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12:44 AM
@daviesgeek It's like the Sixth Sense. "I see moderator people."
2 hours later…
2:16 AM
The calm after the storm...
4 hours later…
5:48 AM
@jrg I did.
@Daniel :-) I like the term.
@KyleCronin Do we really need a tag?
What else do we use to tag posts about John Hodgman?
But if a tag isn't used enough in a certain window of time, it evaporates.
Or something like that.
@Daniel Excuse me for saying so, but who is that?????
In the Justin Long/John Hodgeman commercials -- "Hi, I'm a Mac" -- "and I'm a PC"
He played the PC
Ah!! Now I do know what you're talking about.
(Remember our talk about pop culture awhile back? Now you see....)
(darn, no onebox)
6:00 AM
No, I know what that's ^ about, but I have no idea of actors, etc.
I've seen those commercials and love them!!!
It's the perfect tag for posts about him.
Is it tempting fate to put in the tag wiki "well known and prosperous company" about Adobe?
I just really don't see the point of a tag.
Of course not. But it will go away on its own when it isn't used enough to last.
But I was asking you about the tag wiki edit.
@Daniel Yeah, about that....
I made something up to summarize Adobe as a company?
You don't like it?
I can change it.
I was just worried that it would get created, and never updated, and three years from now when Adobe is on the rocks we'll look stupid.
6:03 AM
Whaddya think I should change it to?
@Daniel That's true.....
How about "Adobe Systems is a computer software company that develops such products as Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Adobe Reader, and Illustrator. It was founded in 1982."
Yeah, I didn't really like that.
There's no ending, final point, conclusion.....
It just ends abruptly
OK, how about "Adobe Systems is a computer software company that develops such products as Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Adobe Reader, Illustrator, and Flash."
That sounds good.
Lemme fix it.
There ya go.
There. Approved. While you're there, you could review my suggested edit to migration.
(This is kind of cool how we all can edit and approve edits to these tag wikis, but it does take two users agreeing before a change happens)
6:06 AM
@Daniel Huh?
I see...
Wait, what rep do you have?
I don't have tag wiki edit privileges.
@Daniel 3.8K
Not 5K yet sadly, but I'm pushing myself there
I can see it, but there's no option to accept it.
Maybe that's at 4K or 5K.
6:08 AM
Yeah...it's too bad.
BTW, what do you teach?
Because I can approve tag wiki edits, but my own edits have to be approved by someone else.
But they still show up in my pending queue, I just can't act on them.
@Daniel Cool.
I was wondering if you taught computers or such.
What level do you teach?
Currently at a community college. I used to teach at a university, but I like this much better. I get to spend so much more time in the classroom.
Computers are just a hobby.
@Daniel Oh, right I remember from the podcast.
(see about box)
6:11 AM
@Daniel Just a hobby, eh?
@Daniel Doh!
One I've had since the early 1980's, but yes.
@Daniel A Mac?
I first learned to program on an Apple //+.
My family bought a ][GS when I was in middle school.
We got a PC with Windows 3.1 when I was in high school.
6:12 AM
Yeah, I started with Mac OS 9.
So I don't have the experience that many of you guys do.
After a Windows ME machine crashed and corrupted a chapter of my dissertation, I bought a Mac to finish writing it.
Come to think of it, Nathan and I are the only ones that don't have that experience.
In the chat room, I mean.
@daviesgeek Well you haven't exactly had as many years to practice... I'd say you're doing fine.
@Daniel Man.....
@Daniel Yeah, it's been fun being a part of the community.
Learning new things...
Especially about iOS.
That was back in 2003. I was in the Apple ecosystem from the age of 8 to about 16, then spent ten years on DOS/Windows, then switched back.
6:15 AM
I have never used anything but Macs for my main computer.
iOS is kind of out of my league.
I don't even have a cell phone.
However, I am pretty comfortable with Windows 98 & XP and Ubuntu.
Win 98 rocked.
I don't care much for what came before or after it, but I loved Windows 98.
Out of all the Win OSes, I'd say 98 and XP are the best.
I have used 98 the most and know it pretty well.
Me too
6:16 AM
@Daniel This will probably shock you, but neither do I.
Doesn't particularly shock me. They're insanely expensive.
I can't say it wouldn't be convenient sometimes, but the monthly bill isn't something I can justify.
It shocks everyone I tell, b/c all my of those in my peer group have cell phones.
Oh. Well, that could be awkward.
However, I am homeschooled and I don't drive.
So I have no need for a cell phone.
I see.
When I'm commuting, it would be nice. Of course you're not supposed to use it on the road anyway...
6:18 AM
I don't really particularly care to have one either.
@Daniel yeah.
If they grew on trees, I'd enjoy one.
We have one cell phone to split between my whole family.
@Daniel Definitely.
Hey, I gotta write my paper, so I will TTYL. What time is it over there anyway?
1:20. I should get some sleep; got to get up in five hours.
Good luck with your paper. What's it about?
@Daniel Ouch! I couldn't live on that.
@Daniel Mozart.
Cool. He could write.
6:20 AM
It's a 500 word essay on Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and his life.
I'm a bigger Bach fan, but Mozart knew what he was doing.
Don't believe everything you see in the movies.
Do you listen to much classical music?
Just church music, for the most part.
Mozart's Requiem is amazing
6:22 AM
Church music as in...stuff you hear at church? Or what?
Hear. Sing. My former choir sang a great repertoire, including some wonderful Bach, Mozart, etc.
Not so much these days. But I'm sure I will again.
So does that mean you are a Christian?
One could say that.
I see.
I am too.
:3413277 What kind of preacher?
Good luck with that Mozart paper.
6:26 AM
Thanks. (Reading your blog)
Sorry to distract you.
Will get back to you about your blog.
I will read it later and let you know about it.
3 hours later…
9:10 AM
Do you go nuts because of the horrible graphics performance in OS X Lion?
Q: Can I force GPU rendering on my MBP when connected to a power source?

