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12:07 AM
 
@AsafKaragila: Here are some of my favorites, regardless of comic content:
[one](http://math.stackexchange.com/a/90515/7850) [2](http://math.stackexchange.com/q/77563/7850) [3](http://math.stackexchange.com/q/77410/7850)
My url skills are lacking
 
The MILP one is nice.
 
Quite a few of my favorite comments have been somewhat ... abrasive, on answers that totally sucked and were later deleted.
 
;)
Along a similar vein as your über-popular comment... my impatience
 
12:22 AM
Cute.
I am going to sleep now.
I hope you all perish in eternal flames of agony by the time I wake up, and when I will open my eyes in the morrow to come there will be nothing but bleak darkness and pure emptiness. Indeed it will be then that I will know that surely the empty set exists, zero is natural, and that ZFC is consistent.
 
To know that {} exists is meaningless. To know that The Infinite exists... profound.
 
@TheChaz I had completely forgotten about that :-)
 
: )
 
12:44 AM
Hey, I'm about to answer my first MSE question, and I'm just wondering what happens if my answer is wrong?
 
We shoot, a man was shot in the leg once doing something similar ...
 
@Gigili I see. Well, it's been a wild ride.
 
Right but it's not easy to tolerate, you know
But seriously, it will get downvoted at most ...
 
@Gigili Ok. I can't believe that I'm nervous about this. Ha!
 
@DavidK Um, I think it's correct.
But I'd wait for someone else to upvote it first, huh
It's correct now that I think more carefully.
 
1:09 AM
i try to avoid answering questions on general principles
 
You better
I got confused which David was the old one
Anyway.
 
exactly what is it i better?
 
9 mins ago, by David Wheeler
i try to avoid answering questions on general principles
 
i better try? i better try to answer? i better avoid?....specificity
 
^that
 
1:20 AM
You better, try, to avoid, answering ...
 
1:32 AM
i can't help myself...pass the peas, would you doll?
 
 
2 hours later…
3:14 AM
@Gigili Did I arrive at an awkward 2 hour moment of silence?
 
3:44 AM
@robjohn Did you find my factorization question to be too simple? Is that why you didn't answer?
 
4:02 AM
@BenjaminLim Hi
 
 
1 hour later…
5:05 AM
Hi all of you!
 
@KannappanSampath Hi
 
i am not here
 
5:24 AM
no one is
 
@Skullpatrol I saw no factorization problem. Did you ping me?
@Mariano: good evening :-)
 
@DavidWheeler you must be. People keep trying to ping you and getting me by mistake.
 
oh the tragedy of having a common name..should i change it to Zebediah or something?
 
Would you mind terribly?
 
@DavidWallace :-)
 
5:32 AM
@DavidWheeler Or if you don't want to change your name, you could just star my next comment.
Typing @ followed by the first few letters of someone's user name only works if there is no other user with a comment in the same room, whose user name begins with the same few letters, but alphabetically precedes the name of the user whom you are trying to ping.
 
i think i have to ask a moderator or something....you know how terribly important my paltry 200 reputation is...must...preserve at...any...cost...
 
I'm surprised that there doesn't seem to be another Rob Johnson, though there are names close.
 
it's too bad that ymar and Kannapan abandoned their convo..i sorta wanted to see how they were faring with that commutator thing
 
hey guys
 
@DavidWheeler what were they discussing?
 
5:35 AM
And I've just seen that there are comments higher up from a David K, whose icon looks almost identical to yours (David Wheeler).
 
@BenjaminLim Howdy!
 
@robjohn wassup
@robjohn yo
 
@robjohn Yes, I did ping you. Pardon the interuption.
 
What are y'all talkin' about
 
which had me really confused, because he was claiming never to have answered a question here before; which I knew wasn't true of Mr Wheeler.
 
5:36 AM
@Skullpatrol I didn't see any ping about factorization, sorry.
 
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Hey do you know what are the first three chapters in osbourne's book on homological algebra? Is the material tough?
 
Oh, I see. What confused Giggly confused me too.
 
that $\{g_{\sigma(1)}g_{\sigma(2)}\dots g_{\sigma(n)}|\sigma \in S_n\} = gG'$ for some $g \in G$ when $|G| = n$.
 
