@MaskedMan the original one was a blatant opinion poll. Yes the edit invalidated answers, but in this case people really shouldn't have answered in the first place. We could delete this question and ask the OP to start over, but that's not really very different from deleting the answers. One of the answers still kind of works and both could be fixed if their authors want to. Eh, it's messy -- feel free to propose something on meta.
@MonicaCellio Yes, I agree, people should not have answered opinion polls to begin with. One of the answers with "ask your employees what they prefer" is useful, and they answered It without participating in the poll. It now makes for some strange reading. "What are the pros/cons?" ... "Ask your employees." I will make a post on meta later in the day to figure out how best we can handle this question and its answers.
@MaskedMan thanks. I think the "ask your employees" answer can be made to work, perhaps with additional tweaks to the question. I don't know if the other can be made to fit. I don't have time to look at it now, so thanks in advance for your work on this.
@MonicaCellio About that study at Carnegie Mellon, do they just ask the people whom they can get emails from?
Or can one sign up to participate in this
@BradC Friendly tip from someone on the sidelines of this. There is no better way to turn lots of people into sexists then to accuse them of already being sexist by the virtue of their gender. If feminism is to ever achieve it's goals the #1 priority needs to be reigning in the zealots in their own ranks. Currently, all that all this shouting and annoying, noplatforming, bullying and getting people fired is doing is turning the larger public against the cause forever.
There really is no winning with bully tactics. You can't use the tools of evil for good. What you've now done is force (yes force) a lot of very left and progressive leaning people to side with the right wing in opposing you because of all the violation of liberal principles and modes of action that you're comitting.
The simple fact is that you need the majority, and if you keep doing what you're doing, progressiveness itself may fade into obscurity giving rise to the new right. It's already happening in america and europe, progressivism is losing ground on all counts left and right, and it saddens me because despite feminist accusations to the contrary I'm very much in favor of women and minority rights and think we have some ways to go in that regard, just that the current strategies of progressives are
making me so uncomfortable in their unethicality that I can't stand in support with them anymore. Me and many others.
To put it bluntly, I cannot support a political movement that relies on bully tactics and silencing opposition to achieve its goals, no matter how noble these may be.
To align our accounting efforts, I would like to move our payroll frequency to Semi Monthly on the 5th and 20th (or 15th/30th) of each month.
I have read mixed reviews about people preferring every 2 weeks (bi-weekly) to having 2 set paydays (semi monthly). Some say bi-weekly is best because it...
This got a lot of downvotes for initially being title "What do you prefer?" but this seems to be okay now (though I'm going to fix that horrible title case), can this get some upvotes?
<Some question about design or product>
What are the pros and cons?
Sometimes, these questions get closed as 'too broad' or 'primarily opinion'. Why is that?
@Magisch Well, he's loud, a boor, has some personal hygiene problems, a grating voice, half a dozen audible or visible tics, difficulty grasping the concept of professional norms. And his work ethic can probably be guessed from the fact that he got himself elected union representative to avoid getting fired. I don't think I've ever seen a person to whom the term half-wit applied more.
@gnat Not quite the same thing on a non-technical site in my view. On a technical site "what are the pros/cons of Java versus Perl" is likely off-topic but even there something like "When does it make sense to switch from X to Y?" might be appropriate. Here such questions typically have a narrower scope and are usually perfectly answerable from experience.
It's less "what do you think is best?" and more "when should I do X?". I think we have or had an explicit mention of rephrasing an unclear question to "what are the pros/cons?" in one of our close reasons as well. "What are the pros/cons?" is usually title short-hand for a question that is often asked as "Should I do X?" instead.
Plot twist, Richard and Lilienthal are actually talking about each other, watch as the details thicken, only here in chat! ;)
On another note @DavidK Thanks for catching that edit, I was googling the quote and thought that was the source. I then found that book was published in 2017 and I had other sources from 2015. Alas, blame my bad research. Seems to be no real origin, though this is the earliest reference I can find to it.
@Draken I don't know how common it is globally, but in the US at least it's something you hear all the time. To me it's always seemed like one of those things that has just been around forever.
It's not something that I've ever heard in that exact context in the UK, I've had similar sayings, but that does appear to be very specific. I might actually go ask that question over there, as it's piqued my curiosity.
@RichardU But that's implying that if you're more than 5 minutes early than the scheduled time, then it's bad, no? I know German culture is to be very punctual and they like their time keeping, but I've never heard of them complaining because someone was too early.
I worked for hotel x, where my boss blindly supported subordinates of a particular nationality.