gentmattOS X Lion is quite demanding for old Macs. Even though I own a 15'' MBP early 2011 with the 'powerful' Intel HD 3000 for integrated graphics, some animations just don't feel right (low fps). This is especially very noticeable with Mission Control: It's choppy. When ever discrete graphics are be...

5 hours later…
2:18 PM
@daviesgeek Thanks for the vote. It was hard for me as I wanted more people to support than votes I had to cast.
@gentmatt I have one of the last MBP that requires me to choose a graphics card and log out to effect the change. It turns out in hindsight to be a nice feature to have this control - as cool as the auto switching is - it feels really nice to always know where I'm at.
Thanks for asking that question - hopefully it gets voted up highly to become a need to know tip for people looking for help with the newer hardware.
I'm still disappointed with lion. You know - I bought a new MBP because I thought I'd perform better in Lion!?!?!?
@bmike me too! The candidates I voted for were not all winners, although I'm quite happy about the candidate who got elected despite not getting my vote.
I feel like I wasted all my money....
That's not a good feeling.
I've been happy with Lion on my MBA (mid 2011)
But honestly, I think I like Leopard better.
(I'm also quite partial to Panther)
Q: Program licences, deleted by startup program - Products on trial forever

OlmarThis have to do with apple having a built in program that you can activate during startup. I came to knowledge of this program when contacting my support. Since I am curious of nature of course, I wanted to know what the program was and what it did. This is were the not so funny things begin. If...

