The Nineteenth Byte

@TuxCopter Ugh, recursive acronyms are so last decade.

ASCII-only

2:09 PM

@Qwerp-Derp No way, any language supporting OOP is not a bad language

Anonymous

@ndenarodev What do you have in mind?

Isn't PHP basically HTML and Javascript's demon-child?

@ASCII-only srs

No, it's when a group of drunk devs coded something and it created PHP

3

That's the most logic explanation

ASCII-only

@Qwerp-Derp No

I thought that was the Dark Web

2:11 PM

TIL PHP was created a few days after JS, June 8 and May 23 1995 respectively

> there was never any intent to write a programming language

2

proof that my explanation is true

you all have a lot of hate for a pretty great language

i mean... it's not java

but you know

PHP is great? TIL

you're welcome

easy to learn

@TuxCopter don't take him seriously, it's a joke

2:14 PM

good for proof of concepts

PHP sucks

Java isn't that bad

easy db interaction

PHP is

> The fact that PHP lacked an original overall design but instead developed organically has led to inconsistent naming of functions and inconsistent ordering of their parameters.

2:14 PM

open source

I mean this is beautiful

separates string concatenation and addition

Java is kinda(?) bad, but Processing is good

WHOA

Java is the best

@Poke Wait what's string concatenation in PHP vs addition?

2:15 PM

@Poke that's kinda bad for an OOP lang

Addition is probably + (as expected)

But what's concat?

PHP uses period for strcat

@Poke Why?

Why separate the two at all?

Perl does that too

because otherwise you get stupidity like javascript

2:15 PM

PHP is based significantly on Perl

From Wikipedia:

class Person
{
    public $firstName;
    public $lastName;

    public function __construct($firstName, $lastName = '') { // optional second argument
        $this->firstName = $firstName;
        $this->lastName  = $lastName;
    }

    public function greet() {
        return 'Hello, my name is ' . $this->firstName .
               (($this->lastName != '') ? (' ' . $this->lastName) : '') . '.';
    }

    public static function staticGreet($firstName, $lastName) {
        return 'Hello, my name is ' . $firstName . ' ' . $lastName . '.';

Java don't even have unsigned numbers (!)

@Poke js is amazing

@TuxCopter have you met char

Who nuked the stars on the 'there was never any intent to write a programming language'

2:16 PM

IMO OOP langs shouldn't separate concat and additional, non-OOP langs should.

Well no one uses char to store number

^

If so why?

@betseg how does this make sense? You're working in a strongly typed language

Wait is there a requirement to have the <?php tag in PHP code?

2:16 PM

Yes

(I'm thinking Java mainly)

CS teacher says to always cast chat into string

4

Dammit lag in loading, read the first message first

@Downgoat "cast chat into string"

@Qwerp-Derp bcuz

goddammit

2:17 PM

Leave it pls

It's beautiful

I'm not saying PHP is the go to for production usage

@Downgoat chat means cat in french, so you need to cast a cat in a string?

Learn How To Be Transparent

but it has its uses

just like every other language

@TuxCopter I know you're french

@Poke That's still true

2:18 PM

@TuxCopter yes

@LearnHowToBeTransparent Oui je suis français

Je parle un peu francais

Oui oui

Le Dix-Neuvième Byte

Discussion générale pour codegolf.stackexchange.com en français

@Qwerp-Derp I think you need a de after peu

This is how amazing js people are

2:19 PM

@Downgoat No, this is fine

@Downgoat Dammit

I asked if anyone wanted to explain how PHP sucked, and why javascript was better

in JavaScript on Stack Overflow Chat, 1 min ago, by Luggage

Anyone here care to explain why sewer water sucks, and why orange juice is so much better?

In response to my post

@TuxCopter yay first CS teacher say weird thing and now french teacher

@TrojanByAccident JS on its own is pretty bad, it only works well with packages and plugins and stuff

Is long double _Complex the longest built-in type name in C?

2:20 PM

I thought you only omit de after a verb?

@Qwerp-Derp that's not true at all

@betseg long long double _Complex

@TuxCopter can't

@TrojanByAccident JS is bad because it is natural human tendency to bandwagon

Oh :/

2:21 PM

@TrojanByAccident document.getElementById(...).innerHTML vs $(...).html

Done and dusted

@Qwerp-Derp what's wrong with that?

the first makes more sense, IMO

@Qwerp-Derp jQuery? jTRIGERRED

@Qwerp-Derp WHY jQUERY PLEASE NO

Learn How To Be Transparent

@TuxCopter You should use jQuery for that

@TrojanByAccident you are abnormal

2:22 PM

@Qwerp-Derp $.trigerred(true)

for goats sake use the bond operator

No, you're abnormal

@TuxCopter triggered*

@TuxCopter It has a similar effect. It's annoying even if they're "just regullar [sic] cedillas".