The persons of the other nationality in the team were never promoted, appreciated, or given a pay hike, he created situations where persons of other nationalities were made to look stupid and tactfull...
Hmmm, better with those edits. Perhaps "How can I grow professionally in a company that openly discriminates against my nationality?" is on-topic, though I doubt there will be many answers beyond "You can't."
I think for environments like that one, leaving is the only option. I was in a similar situation twice. Once when a new manager was hiring people of his race only, and firing and replacing anyone who was not, one by one. Another was where they got rid of people with disabilities after one too many ADA filings.
The problem is that while YES what they're doing is illegal in most areas, nobody has time to be spending years in court fighting such battle.
@Lilienthal yeah HNQ related discussions are always at risk of downvotes now. In the past it was opposite because back then Stack Overflow suffered just like other sites. But now they are protected and have no HNQ pain so to them it is only a matter of keeping having fun (at the expense of smaller sites but since these are not their sites they naturally don't care)
While this advice is spot on for this situation, keep in mind that anyone in management has an implied duty of care to their team and for upper management also to the company's interests. Washing their hands of the problem is usually not an option for those profiles. Of course people with that experience should ideally be aware of that already. — Lilienthal ♦4 hours ago
@Lilienthal I don't see any explicit advice in that answer.
@Magisch In response to your comment: "There is no better way to turn lots of people into sexists then to accuse them of already being sexist by the virtue of their gender." Is this a reference to something I said in the discussion yesterday? Or a reference to feminism more broadly?
Mind you, I'm a progressive. Much to some people's ire here. I'm firmly on board with fighting discrimination and bad life circumstances when they happen and I also dislike injustice intensely
He says what the asker should have been doing already. He doesn't explicitly say what the asker should do now. (I also think immediately jumping ship is problematic, and the best answer would tell the asker to make jet fuel out of the lemons, but that's too much to expect, isn't it...)
And I think movements like BLM do themselves a disservice by focusing exclusively on black people. You can fight inner city poverty for everyone and by proxy you will help black people exceptionally more (since it affects them more, due to historical reasons) and still have everyone on board. What they demand however is largely focusing on one race (black people) in these (absolutely justifiable!) efforts to reduce poverty and human suffering, and suddenly all the others who are suffering
Feminism is huge and diverse, with much internal disagreement about goals and tactics and whatnot. I'm sure you can find objectionable examples. I think opponents of feminism try to paint those examples as typical, when they are not.
the same thing (comparably fewer, but still some are suffering) feel left out and disenfranchised. THAT is why progressivism is failing with poor white people
Like it or not these people are deciding the fate of the country you live in, so turning your back on them wont work (see the most recent pres. election in the US)
@BradC You can absolutely focus on societal issues like inner city poverty and the school to prison pipeline. You don't have to make it racial these things are really bad itself and you could get most people on board to fight them
This is just a repeat of my conversation yesterday. Black activists can't say "hey, we'd really appreciate it if you'd give us some justice and fairness" without everyone jumping in with BUT WHAT ABOUT THE WHITE PEOPLEZZ!!
I have issues when feminists "collect male tears" or think "reverse sexism isn't real I can hate men all I want"
@BradC Maybe because wanting society to exclusively (to the detriment of other issues - most progressives are on an all or nothing approach) focus on one race is pretty much textbook racist
So if you agree that addressing an issue (say, the cycle of punitive courts in the inner city) will help everyone, why can't we still discuss it in the context of BLM?
If you noticed yet I'm already on your side I'm trying to convince you to be more considerate to win over others
there are just a bunch of tactics commonly used by progressives I disagree with so strongly that I can't help but oppose them when ever they try to use them
And I'm telling you: 1) Your suggestions won't work. People opposed to BLM aren't opposed to it because they don't ask nicely enougyh
And 2) Your suggestions ("tone policing") are a frequent silencing tactic of actual opponents of progressive values, so it is sometimes hard to tell the difference
- No platforming - Silencing opposition - Shouting down debate - Declaring whole groups of the population to be "-ist" - Changing word definitions to make injustice comitted against the majority ok - Wanting to be shielded from being disagreed with (trigger warnings) - Getting people fired for political opinions - Doxxing
All of these I've personally seen comitted by people on my side of most issues
But make absolutely sure you're not seeing those things when they're not actually there. As I said, it is an extremely common tactic (among actual opponents of progressive values) to strawman the positions of BLM or feminists or whatever, when that's not at all what they said or intended.
> Over the weekend, former New York Times executive editor Jill Abramson – fired in part, she says, over conversations about pay disparity – told a reporter that the best way for newsroom leaders with a limited budget to fix salary inequalities is to “bring the guys down to give a little more to the girls”.