@DavidWheeler How is the commutative algebra going
I will be away from AC for a while got two midsems coming up
One on analysis
another on field theory
 
5:39 AM
@BenjaminLim dunno, i pop in and out
 
@BenjaminLim, I've only browsed the book—never actually read it in detail so I cannot tell you, really
 
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez My supervisor was saying finish some exercises on tensor product and direct/inverse limits in AM and then look at first 3 chaps of that book. That's why I asked :D
 
i said that they should look at G = S3, but then i had to leave for awhile
 
it is a good book, I've been told so many times
 
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Thanks. My supervisor was trying to explain Tor that day to me
 
5:42 AM
@Skullpatrol I don't understand the question. You need to try all combinations of factors of the leading and trailing terms.
 
he was saying something like if we have $A \rightarrow B \rightarrow C$ and we tensor it by something, then in general the sequence is no longer exact on the left so there is a kernel which he denoted by Tor something.
 
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez He was also trying to explain to me how you have this sequence of Tor stuff that does not end
 
because tor is also not exact, so one has to redo the procedure and so on
 
Man this stuff sounds exciting
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez One day I overheard some algebraists talking and then one guy was like ¨ take the injective resolution of this and this", man........
Can't wait for the day to do this stuff
 
5:45 AM
heh
it is cool
:)
 
14x^2 -17x + 5 The negative factors of 5 are ( -1, -5)
I want to know why I have to consider (-5, -1) also for negative factors of 5?
But for the quadratic term you only use x, 14x and 2x, 7x? not 14x, x and 7x, 2x.
 
@Skullpatrol you have to consider all possible combinations... if you just used -1 and -5, you'd have to consider x and 14x and 14x and x, and so on
there's more possible $x^2$ term factorizations, so its more efficient to switch the -1 and -5 around to cover everything
 
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Do you remember when you first starting this stuff? I remember when I first started learning topology just writing down the sentence "Let $X$ be a topological space" sent shivers down my spine :D :D :D :D
@Skullpatrol What are you trying to do?
 
(2x - 1)(7x - 5)
 
5:53 AM
i started like this: (x-)(14x-)...that didn't work, got -19x and -71x, third try was the charm
factoring stuff has always seemed like cheating....if you know the answer, you can find the answer
 
@robjohn When you said "You need to try **all** combinations of factors of the leading and trailing terms." I want to know why I have to consider (-5, -1) also for negative factors of 5?
But for the quadratic term you only use x, 14x and 2x, 7x? **not** 14x, x and 7x, 2x.
 
@Skullpatrol because what matters is which factors get paired with what. Once you've settled on 2x and 7x, that locks in what has to happen with the 1 and the 5.
If you had settled on 7x and 2x, you'd just get the same factors in the other order.
 
@Skullpatrol because you have to decide if (if you're using 1 and 14) "the x goes with the -5, or the x goes with the -1"
if you exchange the "quadratic" factors while holding the "constant factors" fixed, it's the same as holding "quadratic factors" fixed, and exchanging the "constant factors"
try it both ways, you'll see what i mean
 
@robjohn @DavidWallace @DavidWheeler So its not really true that yoy have to try ALL combinations?
 
or as an algebraist would say: if R is commutative, so is R[x].
well, in point of fact there's 8 possible combinations, but 4 of them are just the factorization "with the order of the factors reversed"
(x - 1)(14x - 5) = (14x - 5)(x - 1)
 
6:04 AM
Also, if you multiply everything by -1 it makes no difference; so that also cuts it down by half.
 
and so forth....
 
That is (2x-1)(7x-5) = (-2x+1)(-7x+5)
 
ok, we could factor $14x^2$ as (-2x)(-7x), but seriously....
 
which is why you only need to worry about negatives at one end, not the other.
 
again, an algebraist would say: "unique up to a unit"
in this case (if we are just considering integers), the units are $\pm 1$
with quadratic polynomials, it's traditional to write the coefficients of x terms of linear factors as positive, but you could do the opposite, just to be "different"
$x^2 - 2x + 1 = (1 - x)(1 - x)$, for example
 
6:12 AM
@robjohn Are you still there Rob?
 
6:24 AM
Does anybody know what "seen 0s ago, talked 38m ago" means when I click on the gravatar of someone: Specifically what does "seen" mean?
@DavidWheeler @DavidWallace Thank you both ;-)
 
Hey, I've just noticed that I no longer have any "start bounty" links on any site. Has this happened to everyone, or is it just me?
 
@DavidWallace I think I have that option visible to me... @DavidWallace
 
Should I ask on one of the meta sites? I've just promised someone a bounty (for a fantastic answer), then discovered myself powerless to keep my promise.
 
@DavidWallace I think you should. : D
@DavidWallace But are you sure it's old enough for starting a bounty?
Which Question is that, if I may ask?
 
6:40 AM
Oh, how old does it have to be?
 