Yeah, I mean: I got one of the newest MBP. Extremly powerful. Quadcore, crucial RAM and SSD. But the choppy scrolling and animations just s***.
2:24 PM
So is this a content post that ended up on meta, or just confused?
@gentmatt Ouch - that's not so fun. What macs do you use on a daily basis?
I just to have a MBP 3,1. Now it's a MBP 8,2.
I don't use any other mac besides that.
I read that this could be a driver issue with the Intel HD 3000.
@gentmatt To be honest, I've always felt that way to some extent with the last three major releases.
2:25 PM
What's wrong with this picture?
Q: Use showroom model of an iPhone 4S

MichielA friend of mine bought an iPhone 4S. It was a showroom model and it came with his limitations. You can't delete or move around apps. What does he need to do to get rid of this demo-modus. Or is it irreversible?

(Always forget I can edit)
And good morning all.
Good morning
"Live from the customer lounge at Luther Acura"
@bmike Ok. I hope this will get better soon! It seems to me like the developers have to much work to do on both iOS and Lion.
The quality suffers. :(
Mid-2007 MBP and no major complaints about Lion. And nothing performance related.
2:28 PM
10.4 was such a speedy demon for me. Going to 10.5 felt slow until 10.5.3 or 4 (I don't recall when they had worked out the kinks). Then 10.6 was laggy and glitchy for at least the first three releases. 10.7.3 is the first release that I would put at par with 10.6.8 in terms of polish.
@jaberg That's because you do not have momentum scrolling. I also have MBP 3,1
I love to boot to an older OS - even this far into the Lion side of things and just remember what things used to feel like. Yes - it was snappier in some ways, but almost always I'm impressed by how the changes made in the new OS are materially faster in productivity despite those niggling changes where it's slower or glitchy.
@gentmatt I could easily see a team that's 100% focused on new features for 10.x.0 - cutting any that need final tweaks.
Also running Lion on MB Air, iMac, etc. Haven't noticed significant slowdown, but experiences will vary.
10.x.1 releasing those late coming features and fixing the big bugs - no optimizing at all.
10.x.2 making it really solid - still no general optimizing - lots of patches and bug fixes and some low hanging optimizing.
10.x.3 - finally time to polish things and really optimize.
In this case - Lion has a lot going on under the hood - so this is less true with sandboxing on the horizon, huge injection new features - Lion really added some major things under the hood. Local time machine - new storage layer for file vault. Do you use either of those perhaps?
@bmike True. I'll have to see how my productivity changes without Exposé :/
@bmike Both.
The thing with Mission control is - it's the graphical overkill of the 'application switcher'. It's feels a bit like the Vista Aero effect.
2:35 PM
@gentmatt Well - anytime I see major increase in the function of the software, I just assume the engineers have seen what hardware is coming in the pike and get my older mac on the used market sooner rather than later.
That's the thing - apple isn't shy of "skating to where the puck will be" and the graphics capabilities of everything iOS, Mac is jumping a lot at the moment.
@bmike #RetinaOnMacs
It took me a little time to get used to Mission Control but I now miss it when I return to a "Snow" machine.
I wonder if they will do that. If animations are choppy now, how will they be at a 4x higher res.
@bmike I've never bought a new Mac. (First) Macbook: Refurbished. (Second) MBP 3,1. Ebay (Third) MBP 8,2 Ebay.
My MBP is early 2011, but it came shipped with Lion already. I do have the Lion keyboard.
@jaberg How do you like the Application Exposé?
It's fine. But I do most of my navigation with QuickSilver. I'm probably not the best judge because I find that I adapt to the tool readily and don't spend a lot of time doing "hypercritical" level thinking.
And I spend more time in applications than I do "in the Finder" per say.
@jaberg Then you'd enjoy the full screen mode, right?
2:41 PM
(And I find that as geeks go, I have a higher tolerance for sub-optimal than most)
I also use QS, in fact I just switched back from Alfred yesterday.