“I did that at The Times. No one’s happy to get a cut, but too bad.”
Then it's actually sexist
That right there is a sexist and unfair solution to an actual problem
This is the image progressives project to the world
People don't see the millions of sensible suggestions they see the couple dozen completly idiotic and sadly still not widely condemned nutjobs that outright ruin it for everyone
This is what led to the sad state of affairs that makes it so I have to qualify me being a progressive with "But not like these idiots"
So not all ideas are great, that goes without saying. But its not the fault of feminism that the Guardian chooses to publish that, or that the anti-feminists pick up that story and spread it far and wide and shout "SEE SEE SEE THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO TO US!! WE WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG"
It tears me apart to see reasonable people turn their back on issues due to this and so many do
Where is the widespread condemnation for Jessica Valenti (who has been spouting this retrograde sexist bullshit on the guardian for years now) in the same way "sane" right wingers condemn the likes of richard spencer?
There may be reasonable people who do so. But there are also people looking for an excuse to oppose a moment's "tactics" when they don't feel free to admit that they actually oppose their values
Where is the widespread feminist outcry against the overt and hardcore misandrists like the right wingers condemn the open racists?
Progressivism has an image problem and a tactics problem, not a truth problem
And it angers me because we could legitimately shape the world into something much better if we didn't fail to properly excise the idiots from our ranks
@AaronHall True, but it's implicitly telling the OP to find a new job and not let the troubles of the company concern him. Its short like most of Kilisi's answers but sufficient for an answer I think.
but its a tactic of opponents. The "image problem" is primarily a strawman of true values. A deliberate distortion, for the most part, of what reasonable progressives believe
You seem to think that (mainstream) feminists don't actively disagree or distance themselves from others with whom they disagree. They do. All the time.
See question: What are the pros and cons of a bi-weekly versus semi-monthly payroll schedule?
The question started as an opinion poll, but received a couple of answers anyway. It was then edited to a "pros and cons" question (and has received a couple of more answers since).
This edit invalid...
@EthanTheBrave Could you please share a link to where to find a definition. I thought it was something like trying to get advantage of others in a society. Actually killing it in the process. — rraallvv2 mins ago
I don't think its quite that simple, but I think it is part of it. For example, democrats want the government to work, republicans (recently) want to break it, tear it down. It's like playing chess against a pidgeon, you're thinking about your bishop, and they're pooping on the board and knocking over all the pieces.
So do democrats flip the board too? use the same underhanded tactics? Isn't "we want the government to work" a progressive value?
@enderland What? They LITERALLY want to destroy and disassemble major departments of our government
Republicans LITERALLY shut the government down during Obama's term, so they could turn around and say "see, the government is really bad at what it does"
This is not a secret tactic. This is a major platform of the republican party
@Magisch Ah, no. I'm not going to get into Bernie here, but he was far far far from a sure thing. The Republicans had a DEVISTATING book of dirt on him.
This gets into the convo we had yesterday @BradC - democrats this past election completely failed to acknowledge the "poor white" group of America and Trump didn't, so they voted for Trump
It's not surprising at all to me, though most mainstream Democrats seem clueless as to how that's possible
Goodness, gracious, you people are tempting me to talk politics on Stack Overflow - and I don't do that. Hit me up on twitter and I'll be happy to tell you how the world works.
@AaronHall Isn't that the way it's supposed to work? The internet isn't there for you to have your own opinion, it's for other people to shout at you their opinion until it's believed. Serious civil discussion on the internet is hard to come by and worth it's weight in gold
Don't have the energy to rehash the election at the moment. You might not be surprised to find I don't agree with that "common wisdom" about what the democrats failed to do
@MaskedMan I'm going to a black mass this weekend held by Anton LaVey's group. There's going to be a discussion later about fascist politics and feminism.
See question: What are the pros and cons of a bi-weekly versus semi-monthly payroll schedule?
The question started as an opinion poll, but received a couple of answers anyway. It was then edited to a "pros and cons" question (and has received a couple of more answers since, but that's not relev...
<Some question about design or product>
What are the pros and cons?
Sometimes, these questions get closed as 'too broad' or 'primarily opinion'. Why is that?
See question: What are the pros and cons of a bi-weekly versus semi-monthly payroll schedule?
The question started as an opinion poll, but received a couple of answers anyway. It was then edited to a "pros and cons" question (and has received a couple of more answers since).
This edit invalid...
The Water Cooler
The Water Cooler