@DavidWallace Question should be atleast two days old.
6
A: Where is the bounty button?

Marc Gravell my reputation is 51 You need 100 rep to start a bounty. See the blog: If: you have at least 100 reputation your question is at least two days old your question does not yet have an accepted answer.

 
So I have to wait 2 days and hope that the OP doesn't accept an answer?
Damn, they already have. And it was the wrong answer.
 
No, I think you can start a bounty on already answered question, which is not your question, I guess. Let me check.
 
Well, I'll wait two days then see what happens. No big deal; this person can wait.
It's just that there's so much false belief about unit testing out there; this seemed like something I could do to make people aware that in this field, the true belief is a minority belief.
 
@DavidWallace I don't get what you say here. And it is possible to start a bounty...
 
7:17 AM
Yes. Looks like I must wait for two days though.
@KannappanSampath Not sure what you don't get.
 
What is unit testing and what are the beliefs you are talking about and whatnot!
Hi@Jonas
 
Oh, unit testing means writing automated tests for small components of a piece of software. The problem is that most people do it wrong.
 
Oh, I see. : )
 
And therefore, when people answer questions on SO about unit testing, their answers are often wrong. And then people upvote wrong answers and accept wrong answers. And then more people do unit testing wrong.
 
I get the chain. It's bad!
 
7:21 AM
When the situation gets really bad, people who KNOW how to unit test get flustered, and begin several sentences in a row with the word "And".
 
:-)))
@DavidWallace BTW, did you look at a recent answer of mine? It has an olympiad flavour to it! Please let me know of your comments!
 
OK, I'll go and look now.
You'll have to tell me which answer you mean.
 
@DavidWallace This one Sorry, I should have pointed out clearly!
 
Umm, you want me to comment on its olympiad-nature, or on the comments between you and Jeremy Carlos?
 
@DavidWallace Probably the first one more and the second one less. : )
 
7:34 AM
OK, it's olympiad-like because there's a 4-digit number that's central to the problem, and that is a recent year. But maybe not so olympiad-like because any other number would do. The really special year-questions are ones where the year falls out by coincidence.
As far as Jeremy's comment is concerned, I don't think it was rude.
 
@DavidWallace I have had the feeling, but these days in my country, there are not very hard year-questions. I browse through Indian National Math Olympiad question paper and I always see Diophantine equations, geometry problems and one or two elementary combinatorial problems, and simple functional equations!
 
Sure, there are some easy year-questions out there, and the one that you posted a link to is one of them. Can I illustrate the distinction I tried to make about really speckal year-questions, with the paper from 1988 (the year I competed)?
Here, Q3 is kind of boring. 1988 doesn't really play a special part in the question; they just shoved it in. But Q4 is a different story - here, 1988 just happens to show up, which makes it a far more beautiful question.
 
@DavidWallace Sure, I will love that!
 
Ironically, I scored full marks for Q3 and no marks for Q4 :-)
 
I have to think about problem 4. Looks interesting!
 
7:42 AM
I'm sure that the link that I posted isn't the original paper. I seem to remember that Q4 was written in sigma notation, not as a long sum. Let me keep looking.
Yes, I was right. Click the "download" link next to 1988 on imo-official.org/problems.aspx for the English version of the original paper.
 
@tb What does "factor over" and "descends" mean? Assuming descends is a fancy way of saying maps to. (But it makes no sense to me.)
 
... and just to prove that I was there, you'll find my name on imo-official.org/year_individual_r.aspx?year=1988 - along with (but well below) the famous Terry Tao.
 
@DavidWallace Did you think I don't believe you are an olympian?
I most certainly do. I never googled and did not click on this link as yet!
 
@MattN - yes, I think it just means "maps to" in this context.
 
BBL. Lunch time now!
 
7:57 AM
@MattN: Usually this is in the context where less sophisticated people say "is well-defined" :p
For example, when one tries to define a map $S^1 \to Y$ by defining it in terms of angular distance...
 
@ZhenLin hi, how's it going?
 
hhh
How can I express triangle $(0,0),(a,0), (a/2,\sqrt{3} a/2)$ in some way similar to ball like $R^2=x^2+y^2+z^2$?
I should find some expression to describe the inner points of that triangle but cannot understand how, ideas?
 
@hhh - I don't understand what you're asking.
Are you saying you want a formula that will give you the sides of the triangle in just a single equation?
 
hhh
@DavidWallace Yes, it is probably what I need if I can understand you. Can you explain more what you mean?
Heron's formula, perhaps this?
 
