 years :)
The visibility would be assured by the fact that a new answer would bump the question back to the front page even for a short while. And hopefully people looking for a solution to that question would read beyond just one answer.
 
There should be some flag, and if enough users flag a question as old, there should be a link/button somewhere on the question to deal with it, either by re-asking a modernized version of the question, or drawing attention to it somewhere on the SE site, or really anything that allows the community to monitor/take action
 
@instanceofTom There is a flag for that, flag for mod attention and make that a comment
 
the less effort required by community members to take the appropriate action the more participation you will have
 
8:26 PM
0
Q: Will SO have a big issue in 'x' years time with a mass of now incorrect answers?

Dan McGrathIt is hard to see it not becoming what it is trying to fix (A repository of incorrect information). In 5 years, a lot of the top voted answers could evolve to be incorrect due to progressions in the programming languages, etc. What I see happening is a ton of now incorrect answers being the high...

 
@JoshK I would be afraid that that won't work in scale, in order to properly crowd-source the work of dealing with deprecated answers there needs to be a standardized method of dealing with the issue, flagging as 'other' and adding a comment is too general of a method of dealing with this and as a result I think you would see a lot less user participation
 
@JoshK. Do you really think the moderators will be able to keep up with it? As the years going on the amount of answers that will become deprecated when something changes will grow quite large. It would be 3-4 years worth of answers in the topic.
btw, wow. This is the first time I have seen a second line of user icons on the right in P.SE
 
On an unrelated note, I love that someone has "Popular Demand" as their Meta.SO name. "Closed by Popular Demand" amuses me a little every time I see it.
13
 
haha
 
That's great.
 
8:31 PM
haha
 
@instanceofTom: Perhaps, but a specialized method of dealing with one issue?
@Dan: Same
 
@JoshK, if you keep the required amount of screen real estate minimal, and only show the deprecated answer controls on pages where they are likely relevant (old questions), then I would say the cost vs befit ratio would be pretty high
And who knows, maybe it wont be a 'specialized method dealing with one issue', I could imagine it evolving as part of a set of solutions to deal with different quality control issues
 
@instanceofTom It's possible that someone would give a dated answer to a recent question. Or that an old answer isn't outdated at all. That'd be a difficult heuristic to implement.
 
things that are beyond the scope of what moderators can reasonably handle
 
@AnnaLear, the dated answer on a new question is okay. They can be dealt with by normal voting
 
8:37 PM
I agree, in the case of a dated answer to a recent question, this happens from time to time, and the community usually informs the poster so
 
It is the answers that were once correct that silently slided into deprecation that are the issue
 
plus, you dont want a heuristic that determines if an answer is old, you leave that judgement up to the community, where heuristic are useful is determining which questions are potentially outdated
 
@DanMcGrath True enough. It still seems a bit odd to me to have two ways to deal with the same issue then. And I think that a dated answer isn't always a bad answer that needs to be removed.
 
It isn't always, but when you have 'x' amount of years of questions that contain potentially wrong answers competing against the current crop of Q&As, the signal-to-noise ratio will increasingly become worse.
 
8:41 PM
That's true.
 
It certainly will need to be handled eventually
 
9:07 PM
I took a picture of us
 
Group photo! Lol :)
Angry Birds, lively P.SE chatroom and it isn't excessively hot yet. A reasonable start to a day off work.
 
@Dan, lucky its your day off
 
@pierre...nice I am a green snowflake...so purdy
 
and it's a public holiday tomorrow.
 
I don't have it off :-\
 
9:23 PM
have a good evening everyone
 
bye @John
 
9:41 PM
See you tomorrow guys
 
ciao
 
Anyone here?
 
@Pierre303 Very nice
@PSUKardi Yes, people are here
Might not be always viewing the chat room
I tend to drop in when I notice that icon blinking or I notice I haven't checked in a while after finishing something.
 
9:46 PM
Gotcha, just curious. Figured I'd check this place out.
 