I use full screen mode for iCal, Mail and Aperture. (Switching mail to a desktop if I'm going to drag in a bunch of files or something)
I use desktop mode for ByWord, Safari, etc. Again--it's quick to switch to the alternative mode if a given situation calls for it.
This might all change once I get a 27" iMac too. Right now my workflow is keyed to small screens.
@gentmatt All right - let the LaunchBar / QS / Alfred quibbles begin!
Quibble away. I'm sticking with QS.
Oh - and - boom - this just happened...
2:44 PM
I use fullscreen mode for apps that always run in the background: Mail, iTunes, Twitter.
Ah, yes--iTunes too.
But I just can't get used to fullscreen safari. I don't really know why :)
@bmike 👊
Yay, emicons work in chat!
I can use it in full screen if I'm reading RSS or doing "single task" things. But in research mode I'm too haphazard. Sometimes I use tabs, sometimes new windows (Service to collect all tabs in top window and paste the URLs into Markdown document)
@gentmatt BTW, I do have momentum scrolling at my desk--I use a Magic Trackpad.
2:48 PM
I really wish that 10.8 will have notification center! Activate by 3-finger dragging from the very top of the touchpad. Then see you mail, ichat, calendar, music and widgets at the same time.
I could get behind that feature. An improved version of Dashboard.
With fullscreen mode I'm not making use of my 15'' screen. The continuous swiping makes my head go crazy.
@bmike me too
@jaberg Apple also needs to add the Widgets to the appstore for downloading.
I'm no longer a widgets fan, but I agree.
2:51 PM
@jaberg And how's the performance of the scrolling?
@gentmatt, as I said, I haven't had any issue with it. If it's a problem, its not one that's risen to the level of my taking notice.
That's very interesting. I'd really like to see that now! :)
@gentmatt 👊 right back at ya!
Car is ready. Back at you guys later.
3:10 PM
I see a few more diamonds in the Users list :)
diamonds in the rough
Quick question, is the mobile site working on iOS (latest) for you guys?
The drop downs fail, and it complains at the bottom about requiring javascript from another domain
Also, chat rooms won't open, but the list of available chat rooms is enourmous, with ones that are nearly 300 days old still listed
everything seems to work for mew
3:19 PM
the list of old rooms is normal
but in your first screenshot, it indicates that it's had a problem loading its JS
The list of roms doesn;t show in desktop safari
not that big anyway
(wait, maybe it does if you select show frozen rooms)
(yup, that's it)
yeah, don't know why the chat shows all rooms by default
@KyleCronin Yeah, it used to work, I get that always now, and the top right drop down refuses to do anything
that's JS-based
Curious. Can't think of any javascript blocking settings
3:23 PM
@stuffe checking - stand by
@stuffe You went into the settings app for Safari and toggled the JS to off - refreshed, then toggled back on and refreshed the page, no?
have now.
No beans
Chat from my iPhone is working - so it doesn't appear to be site wide...
@stuffe wah, wahhhh sad trombone for you
Will try again but kill safari
@stuffe very rough
No beans. Turning JS off removes the message. Turning it back on brings it back, even if I totally kill Safari betwwen changes. Either way, no java for stuffe :(
hey @Daniel, I just had a hunt around tags and tag badges as per your meta question.
No, wait...
3:29 PM
@stuffe Um, can you remind me what meta question?
that was Jasons question - scratch that!
I'm afraid I don't remember it.
Then I'm not crazy.
You mods, you all look the same to me ;)
Or I am, but that isn't a sign of it.
Tag cleanup. Thoughts? How do you go about it?
Presume you have a tag that is considered no good. Let's imagine one of the typo ones, IOS5 instead os IOS-5.
You want to clean those suckers up. Removing tha tag will likely de-tag the question
or will it? Will it leave the tag shown, but now allow you to use it on new posts?
Assume it removes all instances of the tags. You are now left with questions that may not be tagged at all.
So in order to do it properly, you list all questions with the tag in one window, remove the tag in another, then go down that list opening each one individually in another window and readding a more appropriate tag?
3:47 PM