@LearnHowToBeTransparent it just looks way better

2:23 PM

@Downgoat What

@Downgoat your hooves are productive today

"You should use jQuery, it solves all of your problems" - SO forever

Learn How To Be Transparent

$(...).html doesn't say what it's doing, whereas document.getElementById(...).innerHTML tells you exactly what it's doing. it gets an element with a certain ID from the document, and loads its inner HTML

people here are too abnormal. LEAVE.

Yeah, everyone who uses jQuery must leave

2

2:24 PM

@Qwerp-Derp e.g. Instead of jQuery $(".goat").each(() => $(this).direction(goat)) do $(".goat")::forEach(elem => elem.direction = goat)

@TuxCopter I don't think so!

I use jQuery and I'm proud of it!

2

@Downgoat But :: don't even exist

@TuxCopter Do you use document.getElementById(...).innerHTML?

@El'endiaStarman what

Fatalize

I don't know a single thing about JS and I'm proud of it

2:25 PM

@TuxCopter opls, use babel

@El'endiaStarman Ayyyy up top

@Downgoat What did you type

@Downgoat what

TuukkaX

@Fatalize That's not what I'm doing. @El'endiaStarman For a 2x2 board, S could be (for example) 442, 1597, 2572... The results could be then fetched with the p-th prime, where p is the 1-based index of the cell +1 . With modulation, 442 mod 3 == 1, 442 mod 5 == 2, 442 mod 7 == 1 and 442 mod 11 == 2, which is a valid board. TBC

JS is shit without ot

TuukkaX

@El'endiaStarman If the top left of the grid has an value, A must have a value. So in the calculations A must be included when calculating the values for the unfilled cells (indexes 2,3,4)

2:26 PM

@Downgoat no

@Downgoat How did you type that so wrong

@Downgoat s/t.*//

Was it your hooves?

It is worse without autocorrect trust me

you have no idea how difficult hooves are on a 4" iPhone

@Downgoat Are you on phone

Aiya there's your problem

2:28 PM

For the first 2 months I golfed on phone

Ffs

@TuukkaX So then, the problem comes down to finding the number 442, doesn't it?

yeah and I even won a lot of comment updoots because of that

And then the comment got nuked ;_;

I think the mere fact that jsfuck exists is proof that javascript is a mess. You can't even argue that demonstrates the power of the language because in 99% of cases you will never need to do anything like that.

I wish there was a "downstar" because you used "updoot"

2:29 PM

@betseg ~~You seem to like definite articles~~

not to mention the package management

@betseg nice

remember the whole "left pad" incident?

Yes

ndenarodev

@Mego I was just revisiting an old golf challenge and wish to update with a better score. This is mostly for the sake of "storing" my changes.

2:30 PM

there's nothing to prevent that from happening again

It was a mess

@betseg btw ASCII-only came back to join C9 for VSL?

VSL is still worked on?

@Poke ???

What is "left pad"

o.o you don't remember/know?

Anonymous

2:31 PM

@ndenarodev Improving your own solutions is always allowed

@Qwerp-Derp theregister.co.uk/2016/03/23/npm_left_pad_chaos

@Qwerp-Derp Someone removed a package named 'left pad' from npm and virtually every package borked

@TuxCopter just because you don't work on VSL don't mean no one else does ;P

@Qwerp-Derp medium.com/@azerbike/… medium.com/@mproberts/…

ndenarodev

@Mego I'm only asking because the contest is about a year old. Not sure if there's any rules about that.

2:32 PM

@TuxCopter Fun Fact: babel has 10MB picture of some tv scene embedded in codebase that does absolutely nothing

What

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11340510

@Downgoat link

WTH did it even do

So basically everything was built on left pad?

Anonymous

@ndenarodev None whatsoever

2:33 PM

@Qwerp-Derp It left-pad a string

@Qwerp-Derp lots of frameworks had it included so they didn't have to write it. it is a simple function

eg it can transform "hello" to " hello"

we had challenges created because of it haha

24

Q: Javascript left-pad golf

Introduction In the wake of the left-pad npm package fallout, let's have a code golf for implementing left-pad. The left-pad function consists of 2 default arguments and 1 additional argument, in the form string, length, (padchar). If the padchar is not given, this is standardized to a space ch...