I'm just lurking
 
I'm still around
 
chirp
 
bark
 
crickets
 
9:52 PM
tumbleweeds
 
10:03 PM
I think part of the silence is attributed to lack of discussion topics, when @DanMcGrath posed the question of how to deal with old answers, the chat was blowing up
 
10:58 PM
So, how possible is it for someone with no Masters degree to find a software engineering/software developer/code monkey job nowadays? I am 22 years old and graduating with a BSc in Computer Science in a few months and I'd love to avoid doing a MSc and just jump in the swimming pool immediately. Any chances for me to find a job, other than in a consultancy company?
 
I can only speak about Australia, but here a hiring someone for there first programming job with a Masters Degree is a rarity
s/there/their
Places still hire people without ANY degree for programming roles
 
In the United States, certain companies specifically view a masters (with no experience) as a positive (financial firms or other large companies) but many just want programmers with a BSc degree or even just experience.
 
I would put being personable miles above having a Masters Degree in terms of landing a job.
 
@sebkom I think it may actually be easier for you to get a job as a fresh grad, with only a BS than it would be to find a job looking for someone with a MS and no experience
 
Thanks everyone for the replies! The "problem" with me is that people of my age usually have a Masters too. And that I don't have any major personal projects to demonstrate my skills. Apart from my dissertation project, that is.
 
11:13 PM
That isn't an issue. I didn't actually graduated from my BCompSc until I was 26
Since then I've been a programmer, lead programmer, systems analyst and now systems architect.
Although, I do work at the real world equivalent of IniTech :)
 
@DanMcGrath Office Space? :P
 
@sebkom, I don't know much about the UK (where your profile says you are located), but in the US not very many 22year olds have graduate level degrees
 
Indeed. I actually went through a period with over 5 bosses =) That was, err, fun.
Aha, so you can edit things you have already sent... Have I just been blind and it's always been like that, or is it a newish feature?
 
( I am 22, and just received my BS in Computer Science last year )
 
@instanceofTom Bachelors in the UK take 3 years so you can even have a degree when you are 20.
Nevertheless, interesting replies, I was 90% sure that I am going to have a hard time finding a job. And, quite honestly, I really don't want to do a Masters, my opinion is that it's a waste of money and time, unless you are in a top university.
 
11:22 PM
You should work on some personal projects though, you don't necessarily need to produce a final product, but you should experiment and gain a level of understanding with different technologies/languages/platforms/libraries/etc, then when you interview you can discuss the ways in which you: used x to solve y while working on z
come work in the US plenty of BS jobs :-p
 
@instanceofTom All I need is some money and a green card, piece of cake! :D
 
Anyways, thanks for the replies, I am off for tonight. I guess I am going to visit regularly now that I discovered this room!
Have a good morning/afternoon/evening/night everyone
 
you too
 
I wonder if any of the people in this room ever used Euphoria?
0
A: Interesting or unique types in programming languages?

Dan McGrathI had a soft spot in my heart for Euphoria's data types when I was younger It is structured as thus: Object -> Atom -> Sequence Atom = A single numeric value Sequence = A sequence of Objects -- examples of atoms: 0 98.6 -1e6 -- examples of sequences: {2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17, 19} {1...

 
11:34 PM
interesting
never head of it
 
wow
what an obscure but easy to do exploit...
Think of any site running an affected version of PHP that always users to enter there age in years... Forums galore.
 
yeah thats what I was thinking
and the # of servers running the affected version is going to be high considering the patch is only what, 18 days old?
 
ya
Root cause: Using an approximation algorithm that does not guarantee termination when taking into consideration rounding errors
 
oy vey
read some similarly disturbing things about mine-craft's engine ( with decompiled code )
 
11:52 PM
I figured you guys might appreciate this project I've been working on:
http://forums.devshed.com/net-development-87/web-terminal-781835.html
 
thanks :)
An actual implementation is here: u413.com
 
Already followed the link on the forum ;-)
 
ah, duh
 
Reminds me of the XKCD command line unixkcd uni.xkcd.com
 
11:56 PM
and inspected your html
this is programmers .stackexchange.com
 
lol
 
@dan yeah I've bumped into that before.
sadly I can't say it was inspiration as I only found it after the creation of u413
My actual inspiration was from aperturescience.com
 

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