@bmike Interesting. My experience with 10.4 was that it was unusably slow compared to 10.3, but 10.5 was a breath of fresh air. Spotlight was unusable on 10.4, but it flew on 10.5. I actually downgraded back to Panther after trying Tiger, then skipped up to Leopard (which I still have running).
@Daniel Wow - even the last few builds of Tiger? Perhaps my hardware was different. G4 towers were so awesome at that time.
I don't remember what builds I tried and when I gave up and went back to Panther.
@stuffe Let's talk specifics - what tags look bad at the moment?
I just know that Spotlight suddenly became usable when I installed Leopard.
@bmike Any relating to iOS or Mac OS X
4:01 PM
@stuffe Meant to thank you for referencing the ODB protocol support in Byword the other day. Bought QuickCursor and changed my life. :)
Far too much choice, some synonym, some don't, some keep to major versions, others don't, some are identical but missing a hyphen etc
@jaberg, you're welcome, although I think that someone else may have done that rather than me ;) I did join in the byword talk, but don't recall anyone mentionging ODB, certainly not me?
I'm pretty sure it was you, but whatever. Thanks to whomever it was.
Loving the ability to clean up/ edit my bigger posts using Byword.
Describe what the ODB thing does, and I'll let you know ;)
Oh, hang on.
You mean switching from any text input window into byword, taking the contents with you, allowing you to edit them and then returning to the original input window with your edits?
Yes--that's enabled by ODB
(As opposed the OBD II computer in my cars)
And yes, that's what I mean.
Oh, right, that was me ;)
But I'm not familiar with the ODB terminilogy
4:06 PM
I knew that. ;) And thanks again.
I see it and think ODBC, then my brain reboots.
Well I was completely unaware of it until you referenced it.
Actually I referenced it completly subliminally
As in I did know about it, although I forgot that it needed the quick cursor software to work
You referenced the capability, I (re)read the Byword docs, I don't care about the protocol at all, it's the capability that rocks.
(or rather I knew about quick cursor, and forgot that it was what did it and byword merely supports it)
I have an app that has a similar function to quick cursor (clearly it opnly works in that one app and isn;t system wide) which will punt the current window into a selection of text editors) which is what I was actually referencing, incorrectly as I got the 2 mixed up, if that makes sense.
But who cares, you found it - it is rather spiffy
4:10 PM
Spiffy indeed.
I don't actually have quick cursor myself
@stuffe OK - lemme pull up the OS X tags and look
It seemed the most direct way to get the functionality, and I don't mind kicking a couple of bucks to Justin @ Hogs Bay
Things look nice on the OSx side (well as nice as can be)
@bmike That's another thing, you try to list all OSX tags, it's a nightmare using the existing tools.
4:13 PM
leopard, snow-leopard, lion all exist with synonyms for the various number equivalents.
Yes - it's hard to curate things with the selection tools.
If you need to see the full structure of the tags, including synonym and master tags, you need to search on multiple items at one, version numbers (10.7), colloquials (Lion), Generics (MACOS) etc
a selection box ticker next to each tag allowing you to build a larger list (or better, a method of implementing more than sungle word search in the filter) would give tag checkers a lot better understanding without missing stuff
@stuffe Indeed - I think the main thing that users can help with is to keep shifting the tags to be as generic as possible. When I see a Lion tag - I ask myself is there any reason why this question isn't tagged OSX instead of Lion - is it something narrowly Lion specific?
doing that work question by question makes it easier to maintain the tags systematically
I think a reduced selection and a tighter policy on new ones will help a lot.
Also, we should have a preference when editing. Is Lion prefered to OSX-10.7?
Also, my monitor is blinking, and it's driving me up a wall...
Happy ♦ day :)
4:22 PM
@JasonSalaz wat, woots! wat!
@stuffe Can you see which is the synonym and which is the actual tag?
@bmike This all came about from this meta post
Q: How are tag badges chosen?