@TuxCopter ^

Anonymous

@Poke I get not reinventing the wheel, but that's like buying a stick in the middle of a forest

2:35 PM

> Oops! Error 404, unable to process image

well rip

@Mego and what's more is that anyone could have recreated that package in the interim period and put in a lot of malicious code

Anonymous

If leftpad (and other useful, simple stuff) was part of the stdlib (str.rjust anyone?), that problem wouldn't have happened

that should work

so it's more like you're buying a stick in the middle of the forest and your transaction fails so you try again and buy a snake instead

FFS

2:36 PM

@Downgoat still 404

Anonymous

NPM's decision to allow people to remove their contributions is pretty dumb

@Fatalize definitely interested, but now's not a good time (I'm busy over the next couple of days); also the esolang room is probably a better place than TNB

ndenarodev

@Mego Thanks for the help!

@Mego well it would also cause problems to not allow that

All you have to do is type npm publish and boom package on npm!

so let's say I am in .ssh/

Anonymous

@Downgoat That's also extremely poor design

2:38 PM

1) why do you have an npm package in .ssh

@Mego I am not saying they executed the design on removing a package correctly

Fatalize

@ais523 Cool! I'm pretty busy right now too. I will write some specs over the next few days and I will link them to you then

people think this chat has noise problems? weirdos

Anonymous

If you can publish literally everything in a directory just by doing npm publish, that's completely bad design. Shit all the way down.

Doorknob

@Dennis My Ruby answer does use strings, actually. ?x is equivalent to 'x' in Ruby.

2:41 PM

99% of the messages i've read have vastly enriched my life

@MitchSchwartz This is because you are not here when there are no mods

@Mego well you need filled out package.json but still

TuukkaX

@El'endiaStarman Exactly. I think I mentioned it on my previous messages. Finding a number sequence for S, such that S can be created in polynomial time and works with the index sequence, is the challenge.

Dennis

@Doorknob Oh, OK. I hardly know any Ruby. All I knew is that it still worked when I replaced ?x with "x". :P

it seems some people are just not able to appreciate the finer things in life

Anonymous

2:45 PM

@Downgoat If someone is dumb enough to stick anything in their .ssh directory other than SSH keys (especially package.json or setup.py or anything like that), there is no hope for them

for whatever reason

@mods should we lock or do anything about this question because it's a remnant of old pop-cons that's still without any notice:

252

Q: Draw with your CPU

I have come across an article where students used network traffic to draw their university on the country's IPv6 graph. [image] Your goal is simple to tell, but hard to implement. Draw the text MAIL (as it is one of the few words that can be read on a 1D graph) on the CPU graph. It should look...

code-golf

I think some new users have posted similar challenges regarding CPU drawing I'll see if I can find

@Poke aww I wish I saw that before. I had a pretty nice and short C left-pad function.

> code-golf

@quartata It's codegolf but there isn't a way to verify whether an answer produces the correct output other than "I'll know it when I see it"

2:54 PM

@Downgoat to be fair, although the specification is subjective, it's probably going to be clearer whether or not a program complies with it than many actual objective specifications we have; programming languages have a tendency to do weird things, especially esolangs

@Poke OP said "votes despise validity"

@Downgoat Then take that out.

So all answers are valid now???

Most of the answers follow the sample exactly, it should be trivial to turn that into rules.

in general, every time I see someone try to define something other than an input/output pattern objectively, it gets me trying to think up an esolang for which the definition wouldn't work

2:56 PM

personally i like that challenge better as a popcon but i know half the community hates popcons

@Poke the biggest issue with popcons is that a lot of people have personal views on how a popcon must look, and many of those views outright contradict each other, so it's impossible to keep everyone happy at once

(for example, I've seen both the following views expressed: "a popcon should state criteria that voters should use to determine what to upvote" and "a popcon must not state criteria that voters should use to determine what to upvote")

We don't hate popcons but we need objective rules due to this communities hypocrisy

@Poke This wouldn't be a good popcon anyways. This is asking for a very specific task, the "open-endness" you're observing is probably not intentional and just because of underspecifcation

And you've illustrated my point

No you've misunderstood mine. Popcons are no fun if there is no room for creativity or flexibility in the task. This is asking for something extremely precise but it doesn't explain it fully

3:01 PM

I guess part of the reason (maybe even the main reason) popcons fit badly here is that getting lots of upvotes is normally a sign of a bad answer

(and often a bad question, too)

so popcons are basically asking people to submit answers that we don't really want on the site

It's like making Hello World but you can capitalize it any way you want a pop con

Anyways it should be extremely easy to edit this challenge. Who wants to do it

Anonymous

puts flipper on beak

Cool!