Well, it's easy to give three separate formulas, one for each side and its production. But hard to give a formula that would give you all three sides, and then only the portion that's between the two intersections with the other sides.
Heron's formula tells you the area of a triangle. Is that what you want?
And for the triangle you mentioned, it's not the simplest way to get the area.
 
hhh
8:12 AM
@DavidWallace $R^2=x^2+z^2$ is the circle formula, I want a similar formula for triangle. It is not an area formula so I think I need something else for triangle?!
Page 809 bottom here is the thing that I try to formulate for different shaped objects.
 
So, you're saying you want a single equation involving x and y that's true for any point that's on the perimeter of the triangle, and false for any other point. Do I understand you correctly?
 
hhh
@DavidWallace Yes that is right.
 
That seems quite hard, and not very useful. I will spend some time working it out for you, if you can persuade me that there's some point to this.
 
hhh
Wait a second, I will post here a picture...so you do not nead to read the book...
 
Too late, I already downloaded it.
 
hhh
8:17 AM
Page 809, the part where the case is formulated for a ball and a circle.
 
... which are both quite different from a triangle. I hope you don't think I can read Finnish.
 
hhh
It states that the solution of the boundary-value problem for circle and ball are he below equations $u(x,y)$ and $u(x,y,z)$ -- now what I want to do is to consider different objects such as the equilateral triangles (all sides of the same length).
If I can understand right, I need to formula a perimeter formula in terms of $x$ and $y$ for the triangle. I cannot see how to do that yet, thinking.
 
OK, you can consider them. But if I were to produce such a formula, a lot of the intelligence in it would be around dealing with the fact that there are three separate line segments, and ensuring that all three are dealt with, and that points on the line but outside of the line segment are not included.
Whereas, producing three separate equations for the three lines, and not worrying about the end points, is an absolutely elementary exercise.
 
hhh
@DavidWallace Yes, it is but I want one equation -- perhaps some absolute value trickery? Symmetry could be exploited here somehow, thinking...
If the center of the triangle is in the origin, then do we get that $x_{0}+y_{0}=C$ where $C\in\mathbb R$? If we consider some special norm (not just standard absolute value), can we come up with the formula? Thinking...
 
Reduce the whole lot to polar co-ordinates, and use a floor function to get rid of whatever part of the angle isn't between 0 and $2\pi / 3$.
 
hhh
8:29 AM
@DavidWallace $x=r\cos(\theta)$ and $y=r\sin(\theta)$? Floor function, thinking...
 
Yes, those are polar co-ordinates. Now subtract the appropriate multiple of $2\pi / 3$ from $\theta$ and you'll be cooking with gas.
I have to go now. Not sure whether I'll be back later. If you want to post this as a question on the main site, I'll answer it some time, or someone else can.
 
@DavidWallace Thanks again for the help ;-)
 
hhh
9:00 AM
@DavidWallace Roger, now here. Will be working on it -- floor function, thinking...
 
On second thought i'm not even sure anymore that the homos look like z^n @tb
Thank you Zhen and David
 
The what?
I can now read papers everywhere! Using my new iPad!
 
@Matt: good morning
@Jonas: same greetings to you
 
@Ilya Hi!
 
@Jonas: bought iPad 3?
 
9:15 AM
@Ilya Yes!
 
congrats! :D
 
Now I don't know what to do with it! :D.
But it is certainly a nice toy.
 
@JonasTeuwen whenever you find nice apps, tell me - I feel a lack of them
@tb: good sunny morning
 
Mendeley?
 
Morning, all!
 
9:16 AM
@JonasTeuwen still haven't started using it
morning, Theo
 
Morning!
 
@Asaf: I need to talk to you about chat rules
 
@MattN They do. Here I use descends to and factors over as synonymous. The situation is this: you have a group $G$ (here $\mathbb{R}$) with normal subgroup $N$ (here $2\pi\mathbb{Z}$). Given a homomorphism $f: G \to H$ I say $f$ factors over (descends to) $G/N$ (or more precisely factors over $\pi: G \to G/N$) if $f = g\pi$ for some homomorphism $g: G/N \to H$, in other words this happens if and only if $\ker{f} \supset N$.
Hi Kannappan
 
@hhh I just posted what I think is the solution to your triangle problem in polar co-ordinates. Do you want to take over from here; or do you want me to try and put it back into rectangular co-ordinates?
Whichever you pick, please check first whether it's what you want.
 
9:28 AM
;-)
 
hhh
I cannot understand what you want to say with that formula, it becomes

$$r\cos\left(\frac{2\pi}{3}\left(\frac{3\theta}{2\pi}-\lfloor\frac{3\theta}{2\pi}\rfloor\right) -\frac{\pi}{3}\right) = r\cos\left(\frac{-\pi}{3}\right)=1$$

some gabs missing...
 