Jason SalazOur list of tag badges is pathetically small in my opinion, and in dire need of changes, the most obvious of which is iphone -> ios, yet I feel that any iOS answer (iPhone, iPod, iPod-touch and related, iPad) should count towards iOS. The inability to make a tag synonym that is iPhone, iPad, iPod...

I don't have any e-mail regarding the agreement.
4:24 PM
@bmike Yeah, but that requires you to click on each tag (and hope you don;t miss one)
this page is a better overview of the tag structure as a whole, rather than just one, but it's poor for understanding it fully.
When you look at Lion, you need to consider the following tags (all of these exist)
4:44 PM
@JasonSalaz Mine was slow to arrive. Message ID 4.4d63ea270f2a43712ae9@NY-WEB09
Subject starts: Apple - Stack Exchange - Congrats
@stuffe Indeed - i totally agree it's manual to navigate tags - the only thing I have found that helps is a large monitor with several windows open to the various views.
Talking about tags - what is better in this case of two very highly voted questions here:
Jason's is tagged more widely, Mine more narrowly.
Q: What tiny thing in iOS 5 makes you smile, or has caught you off guard?

Jason SalaziOS 5 is here! Geofencing, new Voices in Voice Command/Siri, and Notification Center for all! We all know how heartfelt iOS makes you seem (Cards), how much control it gives you for managing your network (Airport Utility), and how it will easily turn you into a stalker (Find Your Friends), but w...

Q: What tiny thing in Lion makes you smile or has caught you off guard?

bmikeI would like to call for a place to list some little things that surprise you about Lion. There are so many articles and lists of all the new features with information overload, I would rather focus this spot of the site on tiny delights with a note why it makes a difference to you. Please one t...

Would it be better for the site if mine is tagged more broadly OSX and Lion? I'd say probably. Is it more "pure" and according the the idea that a more narrow tag is better? I don't know and given we want the reputation of people that answer the Lion question to help earn them an OSX badge - probable needs an edit IMO
hard to say
My view on that is that it's Lion specific and that the Lion tag implys OSX
in my book lion should be the default tag
anyone using 10.7 should synonynm to lion as a master. But lion itself should synonym to OSX as a master.
@jaberg But the problem is the Lion tag alone means people don't get OSX reputation for answering it.
I don't know if synonyms can be nested like this
4:52 PM
Ah. Not looking at the "reputation" part. Sorry.
as such Jasons question should just be ios-5, which should synonym to ios master
Was thinking purely from an organizational standpoint.
@stuffe Well - not exactly. We want the Lion tag for questions where Lion is central to the question - different than previous versions - where it's a Lion specific issue. I think we can't change the system at this point (all of SE / SO) and need to curate the tags for the benefit of both people searching for questions as well as for awarding people for their specific experience.
So much to learn here.
So Lion is the best tag for yours
as ios-5 is the best for jasons.
The problem is that AD is at a massive disadvantage for tagging. We have multiple naming convensions for the same thing, and version numbers that change quickly, resulting in a whole panoply of tags.
4:54 PM
I'd take the "reputation hit" in the name of better, tighter search for answers, but I can't speak for all.
just read the tag wiki for Lion and Snow-Leopard - totally different in style.
It makes the inexperienced user (even the experienced one) have to think too hard about which to use
And of course, some things tagged "Lion" are probably equally applicable to Snow Leopard, and possibly Panther.
@stuffe Edit them please - harmonize them :-)
There's no indication when you select a tag whether it is a synonym or a master tag or just standalone
Also - have any of you played with tag sets? stackexchange.com/filters/popular
It would be very easy to make a tag set to collect the tags you care about into one folder. You can't apply them to the site in general AFAIK - but it's a start to ease the pain @stuffe is observing in using tags to collect similar questions.
4:57 PM
Urgh, I just found "osx-lion"
I'll play.
Reading through our tag list--really gets tough when you break iOS 4 up by dot release. I recognize there are differences, but shouldn't they be referenced in the body, not the tag?
So, to dig out an older question as I am not sure if it was answered, can you nest synonyms?

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