Easiest way to do it is to just turn the sample into an SVG

@quartata you know Stuck would win :-P

Then add a rule for some noise tolerance

3:04 PM

unless enough PPCG regulars managed to downvote the post before it HNQ that it got buried

like each point can be off by x

@quartata I think you post a sample picture with very thick lines, and say that the lines of the output have to fall within the lines on the sample picture

Yeah that's better

it's probably also worth defining the letters separately (in particular, allowing their horizontal scales to vary)

otherwise you'll necessarily invalidate some answers (probably including some existing answers) that are subjectively valid

Awesome: ostagram.ru/static_pages/lenta?last_days=30&locale=en

3

3:15 PM

wow, "multiply two numbers" (which is as trivial as it sounds) is now at +25/-29

i.e. +192 reputation, despite being negatively scored

this unfortunately says a lot about what the incentives to post trivial questions are

Erik the Outgolfer

I think it's +67 not +192. You calculated something wrong, it seems.

@quartata it is incredibly if not near impossible to generate a pixel-perfect graph of CPU usage to check against SVG

oh right, question upvotes are worth +5

even so, it's still way more rep than the question deserves

Is there a reason why downvotes or not worth the same as upvotes?

-2 v +10 seems like a very bad idea

Erik the Outgolfer

Question upvotes are +5 though. (not -10)

3:19 PM

I'm talking about answers here but in questions the discrepancy is still significant

it's because anything that's in the least bit controversial tends to attract downvotes from people who dislike it, even if it's not actually wrong

in most online discussions, something that receives a lot of upvotes and a lot of downvotes is nearly always a useful contribution to the discussion

just disliked by half the people participating

SE apparently decided that a controversial answer shouldn't be favoured by posting it at the top of the lists, but should at least be worth reputation

Erik the Outgolfer

Or because people think before they upvote more than before they downvote.

Q: Compute the Hausdorff Distance

well, many sites have the issue that some people downvote every post that competes with one of theirs (or, indeed, downvote everything they don't upvote to make their votes count double)

but the -1 rep penalty deals with that issue fairly well

Anonymous

@ais523 Until you get to the point where you have enough rep that the penalty may as well not exist, but if someone is going to get that much rep, they are either too invested in the system to want to be bad and downvote everything, or the serial voting prevention will kick in. Or they're Geobits.

Newly Featured Questions

18

Introduction The Hausdorff distance measures the difference between two subsets of a metric space. Intuitively, a metric space is just some set with a built-in distance function; in this challenge, we will use natural numbers with the ordinary distance d(a, b) := abs(a - b). The Hausdorff distan...

code-golf number array-manipulation

Sherlock9

3:35 PM

Huh, is this a new bot?

Or am I just not paying enough attention?

Fatalize

Never seen it either.

Anonymous

Not new, but rarely posts

Anonymous

It was created last year

Anonymous

(January, actually)

Anonymous

Check its chat user profile

3:38 PM

Huh, Hamburg's opera house is finally finished. And it only cost 10x the original budget to complete (700ish million).

I thought it would be the next BER.

The latter being a construction failure to large that multiple papers have been written about it.

@mınxomaτ Those are so cool.

Q: Is awarding 1500 reputation to a specific user inappropriate use of bounties?

Some of them are a tad repetitive, but there are a few gems.

New Meta Posts

2

Recently, three answers gained 500 rep bounties at about the same time, with the following bounty explanation: One or more of the answers is exemplary and worthy of an additional bounty. ton ****** is cool and i want to give him internet points These three questions are: Generate lazy ...

discussion bounty

Lynn

3:55 PM

“ton ******” seriously?? :)

I was trying to read some expletive into that before I realized.

Lynn

“OK, I don’t wanna name any names, but a certain US president called Barack ***** has…”

ok so apparently this isn't something that is typically done

good stuff

Lynn

@MitchSchwartz Rep/votes are “for” posts, and coincidentally accumulated by users, yeah. If Ton Hospel posts extraordinary posts, you can award them all big bounties, but eg Generate lazy values is just a port of Neil’s JS answer and doesn’t seem particularly 500-rep-worthy?