Gabs are usually missing.
 
hhh
err gaps
 
@Ilya ?
 
hhh
wait a floor function, have to think this again...
 
9:33 AM
@AsafKaragila should we add there that it's not so good to star every part of the answer on your question?
 
Hi @AsafKaragila
 
hhh
but why floor function with $\frac{3\theta}{2\pi}$ like that, thinking..
 
@Ilya Well, I don't think we should limit starring.
Hi @Kannappan.
 
@AsafKaragila ok, as you wish. Just sometimes it is annoying
starring message usually involves the intention that the message is also useful for other users/for the transcript
 
@Ilya Now that's just not true! :-D
 
9:36 AM
@AsafKaragila what do you mean? )
 
@AsafKaragila How do the Garnir dream spaces do? For some reason this name makes me think of dragons swords and dwarfes. Maybe Garnir's dream space is the torture corner in the cave of a nasty dwarf?
 
@hhh Get your hands on some clever software that draws graphs of these things, and try chaging things around a little, just to see what happens.
 
@tb Still not finished with Whitehead... :\
 
BTW, What is that "The Bin" room?
 
@Ilya If you investigate the stars in the room the only pattern emerging is nonsense!
@KannappanSampath Oh, there used to be a way for room owners to move messages into other rooms. So a room owner could create a "trash bin room" and essentially delete messages from the room by moving them there.
Alas they took away this privilege as well.
 
9:39 AM
I thought so...
1 message moved from Got Loopy!
 
@tb "Here lies dragons"
Hmmm.
Hang on. I think I know how to do that one!
1 message moved to The Bin
 
:-)
Oh, so, there is a mild relief from trivialities if Asaf is around.
 
Yes.
Good thing I am usually around.
 
:-)
You know what, I conjecture that the newest user Rob is a patrol of this chat room almost surely. @AsafKaragila
 
Who?
Also Skullpatrol's original username was Rob.
 
9:47 AM
The first step to proving the conjecture is yours.
Do you want a link to his user at the main site?
 
Sure, why not.
My cat is all crazed up and running around from one side of the apartment to another in a frenzy of white fur.
 
Skull, maybe.
His only question was exactly the one that skullpatrol asked me in chat.
 
hhh
@DavidWallace ...added there a plot, for some reason, it is open triangle here, odd....thinking...
 
How is his username different from what it is here?
 
9:51 AM
He originally deleted his account from MSE, but it is likely that the global SE account remains, so when he registered again it was relinked and the badges were given.
I was wondering about that user before, actually. It makes a lot more sense now.
 
@hhh huh? I don't understand what this plot is.
 
@DavidWallace It's a Plot B, the Plot A is the discussion about Skullpatrol's new user on the main site.
 
@AsafKaragila definitely skull
 
I am not sure, I still understand that....
 
The main characters are Kannappan, anon and myself; secondary characters are you and hhh; trenary characters are Jonas.
 
9:53 AM
@hhh - ignoring the background noise, is that plot in rectangular co-ordinates or polar?
 
@tb Yes, that is deducible just from the title of the question. :-P
 
@AsafKaragila Thanks.
 
@JonasTeuwen What? you're not taking any part of this plot, you jerkwad.
 
tb went missing in the list of players!
 
@Asaf that's not very nice.
 
9:54 AM
@KannappanSampath He was inactive when I composed the list... :-P
 
@DavidWallace But he is a jerkwad, and he knows that. Also, everyone else know that... :-P
 
You're aware of what "jerkwad" actually means?
 
Yes, I am.
 
9:57 AM
Hi @MattN
 
Are you aware of the fact that I know Jonas for about a year and a half now, and we're quite friends?
Good morning Matt.
 
Probably not for long, if you continue calling him that.
 
On a completely different note: It's been a loooong time that the last active question on the front page was modified 7 hours ago.
I noticed last night. Why the sudden drop in activity?
 
@DavidWallace You obviously don't know neither of us, but very well. You can keep on thinking that being polite is the only way to treat friends.
@tb So I could try and focus on that Whitehead crap.
But I can't.... oh lordie loo, save me!
 
If any of my friends compared me, in public, to a handful of semen, I'd be somewhat upset. Clearly, Jonas is more tolerant than I.
 
9:59 AM
@DavidWallace You haven't lived in Israel, have you?
We're not the politest of nations.
 
If none of your friends publicly compare you to a handful of semen then you're missing out on modern friendship!
3
 

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